quote: The ruling Nazi party in Germany went beyond killing the enemy to genocide. The Jews (as well as Gypsies and other targeted groups) were either German citizens or non-combatants in conquered nations. When the Nazis took over a country the Jews were rounded up, packed into cattle cars and executed. The Poles and others who got in the way of German army were killed in large numbers, but once the Nazis defeated them, they didn't come back and systematically eliminate all the survivors. Maybe that's why the Jews don't feel like "lightening up".
Ok Oakspeare, point well taken. No doubt it did offend many Jews. But, since we don't know that young Prince Harry was purposefully mocking the Jews, I am still not so sure that he should be "seriously disciplined over this one" as Waterbuffalo put it. He could have been mocking the "Supreme Race", or the Arian Nations types for all we know. I wonder if he was speaking in a faux German accent and pretending to be an arrogent German Officer in a self depracating manner while at this party while drinking schnapps or something. There is no question that there would be and now is a big flap over it that's for sure!
I am definitely not surprised that His Spareness has an apparent "devil may care" attitude, with the sole "purpose" of his life being that of a "spare" ya know. I am sure he can overcome this, but really, that must be a weird thing for him from time to time, and probably skews his mindset at times...
Prince Charles, the lad's father, was "incandescent with rage" over the incident and has ordered him to visit Auschwitz to learn more about the Holocast.
Prince Harry has been caught smoking marijuana and drinking under-age, he got in a fight with a photographer, he may have gotten grades in school that he didn't deserve and now this little incident.
I'm not defending Harry and I do think it was extremely inappropriate, especially given his "status" and fishbowl existence.
HOWEVER, he's still a kid in many respects and kids his age don't realize the severity of WWII, the Holocaust and Hitler's atrocities. One, I think it's very hard for a youngster like him to even comprehend (it was for me) and two, it was so long ago that it's just a history lesson he had to memorize a few details about - unless he had an excellent history teacher who brought it to life.
ALSO, I think we're getting WAY too politically correct these days and it's disgusting. We don't know the whole story and we never will. It's highly possible that he wasn't offensive to anyone at the party and the world would be none the wiser if he wasn't who he is and if the paparrazi wasn't constantly in his face. IF he had dressed in drag, would we be talking about how offensive he was to the gay community? If he came as a pregnant nun would we be hearing outrage from the Catholic community?
I think it's an over-reaction. I do think it's a good idea for him to learn history to where it lives for him and he can understand how his actions could be construed as hurtful and disrespectful. Did he do it to get attention? I dunno and I really don't care. I think it's been blown way out of proportion. *shrug*
Most historians say that Harry's great-uncle, or is that great-great, had to abdicate the throne REALLY because he had been a Nazi sympathizer during the WW and no one trusted him or liked him. Once he declared he would marry Wallace Simpson, that was JUST what they needed to depose him.
So, that makes this offense even more sensitive to Harry's family because they have made every effort to distance themselves from the Nazi symbol ever since.
I guess I'm a bit sensitive to this because I recently found out that my mom, her parents, and her brothers were residents of Auschwitz towards the end of WWII.
My first impression all along was similar to what you posted. That was before hearing a little about the guy, as I never read the People magazine articles or anything else about him. I'm supremely uninterested in the lives of the British royals.
But because of his age, I could see how he could think it little different than dressing up in a pirate's costume. Think about it. Pirates' costumes are considered cute today. Little kids come trick-or-treating wearing them.
Pirates were vicious murderers and robbers of the worst sort but it's amazing what a century or two will do for one's image.
My grandparents and mother and uncles (except fot the youngest) were all born in Lithuania. They fled from the Soviets, and ended up in Germany, where my youngest uncle was born.
My grandparents and my mom just never talked much about Europe, and I never really thought to ask.
My uncle was over at our house for a party we were having, and he got to talking to our German neighbor, and that's how and when it came out.
Steve! Didn't you ever wonder about the tattooed numbers on her arm or wherever? Or was she fortunate enough not to get one? And if she was that young, maybe it didn't make as much of an indelible impression on her, which, would be a good thing I guess.
quote:I guess I'm a bit sensitive to this because I recently found out that my mom, her parents, and her brothers were residents of Auschwitz towards the end of WWII.
Steve!, I'm sorry, but this also helps explain my point. NOW it's really personal. NOW it is more important to you than it ever was before.
I'm sure Harry is starting to feel the same way. :)--> It's a lot more personal to him now, but in a different sort of way. Hopefully he'll be moved by the emotions he's stirred up in people.
Sudo, I like your pirate analogy. I was trying to thinkk of an example that would communicate and you came up with the perfect one. I think it's highly likely that it was like that for him, and William, as he helped with the costume. I just really think we should give the kids the benefit of the doubt.
his choice was probably not a great one given his station and circumstance
no one (except perhaps those at the party) know what he drank or how he spoke
what's wrong with the costume in and of itself? Yes, it certainly pushes people's buttons but then virtually anything will ignite someone's hot spots somewhere somehow as our cyber soundingboard illustrates often
Henry VIII, a gutted Wallace, a marauding Brit in 19th century Ireland, Attila the Hun, Joan 'd Arc, any serial killer...the Pope.
Would dressing as a Luftwaffe officer or Rommel been okay? There's something to .... everyone off and who knows? maybe this royal undertaking was a pre-meditated feed the press excuse for attention.
if he put something as non-descript as a black hefty bag over himself, how many people would take him to task? Could be giant raisin, or a royal dump, or parcelled rubbish for every indescretionary act taking life that ever occured.
I think the fellow would have been press-beaten no matter how he dressed.
If it were a masked costume party and no one knew his identity, would the choice have been less frowned upon?
Bad taste is bad taste. Halloween costumes here are often wildly offensive...but we are often desensitized to those choices, and safe to say, probably no one we know personally is in line for the British crown, (wonder if he went as one of the murdered crown heirs that Dick 3 had offed would have been ok...) so is it okay to overlook the likes of myriad Freddy Krueger, or Jeffry Dahmer, Jesus, or Hitler type costumes seen over the years?
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Ok Oakspeare, point well taken. No doubt it did offend many Jews. But, since we don't know that young Prince Harry was purposefully mocking the Jews, I am still not so sure that he should be "seriously disciplined over this one" as Waterbuffalo put it. He could have been mocking the "Supreme Race", or the Arian Nations types for all we know. I wonder if he was speaking in a faux German accent and pretending to be an arrogent German Officer in a self depracating manner while at this party while drinking schnapps or something. There is no question that there would be and now is a big flap over it that's for sure!
I am definitely not surprised that His Spareness has an apparent "devil may care" attitude, with the sole "purpose" of his life being that of a "spare" ya know. I am sure he can overcome this, but really, that must be a weird thing for him from time to time, and probably skews his mindset at times...
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waterbuffalo
...wish I could have seen that one...
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ChattyKathy
He impressed me with that response.
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Shellon
Making both of them visit Auschwitz
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/12/...ain666570.shtml
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Pirate1974
Prince Harry has been caught smoking marijuana and drinking under-age, he got in a fight with a photographer, he may have gotten grades in school that he didn't deserve and now this little incident.
He'll make a perfect British army officer.
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Belle
I'm not defending Harry and I do think it was extremely inappropriate, especially given his "status" and fishbowl existence.
HOWEVER, he's still a kid in many respects and kids his age don't realize the severity of WWII, the Holocaust and Hitler's atrocities. One, I think it's very hard for a youngster like him to even comprehend (it was for me) and two, it was so long ago that it's just a history lesson he had to memorize a few details about - unless he had an excellent history teacher who brought it to life.
ALSO, I think we're getting WAY too politically correct these days and it's disgusting. We don't know the whole story and we never will. It's highly possible that he wasn't offensive to anyone at the party and the world would be none the wiser if he wasn't who he is and if the paparrazi wasn't constantly in his face. IF he had dressed in drag, would we be talking about how offensive he was to the gay community? If he came as a pregnant nun would we be hearing outrage from the Catholic community?
I think it's an over-reaction. I do think it's a good idea for him to learn history to where it lives for him and he can understand how his actions could be construed as hurtful and disrespectful. Did he do it to get attention? I dunno and I really don't care. I think it's been blown way out of proportion. *shrug*
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outandabout
WOW, cool. And they say Charles is too easy on the boys.
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waterbuffalo
Most historians say that Harry's great-uncle, or is that great-great, had to abdicate the throne REALLY because he had been a Nazi sympathizer during the WW and no one trusted him or liked him. Once he declared he would marry Wallace Simpson, that was JUST what they needed to depose him.
So, that makes this offense even more sensitive to Harry's family because they have made every effort to distance themselves from the Nazi symbol ever since.
I could see how his father would be so angry.
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Steve!
I guess I'm a bit sensitive to this because I recently found out that my mom, her parents, and her brothers were residents of Auschwitz towards the end of WWII.
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OnionEater
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J0nny Ling0
Whoa, Steve! That's deep man. From what country did they hail before they were taken captive?
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Sudo
Steve!
Dittos to what Jonny Lingo just said.. Your mom was in Auschwitz and you are just now finding out? How the heck did that happen?
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Sudo
Belle,
My first impression all along was similar to what you posted. That was before hearing a little about the guy, as I never read the People magazine articles or anything else about him. I'm supremely uninterested in the lives of the British royals.
But because of his age, I could see how he could think it little different than dressing up in a pirate's costume. Think about it. Pirates' costumes are considered cute today. Little kids come trick-or-treating wearing them.
Pirates were vicious murderers and robbers of the worst sort but it's amazing what a century or two will do for one's image.
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Steve!
My grandparents and mother and uncles (except fot the youngest) were all born in Lithuania. They fled from the Soviets, and ended up in Germany, where my youngest uncle was born.
My grandparents and my mom just never talked much about Europe, and I never really thought to ask.
My uncle was over at our house for a party we were having, and he got to talking to our German neighbor, and that's how and when it came out.
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waterbuffalo
Oh, gosh, Steve!
Is she still alive?
How sad :-(
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Steve!
Yup. But she doesn't remember very much from back then.
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waterbuffalo
{{{{{{{{{Steve's mom}}}}}}}}}}}
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J0nny Ling0
Steve! Didn't you ever wonder about the tattooed numbers on her arm or wherever? Or was she fortunate enough not to get one? And if she was that young, maybe it didn't make as much of an indelible impression on her, which, would be a good thing I guess.
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J0nny Ling0
And Oakspeare-
Your credibility with me is way restored for shore. And I do respect your opinion and am swayed by it as well. Have a great day!
:)-->
JL
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Belle
Steve!, I'm sorry, but this also helps explain my point. NOW it's really personal. NOW it is more important to you than it ever was before.
I'm sure Harry is starting to feel the same way.
:)--> It's a lot more personal to him now, but in a different sort of way. Hopefully he'll be moved by the emotions he's stirred up in people.
Sudo, I like your pirate analogy. I was trying to thinkk of an example that would communicate and you came up with the perfect one. I think it's highly likely that it was like that for him, and William, as he helped with the costume. I just really think we should give the kids the benefit of the doubt.
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Steve!
She didn't get a tattoo.
This was at the very tail end of the war. I think my uncle said that they were only there for a few weeks.
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Oakspear
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ChattyKathy
Steve, how interesting.
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MATILDA
it was a costume party
his choice was probably not a great one given his station and circumstance
no one (except perhaps those at the party) know what he drank or how he spoke
what's wrong with the costume in and of itself? Yes, it certainly pushes people's buttons but then virtually anything will ignite someone's hot spots somewhere somehow as our cyber soundingboard illustrates often
Henry VIII, a gutted Wallace, a marauding Brit in 19th century Ireland, Attila the Hun, Joan 'd Arc, any serial killer...the Pope.
Would dressing as a Luftwaffe officer or Rommel been okay? There's something to .... everyone off and who knows? maybe this royal undertaking was a pre-meditated feed the press excuse for attention.
if he put something as non-descript as a black hefty bag over himself, how many people would take him to task? Could be giant raisin, or a royal dump, or parcelled rubbish for every indescretionary act taking life that ever occured.
I think the fellow would have been press-beaten no matter how he dressed.
If it were a masked costume party and no one knew his identity, would the choice have been less frowned upon?
Bad taste is bad taste. Halloween costumes here are often wildly offensive...but we are often desensitized to those choices, and safe to say, probably no one we know personally is in line for the British crown, (wonder if he went as one of the murdered crown heirs that Dick 3 had offed would have been ok...) so is it okay to overlook the likes of myriad Freddy Krueger, or Jeffry Dahmer, Jesus, or Hitler type costumes seen over the years?
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