A tidbit from B*lchalk to the wc quoting R*venbark:
...illustration of a cart and a horse: just as the horse comes before the cart, giving comes before receiving and believing precedes receiving.
Ha! Yea -- well right. In the case of twi, the horse does come before the cart, and peruses the cart's contents, and determines if it is worth hauling away -- so that *believing (cough!) does equal receiving*.
especially -- if said cart has all the monies extort... errrr requir.... errrr demand.... errrr *God's Due* (payable to the ministry most closely affiliated with you)
It seems to me that what they are saying about Biblical research is not that they should come to the scriptures with a concordance, interlinear, and a knowledge of figures of speech, orientalisms, etc., but rather that they should come with a knowledge of what TWI has said any verse means, then line up all their "re-search" with that.
In other words, just look up the same verses as the Way mag article, but if you find any other verses on the subject, make sure you mold them into what TWI told you it should mean. If it doesn't fit with TWI (not with the easy verses, context, used before, etc.), then the error is in your understanding, or the verse was not in the original.
That blows any sort of true textual criticism right out of the water. TWI has no true "research" left.
And Mike is closer to what TWI is doing now than I thought.
Sadly as some of us may remember the prospect of re-searching anything done in their cornfields would thrill us, or certainly would have me. I could have been easily lured into thinking we were truly going to be a ministry of the people, not the leaders! at long last! Maybe Miss Southern Hospital-inducing was speaking straight words. Could it happen? -->
Maybe some will find continuance within that group possible because of this endeavor. My prayer would be that they see a few rays of freeing truth to light their exit out.
When time I will read some of the articles to see if there is anything of further interest.
But as mentioned above Jesus is really not a prime player in their establishment of faulty goods.
Those who attended have been enabled to build a deeper love and appreciation for the Word of God as we 're-search' what has been taught before in our precious ministry publications.
How about a deeper love for God - period? How about a deeper love for Jesus? How about a deeper love for our fellow man? How about a deeper understanding of how important family is?
Why re-search what has already been taught in the ministry publications? Why not do something novel, like really research the scriptures using real authoritative scholars' research?
Why not do something even more novel and start helping people and being good Samaritans? How about apologizing to people for the lives that you ruined?
Thanks, Houseisarockin! They appear to be moving closer and closer to Dead Sea status. All these articles look like the standard, give give give - obey obey obey US - bring more money to us, it's your job - you OWE it to the ministry that taught you the word. (You don't owe it to God, it's all about them)
Hate to be pedantic (okay, I don't hate to :o-->) but research does not mean "to search again". Especially not to re-search stale, error-ridden publications rather thna thinking for oneself.
Oaks, you're right. The quote about the person not reinventing the wheel...odd ring to that. Of course, anyone would want to make use of existing materials and resources. Hopefully that isn't a new idea to their grads or else they've really gone retro.
But it sounds like intellectual incest. Cross-breeding amongst mental brothers and sisters. No wonder they end up with ideas that have 7 fingers and 12 toes. Eve was a lesbian! What next?...
Judas was a trans-sexual! It fits with Rocco Banadorci's Way Magazine article titled 'Shellfish in the Word' from 2001 and you can see it all through the Staff Newsletter Bless Notes of 1998. It's amazing! Really!
Learning is more than endless repetition. That's for babies. Don't touch the stove. Don't touch the stove, it's hot. Don't touch the hot stove.
*OW!!!!! waaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!* Okay, from the top, don't touch the hot stove...
If you're 48 years old and still can't get it into your head to check the stove and that the stove is hot when the knob says "ON", that's enough, y'know? Put that person in the Special Crib, they need watching.
Oh sure, we all benefit from a regimen of healthy reminding, the revisiting of information. But are they being challenged? Truly? Reaaaaaaaally Rosalie, can we read the newspaper today? No? It'll break my brain? Okay, maybe tomorrrrrrrow.
I think the point of not reinventing the wheel is sound except if the base is error ridden then the wheel needs to be replaced. And socks, maybe that is too cynical on my part but I know some of my basic keys were a bit offline.
If the axle's bent, the wheel won't ride straight no matter how many times I change it, house. My point - the Way, IMO, doesn't really do research or even serious review of anything let alone it's own material.
They rearrange furniture, that'a about it.
I am being very cynical about things like Eve's lesbianship, a topic which amounts to much less than a hill of beans to someone with real life problems and needs. If they're not teaching and wasting people's time with that tripe, hear hear, kudos!
Are the basic keys you had offline keys that you think the Way have offline too? Similar, or different ones? How did you get them back in line? How do you think they're methods compare?
Not better/worse, just do you think there's been any improvement or correction, that you know of?
One of the Way's techniques for learning was "the school of life". Take what you know and put it in to real application and see - not how the information holds up - but how you hold up.
That's pretty much what the Way does, in addition to public presentations, "teachings" where people sit and listen to someone else talk. You learn it the stuff and apply it. But when you apply it you don't ever end up looking critically to the material, only to your performance.
That mode of learning is used as a way to evaluate performance, not material.
That's okay, to some extent. You can learn in a siloed environment like that. You're not expected to "reinvent" the wheel. Rather the expectation is that you're testing yourself and your ability to apply creatively certain accepted standards, ideas, instructions, etc.
But when the term research is used it implies scrutiny, study, comparison, tests, yada yada.
Advanced Classes in the Way don't do that or didn't and this one sounds like it's par for the course. Their research is the definition Oaks referred to - it's review, of the most cursory kind.
If the axle's bent, the wheel won't ride straight no matter how many times I change it, house. My point - the Way, IMO, doesn't really do research or even serious review of anything let alone it's own material.
They rearrange furniture, that's about it.
I understand and agree.
Are the basic keys you had offline keys that you think the Way have offline too? Similar, or different ones?
I've learned "in the context" means a great deal more than twi gave credit to. They introduced a means to take verses out of context to suit their needs. That may not be a big deal but it seems big to me.
How did you get them back in line?
I learned to allow common sense and logic to aid in my understanding what I read. I opened my heart to a bigger God than I'd ever allowed myself to see.
How do you think they're methods compare? Not better/worse, just do you think there's been any improvement or correction, that you know of?
I feel if they are that confident then they've more than likely not changed at all. Nicer words and sudo tolerance of non twi people don't impress me, even if I am looking in. From all I hear from those still in and what I see in their magazine they are not far removed from the group I left not that long ago.
One of the Way's techniques for learning was "the school of life". Take what you know and put it in to real application and see - not how the information holds up - but how you hold up.
That's okay, to some extent. You can learn in a siloed environment. You're not expected to "reinvent" the wheel. Rather the expectation is that you're testing yourself and your ability to apply creatively certain accepted standards, ideas, instructions, etc.
But when the term research is used it implies scrutiny, study, comparison, tests, yada yada.
Advanced Classes in the Way don't do that or didn't and this one sounds like it's par for the course. Their research is the definition Oaks referred to - it's review, of the most cursory kind.
But they have given them false hope of growth in this challenge of "re-search". Because some will see that as twi being so confident of their stand they could endure someone actually finding error in their work. That is what will give some a reason to hang on a little while longer; it would have me at one time.
Maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.. They don't even have to do a REWRITE. Wouldn't even need to "solicit" any more "blessing" letters. Just shuffle everything around, change the names, and oila! "New" magazine. They could do it with a quarter of the "staff". Still would sell it. The innies wouldn't dare quesion it- "I thought we worked that for three months in a row".
Sure, they pay a pittance now, but they could do the very same thing for a quarter of a pittance.
Heck, it works for classes and the "new purvailing series" books.
Mr. H, I thought they were already doing that! You mean those ARE new articles???? --> --> I know they have been recycling the photos and backgrounds for years.
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igotout
ZZZZZZ, Snore, ZZZZZZ, Snore, Yawn!!
Jesus is left out of TWI's mind set again. THEIR word seems to have taken his place.
If Jesus were here I think he would fall asleep too with all their jargon. Actually he would have been kicked out long ago.
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Jim
I feel set free...
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ex10
igotout
My thoughts perxactly. No Jesus, no saviour, no christianity.
Oh, he was mentioned once. How righteous.
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dmiller
Ha! Yea -- well right. In the case of twi, the horse does come before the cart, and peruses the cart's contents, and determines if it is worth hauling away -- so that *believing (cough!) does equal receiving*.
especially -- if said cart has all the monies extort... errrr requir.... errrr demand.... errrr *God's Due* (payable to the ministry most closely affiliated with you)
Nuff said.
-->
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WordWolf
So,
does giving precede believing, and believing precede receiving,
or does believing precede giving, and giving precede receiving?
I think it's the latter.
People believe twi's promises, give money,
and twi receives the money.
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shazdancer
It seems to me that what they are saying about Biblical research is not that they should come to the scriptures with a concordance, interlinear, and a knowledge of figures of speech, orientalisms, etc., but rather that they should come with a knowledge of what TWI has said any verse means, then line up all their "re-search" with that.
In other words, just look up the same verses as the Way mag article, but if you find any other verses on the subject, make sure you mold them into what TWI told you it should mean. If it doesn't fit with TWI (not with the easy verses, context, used before, etc.), then the error is in your understanding, or the verse was not in the original.
That blows any sort of true textual criticism right out of the water. TWI has no true "research" left.
And Mike is closer to what TWI is doing now than I thought.
Shaz
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houseisarockin
Sadly as some of us may remember the prospect of re-searching anything done in their cornfields would thrill us, or certainly would have me. I could have been easily lured into thinking we were truly going to be a ministry of the people, not the leaders! at long last! Maybe Miss Southern Hospital-inducing was speaking straight words. Could it happen?
-->
Maybe some will find continuance within that group possible because of this endeavor. My prayer would be that they see a few rays of freeing truth to light their exit out.
When time I will read some of the articles to see if there is anything of further interest.
But as mentioned above Jesus is really not a prime player in their establishment of faulty goods.
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Belle
How about a deeper love for God - period? How about a deeper love for Jesus? How about a deeper love for our fellow man? How about a deeper understanding of how important family is?
Why re-search what has already been taught in the ministry publications? Why not do something novel, like really research the scriptures using real authoritative scholars' research?
Why not do something even more novel and start helping people and being good Samaritans? How about apologizing to people for the lives that you ruined?
Thanks, Houseisarockin! They appear to be moving closer and closer to Dead Sea status. All these articles look like the standard, give give give - obey obey obey US - bring more money to us, it's your job - you OWE it to the ministry that taught you the word. (You don't owe it to God, it's all about them)
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DaddyHoundog
"precious ministry publications"
oh gag me......
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Watered Garden
Precious as in costly? Costing too much money, too much wasted time?
Hunh!
WG
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Oakspear
Hate to be pedantic (okay, I don't hate to
:o-->) but research does not mean "to search again". Especially not to re-search stale, error-ridden publications rather thna thinking for oneself.
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socks
"learning is a repetitive venture".
Diggin' the new smilies!
Oaks, you're right. The quote about the person not reinventing the wheel...odd ring to that. Of course, anyone would want to make use of existing materials and resources. Hopefully that isn't a new idea to their grads or else they've really gone retro.
But it sounds like intellectual incest. Cross-breeding amongst mental brothers and sisters. No wonder they end up with ideas that have 7 fingers and 12 toes. Eve was a lesbian! What next?...
Judas was a trans-sexual! It fits with Rocco Banadorci's Way Magazine article titled 'Shellfish in the Word' from 2001 and you can see it all through the Staff Newsletter Bless Notes of 1998. It's amazing! Really!
Learning is more than endless repetition. That's for babies. Don't touch the stove. Don't touch the stove, it's hot. Don't touch the hot stove.
*OW!!!!! waaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!* Okay, from the top, don't touch the hot stove...
If you're 48 years old and still can't get it into your head to check the stove and that the stove is hot when the knob says "ON", that's enough, y'know? Put that person in the Special Crib, they need watching.
Oh sure, we all benefit from a regimen of healthy reminding, the revisiting of information. But are they being challenged? Truly? Reaaaaaaaally Rosalie, can we read the newspaper today? No? It'll break my brain? Okay, maybe tomorrrrrrrow.
But such is The Way of The Wayfers.
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houseisarockin
I think the point of not reinventing the wheel is sound except if the base is error ridden then the wheel needs to be replaced. And socks, maybe that is too cynical on my part but I know some of my basic keys were a bit offline.
You make me think though. Thanks!
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socks
If the axle's bent, the wheel won't ride straight no matter how many times I change it, house. My point - the Way, IMO, doesn't really do research or even serious review of anything let alone it's own material.
They rearrange furniture, that'a about it.
I am being very cynical about things like Eve's lesbianship, a topic which amounts to much less than a hill of beans to someone with real life problems and needs. If they're not teaching and wasting people's time with that tripe, hear hear, kudos!
Are the basic keys you had offline keys that you think the Way have offline too? Similar, or different ones? How did you get them back in line? How do you think they're methods compare?
Not better/worse, just do you think there's been any improvement or correction, that you know of?
One of the Way's techniques for learning was "the school of life". Take what you know and put it in to real application and see - not how the information holds up - but how you hold up.
That's pretty much what the Way does, in addition to public presentations, "teachings" where people sit and listen to someone else talk. You learn it the stuff and apply it. But when you apply it you don't ever end up looking critically to the material, only to your performance.
That mode of learning is used as a way to evaluate performance, not material.
That's okay, to some extent. You can learn in a siloed environment like that. You're not expected to "reinvent" the wheel. Rather the expectation is that you're testing yourself and your ability to apply creatively certain accepted standards, ideas, instructions, etc.
But when the term research is used it implies scrutiny, study, comparison, tests, yada yada.
Advanced Classes in the Way don't do that or didn't and this one sounds like it's par for the course. Their research is the definition Oaks referred to - it's review, of the most cursory kind.
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houseisarockin
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Ham
Makes me wonder why they even BOTHER publishing the thing. Same bland stuff, same old worn out trough for "God's people" (God have mercy on em"
to weed through to try to get SOME nourishment.
They could save a lot of costs- just "recycle" old way rags. Same stuff anyway- nobody would know the difference.
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Ham
Cripe- at least I got a LITTLE out of PFAL. You'd have to really work this one over to find much..
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Ham
Yeah, double post. I killed it..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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Oakspear
March/April 2005 magazine tidbits
Articles:
The Benefits of M*ekness.....by V*nce M*F*dden
We equate meekness with doing what we damn well tell you to do, and believe me, that benefits us!
We Have A*cess!.....by B*ll G*een
...to your financial records so that we KNOW if your giving 10%+
Reconciled to R*concile!.....by J*e N*viello
Can we find bible verses to back up our stupid analogies? Yes we can!
Encouraged to F*int Not.....by D*ttie M*ynihan
Pay no attention to that reality behind the curtain...look at us!
The Promised Land of the P*evailing Word: Building Biblical Understanding
Service Highlights for Dec and Jan
Isn't "Highlights" an overly optimistic description?
M*nners and Customs (on farmer)
Manners and Customs of non-European cultures that may or may not have anything to do with the bible
W*y C*rps Building Biblical Understanding
Oh horsecarp!
W*y D*sciples Building The Body Together
Letters on A*vanced Class 2004
Brown-nosing: featuring excessive adjectives
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houseisarockin
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Steve!
I would think the answer to that would be obvious.
They can charge people for the way ragazine.
The writers write the articles for free. They pay the staff a pittance. It costs them next to nothing to produce that birdcage liner.
The question really should be: how do *I* get a scam going like that? That's a nice piece of change for very little effort!
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Ham
Maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.. They don't even have to do a REWRITE. Wouldn't even need to "solicit" any more "blessing" letters. Just shuffle everything around, change the names, and oila! "New" magazine. They could do it with a quarter of the "staff". Still would sell it. The innies wouldn't dare quesion it- "I thought we worked that for three months in a row".
Sure, they pay a pittance now, but they could do the very same thing for a quarter of a pittance.
Heck, it works for classes and the "new purvailing series" books.
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Belle
Mr. H, I thought they were already doing that! You mean those ARE new articles????
--> 
--> I know they have been recycling the photos and backgrounds for years.
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smurfette
help me......my eyes are getting glazed over......boredom setting in........
-->
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