750 dollars??? WOOHOOOO I wonder what my reel to reel classes are worth....I wonder if they even play or if anybody has the equipment top play them on anymore....
"Anybody out there have a copy of the original class (PFAL)? I remember it was in tape format and, of course, in video format. So many folks left TWI with lots of stuff & materials, I figure somebody out there has a copy of the class. If you do, or you know someone who does, please private topic me!"
I got my copy from The Way West incorporated Limb Office in 1986. I did not pay any money for it.
I have overseen the copying of it, though I have never seen it 'sold' for any amount of money. Nor have I seen anyone charged any amount of money to sit through a class, since we 'left' TWI the last time.
I no longer have the setup to burn DVDs, and I currently have enough other pokers in the fire, such that I have no planns to get the gear to be burning any more copies at this time.
A dear friend of mine, is envolved with the running of PFAL classes around the country and he recently sent me a 'better' rendered copy on DVD. He was the one who told me that the other day they actually had 10 PFAL classes running at the same time in various fellowships around the country.
Where are you located? you may have a functioning ministry near you that already is running a class. [granted I am not personally tapped into any of those ministrys, but some of those people do frequent GreaseSpot Cafe. They commonly do not say much, for the amount of manure piled onto them if they do] I would suspect that by posting your request here, someone may be contacting you either soon, or eventually. :-)
Motorhead and Galen, I was just kidding before, I don't know of anyone charging anything for PFAL. Don't know if it's legal though, does anyone? I thought PFAL was copyrighted?
He was the one who told me that the other day they actually had 10 PFAL classes running at the same time in various fellowships around the country.
PFAL RULES!
Happy Weekend, one and all!
10 classes nationwide ! Wow. Guess we'll
have to reprint some of those green cards.
But hey ..How many people per class ? It doesn't count if its (as I strongly suspect) former wayfers taking a trip down memory lane or the children of former wayfers who are being roped into viewing it....
Tell me what you think of VPW and I'll tell you how far you are going to get in the Word.
Does TWI still own the PFAL copyrights? I had heard that they were transferred to Geer during the mid-80s.
JT
I believe that Geer's group had copyrights for use in Great Britain transferred to them, while TWI retained copyrights for the U.S. - I don't know for sure, I've heard different versions, but nothing definitive - both sides have an axe to grind and of course interpret events in their own way
Running the class for free would not violate copyright law, just like watching a DVD at home and or reading a book is legal; but copying it, whether you actually own the copy you have in your possession or not, is illegal.
TWI always claimed that they owned the physical copies of the class, and that they had the right to reclaim them when the holders no longer stood with them. This sounds right to me, although several offshoots and at least one GS poster kept their copies with a clear conscience.
I can't imagine TWI considering the tapes as the property of whoever had possession of them, although it could have been something that they assumed, and didn't properly document. I'm sure that TWI's leaders never imagined the mass exodus that occurred in the late 80's.
In Chris G's POP Dog and Pony show at the Way Nash in late '86 he explained the arrangments he had made between the Way of Europe and the Way International. One of his big complaints was how the W of E's class and bookstore orders were mishandled and the lousy level of service they got. So he "said" he made a contractual agreement to outright "own" complete rights to print, copy, distribute and use all of the Way's classes and publications. He didn't want to mess around anymore getting his stuff from New Knoxville so he cut the cord with them. At that point they had no claim or control over what he did with them. This was to prevent any "hindrance" of the Word moving and continuing in Eurpope.
I never saw the paperwork and never spoke to him directly about his arrangments. I wasn't interested in hooking on to his train just so I could get Way materials and to avoid the BOT's. I wanted to avoid them all, so I didn't pursue it any further.
But - I have heard from some people over the years that they got materials from him, which may have been direct or from the Way of E's bookstore. That includes copies of PFAL, so I've been told.
The story goes that according to his arrangment, that wasn't illegal because he had the right to do that with them. So people in the U.S. could have copies of the classes that came from Europe and not be in violation of the Way's copyrights here because they got a "legal" copy from CG's gang, or whoever ended up administering the rights for them over there.
Supposedly this was all done in the interests of keeping "the Word alive" for future generations.
As far as charging for the class when it's run from a Euro copy, I have an ever so humble opinion on that. It wouldn't surprise me at all that someone would try to restart the PFAL money machine and crank out a few bucks for themselves. For the movement of the Word, of course, naturally.
But the few times I've heard about PFAL being run from these Euro copies there's been no or little money involved and it's done by people who just want to run PFAL because they believe it's worthwhile. That's just what I've heard of, a small sampling I'm sure because a lot of people were scrambling in 86-87 to get everything they thought they'd need if Way World U.S.A. imploded, exploded and/or emulsified. Which of course it was doing and did.
I suppose Galen, that the term "dog and pony show" can be applied to many a different "show" where lots of sunshine is blown up the audience's arses, and where the truth is coated over with untruths. I was at all of the clergy meetings and damage control meetings concerning POP, and I think that the term is very apropos, imho.
I do not think that the term is used only in military situations...
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oldiesman
Motorhead, last I heard bootleg copies of PFAL were in the $500-$750 range.
How much do you want to spend?
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rascal
750 dollars??? WOOHOOOO I wonder what my reel to reel classes are worth....I wonder if they even play or if anybody has the equipment top play them on anymore....
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Ham
Rascal- I repaired a couple of those old things in the last year or so.. built like boatanchors, probably never really die.
Reel to reels- oughta be good for at least a couple a grand you'd think..
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diazbro
someone would have to give me at least $1,000 to watch PFAL again.
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Galen
motorhead:
"Anybody out there have a copy of the original class (PFAL)? I remember it was in tape format and, of course, in video format. So many folks left TWI with lots of stuff & materials, I figure somebody out there has a copy of the class. If you do, or you know someone who does, please private topic me!"
I got my copy from The Way West incorporated Limb Office in 1986. I did not pay any money for it.
I have overseen the copying of it, though I have never seen it 'sold' for any amount of money. Nor have I seen anyone charged any amount of money to sit through a class, since we 'left' TWI the last time.
I no longer have the setup to burn DVDs, and I currently have enough other pokers in the fire, such that I have no planns to get the gear to be burning any more copies at this time.
A dear friend of mine, is envolved with the running of PFAL classes around the country and he recently sent me a 'better' rendered copy on DVD. He was the one who told me that the other day they actually had 10 PFAL classes running at the same time in various fellowships around the country.
Where are you located? you may have a functioning ministry near you that already is running a class. [granted I am not personally tapped into any of those ministrys, but some of those people do frequent GreaseSpot Cafe. They commonly do not say much, for the amount of manure piled onto them if they do] I would suspect that by posting your request here, someone may be contacting you either soon, or eventually. :-)
Bless you.
:-)
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oldiesman
Motorhead and Galen, I was just kidding before, I don't know of anyone charging anything for PFAL. Don't know if it's legal though, does anyone? I thought PFAL was copyrighted?
Anyway, let me know what you find out.
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Paradiseden
I would make a $500.00 donation to obtain a copy of the PFAL class on DVD or VHS.
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Ham
"Donation" ha ha ha ha.. hey, they wouldn't be selling it now, would they? Heh heh.
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JustThinking
Does TWI still own the PFAL copyrights? I had heard that they were transferred to Geer during the mid-80s.
JT
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Ham
"Required" "Donation" ha ha ha ha ha...
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Ham
Probably more than all the WAP classes added up run by TWI for a whole friggin year, heh heh.
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Ham
I can almost imagine the look on ole Rosies face- brrrrrrrrr. Ha ha ha ha ha..
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Ham
I know you can't even accept donations Galen, but the idea is funny, to me at least.
I just remember some of the dancing around we did in the good old days- "do you charge for the class?"
"Well, no, we just have required donation levels..."
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oldiesman
PFAL RULES!
Happy Weekend, one and all!
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alfakat
OM why not run one yoseff, if'n you are SO sold on it???????
--> 
--> 
;)-->
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diazbro
10 classes nationwide ! Wow. Guess we'll
have to reprint some of those green cards.
But hey ..How many people per class ? It doesn't count if its (as I strongly suspect) former wayfers taking a trip down memory lane or the children of former wayfers who are being roped into viewing it....
Tell me what you think of VPW and I'll tell you how far you are going to get in the Word.
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Oakspear
Running the class for free would not violate copyright law, just like watching a DVD at home and or reading a book is legal; but copying it, whether you actually own the copy you have in your possession or not, is illegal.
TWI always claimed that they owned the physical copies of the class, and that they had the right to reclaim them when the holders no longer stood with them. This sounds right to me, although several offshoots and at least one GS poster kept their copies with a clear conscience.
I can't imagine TWI considering the tapes as the property of whoever had possession of them, although it could have been something that they assumed, and didn't properly document. I'm sure that TWI's leaders never imagined the mass exodus that occurred in the late 80's.
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WeWereScammed
PFAL DROOLS!
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WordWolf
For a lot less money,
you can get BG Leonard's class,
of which pfal was a bad xerox without any toner.
It even includes Henry Belocco, Maggie Muggins and Johnny Jumpup.
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socks
In Chris G's POP Dog and Pony show at the Way Nash in late '86 he explained the arrangments he had made between the Way of Europe and the Way International. One of his big complaints was how the W of E's class and bookstore orders were mishandled and the lousy level of service they got. So he "said" he made a contractual agreement to outright "own" complete rights to print, copy, distribute and use all of the Way's classes and publications. He didn't want to mess around anymore getting his stuff from New Knoxville so he cut the cord with them. At that point they had no claim or control over what he did with them. This was to prevent any "hindrance" of the Word moving and continuing in Eurpope.
I never saw the paperwork and never spoke to him directly about his arrangments. I wasn't interested in hooking on to his train just so I could get Way materials and to avoid the BOT's. I wanted to avoid them all, so I didn't pursue it any further.
But - I have heard from some people over the years that they got materials from him, which may have been direct or from the Way of E's bookstore. That includes copies of PFAL, so I've been told.
The story goes that according to his arrangment, that wasn't illegal because he had the right to do that with them. So people in the U.S. could have copies of the classes that came from Europe and not be in violation of the Way's copyrights here because they got a "legal" copy from CG's gang, or whoever ended up administering the rights for them over there.
Supposedly this was all done in the interests of keeping "the Word alive" for future generations.
As far as charging for the class when it's run from a Euro copy, I have an ever so humble opinion on that. It wouldn't surprise me at all that someone would try to restart the PFAL money machine and crank out a few bucks for themselves. For the movement of the Word, of course, naturally.
But the few times I've heard about PFAL being run from these Euro copies there's been no or little money involved and it's done by people who just want to run PFAL because they believe it's worthwhile. That's just what I've heard of, a small sampling I'm sure because a lot of people were scrambling in 86-87 to get everything they thought they'd need if Way World U.S.A. imploded, exploded and/or emulsified. Which of course it was doing and did.
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Galen
WordWolf:
"For a lot less money, you can get BG Leonard's class, ... "
Really? Do you have it?
I have known a few who have taken it, but not in this area. I thought that is was still very closely held by it's followers.
:-)
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WordWolf
I don't but other GSC'ers have taken his classes.
It's easy to find in a Google search, so I hardly think of it in the
same category as the clandestine pfal classes-or the equivalent
classes derived from pfal run by the splinter organizations.
(BTW,
those classes are derived from pfal which was derived from BG Leonard's
class, so I think people who want to take THOSE classes should look
into Leonard's as well.)
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Galen
WordWolf:
"For a lot less money, you can get BG Leonard's class, ... "
According to their website [which politely asks us not to link back to them without their permission]
Full Bible Course: (two weeks in residence)
Christ The Rock - a 23 tape audio set $115
The Water In The Bottle (the godhead)
- a 24 tape audio set, $120
and book “The Water In The Bottle - the god head” $15
Healing Made Plain - a 20 tape audio set $110
and book ‘Healing Made Plain’ $20
Gospel Of Grace – a 15 tape set $100
and book ‘Gospel Of Grace’ $12
Foundations - a 30 tape set $130
and book ‘Foundations’ $25
and other accompanying books:
The Everlasting Covenant $14
Gifts Of The Spirit $25
Positive Prayer $19
Church Government $12
Homiletics And Pastoral Theology $12
Holocaust $20
Unless my ‘adder’ is broken asunder that totals $749
I think that $749 is slightly more than $500.
:-)
PS I really did have that text very nicely formatted, GS' server messes up the whole formatting thing.
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J0nny Ling0
I suppose Galen, that the term "dog and pony show" can be applied to many a different "show" where lots of sunshine is blown up the audience's arses, and where the truth is coated over with untruths. I was at all of the clergy meetings and damage control meetings concerning POP, and I think that the term is very apropos, imho.
I do not think that the term is used only in military situations...
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