Man that numerology bit reminds me of Farakhaan's "NUMBER NINE IS PREGNANT" bit.
Anyway, I know what your getting at, even though it's hard for me to verbalize.
I have a very hard time dealing with people, non-wayfers included, who go around acting all spiritual on me. I mean some people really get off the deep end. Spiritual laws apply just like our physical relm laws apply. God gave us brains, logic, commen sense, etc... to USE them.
I know a lady who proclaimed herself with a "healing" ministry and was telling people to do her program for x amount of weeks because that is a "spirtual" number. Huh? I still don't get that.
quote: So the question is, how much to you still "spiritualize" your life?
Put it this way. I don't respect spirituality, I respect people. The people who always talked about spiritual significance in everything never seemed to be able to back it up, but there were individuals I knew who consistently seemed to say the right words at the right time, be in the right place at the right time, etc. only THOSE people didn't talk that much about stuff, they just lived it.
quote: I recall from Way Daze how we used to look for the "spiritual" significance in every coincidence.
More than that, it seemed that every situation in our lives was the product of believing, positive or negative, or a blessing from God, or an attack of the adversary, or the consequence of others' positive/negative believing around us.
For the corpse who LOVED to tell you what to do, it was pretty convenient. That way, they could feel like they were teaching you SOMETHING. So little of TWI worked in reality that they had to invent things like this.
I remember thinking how spiritual it was that I always got a parking space in front of the building to go shopping.... -->
Now I find that I still get a parking space in the front and I'm not all that spiritual anymore.
Whats funny is before I read this I was in the car with my son picking my daughter up from work. I was stopped at a stop light and remembered when I was in twi how I would say in the name of JC change to green....lol....sometimes it did and sometimes it didn't...when it did I thought gosh my believing is so there...so spiritual, ya know?
My son got a big kick out of me trying to change the light today...of course I didn't say in the name of....but he still thought it was pretty funny.
How spiritual we all were, huh? We were believing all right!!!!
I remember someone came up to me at ROA and asked me to minister to her...I had never met her in my life. I prayed for some things that were very big deal at that time...I just knew that that is what she had.
When I was done she looked into my eyes with such disappointment. Brought me down a peg or two, I'll tell ya.
I thought I was being so spiritual. Well that taught me a lot.
I think back in the daze hearing quite a few praying quite impressively - as if possessing the super-power of x-ray vision - for weakened white blood cell corpuscles.
There was apparently quite an epidemic.
Was I dreaming, - or did anyone else here happen to hear this prayer, once or twice or more throughout their cultic career?
"...and the clouds parted and the sun shown down upon our street corner, so that we could wash those cars all day..."
Was a story I once heard. I guess God was really upset about all those dirty cars in that little dirt bowl town in dirt bowl Texas. After all, when things are dirty they attract devil spirits. So keep your room, and house, and car, and clothes, and especially your undies (don't want the devil gettin in there) cleaner than the guys forehead in the front row of the auditorium after wiping LCM's spit off his face.
Did you see how I used "many ands". Its a figure.
Please save your questions for the end of my post.
I jumped on the numerics band wagon. I was also on a spiritual definition mission. They were great ways to wow everyone at the release sessions...and an easy way too.
Now? None
Not at all.
The Verd as we all know has everything that pertains to life and Godliness, which makes everything spiritual, which means that our spiritual-leaders-in-da-Verd had the right, nay the responsibility to correct us and if at all possible control our every move. "Now receive the card with your right hand, switch it to your left, and then shake with your right"...because your left hand is the hand of poo-poo wiping. You know when I graduated thousands of other people were able to make it thru without anyone telling them how to receive a diploma, yet twits felt like we needed to be hand held and spoon fed the whole way thru. We became dependent on them to tell us what to do. How to tie your shoe? I don't know get some wise council.
What they failed to tell me was to wipe with my left hand. I couldn't figure that one out on my own. lol Suckers. They want a piece of my foot? They've had it whether they knew it or not.
Yes they did seem to want to control...even how much toilet paper to use...how to eat at a table...etc.
I always wondered why they felt they had to teach us everyday stuff...most of the stuff I already knew-like how to eat at a table sort of thing...didn't know about the toilet paper...lol
Like we were stupid...but then I still hung in there believing that these men were so spiritual...I still can't believe that I believed so much of the crap!!!!!
One thing I couldn't stand is when you'd go to the movies or watch a video with a "head honcho" and after the movie he'd pick it all apart and try to spiritualize the whole thing instead of just looking at the movie for what it was.......ENTERTAIMENT !!! Sheesh, what's up with that?
and if you could try and take two minute showers as well. Your usually spiritually clean enough after two minutes. :D--> or at least it keeps the spiritual water bill down to a needs basis.
My wife always smiles at my smooth way of doing things, like pealing a banana and cutting it into my cereal bowl. Thank you Way Corps training. I knew it would be good for something...like impressing the ladies She always tells me I should have my own cooking show.
"I thought of this when Shaz mentioned TWI's spiritualization of 'reproof.' That's how they made us listen - they moved it from the physical domain to the spiritual, where they claimed dominion."
And not only did they then have "dominion" over us, but they also had conveniently moved the debate into an arena where nothing could be examined. Remember? Physical things can be examined, spiritual things can be "ascertained" - or some such crap.
Anyway, the long and short of it was, once the matter was moved into the "spiritual" category, the debate was over. The MOG was right, and that was that. Who were we to question GOD?
Put it this way. I don't respect spirituality, I respect people.
That says it for me. I'd rather concentrate on what I know, and interpret things in that light, than on the invisible things. Heck, NO man knows, 'cuz they're spiritual! Unless we received revelation, we know NOTHING about spiritual matters. (And if revelation as taught by TWI is a crock, then WHAT were we and they doing?!)
And like Geo said, it's tough to argue with someone who says they "know" about something you can't see, hear, or feel. "Spiritual" insight was a perfect way to lord it over others.
The people who always talked about spiritual significance in everything never seemed to be able to back it up, but there were individuals I knew who consistently seemed to say the right words at the right time, be in the right place at the right time, etc. only THOSE people didn't talk that much about stuff, they just lived it.
Perfect! That bears repeating. It reminds me of someone saying that people who talk about sex all the time most likely are the ones NOT getting it. ;)--> I'd rather see a sermon any day than hear one. TWI was rather verbose and bombastic when it came to spiritual matters, but terribly lacking in the "proof" department.
Vickles, I had to chuckle at your parking spot and green light spirituality. I found myself doing similar things and thinking I was so "it". GAWD, it's embarrassing now!
Satori, I do find myself thinking of teachings or the significance of numbers occasionally but I try to catch myself and dismiss the thought as quickly as I can. It's part of getting rid of waybrain for me. Good questions you asked.
The so-called spiritual significance of numbers reminds me of an example of someone over spiritualizing:
(By the way, Bullinger wrote that numbers were figures of speech used in the bible, to indicate and confirm meanings, not that these numbers would have magical significance in the "real" world)
I was once asked to sit down with the wayfers in our area to explain several ballot initiatives and referenda in the upcoming election. We had quite a few young wayfers who would be voting for the first time, and several expressed confusion over the wording of some of the things on the ballot and the reprecussions.
I started through the various initiatives, explaining what they were intended to do, and what their opponents and proponents said about them, in order that the new wayfer voters would be able to make an informed decision.
When I got to Initiative 4, a long-time grad piped up with "and we all know what the Word teaches about the number 4" and began to expound upon how the meaning of the number 4 was a clue as to the consequenses of voting for this initiative.
I let her finish, and added that the numbers were assigned randomly, and that the number had no significance whatsoever.
I actually asked about that when they started pushing that stupid thing. What was it? $200, I think? Anyhoo, I asked if that would be considered an idol. At a leaders meeting. Hahahahahaha. Why did they NEVER learn to NOT call on me? Talk about your awkward moment...
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RottieGrrrl
Man that numerology bit reminds me of Farakhaan's "NUMBER NINE IS PREGNANT" bit.
Anyway, I know what your getting at, even though it's hard for me to verbalize.
I have a very hard time dealing with people, non-wayfers included, who go around acting all spiritual on me. I mean some people really get off the deep end. Spiritual laws apply just like our physical relm laws apply. God gave us brains, logic, commen sense, etc... to USE them.
I know a lady who proclaimed herself with a "healing" ministry and was telling people to do her program for x amount of weeks because that is a "spirtual" number. Huh? I still don't get that.
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johniam
quote: So the question is, how much to you still "spiritualize" your life?
Put it this way. I don't respect spirituality, I respect people. The people who always talked about spiritual significance in everything never seemed to be able to back it up, but there were individuals I knew who consistently seemed to say the right words at the right time, be in the right place at the right time, etc. only THOSE people didn't talk that much about stuff, they just lived it.
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excathedra
seriously though, i don't spiritualize it very much anymore.... that would make me feel "ewwww yuck"
although i do talk to god and pray and stuff (just in my car, in my own head, and MY life)
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JustThinking
For the corpse who LOVED to tell you what to do, it was pretty convenient. That way, they could feel like they were teaching you SOMETHING. So little of TWI worked in reality that they had to invent things like this.
JT
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vickles
I remember thinking how spiritual it was that I always got a parking space in front of the building to go shopping....
-->
Now I find that I still get a parking space in the front and I'm not all that spiritual anymore.
Whats funny is before I read this I was in the car with my son picking my daughter up from work. I was stopped at a stop light and remembered when I was in twi how I would say in the name of JC change to green....lol....sometimes it did and sometimes it didn't...when it did I thought gosh my believing is so there...so spiritual, ya know?
My son got a big kick out of me trying to change the light today...of course I didn't say in the name of....but he still thought it was pretty funny.
How spiritual we all were, huh? We were believing all right!!!!
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vickles
I never did get into the number thing, I thought it was kind of dumb.
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vickles
I remember someone came up to me at ROA and asked me to minister to her...I had never met her in my life. I prayed for some things that were very big deal at that time...I just knew that that is what she had.
When I was done she looked into my eyes with such disappointment. Brought me down a peg or two, I'll tell ya.
I thought I was being so spiritual. Well that taught me a lot.
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TheInvisibleDan
I think back in the daze hearing quite a few praying quite impressively - as if possessing the super-power of x-ray vision - for weakened white blood cell corpuscles.
There was apparently quite an epidemic.
Was I dreaming, - or did anyone else here happen to hear this prayer, once or twice or more throughout their cultic career?
Danny
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lindyhopper
"...and the clouds parted and the sun shown down upon our street corner, so that we could wash those cars all day..."
Was a story I once heard. I guess God was really upset about all those dirty cars in that little dirt bowl town in dirt bowl Texas. After all, when things are dirty they attract devil spirits. So keep your room, and house, and car, and clothes, and especially your undies (don't want the devil gettin in there) cleaner than the guys forehead in the front row of the auditorium after wiping LCM's spit off his face.
Did you see how I used "many ands". Its a figure.
Please save your questions for the end of my post.
I jumped on the numerics band wagon. I was also on a spiritual definition mission. They were great ways to wow everyone at the release sessions...and an easy way too.
Now? None
Not at all.
The Verd as we all know has everything that pertains to life and Godliness, which makes everything spiritual, which means that our spiritual-leaders-in-da-Verd had the right, nay the responsibility to correct us and if at all possible control our every move. "Now receive the card with your right hand, switch it to your left, and then shake with your right"...because your left hand is the hand of poo-poo wiping. You know when I graduated thousands of other people were able to make it thru without anyone telling them how to receive a diploma, yet twits felt like we needed to be hand held and spoon fed the whole way thru. We became dependent on them to tell us what to do. How to tie your shoe? I don't know get some wise council.
What they failed to tell me was to wipe with my left hand. I couldn't figure that one out on my own. lol Suckers. They want a piece of my foot? They've had it whether they knew it or not.
Hopefully they washed before they ate.
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washingtonweather
spiritual signifcance is the modern word for spiritual signs froms the middle ages!
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vickles
LOL lindy, loved your post.
Yes they did seem to want to control...even how much toilet paper to use...how to eat at a table...etc.
I always wondered why they felt they had to teach us everyday stuff...most of the stuff I already knew-like how to eat at a table sort of thing...didn't know about the toilet paper...lol
Like we were stupid...but then I still hung in there believing that these men were so spiritual...I still can't believe that I believed so much of the crap!!!!!
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Cowgirl
One thing I couldn't stand is when you'd go to the movies or watch a video with a "head honcho" and after the movie he'd pick it all apart and try to spiritualize the whole thing instead of just looking at the movie for what it was.......ENTERTAIMENT !!! Sheesh, what's up with that?
Cowgirl
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lindyhopper
I forgot about the TP Vickles.
and if you could try and take two minute showers as well. Your usually spiritually clean enough after two minutes.
:D--> or at least it keeps the spiritual water bill down to a needs basis.
My wife always smiles at my smooth way of doing things, like pealing a banana and cutting it into my cereal bowl. Thank you Way Corps training. I knew it would be good for something...like impressing the ladies
She always tells me I should have my own cooking show.
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George Aar
"I thought of this when Shaz mentioned TWI's spiritualization of 'reproof.' That's how they made us listen - they moved it from the physical domain to the spiritual, where they claimed dominion."
And not only did they then have "dominion" over us, but they also had conveniently moved the debate into an arena where nothing could be examined. Remember? Physical things can be examined, spiritual things can be "ascertained" - or some such crap.
Anyway, the long and short of it was, once the matter was moved into the "spiritual" category, the debate was over. The MOG was right, and that was that. Who were we to question GOD?
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shazdancer
Johniam, you said
That says it for me. I'd rather concentrate on what I know, and interpret things in that light, than on the invisible things. Heck, NO man knows, 'cuz they're spiritual! Unless we received revelation, we know NOTHING about spiritual matters. (And if revelation as taught by TWI is a crock, then WHAT were we and they doing?!)And like Geo said, it's tough to argue with someone who says they "know" about something you can't see, hear, or feel. "Spiritual" insight was a perfect way to lord it over others.
Show me what you DO, not how much you know.
Regards,
Shaz
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Belle
Perfect! That bears repeating. It reminds me of someone saying that people who talk about sex all the time most likely are the ones NOT getting it.
;)--> I'd rather see a sermon any day than hear one. TWI was rather verbose and bombastic when it came to spiritual matters, but terribly lacking in the "proof" department.
Vickles, I had to chuckle at your parking spot and green light spirituality. I found myself doing similar things and thinking I was so "it". GAWD, it's embarrassing now!
Satori, I do find myself thinking of teachings or the significance of numbers occasionally but I try to catch myself and dismiss the thought as quickly as I can. It's part of getting rid of waybrain for me. Good questions you asked.
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ljn698
uh oh uh oh
i think i feel a song coming on
professor?
da dum da dum dum dum
there's no 2 ways about it
when you're ripping people off
MOG's way is the only way
at it you cannot scoff
if you do you're in trouble
his mouth may start to froth
there's no 2 ways about it
when you're ripping people (ripping people) off!
everybody!
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Oakspear
The so-called spiritual significance of numbers reminds me of an example of someone over spiritualizing:
(By the way, Bullinger wrote that numbers were figures of speech used in the bible, to indicate and confirm meanings, not that these numbers would have magical significance in the "real" world)
I was once asked to sit down with the wayfers in our area to explain several ballot initiatives and referenda in the upcoming election. We had quite a few young wayfers who would be voting for the first time, and several expressed confusion over the wording of some of the things on the ballot and the reprecussions.
I started through the various initiatives, explaining what they were intended to do, and what their opponents and proponents said about them, in order that the new wayfer voters would be able to make an informed decision.
When I got to Initiative 4, a long-time grad piped up with "and we all know what the Word teaches about the number 4" and began to expound upon how the meaning of the number 4 was a clue as to the consequenses of voting for this initiative.
I let her finish, and added that the numbers were assigned randomly, and that the number had no significance whatsoever.
Sheesh
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Second James
Aw dang....you mean to tell me that there really AINT a devil spurt behind every statue????????? You've ruined my day & probably my life...LOL
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excathedra
only that little bronze statue
;)-->
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JustThinking
Exie,
I actually asked about that when they started pushing that stupid thing. What was it? $200, I think? Anyhoo, I asked if that would be considered an idol. At a leaders meeting. Hahahahahaha. Why did they NEVER learn to NOT call on me? Talk about your awkward moment...
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