The article doesn't say. Obviously, the 15-year-old quickly recognized him and later, when the mother had found out that lcm was NO LONGER at twi and may have been in the area on the day of the rehearsal, she filed a report with Berea police.
No further action was taken by police following the September 2000 incident at the rehearsal.
I was going to ignore this article, but it ended up here anyway. And then I heard Grizz call my name :)-->... You want an explanation, here it is:
My husband and I had worked closely with Martindale on research for years, and I specifically had been a personal supporter of Martindale during his very rough years post POP.
Also because of past access, we were in the peculiar position to know Martindale, and particularly to know how he reacts to stress, pressure, and specifically his psychological behavior under duress.
After leaving TWI and finding out what had been going on under my nose all those years, and what happened to the Allens, I began posting vociferously on WayDale and publicly challenging Martindale, using what I know of him to get to him. I began posting information I knew and his quotes from Corps nights from my notes to expose his hypocrisy.
Just prior to the incident, Martindale had "stepped down" from the presidency and become head of research. I then started a controversial thread called Why Have You Not Rather Mourned, directly challenging the BOT and TWI believers scripturally on why an accused rapist should be in charge of doctrine at HQ.
The incident in question ocurred right after depositions, and in the middle of a thread where I was calling for the BOT to dump Martindale. I was one of the witnesses for the prosecution.
Martindale's best friend was Mark Wallace, then the Cleveland area coordinator. Wallace had been my BC for several years, lived approximately 5 minutes from the college, and knew exactly where my daughter was every Saturday morning during specific hours since 4th grade: orchestra rehearsal at BW Conservatory of Music.
The morning in question, we had no idea Martindale had just been fired, and evicted from his multi-million dollar home, sent packing. We were in the middle of a normal peaceful Saturday morning rehearsal hundreds of miles from New Knoxville, OH.
I sat in my usual aisle seat at the very back of the auditorium with my head down, working on files while my daughter rehearsed. During that time, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a man come in to the auditorium, walk past me and go half-way down the aisle, and sit on an aisle seat several rows in front of me. His pigeon-toed gait seemed strangely familiar, but I was too absorbed in my work to consider it further.
Later I glanced up toward the stage during rehearsal. In my line of vision was the back of the balding head of the man who had taken the aisle seat. I noticed my daugher seemed unusually distracted, and kept looking into the crowd. I then resumed working. The man got up and walked out after about 10-15 minutes. I did not look up.
After rehearsal, my daughter came up to me very upset. She told me "He's here." Not comprehending why she was so upset and who she was talking about, I asked her who?
"Martindale," she exclaimed. She said Craig walked into the auditorium, sat down, glared at her for several minutes, then got up and walked out. I told her it simply could not be. He would have no reason to be here. He was sitting at International Headquarters hundreds of miles away from us and we had nothing to be concerned about. No, she insisted, he was definitely here. It was definitely him. She would recognize him anywhere. "Where was he sitting?" I asked. She nervously pointed to the aisle seat where the man I had noticed walking in had sat down.
A chill ran down my spine for a split second. Come to think of it, the back of this guy did look like Martindale, and he definitely walked like him. But at the time it did not make sense to me that he would be here.
I told my daughter that she had to be mistaken, that it was someone who looked like him. She insisted not only that it was him, but he glared at her angrily the entire time he was there and intimidated her. I blew it off. It was a case of mistaken identity. But I noticed that curiously, my daughter was clearly shaken. I'd never seen her like this.
Upon returning home, I found out that not only had Martindale been fired two days earlier, but he had been made to pack up his belongings and leave headquarters. Then it made sense.
Years before, after visiting Gartmore and getting blown away by Chris Geer, Martindale was rendered so mentally unstable he made an unscheduled stopover at O'Hare to talk to his then best friend, Frank Scaife, my BC. Frank called me from the airport, telling me he was afraid for Craig-- to pray for him-- he was a basket case-- Frank was truly concerned Craig would commit suicide before he got back to HQ. Craig had threatened to do it, and Frank felt he was serious enough to attempt it before the plane landed in Ohio.
It settled in to me that what had just happened to Martindale was far worse than what had happened back then. And if he was suicidal then, no telling what was going through his head now. And, following his pattern, Martindale was most likely to run to his best friend, now Mark Wallace, and again, my BC, whose house was just minutes from the auditorium.
I know how Craig lashed out and viciously blamed Geer and others close to him for what happened to him the first time. His anger was strong, out of proportion, and sustained, revealing a deeper problem. I knew I would be just one of the people high on his $hit list this time.
It gave me chills. Now it would be within his profile to stalk anyone whom he blamed.
Although I had not seen the face of the man who came into BW, my daughter did see it. Although I still had my doubts that it was actually him, I had to admit that given the circumstances, it was entirely within the realm of possibility.
And above all, where the safety of my daughter is concerned, I had to believe my daughter. She is the one who saw him, she believed it was him, and she was terrified.
And why would a perfect stranger come in and glare menacingly in her direction?
Knowing what Martindale had at stake and had just lost, and the state of mind he was possibly in, I had to take steps to protect my family, and I did. I filed reports with the Conservatory, the Berea Police Department, the Parma and Parma Heights Police Department, and sent Martindale's photo to them and to my daughter's high school. I told them it may have been Martindale, or I may not have been. I did not see the man's face. But my daughter did, and saw enough from this person that she was intimidated.
I set aside my own doubts, and did what I believe every parent needs to do when they notice their child is unusually upset: I listened to what was concerning her and I believed her. And I did what I needed to do to protect my family.
At the time, I had asked those close to me who knew of the incident NOT TO POST IT ON WAYDALE. I wanted to protect my daughter's safety and privacy, and let the incident fade into the background. However, it was posted anyway against my wishes. And before long the thread disintigrated as they often do, and several ignorant posters began to pick my daughter apart.
And just when I had forgotten the incident had even occurred, I got a phone call from a reporter who had discovered it going through police records in Berea and it had piqued his interest about TWI and Martindale. I spoke to him on the condition that he would NOT use my name or any other identifying information. Because I enjoy my privacy and want to protect my daughter.
A friend of mine also spoke to this reporter and loaned him materials to use in preparation for the article. She, too, asked this reporter to leave out her name.
The reporter unfortunately used both her name and her husband's name. The article was pointed out to her husband at work by a coworker who had no idea he had been involved in a cult. My friends were NOT amused.
Neither am I.
So much for not using any identifiable info.
I hope I have answered your questions. If not, I will have to say too bad. I ask that you leave my daughter alone in peace and privacy on this issue.
I am very sorry that some people on WayDale, as you put it, "began to pick my daughter apart." Although it is remotely possible that she saw some other bald guy who resembled Craig (and Lord help the man who looks like him!), I highly doubt it.
I have heard your account many times, from people who have known someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which I think describes Craig to a T. People have described that "look" as completely cold, like looking into a deep chasm, or the eyes of a snake. I have experienced that "look" as well, as if he thought he could do some kind of spiritual damage just by staring. I am sure he was looking for you, Catcup. He did not see it as his fault that stuff happened to him. He blamed you. To a narcissist, it is always everybody else, because facing their own self-loathing destroys them.
You were absolutely right in reporting him and protecting yourselves. Narcissists who have been wounded to their core have been known to become violent, although a show of strength is usually enough to back them off. They eventually look for new sources of admiration and drop their old associations like an old banana peel. But they might try to resurrect those old relationships if their new ones aren't working. Some like negative attention just as much as positive. In other words, watch your back but don't sweat it.
Your daughter was not nuts. This behavior is typical. And your description sent a shiver up my spine, too.
Regards,
Shaz
PS Google NPD or "narcissistic injury," or feel free to email me for more info.
Yes, Shaz, you nailed the information I was hesitant to post. I am not degreed in psychology yet, but it is my major. And in discussing the incident with several people who DO have a Phd in the field, we came to the same conclusions you did. Among other disorders. But that's the primary one.
I'm so sory Catcup that someone who held your secret betrayed you. In my experience, people who do that only want to look "special" - they get a kick out of looking like a person "in the know". But when the $$it hits the fan...they don't care what direction the fan is pointing in causing only more grief.
How many trusts were betrayed? Why do some seem to have so little compassion for their brothers and sisters?
It was posted on WayDale. By someone other than me. Actually, the person who originally posted the story was very furious with LCM when they found out, and wanted to expose what he did. They posted without first checking with me.
Sorry for your trouble Catcup...You got closer to the fire than most of us, which of course means, that it was easier for you to get burnt.
The 5 or 6 times that I spent talking, one on one, with Martindale were un-nerving experiences for me. I never liked him, never felt comfortable with him, never felt any true compassion for anybody ever come out of him, never trusted him and certainly never signed any loyalty oath to him. I suppose that selecting Martindale, as Veepee's successor, only underscores Veepee's own lack of "spiritual perception". Martindale had no business in the pulpit, his "talents" would have been served better had he decided to become a prison guard instead.
Well, now that I've heard the full extent of this incident -- and all the hassle that came to catcup's doorstep -- I regret posting this and bringing it all back.
It never ceases to amaze me how many of us have been harassed by martindale and his behavioral disorders.
The reporter told me he was looking through police reports in Berea for stories to write about and came across the report I filed. It piqued his interest in Martindale, and so he started digging around and calling people.
Wow. When I read this, it gave me chills. Martinpuke truly is a disturbed individual. I remember having thoughts while I was on staff that he was overly paranoid. I saw that kind of paranoia with my ex-husband who was a drug user. The paranoia is that people are always against them and trying to get to them. It's a really scary characteristic. TWI was really run by a crazy man. He should have had psychiatric help a long time ago when he was thinking about committing suicide.
I didn't know Mark Wallace was a best friend of Martinpuke. He used to be my BC. I remember thinking he was a die-hard, but I never knew it was to the degree it was. I remember thinking it was odd that he was made a LC though. I always thought that Josephine was a gossip. She used to tell me way too many details about other people's lives.
Thanks for sharing this. It really filled in some cracks for me. Catcup, I am so sorry your daughter had to experience that horror. That would have scared the hell out of me.
Craig Martindale is spying on me too. I have reported it to the CIA, because "spying" is highly illegal in my town, unless you have a license to kill like Bond, James Bond, a.k.a., 007. If this leaks to the media, I was told by the NSA they would suspend the presidential elections for 666 days, at which time the anti-Christ will appear to thousands of elderly people in Florida and hypnotize them into voting for Ralph Nader.
Okay, not everything above is true, and I've probably left out a few key facts, which is why, in keeping with the topic, I posted it here.
By the way, check out http://www.monitorspy.com, while there's still time. The government is trying to shut it down. You can download free software created by brilliant, renegade hackers which allows you to view others at will on the internet, just as if you were sitting right behind their monitor! It literally turns a person's computer monitor into your own personal video camera, and they'll never know. Smile!
I'm sorry excathedra. Got word from the Supreme Commander of NATO, South Pacific Platoon, that website has been terminated and vaporized. No further downloads possible. Any further attempt will result in a KGB-designed virus that destroys your hard drive's sector zero within the next 60 days. Nice sweater by the way. Is it wool?
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excathedra
why was he there where the 15 year old girl was rehearsing ?
and do you have a link to the article ?
thank you
:)-->
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skyrider
ex,
The article doesn't say. Obviously, the 15-year-old quickly recognized him and later, when the mother had found out that lcm was NO LONGER at twi and may have been in the area on the day of the rehearsal, she filed a report with Berea police.
No further action was taken by police following the September 2000 incident at the rehearsal.
Why was he there? Good question.
Skyrider
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skyrider
ex,
When I heard about this article from a friend, I tried to find a link to it. Nope, I couldn't locate it.
So, I called the paper and ordered a copy.
The phone number (216) 986-2500.
Sorry, I couldn't be of more help.
skyrider
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Grizzy
Parma........violin.........
looks familiar, oh yeah!!!!!!
maybe ask Catcup bout this!!!
:D-->
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Catcup
I was going to ignore this article, but it ended up here anyway. And then I heard Grizz call my name
:)-->... You want an explanation, here it is:
My husband and I had worked closely with Martindale on research for years, and I specifically had been a personal supporter of Martindale during his very rough years post POP.
Also because of past access, we were in the peculiar position to know Martindale, and particularly to know how he reacts to stress, pressure, and specifically his psychological behavior under duress.
After leaving TWI and finding out what had been going on under my nose all those years, and what happened to the Allens, I began posting vociferously on WayDale and publicly challenging Martindale, using what I know of him to get to him. I began posting information I knew and his quotes from Corps nights from my notes to expose his hypocrisy.
Just prior to the incident, Martindale had "stepped down" from the presidency and become head of research. I then started a controversial thread called Why Have You Not Rather Mourned, directly challenging the BOT and TWI believers scripturally on why an accused rapist should be in charge of doctrine at HQ.
The incident in question ocurred right after depositions, and in the middle of a thread where I was calling for the BOT to dump Martindale. I was one of the witnesses for the prosecution.
Martindale's best friend was Mark Wallace, then the Cleveland area coordinator. Wallace had been my BC for several years, lived approximately 5 minutes from the college, and knew exactly where my daughter was every Saturday morning during specific hours since 4th grade: orchestra rehearsal at BW Conservatory of Music.
The morning in question, we had no idea Martindale had just been fired, and evicted from his multi-million dollar home, sent packing. We were in the middle of a normal peaceful Saturday morning rehearsal hundreds of miles from New Knoxville, OH.
I sat in my usual aisle seat at the very back of the auditorium with my head down, working on files while my daughter rehearsed. During that time, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a man come in to the auditorium, walk past me and go half-way down the aisle, and sit on an aisle seat several rows in front of me. His pigeon-toed gait seemed strangely familiar, but I was too absorbed in my work to consider it further.
Later I glanced up toward the stage during rehearsal. In my line of vision was the back of the balding head of the man who had taken the aisle seat. I noticed my daugher seemed unusually distracted, and kept looking into the crowd. I then resumed working. The man got up and walked out after about 10-15 minutes. I did not look up.
After rehearsal, my daughter came up to me very upset. She told me "He's here." Not comprehending why she was so upset and who she was talking about, I asked her who?
"Martindale," she exclaimed. She said Craig walked into the auditorium, sat down, glared at her for several minutes, then got up and walked out. I told her it simply could not be. He would have no reason to be here. He was sitting at International Headquarters hundreds of miles away from us and we had nothing to be concerned about. No, she insisted, he was definitely here. It was definitely him. She would recognize him anywhere. "Where was he sitting?" I asked. She nervously pointed to the aisle seat where the man I had noticed walking in had sat down.
A chill ran down my spine for a split second. Come to think of it, the back of this guy did look like Martindale, and he definitely walked like him. But at the time it did not make sense to me that he would be here.
I told my daughter that she had to be mistaken, that it was someone who looked like him. She insisted not only that it was him, but he glared at her angrily the entire time he was there and intimidated her. I blew it off. It was a case of mistaken identity. But I noticed that curiously, my daughter was clearly shaken. I'd never seen her like this.
Upon returning home, I found out that not only had Martindale been fired two days earlier, but he had been made to pack up his belongings and leave headquarters. Then it made sense.
Years before, after visiting Gartmore and getting blown away by Chris Geer, Martindale was rendered so mentally unstable he made an unscheduled stopover at O'Hare to talk to his then best friend, Frank Scaife, my BC. Frank called me from the airport, telling me he was afraid for Craig-- to pray for him-- he was a basket case-- Frank was truly concerned Craig would commit suicide before he got back to HQ. Craig had threatened to do it, and Frank felt he was serious enough to attempt it before the plane landed in Ohio.
It settled in to me that what had just happened to Martindale was far worse than what had happened back then. And if he was suicidal then, no telling what was going through his head now. And, following his pattern, Martindale was most likely to run to his best friend, now Mark Wallace, and again, my BC, whose house was just minutes from the auditorium.
I know how Craig lashed out and viciously blamed Geer and others close to him for what happened to him the first time. His anger was strong, out of proportion, and sustained, revealing a deeper problem. I knew I would be just one of the people high on his $hit list this time.
It gave me chills. Now it would be within his profile to stalk anyone whom he blamed.
Although I had not seen the face of the man who came into BW, my daughter did see it. Although I still had my doubts that it was actually him, I had to admit that given the circumstances, it was entirely within the realm of possibility.
And above all, where the safety of my daughter is concerned, I had to believe my daughter. She is the one who saw him, she believed it was him, and she was terrified.
And why would a perfect stranger come in and glare menacingly in her direction?
Knowing what Martindale had at stake and had just lost, and the state of mind he was possibly in, I had to take steps to protect my family, and I did. I filed reports with the Conservatory, the Berea Police Department, the Parma and Parma Heights Police Department, and sent Martindale's photo to them and to my daughter's high school. I told them it may have been Martindale, or I may not have been. I did not see the man's face. But my daughter did, and saw enough from this person that she was intimidated.
I set aside my own doubts, and did what I believe every parent needs to do when they notice their child is unusually upset: I listened to what was concerning her and I believed her. And I did what I needed to do to protect my family.
At the time, I had asked those close to me who knew of the incident NOT TO POST IT ON WAYDALE. I wanted to protect my daughter's safety and privacy, and let the incident fade into the background. However, it was posted anyway against my wishes. And before long the thread disintigrated as they often do, and several ignorant posters began to pick my daughter apart.
And just when I had forgotten the incident had even occurred, I got a phone call from a reporter who had discovered it going through police records in Berea and it had piqued his interest about TWI and Martindale. I spoke to him on the condition that he would NOT use my name or any other identifying information. Because I enjoy my privacy and want to protect my daughter.
A friend of mine also spoke to this reporter and loaned him materials to use in preparation for the article. She, too, asked this reporter to leave out her name.
The reporter unfortunately used both her name and her husband's name. The article was pointed out to her husband at work by a coworker who had no idea he had been involved in a cult. My friends were NOT amused.
Neither am I.
So much for not using any identifiable info.
I hope I have answered your questions. If not, I will have to say too bad. I ask that you leave my daughter alone in peace and privacy on this issue.
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shazdancer
Dear Catcup,
I am very sorry that some people on WayDale, as you put it, "began to pick my daughter apart." Although it is remotely possible that she saw some other bald guy who resembled Craig (and Lord help the man who looks like him!), I highly doubt it.
I have heard your account many times, from people who have known someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which I think describes Craig to a T. People have described that "look" as completely cold, like looking into a deep chasm, or the eyes of a snake. I have experienced that "look" as well, as if he thought he could do some kind of spiritual damage just by staring. I am sure he was looking for you, Catcup. He did not see it as his fault that stuff happened to him. He blamed you. To a narcissist, it is always everybody else, because facing their own self-loathing destroys them.
You were absolutely right in reporting him and protecting yourselves. Narcissists who have been wounded to their core have been known to become violent, although a show of strength is usually enough to back them off. They eventually look for new sources of admiration and drop their old associations like an old banana peel. But they might try to resurrect those old relationships if their new ones aren't working. Some like negative attention just as much as positive. In other words, watch your back but don't sweat it.
Your daughter was not nuts. This behavior is typical. And your description sent a shiver up my spine, too.
Regards,
Shaz
PS Google NPD or "narcissistic injury," or feel free to email me for more info.
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Abigail
Mark Wallace was on of LCM's best friends?
Geez, another piece of the puzzle falls into place and begins to make sense!
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Catcup
Yes, Shaz, you nailed the information I was hesitant to post. I am not degreed in psychology yet, but it is my major. And in discussing the incident with several people who DO have a Phd in the field, we came to the same conclusions you did. Among other disorders. But that's the primary one.
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Steve!
I remember you posting about that incident before - wasn't that here on G-spot, back in the early days of this site?
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Jim
Damn.
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krys
I'm so sory Catcup that someone who held your secret betrayed you. In my experience, people who do that only want to look "special" - they get a kick out of looking like a person "in the know". But when the $$it hits the fan...they don't care what direction the fan is pointing in causing only more grief.
How many trusts were betrayed? Why do some seem to have so little compassion for their brothers and sisters?
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Catcup
It was posted on WayDale. By someone other than me. Actually, the person who originally posted the story was very furious with LCM when they found out, and wanted to expose what he did. They posted without first checking with me.
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krys
understood
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GrouchoMarxJr
Sorry for your trouble Catcup...You got closer to the fire than most of us, which of course means, that it was easier for you to get burnt.
The 5 or 6 times that I spent talking, one on one, with Martindale were un-nerving experiences for me. I never liked him, never felt comfortable with him, never felt any true compassion for anybody ever come out of him, never trusted him and certainly never signed any loyalty oath to him. I suppose that selecting Martindale, as Veepee's successor, only underscores Veepee's own lack of "spiritual perception". Martindale had no business in the pulpit, his "talents" would have been served better had he decided to become a prison guard instead.
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skyrider
Well, now that I've heard the full extent of this incident -- and all the hassle that came to catcup's doorstep -- I regret posting this and bringing it all back.
It never ceases to amaze me how many of us have been harassed by martindale and his behavioral disorders.
I know the hurt all too well.
skyrider
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Catcup
No regrets, sky... no worries.
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imbus
WoW Catcup,
I am speecless after reading your experiance. Gives me the willies. Thanks for speaking your truth. Namaste big time.
:)-->
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Radar OReilly
Does anyone know why this was just now published again? Can anyone find out?
Radar
Catcup....please give a hug to kittencup ((((kittencup)))))
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DaddyHoundog
you know ROR, I thought the same think...why now after all this time..
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Catcup
The reporter told me he was looking through police reports in Berea for stories to write about and came across the report I filed. It piqued his interest in Martindale, and so he started digging around and calling people.
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Nottawayfer
Wow. When I read this, it gave me chills. Martinpuke truly is a disturbed individual. I remember having thoughts while I was on staff that he was overly paranoid. I saw that kind of paranoia with my ex-husband who was a drug user. The paranoia is that people are always against them and trying to get to them. It's a really scary characteristic. TWI was really run by a crazy man. He should have had psychiatric help a long time ago when he was thinking about committing suicide.
I didn't know Mark Wallace was a best friend of Martinpuke. He used to be my BC. I remember thinking he was a die-hard, but I never knew it was to the degree it was. I remember thinking it was odd that he was made a LC though. I always thought that Josephine was a gossip. She used to tell me way too many details about other people's lives.
Thanks for sharing this. It really filled in some cracks for me. Catcup, I am so sorry your daughter had to experience that horror. That would have scared the hell out of me.
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satori001
Craig Martindale is spying on me too. I have reported it to the CIA, because "spying" is highly illegal in my town, unless you have a license to kill like Bond, James Bond, a.k.a., 007. If this leaks to the media, I was told by the NSA they would suspend the presidential elections for 666 days, at which time the anti-Christ will appear to thousands of elderly people in Florida and hypnotize them into voting for Ralph Nader.
Okay, not everything above is true, and I've probably left out a few key facts, which is why, in keeping with the topic, I posted it here.
By the way, check out http://www.monitorspy.com, while there's still time. The government is trying to shut it down. You can download free software created by brilliant, renegade hackers which allows you to view others at will on the internet, just as if you were sitting right behind their monitor! It literally turns a person's computer monitor into your own personal video camera, and they'll never know. Smile!
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excathedra
your monitorspy link doesn't work
:)--> the government is trying to shut it down because they want you all to themselves !!!!!
yes satori, if it seems like i'm following you around here, i am !!!! (alfakat laugh)
i'm just so happy to see you !
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satori001
I'm sorry excathedra. Got word from the Supreme Commander of NATO, South Pacific Platoon, that website has been terminated and vaporized. No further downloads possible. Any further attempt will result in a KGB-designed virus that destroys your hard drive's sector zero within the next 60 days. Nice sweater by the way. Is it wool?
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