Gee it sucked while we were there, but I don't remember hearing of any abuse from G.B. I just thought he was a goof-ball. Son-o'-mine was 4 and 5 at the time and doesn't have horror stories, thankfully. There was a really nice wc staff woman, Linda something who worked in children's activities whom I wish I could thank for watching out for our son. I am thankful for dodging the bullets from the creeps, but I feel so sorry for those who didn't. What an evil mess we survived.
Oh, we missed the reign of B & D M******n. J & M.A. H*****x were the corps coordinators during our time. I'm not saying anything good, I'm not saying anything bad...I'm just glad I haven't seen them since.
quote:I don't remember hearing of any abuse from G.B. I just thought he was a goof-ball.
That's the impression I get from GB too; he lives right across the river from me. I went to his fellowship a few times. He did the adult fellowship and C did the kids. I don't know...that camp I was at had a lot of teenage girls at it and they all seemed perfectly comfortable with him. By the way, who haven't you seen since? The M's or the H's?
g b, was pretty much an a-hole when you stepped out of line, but i have not heard any incidents involving hime personally, or that i can remember. who knows...
Does anyone remember children's camp? Single corps with no experience in charge of children, while parents were off at corps week. That was fun. We did do alot of cool stuff, like capture the flag on uncle harry hill and things like that. It was a fun time for most kids, those who were out of the loop, were pretty much kicked to the curb, you know, parents who were just "twig coordinators". These camps were huge, then they shrunk and shrunk, till nothing. same with teen summer schools. too much drama!!
Linda, this is about the umpteenth thing I've heard that Bob M (and/or D*ttie) knew about and didn't put a stop to. Do you think they were just protecting their royal lifestyle or not strong enough to put a stop to these things?
Bob was a weenie. I knew him when he was brought into the way of NY (Rye) to replace Heefner. Then I knew him at HQ he was a region leader and together we hitch hiked out to Calif. to go on what later became LEAD. And I knew him a bit when he was at Rome City.
At first I was in awe of him. I was young, he came in as my limb leader. But after knowing him for a while, and growing up a bit, I came to the conclusion that he was pretty gutless.
Vickles, sorry about the initials. I figured if I put the real names in they'll just get moderated out. John and Maryann Hen*****s were the corps coordinators while I was there.
John-u-iz, I haven't seen the Hendricks' since I left in '86, and that's fine with me.
Wow, I knew them (j and m...initials now that I know, by the way thanks so much) in 1976-78. They were LC's and I spent some time with them. I really liked them and respected them. I also knew J's mom and brother.
Shaz, I don't think we were ever given a reason for GB's taking over Children's Activites once he and C married. I remember having the sense that it was for exactly the reason you've guessed--because he was the man. Many of us were quite astounded, since C had done such a fantastic job our first year and G was such a jerk.
Having been through the mini-corps at the Indiana Campus, ive heard many stories of girls (not many boys, that ive heard) through the years who have been sexually molested during their stay at the campus. It is fantastic that Mark Naberschnig finally got busted for his perversions, even though he was on the field, he was still trained as Way Corps. This is just a tip of a VERY LARGE iceberg, IF more people bring to light these horrible acts that were imposed upon them. <BR><BR>One of the reasons why molestations were prevelent at the Indiana Campus when there was still alot of Corps coming in, was that there was sooo many people watching kids for other people. The parents would be in classes all day, study hall, etc, that children's activites would basically babysit the kids all day, all week. Then you had the rovers, who patroled the halls at night, when the kids were suppossed to be in bed. Perfect scenario for a child abuser. Good parents, who would not normally expose their kids to so many people, had no choice, if they wanted to follow the corps outline for the day. So, people with these sexual problems could have easy access to children while parents were off taking classes, being slaves around the grounds, out witnessing, etc. Now, there were alot of great people in those days, but there were some sleazies who slipped in, and preyed upon innocent children. When these kids grew up and become junior corps, it explains alot of the illicit behavior that dominated the social scene. <BR><BR>This also affected kids when being "wooden-spooned" by total strangers. Basically everyone at the Indiana campus wore wooden spoons in their back pockets for easy access for all kids that needed "reproving". So, people who were watching the kids, alot of staff, for some corps it was their job that block, or whatever, could reprove, or spank kids, when they deemed necassary. so, single corps, from emporia or hq, who had no experience with kids, could smack the hell out of them, it they did not "obey". There were numerous times that i got the spoon, that left brusies and abrasions from some excited corps person. This was common, and accepted among the children. We almost left due to that, and i wish we had.<BR><BR>The family corps program exposed kids to all kinds of people who should not be in the position of overseeing children, period. To childrens activities, ground crews, rovers, there were perfect opportunities for the sexual predator to take advantage of situations. I am glad that justice has been served for one offender, but i know this is just one of many occurances that have left many more victims.
Sorry to shatter anyone's image of GB but he indeed was innapropriate with girls. I remember once he unhooked a 15 year old girls bra. She punched him and he smacked her back and yelled at her for not being able to take a joke. He also used to make comments to the older teen boys about our junior corps girls bodies. It's not exactly rape, but it's not right.
He used to freak out, just snap, and beat us and say the most horribly abusive things. Then he'd laugh it off 5 minutes later.
His wife was a natural with kids, nothing like him at all. I loved her, feared and hated him. He was not unlike Loy in that he was able to snap on a dime and become violent.
My God what kind of sick perverted monsters were running this so-called religion? The only reason why the TWI is still around from what I read here they had pretty good lawyers that stopped them from taking all their assets!
Thanks for the info, Georgio. I never knew G all that much, but had a few conversations with C on teaching children, and having gone into the field after, I was left with the impression that she'd had some training in early childhood development, and had a good heart.
Very sorry for all that happened to you. And so glad I got out of there before it could happen to my own kids.
The wooden spoon thing was abhorrent to me. If my kids were to misbehave, it was to be reported to ME and MY WIFE. We do the discipline of OUR kids. Thank God this did not happen because I wasn't married at the time. Had it happened, I would have turned the child over to my wife to be disciplined and then begin to "discipline" the idiot who whacked my kid with a wooden spoon.
I saw one occurence of this on the field. An advanced class grad spanked someone else's kid and the father found out and in front of a group of people after a PFAL class threatened the man that did it. A lot of shouting going on.
One of the most troubling factors regarding the strict (abusive) "care" of the kids ... was the double standard between the in-residence children and the staff children. Two set of rules for sure.
But in addition to that, the TWI climate during the 90's took a terrible toll on the young ones at Rome City. Here's why: It wasn't just us Corps-in-training that were scared to death of dismissal, and subsequent homelessness, friend-less-ness, job-less-ness; it was also the staff. As a result, when a child or teen misbehaved, the parents (whether staff or students) were panic-y that their whole family would be kicked out. A sort of corporate blackmail evolved among and between staff and in-residence families regarding knowledge of the kids' misbehaviors. Example: one of our kids along with the son of W. Cl--p (Family Corps CEO) actually stole a car, and got caught by the cops. Did anyone ever hear anything about this during the lunchtime rants? Did anyone ever hear about this during Corps night? Nope. It was a crime worthy of substantial punishment, but we never got one word of reproof. Another example: The Children's Activities Director confronted us constantly (it was fashionable to confront back then), until one day when we told him that his own daughter was suicidal. She had a crush on one of our boys, but our boy was not interested in her, and her response to that was to say she was going to kill herself. We took it to her dad, and afterward he backed off from all of his confronting. Was this because he was thankful for the info? No. It was because he thought we would report his "possessed" daughter to the higher-ups.
What a sick environment for these children! Not only were they smacked around, neglected, and verbally abused ... but there was no model for integrity, no genuine ethics being practiced by the adults around them ... just pompous superficiality and an over-riding fear which any child could sense about the adults. It's so sad that some of these kids later rejected God and any mention of God, because of this. It's equally sad that some of them imitated their parents and gradually grew to become the same cultish droids as their role-models.
Sexual abuse of kids? Yep, that happened too. The 13-year-old daughter of some friends of ours finally told her parents that she had been molested by a 19-year-old son of a staff couple. She kept it inside of herself until after the family had been dismissed for something entirely unrelated. After they were packed up and on their way from the campus, this little girl told. The boy had threatened her that if she reported him, her family would be canned. Once they were canned for something else, she could finally speak. This was rape.
It doesn't feel good to talk about this stuff. But it's important to expose the truth, so that maybe other children (other people) won't be so devestated.
And regarding someone's previous posts, claiming that their child's experience at "camp" was such a positive thing, well, I don't think you can begin to compare a few days at "camp" with what our kids went through.
Sexual abuse of kids? Yep, that happened too. The 13-year-old daughter of some friends of ours finally told her parents that she had been molested by a 19-year-old son of a staff couple. She kept it inside of herself until after the family had been dismissed for something entirely unrelated. After they were packed up and on their way from the campus, this little girl told. The boy had threatened her that if she reported him, her family would be canned.
Excuse me while I go stick my finger down my throat and vomit.
I don't have anything to say. I can't put my frustration and rage into words after reading this. Thank God we're out of it.
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gladtobeout
Thanks Exie
Have a good day!!!!!
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Steve!
gtbo - where the heck else are they going to go?
They've seen enough of the bad stuff that if they were going to leave, they would have done so LOOOOOONG ago.
Exie, I didn't mean to imply anything at all - it was just such a shock. I guess it shouldn't have been.
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excathedra
no offense taken at all, stevie
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Belle
They are LCs of Florida and RC's of some region that consists only of FL and the 20 people left in AL.
Full time living with all the amenities and benefits befitting royalty in TWIt-ville.
Bri*n and his wife and kids are on staff at hq or Gunnison.
Staunch supporters of TWI and continuing to break up families who don't tow the line.
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tonto
Gee it sucked while we were there, but I don't remember hearing of any abuse from G.B. I just thought he was a goof-ball. Son-o'-mine was 4 and 5 at the time and doesn't have horror stories, thankfully. There was a really nice wc staff woman, Linda something who worked in children's activities whom I wish I could thank for watching out for our son. I am thankful for dodging the bullets from the creeps, but I feel so sorry for those who didn't. What an evil mess we survived.
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tonto
Oh, we missed the reign of B & D M******n. J & M.A. H*****x were the corps coordinators during our time. I'm not saying anything good, I'm not saying anything bad...I'm just glad I haven't seen them since.
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johniam
Tonto:
quote:I don't remember hearing of any abuse from G.B. I just thought he was a goof-ball.
That's the impression I get from GB too; he lives right across the river from me. I went to his fellowship a few times. He did the adult fellowship and C did the kids. I don't know...that camp I was at had a lot of teenage girls at it and they all seemed perfectly comfortable with him. By the way, who haven't you seen since? The M's or the H's?
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vickles
I have to be honest with you all...the initials and half names are driving me crazy!!!!
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Thelema
g b, was pretty much an a-hole when you stepped out of line, but i have not heard any incidents involving hime personally, or that i can remember. who knows...
Does anyone remember children's camp? Single corps with no experience in charge of children, while parents were off at corps week. That was fun. We did do alot of cool stuff, like capture the flag on uncle harry hill and things like that. It was a fun time for most kids, those who were out of the loop, were pretty much kicked to the curb, you know, parents who were just "twig coordinators". These camps were huge, then they shrunk and shrunk, till nothing. same with teen summer schools. too much drama!!
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My3Cents
Bob was a weenie. I knew him when he was brought into the way of NY (Rye) to replace Heefner. Then I knew him at HQ he was a region leader and together we hitch hiked out to Calif. to go on what later became LEAD. And I knew him a bit when he was at Rome City.
At first I was in awe of him. I was young, he came in as my limb leader. But after knowing him for a while, and growing up a bit, I came to the conclusion that he was pretty gutless.
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tonto
Vickles, sorry about the initials. I figured if I put the real names in they'll just get moderated out. John and Maryann Hen*****s were the corps coordinators while I was there.
John-u-iz, I haven't seen the Hendricks' since I left in '86, and that's fine with me.
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vickles
Wow, I knew them (j and m...initials now that I know, by the way thanks so much) in 1976-78. They were LC's and I spent some time with them. I really liked them and respected them. I also knew J's mom and brother.
They must have changed quite a bit, huh?
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Linda Z
Shaz, I don't think we were ever given a reason for GB's taking over Children's Activites once he and C married. I remember having the sense that it was for exactly the reason you've guessed--because he was the man. Many of us were quite astounded, since C had done such a fantastic job our first year and G was such a jerk.
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crystal r
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Georgio Jessio
Sorry to shatter anyone's image of GB but he indeed was innapropriate with girls. I remember once he unhooked a 15 year old girls bra. She punched him and he smacked her back and yelled at her for not being able to take a joke. He also used to make comments to the older teen boys about our junior corps girls bodies. It's not exactly rape, but it's not right.
He used to freak out, just snap, and beat us and say the most horribly abusive things. Then he'd laugh it off 5 minutes later.
His wife was a natural with kids, nothing like him at all. I loved her, feared and hated him. He was not unlike Loy in that he was able to snap on a dime and become violent.
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nyunknown
My God what kind of sick perverted monsters were running this so-called religion? The only reason why the TWI is still around from what I read here they had pretty good lawyers that stopped them from taking all their assets!
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shazdancer
Thanks for the info, Georgio. I never knew G all that much, but had a few conversations with C on teaching children, and having gone into the field after, I was left with the impression that she'd had some training in early childhood development, and had a good heart.
Very sorry for all that happened to you. And so glad I got out of there before it could happen to my own kids.
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Eagle
The wooden spoon thing was abhorrent to me. If my kids were to misbehave, it was to be reported to ME and MY WIFE. We do the discipline of OUR kids. Thank God this did not happen because I wasn't married at the time. Had it happened, I would have turned the child over to my wife to be disciplined and then begin to "discipline" the idiot who whacked my kid with a wooden spoon.
I saw one occurence of this on the field. An advanced class grad spanked someone else's kid and the father found out and in front of a group of people after a PFAL class threatened the man that did it. A lot of shouting going on.
Ruined the class.
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excathedra
good
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Daggoo
I do not have knowledge of G----B--------- predating children, only being unqualified to work with them.
I do know he had sexual affairs with single women (plural) year after year. He was not very discreet.
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Shifra
One of the most troubling factors regarding the strict (abusive) "care" of the kids ... was the double standard between the in-residence children and the staff children. Two set of rules for sure.
But in addition to that, the TWI climate during the 90's took a terrible toll on the young ones at Rome City. Here's why: It wasn't just us Corps-in-training that were scared to death of dismissal, and subsequent homelessness, friend-less-ness, job-less-ness; it was also the staff. As a result, when a child or teen misbehaved, the parents (whether staff or students) were panic-y that their whole family would be kicked out. A sort of corporate blackmail evolved among and between staff and in-residence families regarding knowledge of the kids' misbehaviors. Example: one of our kids along with the son of W. Cl--p (Family Corps CEO) actually stole a car, and got caught by the cops. Did anyone ever hear anything about this during the lunchtime rants? Did anyone ever hear about this during Corps night? Nope. It was a crime worthy of substantial punishment, but we never got one word of reproof. Another example: The Children's Activities Director confronted us constantly (it was fashionable to confront back then), until one day when we told him that his own daughter was suicidal. She had a crush on one of our boys, but our boy was not interested in her, and her response to that was to say she was going to kill herself. We took it to her dad, and afterward he backed off from all of his confronting. Was this because he was thankful for the info? No. It was because he thought we would report his "possessed" daughter to the higher-ups.
What a sick environment for these children! Not only were they smacked around, neglected, and verbally abused ... but there was no model for integrity, no genuine ethics being practiced by the adults around them ... just pompous superficiality and an over-riding fear which any child could sense about the adults. It's so sad that some of these kids later rejected God and any mention of God, because of this. It's equally sad that some of them imitated their parents and gradually grew to become the same cultish droids as their role-models.
Sexual abuse of kids? Yep, that happened too. The 13-year-old daughter of some friends of ours finally told her parents that she had been molested by a 19-year-old son of a staff couple. She kept it inside of herself until after the family had been dismissed for something entirely unrelated. After they were packed up and on their way from the campus, this little girl told. The boy had threatened her that if she reported him, her family would be canned. Once they were canned for something else, she could finally speak. This was rape.
It doesn't feel good to talk about this stuff. But it's important to expose the truth, so that maybe other children (other people) won't be so devestated.
And regarding someone's previous posts, claiming that their child's experience at "camp" was such a positive thing, well, I don't think you can begin to compare a few days at "camp" with what our kids went through.
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excathedra
thanks shifra, for your post
what a bunch of ......
ohman
oh yeah mr. clapp, i do hope you're reading, along with your other silly followers
....
get a job
....
....
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Danny
I would have to say I'm guilty of being stupid.
You go there thinking good of all,or not thinking evil.
You as so busy with the program and life and all.
Nothing like to much work classes at night.
Like when would you have time with a school age child.
When they get home form school you have the important work.
And the dishes and bless patrol.
I would have to say the place was ripe very ripe for anything to happen.
I would be guilty very guilty for being there.
It would of been the perfect place for a sicko to live.
And I would of been blind as can be.
May the victims find peace somehow.
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Jim
Excuse me while I go stick my finger down my throat and vomit.
I don't have anything to say. I can't put my frustration and rage into words after reading this. Thank God we're out of it.
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