The closest I ever came to hearing that if we left TWI we would be "killed by the devil" was not that he would kill us but that if we weren't "under the umbrella" of TWI the devil could mess with us, not kill us. :(--> -->
Come on folks if thet were true then God would be a monster, which He isn't. :D--> ;)--> :P-->
I've combed the bible a can't seem to find one single thing about TWI having it all!!!!!! :D-->
I recall one rumor upon the assassination of John Lennon, that a trunk co-ordinator "delivered" John Lennon to Satan (to be killed),upon being offended by supposed satanic lyrics in Lennon's last album.
Some peculiar Christian "deliverance" there, "they love us," oh "yeah, yeah, yeah."
It wouldn't surprise me if the deadly "deliverer" was LCM.
He hated Lennon with a passion,
a fact I know from my attendance at one of his visiting rants in Hartford circ. 1980.
I think he relished the fact that Lennon was killed, not far removed from the darkened mind of the nutcase that shot him.
Danny
[This message was edited by TheInvisibleDan on February 26, 2004 at 2:04.]
I still have a trunk that M*g Ki*H gave me that was from her witch days in college. I'd better get rid of it...it might me a dog wistle for debil spirits.
Back on the "Superman? Green Lantern?" thread, we discussed this. Why didn't you question the people THEN about it? It was started specifically to address the timeframe when vpw
was alive, and for statements from or about him. A few of those fit what you were asking. But, if we're all liars and it didn't happen if you weren't there, there's no point in looking for the thread.
Wordwolf, I don't remember the thread you are speaking about and its possible I wasn't posting at that time. As far as asking for corroboration, that's justified especially with statements like that.
May I ask, do you believe everything you read on the internet, without question?
If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.
I wouldn't want anyone to think that I recant my words in the face of the "request for proof" by OM.... I just want everyone to know that I didn't carry a tape recorder with me everywhere I went...
And it won't make any difference if a hundred other people come forth and make the same claim, OM won't believe you anyway... but then again, who cares what he thinks?
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
Tom, not true. If the allegation is proved, I will believe it.
You don't need a tape recorder...a statement of that magnitude should be in writing. Think about it...if Wierwille really said that, that 'satan would kill us' if we left TWI, don't you think it would be in writing somewhere? He'd be warning us not to leave...a huge warning because it affects our life.
A Sunday Nite service tape would also suffice. Anything like that.
i'm sorry to say i don't like any religion. do you think that's a waybrain element ? really ?
>>
Well I'm not sure.
There is the situation wherein some people develop an aversion to the christian religion (and maybe all religions) as a result of their time in TWI. In effect TWI experience has ruined the concept of christianity for this person at least for a time.
If this aversion is largely a reaction to the bad Way experiences then maybe its useful to consider that not all denomintaions (or religions) function with the treachery and decit that so well defined way leadership.
Remember that TWI was a well oiled machine designed to maximize the prosperity of the organization and its trustees even at the expense of the welfare of its most devoted followers. Not all churches are like this and in my experience most are not. Do they have the potential to be ? Sure. But hopefully , because of what I (or anyone else) learned in TWI
,by negative example, we'll know well in advance
that something isn't right.
However I think its entirely reasonable and advisable to take time off from religion and its demands especially if you are still in the
process of evaluating the damage caused by
TWI experience. In this case there is no need
to mask those very real problems by embracing
another system of worship that claims to remove
all pain.
ITs for this reason that I've typically viewed
the splinter groups as decompression chambers for those exiting TWI. Coming out of TWI into
OM, you are beyond clueless about VP. VPW used to hold "closed corporation" corps and leadership meetings regularly. And many times, before he started to "share," he would make sure nobody was recording what he said. As in for example, after a recorded teaching like a corps night or something, he would have all the equipment turned off, and then he would sit and smoke and "talk" to the corps. The vast majority of these "closed corporation" meetings were NOT recorded, specifically because VP didn't want them to be. Geeeeeeeeze, loueeeeeeze. -->
Anybody who was in the corps when VP was still prez, can testify to this.
If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.
>>
I heard with my own ears from the mouth of VPW that those who would turn their back on TWI , especially the so called salted, could look forward to a fate like that described in MAtthew 18 verse 6:
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
VPW was saying that we had a calling and
responsibility to be ambassadors and that
any lack of committment would frustrate
the word over the world mission and that the
"little ones" were those unbelievers who
had yet to hear the word. So a faltering
WOW would , in Gods eyes, be running out
on his or her commitment and be worthy
of death. That I heard this from VPW
is a certainty and it does not represent
something I heard from someone else who
might have heard it from another. I got
it from the horse's mouth. And this teaching
later showed up on a Sunday tape so I would
not at all be surprised if others hadn't
heard it also
I first heard this around 1975 though had come
to understand that this feeling was around long before that time when at branch meetings we were
routinely warned about the consequences of "going outside of the hedge of protection"
that TWI provided us.
Of course this teaching later mutated into the infamous "greasespot by midnight" teaching so often used by LCM at least when he wasn't talking about his other favorite topic of homosexuality.
OM--meekmasterMike was a t HQ for barely 2 years, by his own admission--ask someone who was there for 5 years or more--there are folks on this board who were....
DOn't know if TWI practiced witchcraft in the sense of meetings and rituals.
But I know for a fact that here in Alaska the charge of Witchcraft was leveled at one believer and her family with malicious vengence.
She was outspoken--more so than I was in those days- and they claimed she was responsible for a whole host of ills. When they couldn't silence her they sent her to differnet twigs. She ended up with her family living with my family. I thought she was there to control me--actually she was sent to my house so they could keep an eye on her. It was a cazy situation.
What TWI did was cruel and heartless on many fronts. They eventually drove her and her family out of state.
Witchcraft was a common allegation againt those who would not conform. THe same caliber of attack that in later years I hear thaat LCM achieved with his "homo" rants
yeah, that's right... he used those exact words many times... just because you want to defend... why aren't you still in again? I forget? seems like you never should have left since none of the "bad stuff" ever happened...
... you really think slick vic was going to let anything get recorded, audio-video-writing, when he was "sharing" with us... those are "our special times" that were just for us! oooh!
and there's no possible way you'll ever know, you weren't there... but think about it... they were really just extra little 'tweaking' sessions, to reinforce that our way in life was through "the way" ... our way to death was being outside the way...
OH! why do I keep wasting my time with this ...
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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wyteduv58
The closest I ever came to hearing that if we left TWI we would be "killed by the devil" was not that he would kill us but that if we weren't "under the umbrella" of TWI the devil could mess with us, not kill us.
:(--> 
-->
Come on folks if thet were true then God would be a monster, which He isn't.
:D--> 
;)--> 
:P-->
I've combed the bible a can't seem to find one single thing about TWI having it all!!!!!!
:D-->
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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TheInvisibleDan
I recall one rumor upon the assassination of John Lennon, that a trunk co-ordinator "delivered" John Lennon to Satan (to be killed),upon being offended by supposed satanic lyrics in Lennon's last album.
Some peculiar Christian "deliverance" there, "they love us," oh "yeah, yeah, yeah."
It wouldn't surprise me if the deadly "deliverer" was LCM.
He hated Lennon with a passion,
a fact I know from my attendance at one of his visiting rants in Hartford circ. 1980.
I think he relished the fact that Lennon was killed, not far removed from the darkened mind of the nutcase that shot him.
Danny
[This message was edited by TheInvisibleDan on February 26, 2004 at 2:04.]
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lindyhopper
I still have a trunk that M*g Ki*H gave me that was from her witch days in college.
I'd better get rid of it...it might me a dog wistle for debil spirits. 
OK then...Who's your mommy?
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WordWolf
Oldiesman,
Back on the "Superman? Green Lantern?" thread, we discussed this.
Why didn't you question the people THEN about it?
It was started specifically to address the timeframe when vpw
was alive, and for statements from or about him.
A few of those fit what you were asking.
But, if we're all liars and it didn't happen if you weren't there,
there's no point in looking for the thread.
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Trefor Heywood
This "delivery up" stuff sounds remarkably like the Fatwahs issued by Muslim clerics.
But they can only do that to Muslims who they think have betrayed the faith. For example the case of Salman Rushdie.
John Lennon was never in the "household" of TWI in the first place.
Just shows how some TWI leaders wanted to rule the world.
Trefor Heywood
"Cymru Am Byth!"
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oldiesman
Wordwolf, I don't remember the thread you are speaking about and its possible I wasn't posting at that time. As far as asking for corroboration, that's justified especially with statements like that.
May I ask, do you believe everything you read on the internet, without question?
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WordWolf
I neither believe nor disbelieve what I read, without
corroboration.
However, JustAsking asked for corroboration and got it
pretty fast. That's NOT what you were doing. You were
attempting to refute rather than seek information.
(I've read the entire thread.)
That other thread's around here somewhere.
I think it's still in "About the Way". It was one of the
few I started.
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oldiesman
Wordwolf,
If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.
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Tom Strange
I wouldn't want anyone to think that I recant my words in the face of the "request for proof" by OM.... I just want everyone to know that I didn't carry a tape recorder with me everywhere I went...
And it won't make any difference if a hundred other people come forth and make the same claim, OM won't believe you anyway... but then again, who cares what he thinks?
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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oldiesman
Tom, not true. If the allegation is proved, I will believe it.
You don't need a tape recorder...a statement of that magnitude should be in writing. Think about it...if Wierwille really said that, that 'satan would kill us' if we left TWI, don't you think it would be in writing somewhere? He'd be warning us not to leave...a huge warning because it affects our life.
A Sunday Nite service tape would also suffice. Anything like that.
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diazbro
excathedra said:
i'm sorry to say i don't like any religion. do you think that's a waybrain element ? really ?
>>
Well I'm not sure.
There is the situation wherein some people develop an aversion to the christian religion (and maybe all religions) as a result of their time in TWI. In effect TWI experience has ruined the concept of christianity for this person at least for a time.
If this aversion is largely a reaction to the bad Way experiences then maybe its useful to consider that not all denomintaions (or religions) function with the treachery and decit that so well defined way leadership.
Remember that TWI was a well oiled machine designed to maximize the prosperity of the organization and its trustees even at the expense of the welfare of its most devoted followers. Not all churches are like this and in my experience most are not. Do they have the potential to be ? Sure. But hopefully , because of what I (or anyone else) learned in TWI
,by negative example, we'll know well in advance
that something isn't right.
However I think its entirely reasonable and advisable to take time off from religion and its demands especially if you are still in the
process of evaluating the damage caused by
TWI experience. In this case there is no need
to mask those very real problems by embracing
another system of worship that claims to remove
all pain.
ITs for this reason that I've typically viewed
the splinter groups as decompression chambers for those exiting TWI. Coming out of TWI into
the cold light of day is a bit much so the
splinters look nice and appealing and perhaps
offer some solace at least for a time. Some
eventually leave while others don't. You'll
have to ask them why as I can only speculate.
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ex10
Ohmigosh!!!
OM, you are beyond clueless about VP. VPW used to hold "closed corporation" corps and leadership meetings regularly. And many times, before he started to "share," he would make sure nobody was recording what he said. As in for example, after a recorded teaching like a corps night or something, he would have all the equipment turned off, and then he would sit and smoke and "talk" to the corps. The vast majority of these "closed corporation" meetings were NOT recorded, specifically because VP didn't want them to be. Geeeeeeeeze, loueeeeeeze.
-->
Anybody who was in the corps when VP was still prez, can testify to this.
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alfakat
I'll testify but OM and I are in a spat on the Child Abuse thread so I'm sure he won't credit my testimony.....
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diazbro
oldiesman said:
If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.
>>
I heard with my own ears from the mouth of VPW that those who would turn their back on TWI , especially the so called salted, could look forward to a fate like that described in MAtthew 18 verse 6:
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
VPW was saying that we had a calling and
responsibility to be ambassadors and that
any lack of committment would frustrate
the word over the world mission and that the
"little ones" were those unbelievers who
had yet to hear the word. So a faltering
WOW would , in Gods eyes, be running out
on his or her commitment and be worthy
of death. That I heard this from VPW
is a certainty and it does not represent
something I heard from someone else who
might have heard it from another. I got
it from the horse's mouth. And this teaching
later showed up on a Sunday tape so I would
not at all be surprised if others hadn't
heard it also
I first heard this around 1975 though had come
to understand that this feeling was around long before that time when at branch meetings we were
routinely warned about the consequences of "going outside of the hedge of protection"
that TWI provided us.
Of course this teaching later mutated into the infamous "greasespot by midnight" teaching so often used by LCM at least when he wasn't talking about his other favorite topic of homosexuality.
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oldiesman
Saying one may be "worthy of death", and saying "satan will kill you", are unsemblable.
Mike, if you're reading this, what's your take on this? Did you ever hear Dr. Wierwille say that if we left TWI, "satan would kill us"?
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alfakat
OM--meekmasterMike was a t HQ for barely 2 years, by his own admission--ask someone who was there for 5 years or more--there are folks on this board who were....
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diazbro
This is a joke right ? VPW says that leaving TWI
is in God's eyes "worthy of death" (a very violent one I might add - nooses and drowning?) and you don't see a problem with that
preferring rather to point out that it didn't use an EXACT phrase "satan would kill us" ?
I think you are trying really hard to avoid
the issue here by worrying about words.
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oldiesman
No joke...that was the statement alleged.
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templelady
DOn't know if TWI practiced witchcraft in the sense of meetings and rituals.
But I know for a fact that here in Alaska the charge of Witchcraft was leveled at one believer and her family with malicious vengence.
She was outspoken--more so than I was in those days- and they claimed she was responsible for a whole host of ills. When they couldn't silence her they sent her to differnet twigs. She ended up with her family living with my family. I thought she was there to control me--actually she was sent to my house so they could keep an eye on her. It was a cazy situation.
What TWI did was cruel and heartless on many fronts. They eventually drove her and her family out of state.
Witchcraft was a common allegation againt those who would not conform. THe same caliber of attack that in later years I hear thaat LCM achieved with his "homo" rants
Mo
(Who used to be Maure)
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Tom Strange
yeah, that's right... he used those exact words many times... just because you want to defend... why aren't you still in again? I forget? seems like you never should have left since none of the "bad stuff" ever happened...
... you really think slick vic was going to let anything get recorded, audio-video-writing, when he was "sharing" with us... those are "our special times" that were just for us! oooh!
and there's no possible way you'll ever know, you weren't there... but think about it... they were really just extra little 'tweaking' sessions, to reinforce that our way in life was through "the way" ... our way to death was being outside the way...
OH! why do I keep wasting my time with this ...
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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excathedra
i don't think he said satan will kill you, i think he said the Adversary will kill you
?
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Tom Strange
dangit!
you're right myseestorEx!
... but I think he also slipped in a couple of "satans" here and there... !
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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excathedra
i am pretty darn certain you are correct
?
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Dot Matrix
Maure
I was going to post a where is Maure thread! I am so glad to see you!
(((Mo)))
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