Did anyone see Greta Van Susteren's show last night? They showed a picture of a normal brain vs Terri's brain. 80 percent of Terri's brain is gone. 80 percent! It was replaced with water, hence the term "water on the brain."
The neurologist said she was functioning off the brain stem. Which controls breathing, allows her to sleep and wake up, and produce facial expressions.
After seeing that I can't help but wondering if these people trying to help her live, aren't sentencing this woman to a living hell, like she must have been in the last 15 years.
Rottiegirl, I saw all that. Pretty convincing evidence, if you ask me.
All this accusatory rhetoric from the Roman Catholic church and their adherents, calling this murder and calling us executioners and all, is yet another reason why I rejoice leaving them a long long time ago. They were false accusers then, and they're false accusers now. They control me no more.
Oh, yeah and giving glucose to someone in acute hypoglycemia would be in the same classification as giving CPR to someone in cardiac arrest. You don't page the doctor, wait around for 1/2 hour or so for an answer, to get permission to do either.
WG
Do you do it (five times, no less) without making any records? Do you suspect or accuse someone of trying to poison a patient with insulin without making any records, filing any complaints, etc.?
Long Gone, I am an insulin dependent diabetic. I have been for 10 years. I have a teeny tad bit of knowledge of acute hypoglycemia, how Regular and Humalog insulins work and so on. and the answer to your question is YES, DAMMIT! One hundred times if need be. A bedridden person who is diabetic is very brittle.
WG, the emphasis of the question was not the doing, but the recording. If you think that it is credible for the events that woman reports to have happened repeatedly without there being a single record anywhere of them, that's fine. It's not credible to me, or to any court.
I saw that yesterday and I have been praying for her before and after seeing what he wrote. I think it is significant that so many people don't see anything wrong with someone subjected to inhumane treatment in this day and age.
In someways, we are witnessing the backlash of medical advancement--we can keep her alive indefinitely, but we don't have good answers for what to do with someone in her semi-conscious state. I agree with Pres. Bush--let us err on the side of life. No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one!
As BOWtwi said, who is the only eyewitness on this board, Terri did feel pain every month during her periods because she groaned and everyone knew why.
This is a very hard case--to say whether she should live shouldn't be up to someone who, for all intents and purposes, has another wife/family and will benefit by her death, IMHO.
She is dying of thirst as well as hunger. Gee, what a way to go and in America, no less (my dog already ate twice this morning just because I couldn't remember if I'd fed her or not).
mj, I do have a will which includes a living will. I am now questioning my husband carefully about what he would do if I were in such a state. I do know, it is not my wish to be starved to death.
Terri Schiavo is not in a coma where there might be a chance that she could come out of it someday. Her cerebral cortex has atrophied, or shriveled up, and that space has been filled with spinal fluid. That's the part of the brain that controls thinking and that can't be reversed. She's not going to "wake up" from this.
This Dr. Cheshire of the Mayo Clinic of Jacksonville based his opinion on a 90-minute visit with Terri this week and based on that is contradicting teams of neurologists who conducted extensive examinations of her. He admitted that there was no evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or voluntary behavior, yet he said he observed "the distinct sense of the presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of some things around her." I'm no doctor, but a "sense" would not seem to be enough.
Where is this information coming from that doctors supporting Terri Schiavo's parents side haven't been allowed to testify? Web logs? In every hearing I've read about in an actual news report, there has been testimony from doctors on both sides. The first hearing that resulted in the order to have the feeding tube removed had testimony from two doctors chosen by Michael Schiavo, two chosen by Terri's parents and one chosen by the court. The testimony that has been backed up by clinical evidence, and not feelings and theories, is that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state.
One of the doctors who has testified on behalf of Terri's parents is a Dr. William Hammesfahr, who concluded that "Terri is definitely aware of her mother." Hammesfahr is a very controversial figure in Florida, considered by many neurologists to be a quack. He has been accused of offering treatments that have no basis in medical fact in order to exploit desperate patients for financial gain. True or not, he doesn't seem to be the best choice of someone to have on your side.
I've read what a monster Michael Schiavo is, but didn't he go to nursing school ten or twelve years ago to try to learn how to take care of his wife? Is that all part of his elaborate plan to get his hands on that money, most of which has been used up in caring for Terri according to most reports.
The real tragedy is that there are only two people who know what Terri Schiavo really wanted and one of them can't tell us.
No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one!
No, as someone pointed out earlier, you can euthanize a dog and put it out of its misery. I'm not saying we should be able to do that to people, but you can't compare the treatment of humans with the treatment of dogs. With dogs we have the option of letting them go peacefully.
No one is murdering Terri Shiavo. She was not born with a feeding tube growing out of her stomach. I hate to be so blunt, but the real crime took place, IMO, when she was put on an artificial means of nutrition.
And for those pointing their fingers at her husband...he spent years trying to get the best rehab care for her, but the time came when it became evident that nothing was working. I don't know how you dare to presume what's going on in his head and heart. Do you know that he became a certified respiratory therapist and went to nursing school so he could take better care of Terri and oversee her care?
I know Michael Shiavo wasn't popular with the nursing home. His own brother said he was very demanding regarding Terri's care there and that it didn't win him many friends. No surprise there. That doesn't go over very big with nursing home staff.
All I can say is I thank God I'm not related to any "helpful" people who would keep me alive, whether in a vegetative or decreased consciousness state, against my wishes.
Perhaps when Bowtwi was in contact with Ms. Shiavo, she still retained enough brain function at that time to feel pain. That was a while ago, if I read and I'm remembering correctly. Her brain has now turned to fluid, 80% of it! And as a result of that, doctors say she can't feel pain now. It's not guesswork. Doctors know what parts of the brain control pain and all the other functions of the body.
I pray Terri feels no pain and discomfort. If she does, it should be obvious, and the doctors can give her medications to ease her discomfort. To me the greatest discomfort would be to be confined to a bed for 15 years, unable to think or get up and walk or communicate with anyone.
"In someways, we are witnessing the backlash of medical advancement--we can keep her alive indefinitely, but we don't have good answers for what to do with someone in her semi-conscious state. I agree with Pres. Bush--let us err on the side of life. No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one! "
You are correct. We would inject them with a medication which would end their lives in a relatively painless and humane way. We would not take extraordinary measures to keep them alive or feed them through a tube.
"... No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one! "
Hmm, actually they would.
While living in Italia, we saw that they allow many many dogs to roam the streets wild. Only if they begin biting people do the authorities take action. In the mean time, they beg and dig through the trash.
When a dog gets sick, it lays there and Italians walk around it. If it is injured, and crawls into a hole or corner, they ignore it. I have seen dogs walking with heads dropping, open sores on their sides, ribs showing, they need to lay down and rest after walking just a few yards, near death from starvation. Italians will then at that point give them water or wine, but no food or medical care.
I gave one dying dog my sandwich, lead it out behind a vineyard, dug a hole, killed it and buried it; all while being careful not to get any of it's puss or worms on me. The LNs that I worked with were apalled/upset with me. Saying what a horrible thing I had done. How could I be so mean. It upset them such that 4 LNs walked off the job for the remainder of their shift. They had to go to mass to confess and get the shared-guilt of working with me, off their minds, before they could return to work. They were terribly offended that I would show kindness to a starving dog, and they were also terribly offended that I would end it's life [for the purpose of ending it's pain].
:-)
Italians are like that. Greeks not so much, some, but at least with the Italians they generally would never serve the dog as food afterwards. :-)
This thing really bothers me. When I was in court recently over this girl that was threatening my sons life and had talked my son's friend into hanging herself they had a guardian ad litem come in and talk to all the children and parents and had to give a report to the court. When we went to court the report was given to us right when court started so we were unable to read the facts during the court session, so were unable to dispute anything that was said.
In the report it said things that we had said but it was so miscontrued. And it had the guardian ad litems thoughts. She had already gone in with a prejudiced mind about what should happen and wrote her report in that way.
Although we did get what we wanted (thank goodness), it made us look like we were trying to go after this poor innocent girl that had problems. What a crock.
Also, with the girl that tried to hang herself....The doctors told us there was no hope of her living. That she did not know what was going on. There was no way for her live a normal life. That her responses were reflexes and only reflexes.
She also had a feeding tube. They wanted the mother to stop everything because of no chance of living a normal life.
When the doctors would come in and examine her they would come in for a minute look at her and leave. The mother would try and tell them that she was responding and they wouldn't listen to her because there was no way she could.
Thank goodness she proved them all wrong. I saw her in the store the other day with her sister. Although she is having problems speaking because she is in need of surgery of her vocal cords she was able to respond and was almost normal.
Feeding tubes are removed all the time. If this is inhumane then where has all the outrage been all along?
Why all the attention on this woman when this happens thousands of times in America every day?
And I absolutley agree with Linda. A feeding tube is a relatively new invention. God did not make us with feeding tubes coming out of our naval. I can't see how this is murder.
Her brain has atrophied throughout the years. What I saw last night was nothing more than an outline.
If this woman does have some state of consciousness like the "new" neurologist is claiming, then that would be the real state of a living hell.
BTW I've yet to hear anyone discuss the "Futile Care" law that George Bush passed (as governor) back in 1999. The bill Bush signed clearly states that hospitals have the right to let indigent vegetants die over the objections of the family.
Sun Hudson, an indigent black baby, died just a couple of weeks ago under this bill.
My problem with this is the manner in which she is dying. I perfectly understand letting people go. But on a human level, I have moral problems with the manner or this woman's death.
Misinformed people assumed she would be getting morphine for the pain, or maybe an injection. Working around health care lawyers, no doctor in his right mind will give her anything, lest they be tried as a criminal for murder - and you know someone would bring charges. Its a hot potato - no med malpractice charges for them.
What gets me, is that we humanely put our animals to sleep. A convicted death row inmate, if there's any tiny teensy bit of doubt or a question, or new evidence, has his case appealed, reviewed, appealed, reviewed for years. He is given the benefit of the doubt, new facts are investigated. A federal court was ordered to do the same thing for this woman, a de novo review of new facts and information, to put to rest any lingering doubts, and refused to do so, refused to at least look at new information that has come out, but will do so for a convicted murderer without having to be prompted. Yet an innocent american citizen is denied this basic right. If the convicted murderer is still found guilty he is put to sleep - the "humane" way by lethal injection.
Giving Schiavo a drink of water is now grounds for imprisonment. Taking her off of her "life support" and starving her to death is now considered humane. Well, all of us are on "life support" - take away any of our food and water and we die. Starving a person to death is not humane or kind - it is barbaric.
Under our laws, starving a human being to death is not murder - it is "natural," wiping her lips with water, or putting a wafer on her tongue for her last rites is now illegal.
The real humane thing would be to inject her, or shoot her even - but we cannot show the same mercy on her, a human being, as we do an animal or a heinous murderer.
Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?
I know, its the law, its the law. Well, we all know what law and legalism can do when taken to its extreme. Law, without mercy or compassion is bondage. We are on a slippery slope I fear now. This case is bigger I think than what we realize.
I 'm going to ask this once again because nobody has bothered to answer me yet.
Feeding tubes have been taken off as a means of life support many times many times. Feeding tubes are a relatively new invention and people have died humanly before they were invented.
I have not heard anybody call it inhumane before Terry Schaivo. So why now? Why now with this lady???
According to the medical experts. She is NOT going to die a painful death. That part of her brain is gone. 80 percent of Terri's brain is gone. Even if God grew her a new brain, it wouldn't be her anymore. Our brains are made up of our memories and experiences. Terry has lost all of that.
btw oldies I missed your above post, where you said you saw Greta too. That was incredibly convincing evidence. And the neurologist didn't have any agendas, he was just reporting what he knew.
And Amen about the tactics the Catholic church is pulling. Saying that she'll be floating around purgatory for an eternity, what nonsense.
My Mom is a staunch Roman Catholic and she's disgusted by what she hears these people saying. One guy was comparing her to Jesus Christ for god's sakes! I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't make her a saint.
Or the man who supplies him with everything he needs so he can pull the trigger?
Or the man who over-sees transporting him to the scene of where he is going to pull the trigger?
Or the man who is the Commander-in-chief, whose orders were being followed when the underlings invaded foriegn soil, supplanted the local rulers and pulled the trigger?
Or the man who voted in Congress to authorize the policy that was being followed which allowed our armies to invade foreign soil and to kill the locals?
Or the man who voted these men into office so they could establish a World Empire?
Or the man who paid taxes to financialy support these clowns while they are empire building?
Or the man who refused to vote, but stayed a citizen of the nation, whose goal is empire building?
Off-topic? I think not.
When establishing guilt, assigning it to a person. Can we assign it to just one person? Unless you act completely alone when you do your deed, then the guilt goes to a group. If that group includes our medical profession, it also extends out to everyone who pays medical bills or insurance. If that guilty group is a citizen in a war killing men for their religous beliefs, that guilt goes to the entire nation, for launching a religous war. If the original group is 'The system'; of lawyers and politicains, doctors and HMOs, then that guilt rests equaly on you and on me.
IF he is so concerned about the "sanctity of life" as he says he is. What about the 150+ people that were put to death under him when he was governor of Texas?
I happen to believe in the death penalty, for certain circumstances btw, I am simply trying to point out the INCREDIBLE hypocrisy this whole circus reeks of.
Thank God this woman doesn't know whats going on.
It's just too bad these right wing nut jobs with their megaphones and chants aren't respecting the hospice they are in front of where people are DYING.
It's just too bad these right wing nut jobs with their megaphones and chants aren't respecting the hospice they are in front of where people are DYING.
Now there's a concern that seems mostly ignored. What effect are those nuts having on other people in the hospice and their families and friends? Do they care?
Now there's a concern that seems mostly ignored. What effect are those nuts having on other people in the hospice and their families and friends? Do they care?
I don’t really feel like chasing down the info again, excathedra, but compression fractures are consistent with her eating disorder and her having been extremely overweight some years before. Rib fractures are consistent with her having received CPR after her collapse. If there were really any hint that any aspect of her condition were due to abuse, that certainly would have come up as part of the case for the defense in the malpractice suit.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
17
12
21
13
Popular Days
Mar 24
63
Mar 25
45
Mar 29
19
Mar 30
19
Top Posters In This Topic
RottieGrrrl 17 posts
mj412 12 posts
LG 21 posts
waterbuffalo 13 posts
Popular Days
Mar 24 2005
63 posts
Mar 25 2005
45 posts
Mar 29 2005
19 posts
Mar 30 2005
19 posts
oldiesman
All this accusatory rhetoric from the Roman Catholic church and their adherents, calling this murder and calling us executioners and all, is yet another reason why I rejoice leaving them a long long time ago. They were false accusers then, and they're false accusers now. They control me no more.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
Long Gone, I am an insulin dependent diabetic. I have been for 10 years. I have a teeny tad bit of knowledge of acute hypoglycemia, how Regular and Humalog insulins work and so on. and the answer to your question is YES, DAMMIT! One hundred times if need be. A bedridden person who is diabetic is very brittle.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
From a legal standpoint - if it isn't written in the chart, it never happened.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
WG, the emphasis of the question was not the doing, but the recording. If you think that it is credible for the events that woman reports to have happened repeatedly without there being a single record anywhere of them, that's fine. It's not credible to me, or to any court.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Kit,
I saw that yesterday and I have been praying for her before and after seeing what he wrote. I think it is significant that so many people don't see anything wrong with someone subjected to inhumane treatment in this day and age.
In someways, we are witnessing the backlash of medical advancement--we can keep her alive indefinitely, but we don't have good answers for what to do with someone in her semi-conscious state. I agree with Pres. Bush--let us err on the side of life. No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one!
As BOWtwi said, who is the only eyewitness on this board, Terri did feel pain every month during her periods because she groaned and everyone knew why.
This is a very hard case--to say whether she should live shouldn't be up to someone who, for all intents and purposes, has another wife/family and will benefit by her death, IMHO.
She is dying of thirst as well as hunger. Gee, what a way to go and in America, no less (my dog already ate twice this morning just because I couldn't remember if I'd fed her or not).
mj, I do have a will which includes a living will. I am now questioning my husband carefully about what he would do if I were in such a state. I do know, it is not my wish to be starved to death.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pirate1974
Terri Schiavo is not in a coma where there might be a chance that she could come out of it someday. Her cerebral cortex has atrophied, or shriveled up, and that space has been filled with spinal fluid. That's the part of the brain that controls thinking and that can't be reversed. She's not going to "wake up" from this.
This Dr. Cheshire of the Mayo Clinic of Jacksonville based his opinion on a 90-minute visit with Terri this week and based on that is contradicting teams of neurologists who conducted extensive examinations of her. He admitted that there was no evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or voluntary behavior, yet he said he observed "the distinct sense of the presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of some things around her." I'm no doctor, but a "sense" would not seem to be enough.
Where is this information coming from that doctors supporting Terri Schiavo's parents side haven't been allowed to testify? Web logs? In every hearing I've read about in an actual news report, there has been testimony from doctors on both sides. The first hearing that resulted in the order to have the feeding tube removed had testimony from two doctors chosen by Michael Schiavo, two chosen by Terri's parents and one chosen by the court. The testimony that has been backed up by clinical evidence, and not feelings and theories, is that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state.
One of the doctors who has testified on behalf of Terri's parents is a Dr. William Hammesfahr, who concluded that "Terri is definitely aware of her mother." Hammesfahr is a very controversial figure in Florida, considered by many neurologists to be a quack. He has been accused of offering treatments that have no basis in medical fact in order to exploit desperate patients for financial gain. True or not, he doesn't seem to be the best choice of someone to have on your side.
I've read what a monster Michael Schiavo is, but didn't he go to nursing school ten or twelve years ago to try to learn how to take care of his wife? Is that all part of his elaborate plan to get his hands on that money, most of which has been used up in caring for Terri according to most reports.
The real tragedy is that there are only two people who know what Terri Schiavo really wanted and one of them can't tell us.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
No, as someone pointed out earlier, you can euthanize a dog and put it out of its misery. I'm not saying we should be able to do that to people, but you can't compare the treatment of humans with the treatment of dogs. With dogs we have the option of letting them go peacefully.
No one is murdering Terri Shiavo. She was not born with a feeding tube growing out of her stomach. I hate to be so blunt, but the real crime took place, IMO, when she was put on an artificial means of nutrition.
And for those pointing their fingers at her husband...he spent years trying to get the best rehab care for her, but the time came when it became evident that nothing was working. I don't know how you dare to presume what's going on in his head and heart. Do you know that he became a certified respiratory therapist and went to nursing school so he could take better care of Terri and oversee her care?
I know Michael Shiavo wasn't popular with the nursing home. His own brother said he was very demanding regarding Terri's care there and that it didn't win him many friends. No surprise there. That doesn't go over very big with nursing home staff.
All I can say is I thank God I'm not related to any "helpful" people who would keep me alive, whether in a vegetative or decreased consciousness state, against my wishes.
Perhaps when Bowtwi was in contact with Ms. Shiavo, she still retained enough brain function at that time to feel pain. That was a while ago, if I read and I'm remembering correctly. Her brain has now turned to fluid, 80% of it! And as a result of that, doctors say she can't feel pain now. It's not guesswork. Doctors know what parts of the brain control pain and all the other functions of the body.
I pray Terri feels no pain and discomfort. If she does, it should be obvious, and the doctors can give her medications to ease her discomfort. To me the greatest discomfort would be to be confined to a bed for 15 years, unable to think or get up and walk or communicate with anyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
"In someways, we are witnessing the backlash of medical advancement--we can keep her alive indefinitely, but we don't have good answers for what to do with someone in her semi-conscious state. I agree with Pres. Bush--let us err on the side of life. No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one! "
You are correct. We would inject them with a medication which would end their lives in a relatively painless and humane way. We would not take extraordinary measures to keep them alive or feed them through a tube.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
waterbuffalo:
"... No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one! "
Hmm, actually they would.
While living in Italia, we saw that they allow many many dogs to roam the streets wild. Only if they begin biting people do the authorities take action. In the mean time, they beg and dig through the trash.
When a dog gets sick, it lays there and Italians walk around it. If it is injured, and crawls into a hole or corner, they ignore it. I have seen dogs walking with heads dropping, open sores on their sides, ribs showing, they need to lay down and rest after walking just a few yards, near death from starvation. Italians will then at that point give them water or wine, but no food or medical care.
I gave one dying dog my sandwich, lead it out behind a vineyard, dug a hole, killed it and buried it; all while being careful not to get any of it's puss or worms on me. The LNs that I worked with were apalled/upset with me. Saying what a horrible thing I had done. How could I be so mean. It upset them such that 4 LNs walked off the job for the remainder of their shift. They had to go to mass to confess and get the shared-guilt of working with me, off their minds, before they could return to work. They were terribly offended that I would show kindness to a starving dog, and they were also terribly offended that I would end it's life [for the purpose of ending it's pain].
:-)
Italians are like that. Greeks not so much, some, but at least with the Italians they generally would never serve the dog as food afterwards. :-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Galen, this is not Italy..lol
This thing really bothers me. When I was in court recently over this girl that was threatening my sons life and had talked my son's friend into hanging herself they had a guardian ad litem come in and talk to all the children and parents and had to give a report to the court. When we went to court the report was given to us right when court started so we were unable to read the facts during the court session, so were unable to dispute anything that was said.
In the report it said things that we had said but it was so miscontrued. And it had the guardian ad litems thoughts. She had already gone in with a prejudiced mind about what should happen and wrote her report in that way.
Although we did get what we wanted (thank goodness), it made us look like we were trying to go after this poor innocent girl that had problems. What a crock.
Also, with the girl that tried to hang herself....The doctors told us there was no hope of her living. That she did not know what was going on. There was no way for her live a normal life. That her responses were reflexes and only reflexes.
She also had a feeding tube. They wanted the mother to stop everything because of no chance of living a normal life.
When the doctors would come in and examine her they would come in for a minute look at her and leave. The mother would try and tell them that she was responding and they wouldn't listen to her because there was no way she could.
Thank goodness she proved them all wrong. I saw her in the store the other day with her sister. Although she is having problems speaking because she is in need of surgery of her vocal cords she was able to respond and was almost normal.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
vickles:
"Galen, this is not Italy..lol"
True.
However the statement:
"... No one would let their sick semi-conscious dog die like that. No one! "
Did not imply [in my small mind] that it meant only Americans of the author's like-mind and culture.
No doubt the err was mine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Feeding tubes are removed all the time. If this is inhumane then where has all the outrage been all along?
Why all the attention on this woman when this happens thousands of times in America every day?
And I absolutley agree with Linda. A feeding tube is a relatively new invention. God did not make us with feeding tubes coming out of our naval. I can't see how this is murder.
Her brain has atrophied throughout the years. What I saw last night was nothing more than an outline.
If this woman does have some state of consciousness like the "new" neurologist is claiming, then that would be the real state of a living hell.
BTW I've yet to hear anyone discuss the "Futile Care" law that George Bush passed (as governor) back in 1999. The bill Bush signed clearly states that hospitals have the right to let indigent vegetants die over the objections of the family.
Sun Hudson, an indigent black baby, died just a couple of weeks ago under this bill.
Baby removed from life support over mother's objections
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I guess that makes George Bush a murderer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
My problem with this is the manner in which she is dying. I perfectly understand letting people go. But on a human level, I have moral problems with the manner or this woman's death.
Misinformed people assumed she would be getting morphine for the pain, or maybe an injection. Working around health care lawyers, no doctor in his right mind will give her anything, lest they be tried as a criminal for murder - and you know someone would bring charges. Its a hot potato - no med malpractice charges for them.
What gets me, is that we humanely put our animals to sleep. A convicted death row inmate, if there's any tiny teensy bit of doubt or a question, or new evidence, has his case appealed, reviewed, appealed, reviewed for years. He is given the benefit of the doubt, new facts are investigated. A federal court was ordered to do the same thing for this woman, a de novo review of new facts and information, to put to rest any lingering doubts, and refused to do so, refused to at least look at new information that has come out, but will do so for a convicted murderer without having to be prompted. Yet an innocent american citizen is denied this basic right. If the convicted murderer is still found guilty he is put to sleep - the "humane" way by lethal injection.
Giving Schiavo a drink of water is now grounds for imprisonment. Taking her off of her "life support" and starving her to death is now considered humane. Well, all of us are on "life support" - take away any of our food and water and we die. Starving a person to death is not humane or kind - it is barbaric.
Under our laws, starving a human being to death is not murder - it is "natural," wiping her lips with water, or putting a wafer on her tongue for her last rites is now illegal.
The real humane thing would be to inject her, or shoot her even - but we cannot show the same mercy on her, a human being, as we do an animal or a heinous murderer.
Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?
I know, its the law, its the law. Well, we all know what law and legalism can do when taken to its extreme. Law, without mercy or compassion is bondage. We are on a slippery slope I fear now. This case is bigger I think than what we realize.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
I 'm going to ask this once again because nobody has bothered to answer me yet.
Feeding tubes have been taken off as a means of life support many times many times. Feeding tubes are a relatively new invention and people have died humanly before they were invented.
I have not heard anybody call it inhumane before Terry Schaivo. So why now? Why now with this lady???
According to the medical experts. She is NOT going to die a painful death. That part of her brain is gone. 80 percent of Terri's brain is gone. Even if God grew her a new brain, it wouldn't be her anymore. Our brains are made up of our memories and experiences. Terry has lost all of that.
btw oldies I missed your above post, where you said you saw Greta too. That was incredibly convincing evidence. And the neurologist didn't have any agendas, he was just reporting what he knew.
And Amen about the tactics the Catholic church is pulling. Saying that she'll be floating around purgatory for an eternity, what nonsense.
My Mom is a staunch Roman Catholic and she's disgusted by what she hears these people saying. One guy was comparing her to Jesus Christ for god's sakes! I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't make her a saint.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
we already have a st.thersa
i thought purgatory was gone, oh no maybe that was limbo
rottie, i don't know the answer to your question about why now ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Actually I think Terri is in purgatory right now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
oldiesman:
"I guess that makes George Bush a murderer."
Man that is a hard hard road to travel on.
Is the murderer the man who pulls the trigger?
Or the man who orders him to pull the trigger?
Or the man who supplies him with everything he needs so he can pull the trigger?
Or the man who over-sees transporting him to the scene of where he is going to pull the trigger?
Or the man who is the Commander-in-chief, whose orders were being followed when the underlings invaded foriegn soil, supplanted the local rulers and pulled the trigger?
Or the man who voted in Congress to authorize the policy that was being followed which allowed our armies to invade foreign soil and to kill the locals?
Or the man who voted these men into office so they could establish a World Empire?
Or the man who paid taxes to financialy support these clowns while they are empire building?
Or the man who refused to vote, but stayed a citizen of the nation, whose goal is empire building?
Off-topic? I think not.
When establishing guilt, assigning it to a person. Can we assign it to just one person? Unless you act completely alone when you do your deed, then the guilt goes to a group. If that group includes our medical profession, it also extends out to everyone who pays medical bills or insurance. If that guilty group is a citizen in a war killing men for their religous beliefs, that guilt goes to the entire nation, for launching a religous war. If the original group is 'The system'; of lawyers and politicains, doctors and HMOs, then that guilt rests equaly on you and on me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Okay well here's another thought on Bush.
IF he is so concerned about the "sanctity of life" as he says he is. What about the 150+ people that were put to death under him when he was governor of Texas?
I happen to believe in the death penalty, for certain circumstances btw, I am simply trying to point out the INCREDIBLE hypocrisy this whole circus reeks of.
Thank God this woman doesn't know whats going on.
It's just too bad these right wing nut jobs with their megaphones and chants aren't respecting the hospice they are in front of where people are DYING.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
From the Herald Tribune in Florida
For other families, protests outside Schiavo hospice add grief
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
does anyone know facts about what is being said regarding all the brokens bones terri had ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
I don’t really feel like chasing down the info again, excathedra, but compression fractures are consistent with her eating disorder and her having been extremely overweight some years before. Rib fractures are consistent with her having received CPR after her collapse. If there were really any hint that any aspect of her condition were due to abuse, that certainly would have come up as part of the case for the defense in the malpractice suit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.