I've never accepted the 'end justifies the means' argument for anything. Lot of large scale abuse stems from that (name your dictator).
I distrusted the mainstream media before TWI; still do. They called us a cult because of JC ist nicht Gott, but wait a minute. Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus is God, yet somehow THEY aren't cults now are they?
The media lied about us and slandered us non stop. They were acting as cowards, because TWI wasn't big enough to stop them. They had no way of knowing what was going on in TWI. They were/are outsiders bullying us. To say that their tactics were justified because of what has come out in the open in recent years is to say that the end justifies the means. Doesn't!
To answer the question posed by the thread, picture yourself with your fellowship. You're blessed going out witnessing and all of a sudden you're being ganged up on by a bunch of vicious witch hunters who outnumber you, surround you, interrupt you, basically make you feel like .......all in the name of their trinity god.
Being under fire I felt damned intimidated, but over time it just made me real angry! As one poster stated...more resolved, more committed. Sure I believed I was in a spiritual fight. The only thing that's changed now is TWI has no more credibility. Trusting TWI on spiritual matters is like trusting the 3 stooges to fix your plumbing IMO.
But I still believe we have a spiritual adversary and I still distrust the mainstream media.
Whoever said that the critics were usually just as bad as those they were judging and were mostly misinformed was my take on it, too.
Most critics of TWI either hadn't ever been involved or had only been involved for a class or two - never really "sold out" like many of us were. That fact didn't hold much credibility with me either.
Even in the last years I was in - I laughted when I went to the internet and saw that there was an article on an ex-Way site about the "Corps Gun Training" - which really was the same Kansas Safe Hunters Course that the 4H kids took along side of us! IT was such a stupid thing to bring up, IMO.
Even though I was sick and tired of TWI by the time I read that - that site lost all it's credibility for me because #1 - it was old, old, old news; #2 - it was ridiculously exaggerated and sensationalized and #3 - I knew it wasn't true.
After PoP - the critics were ex-Wayfers - those leaders who (mostly) had an ax to grind. Their opinions were tainted as well.
It was when people who had stuck around started confirming that what I had seen and felt wasn't wrong, crazy or "off the word" that I started listening.
I think it took someone who had "been there, done that" to open my eyes a bit wider than they had been.
Most of us have probably seen the episode where the stooges are supposed to be plumbers in that house and they connect water pipes into electrical pipes and finally the exasperated cook says "you want water? Turn on ANYTHING, you'll get it." In TWI it would be "you want devil spirits? Think for yourself about ANYTHING, you'll get 'em."
Few people know the difference between a good spirit and a bad one so people go along and say God gives all.
Actually I think a bigger problem with God's own People today may be that they accuse Him of being a devil. What did some accuse God's only begotten Son of? Of being possessed by the prince of devils. You will never know God until you keep His commandments. I John. If this is true, and if this is the actual revealed word and will of God then if you disobey the word of God, you cannot know can you?
God can and does give clear wisdom and understanding doesn't He? (The epistle of James) but you cannot win without acting on His revealed word and will. Do not argue with God. And what man is God? No man. Not you. Not me. Not your pastor. There has, is and always will be only one true God. True or False you theologianize for yourself.
Just because a wife screws up a cake once does not mean she should hate cakes. When you fall, you pick yourself back up with the help of God. Walking involves a learning process or vice-versa I guess.
Regardless of whether anyone hears or forbears it is nice we have the privilege of love and having peace with one another as much as lieth in us. It's also a privilege to believe.
No liar will get away with false witnesses. We believe in the Righteous Judge don't we? It's his or her own loss of eternal rewards (I Corinthians 2 or 3) It may be the blatant liars will be exposed sooner rather than later. Still God is wise. He is not fooled. Liars can be good at deceiving. Ask Pete Rose.
Mostly I ignored it all. I've always had a jaded view of the media - and the relatives only argued doctrine. The "doubt" that led to the downfall was the apprentice corpse had to have a physical before going to any of the campus locations. The physician told me that they would not fill out the form unless I confirmed the tests they wanted. I called the corpse office - yes, they were all correct. Went back for the form to be finished - and it was. The doctor then had a long discussion with me asking why, why, why ----why does a "Christian" group need to screen candidates for sexually transmitted diseases? Why are NONE of the tests related to general health. Each test was gone over this way. I told my husband - who put me in place for asking questions, and off to HQ we headed. Everything was filtered through a questioning mind - and I finally left TWI (which also ended the marriage).
Trust me, the kids and I are better off, though the transition was tough (ya know - single mom, no life or work skills, too many kids, homeless).
I thought it was good that people were talking bad about TWI. I remember telling my twig coordinator that if people were so bent on attacking it then we had to be doing something right. The devil didn't want people to know the truth we were teaching.
I've also always been a bit rebellious, so doing something people thought was rebellious was delightful to me.
One of my jobs while in rez in Rome City was receptionist. One night very late I received a call from an irate woman looking for LCM, asking where that "effin cowboy" was. She was extremely upset and was looking for him because she said he had been f%#*&@# her daughter. I was stunned. He had been there visiting Indiana for something...don't remember why...but I hung up on her. She didn't give up, kept calling, and I put her on hold forever. I know I contacted my job supervisor but I really don't remember how I was told to handle it. I remember thinking that it was some kind of "attack from the adversary", yet it also really bugged me because I didn't think somebody would just make this up out of the clear blue. If I knew then what I know now, and have known for the past umpteen years, I would have transferred the damn call to him and let the scumbucket get an earful.
I had gotten so much deliverance from Doc Vic’s PF’nAL class and the local leadership, that there was no way any anti-way propagandists were going to convince me of anything. This held true for many years. However, early on I figured out that your life in TWI was only as good as your local leadership. If you had good local leadership, life was great. If you had bad local leadership, life was miserable.
If you had bad leadership, just be patient and wait because eventually they would be gone. Mostly they went into the Corpse or WOW. Some of them were new grads from the Corpse that got sent somewhere else to get a fresh start after screwing everything up.
But everything changed during the mid 1990s when LCM took total control of TWI. After that, all leaders made your life miserable. Then, when the shoe dropped concerning LCM’s inability to control himself, I started taking a closer look at things. I contacted people I knew and trusted that no longer belonged to TWI. Some were ex-clergy and ex-corpse coordinators. When you hear it from them it becomes very believable, especially when they are all saying the same thing. Grease Spot was also a tremendous help.
Where anti-way propagandist could not be trusted because they always had a transparent agenda, ex-insiders were very believable and credible.
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johniam
I've never accepted the 'end justifies the means' argument for anything. Lot of large scale abuse stems from that (name your dictator).
I distrusted the mainstream media before TWI; still do. They called us a cult because of JC ist nicht Gott, but wait a minute. Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus is God, yet somehow THEY aren't cults now are they?
The media lied about us and slandered us non stop. They were acting as cowards, because TWI wasn't big enough to stop them. They had no way of knowing what was going on in TWI. They were/are outsiders bullying us. To say that their tactics were justified because of what has come out in the open in recent years is to say that the end justifies the means. Doesn't!
To answer the question posed by the thread, picture yourself with your fellowship. You're blessed going out witnessing and all of a sudden you're being ganged up on by a bunch of vicious witch hunters who outnumber you, surround you, interrupt you, basically make you feel like .......all in the name of their trinity god.
Being under fire I felt damned intimidated, but over time it just made me real angry! As one poster stated...more resolved, more committed. Sure I believed I was in a spiritual fight. The only thing that's changed now is TWI has no more credibility. Trusting TWI on spiritual matters is like trusting the 3 stooges to fix your plumbing IMO.
But I still believe we have a spiritual adversary and I still distrust the mainstream media.
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Raf
I like you anyway, John.
:)-->
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Oakspear
SSShhhh....there's a reporter in the room
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dmiller
For what it is worth -- the three stooges were Larry, Curly, and Moe.
LCM
-->
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Hope R.
Whoever said that the critics were usually just as bad as those they were judging and were mostly misinformed was my take on it, too.
Most critics of TWI either hadn't ever been involved or had only been involved for a class or two - never really "sold out" like many of us were. That fact didn't hold much credibility with me either.
Even in the last years I was in - I laughted when I went to the internet and saw that there was an article on an ex-Way site about the "Corps Gun Training" - which really was the same Kansas Safe Hunters Course that the 4H kids took along side of us! IT was such a stupid thing to bring up, IMO.
Even though I was sick and tired of TWI by the time I read that - that site lost all it's credibility for me because #1 - it was old, old, old news; #2 - it was ridiculously exaggerated and sensationalized and #3 - I knew it wasn't true.
After PoP - the critics were ex-Wayfers - those leaders who (mostly) had an ax to grind. Their opinions were tainted as well.
It was when people who had stuck around started confirming that what I had seen and felt wasn't wrong, crazy or "off the word" that I started listening.
I think it took someone who had "been there, done that" to open my eyes a bit wider than they had been.
P.S. dmiller - don't forget about Shemp!
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dmiller
Oh yeah! That's right.
:D-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
What a grand idea!...Find some old video footage of lcm ranting and raving and then edit in some clips from the three stooges. It would be hysterical!
I can see Curly slapping his face over and over, as lcm screams about becoming a greasespot by midnight...the possibilities are endless.
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johniam
Most of us have probably seen the episode where the stooges are supposed to be plumbers in that house and they connect water pipes into electrical pipes and finally the exasperated cook says "you want water? Turn on ANYTHING, you'll get it." In TWI it would be "you want devil spirits? Think for yourself about ANYTHING, you'll get 'em."
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LiarLiarPantsOnFire
Few people know the difference between a good spirit and a bad one so people go along and say God gives all.
Actually I think a bigger problem with God's own People today may be that they accuse Him of being a devil. What did some accuse God's only begotten Son of? Of being possessed by the prince of devils. You will never know God until you keep His commandments. I John. If this is true, and if this is the actual revealed word and will of God then if you disobey the word of God, you cannot know can you?
God can and does give clear wisdom and understanding doesn't He? (The epistle of James) but you cannot win without acting on His revealed word and will. Do not argue with God. And what man is God? No man. Not you. Not me. Not your pastor. There has, is and always will be only one true God. True or False you theologianize for yourself.
Just because a wife screws up a cake once does not mean she should hate cakes. When you fall, you pick yourself back up with the help of God. Walking involves a learning process or vice-versa I guess.
Regardless of whether anyone hears or forbears it is nice we have the privilege of love and having peace with one another as much as lieth in us. It's also a privilege to believe.
No liar will get away with false witnesses. We believe in the Righteous Judge don't we? It's his or her own loss of eternal rewards (I Corinthians 2 or 3) It may be the blatant liars will be exposed sooner rather than later. Still God is wise. He is not fooled. Liars can be good at deceiving. Ask Pete Rose.
Forewarned is forearmed!
God bless
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cc ray
Mostly I ignored it all. I've always had a jaded view of the media - and the relatives only argued doctrine. The "doubt" that led to the downfall was the apprentice corpse had to have a physical before going to any of the campus locations. The physician told me that they would not fill out the form unless I confirmed the tests they wanted. I called the corpse office - yes, they were all correct. Went back for the form to be finished - and it was. The doctor then had a long discussion with me asking why, why, why ----why does a "Christian" group need to screen candidates for sexually transmitted diseases? Why are NONE of the tests related to general health. Each test was gone over this way. I told my husband - who put me in place for asking questions, and off to HQ we headed. Everything was filtered through a questioning mind - and I finally left TWI (which also ended the marriage).
Trust me, the kids and I are better off, though the transition was tough (ya know - single mom, no life or work skills, too many kids, homeless).
I'M SO THANKFUL - TO BE FREE
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Belle
I thought it was good that people were talking bad about TWI. I remember telling my twig coordinator that if people were so bent on attacking it then we had to be doing something right. The devil didn't want people to know the truth we were teaching.
I've also always been a bit rebellious, so doing something people thought was rebellious was delightful to me.
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tonto
One of my jobs while in rez in Rome City was receptionist. One night very late I received a call from an irate woman looking for LCM, asking where that "effin cowboy" was. She was extremely upset and was looking for him because she said he had been f%#*&@# her daughter. I was stunned. He had been there visiting Indiana for something...don't remember why...but I hung up on her. She didn't give up, kept calling, and I put her on hold forever. I know I contacted my job supervisor but I really don't remember how I was told to handle it. I remember thinking that it was some kind of "attack from the adversary", yet it also really bugged me because I didn't think somebody would just make this up out of the clear blue. If I knew then what I know now, and have known for the past umpteen years, I would have transferred the damn call to him and let the scumbucket get an earful.
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MountainTopCO
I had gotten so much deliverance from Doc Vic’s PF’nAL class and the local leadership, that there was no way any anti-way propagandists were going to convince me of anything. This held true for many years. However, early on I figured out that your life in TWI was only as good as your local leadership. If you had good local leadership, life was great. If you had bad local leadership, life was miserable.
If you had bad leadership, just be patient and wait because eventually they would be gone. Mostly they went into the Corpse or WOW. Some of them were new grads from the Corpse that got sent somewhere else to get a fresh start after screwing everything up.
But everything changed during the mid 1990s when LCM took total control of TWI. After that, all leaders made your life miserable. Then, when the shoe dropped concerning LCM’s inability to control himself, I started taking a closer look at things. I contacted people I knew and trusted that no longer belonged to TWI. Some were ex-clergy and ex-corpse coordinators. When you hear it from them it becomes very believable, especially when they are all saying the same thing. Grease Spot was also a tremendous help.
Where anti-way propagandist could not be trusted because they always had a transparent agenda, ex-insiders were very believable and credible.
Glad to be breathing the fresh air of freedom.
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