Thanks Laleo. It was intended to be, mostly. ;)-->
I do agree with you, just from a purely honest standpoint. Like you I don't care all that much what JAL does, or doesn't do, or who he does, or doesn't do. It's his bidness. I consider him a friend, but haven't seen him in years. It's just weird, if you know even a little bit how that Old Time Way Thinking goes....the "sidelines" comment, the cha-cha about false rumors, which sound exactly like the Sterling Truth That Falls From the Pen of He Who Posted.
Y'know, whaddya gonna do? :P--> I guess some people, you could ask them what day it was and not get a straight answer. It'd be Thursday and you'd end up thinking it was Saturday by their answer. Such are the ways of the world.
John shame on you. Who are you to put false witness before brothers and sisters? You were decieved before returned to the vomit. Once a cult leaders now what are you? Oh doing the work for God. What did you call it your ministry. I taught you to be a bit of a hole before I guess I need not change my opinion.
Hey I got it playing! It doesn't sound like the "Irish Rovers" though. But this is fine. I love this song. I'm listening to it now. I always start to cry at the end of the song when the unicorns don't make it on the ark!!!! :(--> Whaaaa!!!!!!
Omg they added a new verse.............
omg
THEY grew wings from the rain and now thier okay!!!
"If you are one of those ex-Way folks still sitting on the sidelines taking potshots at me and CES http://www.CESonline.org without any current firsthand knowledge of my heart and life or our ministry, bless you."
Now why would I or anyone else take offense to that statement unless the shoe fitted? .....hmmmmmmm.....a simple question that I am sure someone wearing the shoe will come up with a thoroughly logical rationale to twist to suit their purposes and use to tear apart all that stand in the way of their stronghold
Or maybe he said it like Whoopi Goldberg at the end of Sister Act. You know what I mean? Bless you! You could almost see her giving the guy the finger when she said it.
I wonder if he rolled his eyes after he typed "bless you".
Utilizing cursory subtextual analyis, I immediately thought of another phrase that goes, @#$@ you! I'd stake my reputation as a linguistic whatcha-ma-callit that I have decoded the greatness of John's exhortation to the church at Greasespot.
Edited by satori001
While it's (as others have said) none of my business, there is a sort of karmic justice when those who spent a lot of their time telling other people what was best for their lives demonstrate an inability to handle their own.
There is none perfect except Jesus...you know that better than anyone here.
I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives....he had/has the love to stand up and proclaim what he knows to be the truth regardless of his shortcomings and the dead corpse we all carry around with us (Romans...I find then a law...the things I would not ..those I do...and the things I would those I do not.....) Remember those words at all?
Does the fact that I or you or JAL falls short in any area of our life preclude us from voicing what we believe to be the truth of God's Word?
And when the adversary beats us or one of our brothers or sisters in any area of life should we as a body find some comfort in "karmic justice"?
I really wish you could hear what I am saying here....not because I am better than you...etc etc etc
Yeah, satori, I distinctly heard the sound of dust falling, shaken off of sandals....
Dear Al Poole,
The last time JAL posted, I did take him up on his offer to email him privately. Even privately, his emails came off as invitations to join CES. When I said I was not interested, I got a quick "God bless," and the correpondence was over.
Yes, it's much easier to preach to the choir, than to get down and be "real" with the rest of us.
I have aquitted myself from commenting on these type of threads but I just got slain in the spirit to do so :D-->
Dart quote
"There is none perfect except Jesus...you know that better than anyone here.
I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives....he had/has the love to stand up and proclaim what he knows to be the truth regardless of his shortcomings and the dead corpse we all carry around with us (Romans...I find then a law...the things I would not ..those I do...and the things I would those I do not.....) Remember those words at all?"
________________________
Sorry I don't buy it. JAL is nothing more than a traveling medicine man selling bogus potions and serums.
We have every right to judge peoples actions. We do have courts in the US last I looked. We still have judges sitting on our benches making judgements over peoples actions every day. Last I heard you have to appear before a judge to get a divorce, yes? We are a nation of laws to protect the innocent. If you drive thru a stoplight and you hit someone and I see it I become a witness and a reliable referance to the facts even though I am not perfect. If I testify as a witness of your actions I am not violating any of Gods laws. I'm a witness.
you said "I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives..'
You obviously never had him as a LC as I did back in the late 70s in NY. He towed the company line and hurt many people telling them how to live their lives. He spouted the poison of TWI and thought he was bigger than life. He spoke TWI interpretation of the Word and was abusive as most TWI leadership were. He spent his TWI years kissing VPs arse touting TWI doctrines only to leave and attack VP and his doctrines touting CES doctrines as the all truth since leaving. He's affixed on being right in doctrine I guess.
Maybe someday he'll realize how boxed in he is to bible jibble and fundamentalism if he gets a real job and works for a living for once in his life. As a human being he's probably a really good dude as a bible teacher he sucks, he sets a poor example by his actions.
Dartanian--what way ministry were you in?? in the twi most of us were in, higher-ups routinely gave out all kinds of orders from the throne as well as opinons on all things, sundry and mundane. JAL simply is not one of us; it is not fair , in his mind, to go through the same. ...not that anyone here is ordering him to do anything but we are certainly not dancing to the old twi "Do as I say, not as I do" tune any longer.
If you do not "get" that, you were in a different way ministry.....
There is none perfect except Jesus...you know that better than anyone here.
--> Why would I know that better than anyone here? -->
quote:
I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives....
Do I know you? How do you know what Lynn did or didn't tell me? --> Perhaps you don't recognize Lynn's telling of others how to run their lives because you are so free with the advice yourself.
quote:
he had/has the love to stand up and proclaim what he knows to be the truth regardless of his shortcomings and the dead corpse we all carry around with us (Romans...I find then a law...the things I would not ..those I do...and the things I would those I do not.....) Remember those words at all?
I don't believe those words...I do not carry a dead corpse around with me.
quote:
Does the fact that I or you or JAL falls short in any area of our life preclude us from voicing what we believe to be the truth of God's Word?
Nope. We can all say what we want...which is what I was doing.
quote:
And when the adversary beats us or one of our brothers or sisters in any area of life should we as a body find some comfort in "karmic justice"?
I didn't mention "comfort". Karma is not a provider of comfort, it just is (or isn't)
quote:
I really wish you could hear what I am saying here....not because I am better than you...etc etc etc
One of the single most starting moments I've experienced in terms of spiritual growth since leaving TWI was the day that it dawned on me.
It dawned on me that the day when I stand at the Judgement seat of Christ, I'd be alone. There would bo no John Lynn's, or LCM's, or VPW, or even Mommy or Daddy or even Satan himself standing there with me as I gave account for my actions in MY life, MY decisions.
That changed the way I see most everything when it comes to what anyone else did TO me.
It also never ceases to amaze me that people who got involved w/TWI in search for God, to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries, so readily abandon the same word of God when it comes to their present conduct.
Apparently some have either forgotten that fact or perhaps they no longer care about that.
Somehow the crimes, or sins of others justify people in abandoning what they DO know of how God says they should conduct their own lives.
Do you really want to stand before God and give account as to why you "crucify" and judge and "spit on" and deride anybody else's life?
Don't you know that if it was EVER your hearts desire to REALLY know God and have an intimate relationship with Him and you have abandoned that because you encountered a "snake oil salesman" along YOUR travels; it is YOU who have given up YOUR power to the "evil one?"
The traveling salesman still "wins."
No matter HOW right you are in what you say about how wrong someone else WAS or IS in what THEY did or do; it makes YOU look bad when you do it like has been done here on this thread.
When you walk in mud your feet get dirty, no matter how clean your shirt is. When you sling mud your hands get dirty, no matter how clean your face is. When you spew vomit out of your mouth is makes YOUR breath STINK.
This is one dirty, stinking thread.
If the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't, don't try to cram it on.
I was actually with you on the "accountability" stuff. But when you started talking about dirt, vomit, spit, mud, and stench, you lost me. Please be specific in your reproof.
What statements on this thread are you responding to?
It also never ceases to amaze me that people who got involved w/TWI in search for God, to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries, so readily abandon the same word of God when it comes to their present conduct.
It cuts both ways, HCW. It never ceases to amaze me how many people still tenaciously hang onto the dubious tenets of Wierwille's homebrewed religion, even after having proved by their own experiences that it simply doesn't work.
There's no limit to the ridiculous crap that people will believe, astrology, numerology, feng shui, wicca, Islam, and, of course, our own favorite cult - WayWorld. I don't think it should be that surprising that eventually some of the adherents finally wake up and start thinking. It isn't to me, anyhow...
Speaking for myself, I know that if I wanted to believe the tirade about TWI teaching the Word like it hasn't since the 1st century, I'd go back to twig and/or listen to Smikeol.
Sorry pal, but my mental freedom is far too important to me to do that garbage again. And if that is 'abandoning the Word of God', then I don't think that this deity is so hot after all.
This thread started with a simple question about JAL's marital status and involvement in CES.
Amazing how far a thead can denigrate! Worse than sharks!
quote:
Here's a guy who has made his "living" for decades telling others how to live their lives - teaching, counseling, exhorting, reproving... leading by example? What's wrong with that picture?
That's all it took........ and we're OFF....
The implication that because he has divorced that he doesn't practice his beliefs, or his belief system is flawed. Once again... do you know the details of why he's divorced? Do you know ANYTHING at all about the details??? And since when is it YOUR business anyway???
I was going to go through this thread and address all of the vitreolic posts but I type so so it would take me all day. So I'll forego that inclination.
I'll leave it at this... HCW was right on the mark. Some of you have so much pride that even when you KNOW you're DEAD wrong you still won't admit it. Others of you are your own God now and will be till you die.
All of us have that right ... to be wrong, and to be prideful, and to spout off their opinion. To those who have "gotten it off their chest," their thoughts and feelings about JAL... I say "well now don't you feel better!" isn't that special!!
.... if the shoe fits.... Oh... stupid me... you wouldn't know if it fit anyway.
It also never ceases to amaze me that people who got involved w/TWI in search for God, to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries, so readily abandon the same word of God when it comes to their present conduct.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! in search of God's Word? Thats not why I got into TWI. I was told by the 70s leadership that thats why I came to TWI but as I recall in reality I got excited over all the hot hippie babes I met. :D--> -->
"to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries,"
taught? was it all the cursing, namecalling, threats,, the physical, sexual and emotional abuse that these so called leaders gave out that seems to turn you on? VP getting BJs in the motorcoach...LCM getting his predatory sexual appetite fed by the many vunerable women he abused? What century are you refering back to that taught the Word with this type of malicious hypocracy?
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laleo
If you take out all the insults, mischaracterizations, innuendo, self-congratulation, and self-promotion, it's what he said.
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Raf
I guess.
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socks
Thanks Laleo. It was intended to be, mostly.
;)-->
I do agree with you, just from a purely honest standpoint. Like you I don't care all that much what JAL does, or doesn't do, or who he does, or doesn't do. It's his bidness. I consider him a friend, but haven't seen him in years. It's just weird, if you know even a little bit how that Old Time Way Thinking goes....the "sidelines" comment, the cha-cha about false rumors, which sound exactly like the Sterling Truth That Falls From the Pen of He Who Posted.
Y'know, whaddya gonna do?
:P--> I guess some people, you could ask them what day it was and not get a straight answer. It'd be Thursday and you'd end up thinking it was Saturday by their answer. Such are the ways of the world.
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Danny
John shame on you. Who are you to put false witness before brothers and sisters? You were decieved before returned to the vomit. Once a cult leaders now what are you? Oh doing the work for God. What did you call it your ministry. I taught you to be a bit of a hole before I guess I need not change my opinion.
.
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RottieGrrrl
Hey I got it playing! It doesn't sound like the "Irish Rovers" though. But this is fine. I love this song. I'm listening to it now. I always start to cry at the end of the song when the unicorns don't make it on the ark!!!!
:(--> Whaaaa!!!!!!
Omg they added a new verse.............
omg
THEY grew wings from the rain and now thier okay!!!
Oh this song is precious.
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Dartanian3m
JAL SAID
"If you are one of those ex-Way folks still sitting on the sidelines taking potshots at me and CES http://www.CESonline.org without any current firsthand knowledge of my heart and life or our ministry, bless you."
Now why would I or anyone else take offense to that statement unless the shoe fitted? .....hmmmmmmm.....a simple question that I am sure someone wearing the shoe will come up with a thoroughly logical rationale to twist to suit their purposes and use to tear apart all that stand in the way of their stronghold
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Jim
I wonder if he rolled his eyes after he typed "bless you".
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Raf
I detected an eyeroll.
Or maybe he said it like Whoopi Goldberg at the end of Sister Act. You know what I mean? Bless you! You could almost see her giving the guy the finger when she said it.
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GarthP2000
Raf,
That's odd. I detected an eggroll.
.....((crickets chirping)) ..... Never mind!
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satori001
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Oakspear
While it's (as others have said) none of my business, there is a sort of karmic justice when those who spent a lot of their time telling other people what was best for their lives demonstrate an inability to handle their own.
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Dartanian3m
Oakspear
Why would you make a remark like that?
There is none perfect except Jesus...you know that better than anyone here.
I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives....he had/has the love to stand up and proclaim what he knows to be the truth regardless of his shortcomings and the dead corpse we all carry around with us (Romans...I find then a law...the things I would not ..those I do...and the things I would those I do not.....) Remember those words at all?
Does the fact that I or you or JAL falls short in any area of our life preclude us from voicing what we believe to be the truth of God's Word?
And when the adversary beats us or one of our brothers or sisters in any area of life should we as a body find some comfort in "karmic justice"?
I really wish you could hear what I am saying here....not because I am better than you...etc etc etc
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shazdancer
Yeah, satori, I distinctly heard the sound of dust falling, shaken off of sandals....
Dear Al Poole,
The last time JAL posted, I did take him up on his offer to email him privately. Even privately, his emails came off as invitations to join CES. When I said I was not interested, I got a quick "God bless," and the correpondence was over.
Yes, it's much easier to preach to the choir, than to get down and be "real" with the rest of us.
Regards,
Shaz
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Hills Bro
I have aquitted myself from commenting on these type of threads but I just got slain in the spirit to do so
:D-->
Dart quote
"There is none perfect except Jesus...you know that better than anyone here.
I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives....he had/has the love to stand up and proclaim what he knows to be the truth regardless of his shortcomings and the dead corpse we all carry around with us (Romans...I find then a law...the things I would not ..those I do...and the things I would those I do not.....) Remember those words at all?"
________________________
Sorry I don't buy it. JAL is nothing more than a traveling medicine man selling bogus potions and serums.
We have every right to judge peoples actions. We do have courts in the US last I looked. We still have judges sitting on our benches making judgements over peoples actions every day. Last I heard you have to appear before a judge to get a divorce, yes? We are a nation of laws to protect the innocent. If you drive thru a stoplight and you hit someone and I see it I become a witness and a reliable referance to the facts even though I am not perfect. If I testify as a witness of your actions I am not violating any of Gods laws. I'm a witness.
you said "I don't recall JAL telling me or you how to run our lives..'
You obviously never had him as a LC as I did back in the late 70s in NY. He towed the company line and hurt many people telling them how to live their lives. He spouted the poison of TWI and thought he was bigger than life. He spoke TWI interpretation of the Word and was abusive as most TWI leadership were. He spent his TWI years kissing VPs arse touting TWI doctrines only to leave and attack VP and his doctrines touting CES doctrines as the all truth since leaving. He's affixed on being right in doctrine I guess.
Maybe someday he'll realize how boxed in he is to bible jibble and fundamentalism if he gets a real job and works for a living for once in his life. As a human being he's probably a really good dude as a bible teacher he sucks, he sets a poor example by his actions.
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socks
Religion is like a tax. Have you paid the iRs?
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alfakat
Dartanian--what way ministry were you in?? in the twi most of us were in, higher-ups routinely gave out all kinds of orders from the throne as well as opinons on all things, sundry and mundane. JAL simply is not one of us; it is not fair , in his mind, to go through the same. ...not that anyone here is ordering him to do anything but we are certainly not dancing to the old twi "Do as I say, not as I do" tune any longer.
If you do not "get" that, you were in a different way ministry.....
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Oakspear
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HCW
One of the single most starting moments I've experienced in terms of spiritual growth since leaving TWI was the day that it dawned on me.
It dawned on me that the day when I stand at the Judgement seat of Christ, I'd be alone. There would bo no John Lynn's, or LCM's, or VPW, or even Mommy or Daddy or even Satan himself standing there with me as I gave account for my actions in MY life, MY decisions.
That changed the way I see most everything when it comes to what anyone else did TO me.
It also never ceases to amaze me that people who got involved w/TWI in search for God, to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries, so readily abandon the same word of God when it comes to their present conduct.
Apparently some have either forgotten that fact or perhaps they no longer care about that.
Somehow the crimes, or sins of others justify people in abandoning what they DO know of how God says they should conduct their own lives.
Do you really want to stand before God and give account as to why you "crucify" and judge and "spit on" and deride anybody else's life?
Don't you know that if it was EVER your hearts desire to REALLY know God and have an intimate relationship with Him and you have abandoned that because you encountered a "snake oil salesman" along YOUR travels; it is YOU who have given up YOUR power to the "evil one?"
The traveling salesman still "wins."
No matter HOW right you are in what you say about how wrong someone else WAS or IS in what THEY did or do; it makes YOU look bad when you do it like has been done here on this thread.
When you walk in mud your feet get dirty, no matter how clean your shirt is. When you sling mud your hands get dirty, no matter how clean your face is. When you spew vomit out of your mouth is makes YOUR breath STINK.
This is one dirty, stinking thread.
If the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't, don't try to cram it on.
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laleo
HCW:
I was actually with you on the "accountability" stuff. But when you started talking about dirt, vomit, spit, mud, and stench, you lost me. Please be specific in your reproof.
What statements on this thread are you responding to?
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George Aar
It cuts both ways, HCW. It never ceases to amaze me how many people still tenaciously hang onto the dubious tenets of Wierwille's homebrewed religion, even after having proved by their own experiences that it simply doesn't work.
There's no limit to the ridiculous crap that people will believe, astrology, numerology, feng shui, wicca, Islam, and, of course, our own favorite cult - WayWorld. I don't think it should be that surprising that eventually some of the adherents finally wake up and start thinking. It isn't to me, anyhow...
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GarthP2000
I agree with George, HCW.
Speaking for myself, I know that if I wanted to believe the tirade about TWI teaching the Word like it hasn't since the 1st century, I'd go back to twig and/or listen to Smikeol.
Sorry pal, but my mental freedom is far too important to me to do that garbage again. And if that is 'abandoning the Word of God', then I don't think that this deity is so hot after all.
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shazdancer
Aw, George, not feng shui! Say it isn't so!
Okay, I'll put the furniture back the way it was.
***sigh***
;)-->
Shaz
Note to HCW: I'm not wearing your boot.
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Al Poole
VERY Well said H
This thread started with a simple question about JAL's marital status and involvement in CES.
Amazing how far a thead can denigrate! Worse than sharks!
That's all it took........ and we're OFF....
The implication that because he has divorced that he doesn't practice his beliefs, or his belief system is flawed. Once again... do you know the details of why he's divorced? Do you know ANYTHING at all about the details??? And since when is it YOUR business anyway???
I was going to go through this thread and address all of the vitreolic posts but I type so so it would take me all day. So I'll forego that inclination.
I'll leave it at this... HCW was right on the mark. Some of you have so much pride that even when you KNOW you're DEAD wrong you still won't admit it. Others of you are your own God now and will be till you die.
All of us have that right ... to be wrong, and to be prideful, and to spout off their opinion. To those who have "gotten it off their chest," their thoughts and feelings about JAL... I say "well now don't you feel better!" isn't that special!!
.... if the shoe fits.... Oh... stupid me... you wouldn't know if it fit anyway.
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Hills Bro
HAHAHAHAHA!!! in search of God's Word? Thats not why I got into TWI. I was told by the 70s leadership that thats why I came to TWI but as I recall in reality I got excited over all the hot hippie babes I met.
:D--> 
-->
"to learn His word as it hadn't been taught for centuries,"
taught? was it all the cursing, namecalling, threats,, the physical, sexual and emotional abuse that these so called leaders gave out that seems to turn you on? VP getting BJs in the motorcoach...LCM getting his predatory sexual appetite fed by the many vunerable women he abused? What century are you refering back to that taught the Word with this type of malicious hypocracy?
Edited by Hills BroLink to comment
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