For those of you "new" to Mike-ian logic. Here is the abbreviated version (so you won't have to lose your sight and mind reading all of his posts):
Mike has stated that: PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'. Mike has stated that this means we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL. Mike has stated that PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty. Mike has offered a 'Table of Challenge' (which he claims exposes things which some would prefer to keep hidden away) so that we may have access to his advanced abilities and approval. Mike has stated that Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns.
Mike has stated that betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God. You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL. Mike has stated that studying PFAL will defeat death.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled program...
Did you ever think that my self flattery was joking and could be in the same vein as Rush Limbaugh's bombastic style, i.e. radio shtick?
***
Garth,
Maybe the reason you don't like PFAL is because your reading skills are lacking?
I thought I made it pretty clear in my two posts to HCW along with my multiply addressed post above those two last night, that what I had time for then was only a preliminary warm-up. I have much more of a set of responses to HCW's two posts here. I have hardly BEGUN to discuss these matters with him.
Don't like PFAL? Is that how you interpret the fact/the why that I don't view PFAL to be God Breathed? --> I can think of many reasons far better than that as per my views re: PFAL.
Preliminary warm-up?? Chief, that's ALL you've been giving not only to HCW, but to ALL of us here at GS ever since your first post. All that, and your blind, desperate and delusional dodges. Hardly begun? Oh right, like I'm SURE HCW will really look forward to going thru a repeat of ALLLL your posts about PFAL, and winding up with no more valid understanding for your preciousssss as a result. Why not save the HD space on Paw's servers and simply refer HCW to the original posts.
None of them (vpw's editors) supported my thesis presented here, but I learned much from them all.
The people who worked the closest with vpw say you are wrong, a person who scapped some of his work to get it to fit (HCW - I can relate totally to that) says he cannot support you.
Do you all auppose that mebbe one reason Smikeol is so stubborn about this PFAL crap, is that he has been drinking way too much of Dr. David's Oxygenated Penta Water? ... One helluva lot of oxygen for the ol' grey matter between the ear balls, ya think?
Hey Mike - thanks for the recognition of the partial reality of my spoof.
Personally, I don't need HCW to validate my opinion that you are wrong, but it is interesting in that his previous posts indicate a respect for Wierwille on some level, yet he says that Wierwille did not put his own work on the same pedestal that you do.
I don't believe that PFAL is god-breathed, then again I don't believe that the bible is either.
Like you, I don't believe that English versions of the Bible are God-breathed, yet you and I depart when it comes to the originals.
Then again, because you don't have a confusing investment in the notion of a "abstract-originals/concrete-versions" conglomerate, you and I can intellectually communicate and banter in areas where invested traditionalists are emotionally horrified and some even tongue-tied with me.
I've sensed the same thing with Abigail, and the evidence is similar with her too.
Because you are more relaxed with me, you can wryly spin a spoof of what goes on in my head that actually comes much closer to the facts than the hard worked product of serious analysts bent on protecting the innocents who might stumble in what they perceive is my destructive path.
You're probably one of the few who can even read and get a laugh out of this post.
(AP) Scholars unearthed a rare English edition of Power for Abundant Living today in the ruins of ancient San Diego. As any schoolchild knows, English is a dead language that was spoken at one time in North America and other scattered parts of the world, but was supplanted by Tagalog after the Phillipine Hegemony required all public records to be in that nations language.
Before today, the only Power for Abundant Living (PFAL) versions extant are translations of translations, since there are no "originals" left. Religious scholars are therefore unsure what PFAL really means due to shoddy translations, proofreaders' oversights and outright forgeries. In fact the Japanese-Bulgarian version of PFAL has Wierwille repartedly referring to "integrity" when it is common knowledge that he had none.
PFAL scholars are busy fabricating new definitions of English words as this article goes to press
No, I have no need to protect others from you. :)--> I don't even fear you or the doctrine you propound. I don't agree with it, but I certainly don't see you as dangerous.
Heck, I survived TWI2, after that, little is scary.
Obviously there were things within PFAL that I agreed with or I never would have hung out with TWI. I probably agree with more of the doctrine than I disagree with (though certainly not everything) - it is the practice that was so screwed up.
But I also certainly don't see it as God Breathed and I certainly don't see VPW as a great man of god.
(AP) Scholars unearthed a rare English edition of _Power for Abundant Living_ today in the ruins of ancient San Diego. As any schoolchild knows, English is a dead language that was spoken at one time in North America and other scattered parts of the world, but was supplanted by Tagalog after the Phillipine Hegemony required all public records to be in that nations language."
LOL
LOL
LOL
A buddy of mine has been running a Twig in San Diego, one service each week has been in Tagalog. [his other fellowships are in English and one in Spanish] He should get a kick out of your post.
We get very nicely done CDs each week of his English fellowship.
I see English becoming more and more the lingua franca of the world every day. This is due to the successive influences of Hollywood, CNN, Microsoft, and the Internet. Nearly every educated person in the world now speaks, or can at least hear English. We're at the other end of Babel as the age is ending.
As far as fearing me and my message, I see it in other splinter people much more than here at GSC.
As far as having a concern that my message might be believed by new GSC readers, I see that here as rampant.
You complained several days ago that my qualifier on sincerity being good "...negates the fact that it is good at all. Futhermore this is not what scripture teaches. In Corinthians it talks about sincerity... the leaven to be mixed with the word."
Hey, like Dr said four times in the film class that sincerity is good, I will say the same thing. It is good, and should be present. Who would ever argue that INSINCERITY is to be sought after in self and others? Not me. Not Dr.
I will state that, based on my study of PFAL, sincerity is a wonderful thing and we should always strive to have it and avoid insincerity... except in humor, and sparingly there.
The limited context in which Dr was speaking (and that you had erroneously generalized on him) is that sincerity ALONE will not be enough to rightly divide God's Word, and that other things must be ADDED to it to obtain the truth. Dr never taught that sincerity should be subtracted from the equation. The TVT boys did, though, at times!
I am sincere in my efforts here, yet you will not count that in my favor as me being correct, will you? If you think sincerity is so wonderful all by itself, then you should recognize it in me and believe my message.
Think it through a little. Your complaint of Dr's criticism of "lone-sincerity" being insufficient was a case of you taking his words out of context.
***
You wrote: "For if sincerity was good, why didnt he say what good it brought?"
Because it's obvious what good it brings. Why didn't Dr teach that sleeping nearly every 24 hours is good? Because it's obvious.
You wrote: "This point precisely highlights the deceptiveness of the teaching of VPW, for his pupils gave him credit for being "sincere", yet he and his followers didnt want anyone engaging in there own sincerity."
Speak for yourself, please! It was only the robotic TVT adherents who abhorred sincerity. I abhor those who think that their sincerity ALONE will bring them the truth with no study, but it's that philosophy that I abhor, not the sincerity.
You wrote: "For if he could minimize (and thats precisely what he did) peoples quest and journey with God through a sincere desire to know the truth, control would follow quite emphantically. It left no openendedness with each individual believer in pursuit of God."
I agree that this happened, but it didn't stem from Dr's teachings. It was rooted in the Corpse Nazi mentality which developed contrary to Dr's teachings.
***
You wrote: "Furthermore Mike by VPW own biblically accurate standards, some of the epistles like Phillipians were addressed "to all the saints at Phillipi with the bishops and deacons, etc. Where does it say it was addressed to "other churches" as in us?"
Dr taught in the film class, and then in the books, that I Corinthians opens up in it's second verse with:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord..."
Add to this the ending of Colossians where 4:15,16 says:
" Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea."
Some scholars believe that this Laodicean epistle is actually what we now call Ephesians. I've heard that there are ancient copies in which the space where "Ephesians" is printed was left blank, and the names of various other cities was penned in, some with different colored ink.
Add to all this evidence the statements in Galatians and Acts that Paul's miistry was to the Gentiles, and the pattern emerges that all of his epistles are addressed to us.
***
You wrote: "By VPW own standard of omission and inclusions, one would have to toss this epistle out and others also. But VPW could always fit a square peg in a round hole by glossing over his own standards when it was convient, and thus included all the epistles as "to us" and demeaned the gospels. Furthermore he uses the epistle of Peter to circumcise the writings of Paul, with the "no private interpetation stuff" But wait a minute Peter was a minister of the circumcision so his letters werent written by VPW's own logic to the church at all? Nope Mike this is a real high wire act that never did cut mustard, because it never had any mustard as in sincerity for individuals lifes"
Did you know that that Peter's second epistle ends with a ringing endorsement for ALL the epistles of Paul?
Did you know that Dr's ministry ended with two entire books devoted to the Gospel records?
I sincerely urge you to spend more time studying that material which you criticize, instead of listening to the complaints of others who study too little also.
Since this is supposed to be a GENERAL thread, I'd like to comment a bit on your "First Thought" thread.
I do remember that being taught, but not so much by Dr in the AC. When I took that class in 1975, I had heard so much about from others that I kept my ears open, but heard little to none about it.
Maybe it was is in my syllabus, but I think it was largely removed by '75 from his teaching. Maybe that was because Dr saw it was being abused, or not understood well enough.
I do know for sure that Jack Kerouac was a big proponent of "first thought" and that he even used that exact phrase in describing his writing style. Maybe that's where Dr got it. Some principles that work for one side may work for the other as well.
Possibly Dr's teaching "first thought" was useful to some for some time, but he seemed to remove it by 1975. I have recently done a thorough search of Dr's 1979 AC tapes and there is NO mention of "first thought" in that class at all. Still it might have been briefly mentioned in the syllabus, but it is NOT in the "16 keys to Walking in the Spirit" list that is in that syllabus.
***
I have a John Gnagey "Learn to Draw" graphic art set from the 50's. He was a famous TV artist back then. In the instruction book he has some lines that also found their way into Dr's teachings. Dr certainly "drew" upon many sources, just like he told us. I'll have to look them up some time. They are not "first thought" lines though.
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CM
Worthy of repeating again.
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Tom Strange
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Tom Strange
For those of you "new" to Mike-ian logic. Here is the abbreviated version (so you won't have to lose your sight and mind reading all of his posts):
Mike has stated that: PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'. Mike has stated that this means we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL. Mike has stated that PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty. Mike has offered a 'Table of Challenge' (which he claims exposes things which some would prefer to keep hidden away) so that we may have access to his advanced abilities and approval. Mike has stated that Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns.
Mike has stated that betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God. You just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL. Mike has stated that studying PFAL will defeat death.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled program...
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Mike
Oh Tom!
-->
Here we go again with the paste jobs!
Did you ever think that my self flattery was joking and could be in the same vein as Rush Limbaugh's bombastic style, i.e. radio shtick?
***
Garth,
Maybe the reason you don't like PFAL is because your reading skills are lacking?
I thought I made it pretty clear in my two posts to HCW along with my multiply addressed post above those two last night, that what I had time for then was only a preliminary warm-up. I have much more of a set of responses to HCW's two posts here. I have hardly BEGUN to discuss these matters with him.
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GarthP2000
Smikeol,
My reading skills are just fine, thank you.
Don't like PFAL? Is that how you interpret the fact/the why that I don't view PFAL to be God Breathed?
--> I can think of many reasons far better than that as per my views re: PFAL.
Preliminary warm-up?? Chief, that's ALL you've been giving not only to HCW, but to ALL of us here at GS ever since your first post. All that, and your blind, desperate and delusional dodges. Hardly begun? Oh right, like I'm SURE HCW will really look forward to going thru a repeat of ALLLL your posts about PFAL, and winding up with no more valid understanding for your preciousssss as a result. Why not save the HD space on Paw's servers and simply refer HCW to the original posts.
Then wait a couple of years till he's thru.
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def59
The people who worked the closest with vpw say you are wrong, a person who scapped some of his work to get it to fit (HCW - I can relate totally to that) says he cannot support you.
How do you expect the rest of us to?
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Raf
Mike: "PFAL is God-breathed."
VPW: "No it's not."
Mike: "God oversaw the editing process."
Editors: "No, He didn't."
Mike: "PFAL says it's God-breathed."
PFAL: "No, I don't."
What's it gonna take?
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alfakat
Ghostbusters??????
Mike, Mike, Mike... ALL I SAID was that another(heteros) county was heard from and that the version varies...hardly slavering adoration of HCW...
methinks Mike doth protest TOO, TOO much....
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GarthP2000
Ya know, I just thought of something.
Do you all auppose that mebbe one reason Smikeol is so stubborn about this PFAL crap, is that he has been drinking way too much of Dr. David's Oxygenated Penta Water? ... One helluva lot of oxygen for the ol' grey matter between the ear balls, ya think?
To your health, Mike.
;)--> 
:D-->
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sky4it
Raf:
your comment:
Mike: "PFAL is God-breathed."
Wierwille: "No, it's not."
Who you gonna believe?
Good point Raf. Even Herr Dockter knew the acceptable speed limits of his steps.
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Oakspear
Hey Mike - thanks for the recognition of the partial reality of my spoof.
Personally, I don't need HCW to validate my opinion that you are wrong, but it is interesting in that his previous posts indicate a respect for Wierwille on some level, yet he says that Wierwille did not put his own work on the same pedestal that you do.
I don't believe that PFAL is god-breathed, then again I don't believe that the bible is either.
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Mike
Oakspear,
Ahh yes, what a tangled web we weave!
Like you, I don't believe that English versions of the Bible are God-breathed, yet you and I depart when it comes to the originals.
Then again, because you don't have a confusing investment in the notion of a "abstract-originals/concrete-versions" conglomerate, you and I can intellectually communicate and banter in areas where invested traditionalists are emotionally horrified and some even tongue-tied with me.
I've sensed the same thing with Abigail, and the evidence is similar with her too.
Because you are more relaxed with me, you can wryly spin a spoof of what goes on in my head that actually comes much closer to the facts than the hard worked product of serious analysts bent on protecting the innocents who might stumble in what they perceive is my destructive path.
You're probably one of the few who can even read and get a laugh out of this post.
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def59
Mike
People laugh at your posts all the time.
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Mike
I was talking about laughing WITH it!
:D-->
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Oakspear
Dateline San Diego, February 2805 C.E.
(AP) Scholars unearthed a rare English edition of Power for Abundant Living today in the ruins of ancient San Diego. As any schoolchild knows, English is a dead language that was spoken at one time in North America and other scattered parts of the world, but was supplanted by Tagalog after the Phillipine Hegemony required all public records to be in that nations language.
Before today, the only Power for Abundant Living (PFAL) versions extant are translations of translations, since there are no "originals" left. Religious scholars are therefore unsure what PFAL really means due to shoddy translations, proofreaders' oversights and outright forgeries. In fact the Japanese-Bulgarian version of PFAL has Wierwille repartedly referring to "integrity" when it is common knowledge that he had none.
PFAL scholars are busy fabricating new definitions of English words as this article goes to press
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CM
mike will always have an answer. not to the questions asked but he will always have the last word.......these days anyway.
if you want to stop, then stop he will keep going.
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Abigail
Thank you, Mike.
No, I have no need to protect others from you.
:)--> I don't even fear you or the doctrine you propound. I don't agree with it, but I certainly don't see you as dangerous.
Heck, I survived TWI2, after that, little is scary.
Obviously there were things within PFAL that I agreed with or I never would have hung out with TWI. I probably agree with more of the doctrine than I disagree with (though certainly not everything) - it is the practice that was so screwed up.
But I also certainly don't see it as God Breathed and I certainly don't see VPW as a great man of god.
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Raf
Something's been creeping into the discussion, and should be stopped:
To oppose Mike or his message is to oppose it, not to fear it or him.
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Galen
Oakspear:
"Dateline San Diego, February 2805 C.E.
(AP) Scholars unearthed a rare English edition of _Power for Abundant Living_ today in the ruins of ancient San Diego. As any schoolchild knows, English is a dead language that was spoken at one time in North America and other scattered parts of the world, but was supplanted by Tagalog after the Phillipine Hegemony required all public records to be in that nations language."
LOL
LOL
LOL
A buddy of mine has been running a Twig in San Diego, one service each week has been in Tagalog. [his other fellowships are in English and one in Spanish] He should get a kick out of your post.
We get very nicely done CDs each week of his English fellowship.
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Oakspear
glad that I could be of service
;)-->
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Mike
I see English becoming more and more the lingua franca of the world every day. This is due to the successive influences of Hollywood, CNN, Microsoft, and the Internet. Nearly every educated person in the world now speaks, or can at least hear English. We're at the other end of Babel as the age is ending.
As far as fearing me and my message, I see it in other splinter people much more than here at GSC.
As far as having a concern that my message might be believed by new GSC readers, I see that here as rampant.
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Mike
sky4it,
You complained several days ago that my qualifier on sincerity being good "...negates the fact that it is good at all. Futhermore this is not what scripture teaches. In Corinthians it talks about sincerity... the leaven to be mixed with the word."
Hey, like Dr said four times in the film class that sincerity is good, I will say the same thing. It is good, and should be present. Who would ever argue that INSINCERITY is to be sought after in self and others? Not me. Not Dr.
I will state that, based on my study of PFAL, sincerity is a wonderful thing and we should always strive to have it and avoid insincerity... except in humor, and sparingly there.
The limited context in which Dr was speaking (and that you had erroneously generalized on him) is that sincerity ALONE will not be enough to rightly divide God's Word, and that other things must be ADDED to it to obtain the truth. Dr never taught that sincerity should be subtracted from the equation. The TVT boys did, though, at times!
I am sincere in my efforts here, yet you will not count that in my favor as me being correct, will you? If you think sincerity is so wonderful all by itself, then you should recognize it in me and believe my message.
Think it through a little. Your complaint of Dr's criticism of "lone-sincerity" being insufficient was a case of you taking his words out of context.
***
You wrote: "For if sincerity was good, why didnt he say what good it brought?"
Because it's obvious what good it brings. Why didn't Dr teach that sleeping nearly every 24 hours is good? Because it's obvious.
You wrote: "This point precisely highlights the deceptiveness of the teaching of VPW, for his pupils gave him credit for being "sincere", yet he and his followers didnt want anyone engaging in there own sincerity."
Speak for yourself, please! It was only the robotic TVT adherents who abhorred sincerity. I abhor those who think that their sincerity ALONE will bring them the truth with no study, but it's that philosophy that I abhor, not the sincerity.
You wrote: "For if he could minimize (and thats precisely what he did) peoples quest and journey with God through a sincere desire to know the truth, control would follow quite emphantically. It left no openendedness with each individual believer in pursuit of God."
I agree that this happened, but it didn't stem from Dr's teachings. It was rooted in the Corpse Nazi mentality which developed contrary to Dr's teachings.
***
You wrote: "Furthermore Mike by VPW own biblically accurate standards, some of the epistles like Phillipians were addressed "to all the saints at Phillipi with the bishops and deacons, etc. Where does it say it was addressed to "other churches" as in us?"
Dr taught in the film class, and then in the books, that I Corinthians opens up in it's second verse with:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord..."
Add to this the ending of Colossians where 4:15,16 says:
" Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea."
Some scholars believe that this Laodicean epistle is actually what we now call Ephesians. I've heard that there are ancient copies in which the space where "Ephesians" is printed was left blank, and the names of various other cities was penned in, some with different colored ink.
Add to all this evidence the statements in Galatians and Acts that Paul's miistry was to the Gentiles, and the pattern emerges that all of his epistles are addressed to us.
***
You wrote: "By VPW own standard of omission and inclusions, one would have to toss this epistle out and others also. But VPW could always fit a square peg in a round hole by glossing over his own standards when it was convient, and thus included all the epistles as "to us" and demeaned the gospels. Furthermore he uses the epistle of Peter to circumcise the writings of Paul, with the "no private interpetation stuff" But wait a minute Peter was a minister of the circumcision so his letters werent written by VPW's own logic to the church at all? Nope Mike this is a real high wire act that never did cut mustard, because it never had any mustard as in sincerity for individuals lifes"
Did you know that that Peter's second epistle ends with a ringing endorsement for ALL the epistles of Paul?
Did you know that Dr's ministry ended with two entire books devoted to the Gospel records?
I sincerely urge you to spend more time studying that material which you criticize, instead of listening to the complaints of others who study too little also.
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Mike
shazdancer,
Since this is supposed to be a GENERAL thread, I'd like to comment a bit on your "First Thought" thread.
I do remember that being taught, but not so much by Dr in the AC. When I took that class in 1975, I had heard so much about from others that I kept my ears open, but heard little to none about it.
Maybe it was is in my syllabus, but I think it was largely removed by '75 from his teaching. Maybe that was because Dr saw it was being abused, or not understood well enough.
I do know for sure that Jack Kerouac was a big proponent of "first thought" and that he even used that exact phrase in describing his writing style. Maybe that's where Dr got it. Some principles that work for one side may work for the other as well.
Possibly Dr's teaching "first thought" was useful to some for some time, but he seemed to remove it by 1975. I have recently done a thorough search of Dr's 1979 AC tapes and there is NO mention of "first thought" in that class at all. Still it might have been briefly mentioned in the syllabus, but it is NOT in the "16 keys to Walking in the Spirit" list that is in that syllabus.
***
I have a John Gnagey "Learn to Draw" graphic art set from the 50's. He was a famous TV artist back then. In the instruction book he has some lines that also found their way into Dr's teachings. Dr certainly "drew" upon many sources, just like he told us. I'll have to look them up some time. They are not "first thought" lines though.
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Tom Strange
Mike... the only thing scary about any of this is how seriously you take yourself...
...and how surprised you seem that no one else does...
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