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How many here hang out with CFF?


smurfette
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quote:
Agreed Bramble, the most serious offenders of pushing their beliefs, is usually the ones upset that folks are no longer are kept cowed by twi dogma.

And among the worst- ex TWI LEADERSHIP. Either they were heaven, or they were hell..

It EXASPERATES them to see their "precious" being so "mistreated"..

There's only one way this leads me- just makes me want to spit on the memory of the thing, or worse.

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Allan said

quote:

Wordwolf said ..

"So there are pagans, atheists, christians of every stamp that post here.."

Thats fine, I'm sure we've all worked that out, but some of us have also worked out that they try to 'push' their beliefs as much as anyone.

It's called 'debating'.

Bramble challenge Allan's assertion of 'pushing' beliefs...

quote:
As one of the few pagans on this site, I would challenge you, Allan, to find

any place where I have 'pushed' my beliefs on someone.

rascal agreed with Bramble...

quote:
Agreed, Bramble, the most serious offenders of

pushing their beliefs are usually the ones upset that folks are no longer kept

cowed by twi dogma.

Allan replied to them both...

quote:
I no longer believe in one truth that fits

every human being on the planet. I challenge you to find anywhere on this site where

I have pushed my beliefs. I didnt have to look far, did I?

Those paying attention may notice that Allan asserted that non-Christians were

pushing their POV, and then one non-Christian challenged him to find one place she

did so-thus challenging his claim. Allan then dodged the challenge

(refusing to acknowledge that HE said she was pushing her POV, and asked her to

find one place he did.

Now, I CAN find it, but I'd rather see Allan answer BRAMBLE's question FIRST.

She asked him FIRST, he REFUSED to answer, then turned the SAME question on her.

====

BTW, Allan?

"Pushing one's beliefs" is not "debating".

Dictionary.com lists definitions of "debate" as

1-To consider something; deliberate.

2-To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

3-To engage in a formal discussion or argument.

"Formal arguments", BTW, are not "yelling at each other",

which some people call an argument.

Any Monty Python fan should be able to tell you that an 'argument' is a

series of statements intended to establish a proposition.'

Dictionary.com says it's

"a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood".

=========

Hm,

now we have the latest "sole defender of the faith" here.

Please note, everyone, that he has now said

quote:
I no longer believe in one truth that fits every human being on the planet.

as of 8/17/05 5:33pm Eastern.

This is sure to come up again, especially when he "stops" GSC from

"being overrun by pagans, atheists, new agers and spiritualists."

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Its hardly a surprise that even a simple,basic inquiry about a specific splinter would spawn a more general discussion about the efficacy of Way offshoots. After all these groups are first generation derivatives of TWI so what thinking ex-Way person would not wonder if stepping into a relationship with one of these groups is a wise thing to do. One shouldn't expect the forum to suspend discussions on CFF or any other Way derivative simply because an offshoot participant feels that its demeaning or insulting to do so. (This reminds me of the Wierwille loyalist who seeks to stop critical discussions of VPW on the basis that its rude to speak ill of the dead).

If a person wants to "fellowship" with XYZ Way offshoot then have it it but don't be surprised or offended if not everyone thinks highly of the group or posts with questions about the general appeal of the group. There are people here who do find some good in them and I'm sure they will kick in their 2 cents to reflect their experience but in general I don't find them seeking to block meaningful exchange on the purpose of the offshoots.

In my view (speaking ONLY for myself at this point ) - I think that anything that is derivative of TWI is not for me so I don't need to go to each group to see if they are "right on" or "tapped in" or "working the word". TWI for me had massive problems in many different areas including the general behavior and attitudes that existed.

So the various cosmetic "fixups" , minor adjustments, and "errata" that each splinter might have applied to and issued against various points of Way theology could never be enough to make Way teachings appealing

since the bulk of the foundational material was stolen from other sources yet there are so many who still refuse to acknowlwedge that. Furthermore I've spoken with splinter members and I still observe the attitudes of entitlement and arrogance that was so characteristic of TWI mindset that no church other than your group is valid. I'm aware of least one splinter that thinks all others are counterfeits so the dysfunction of the parent is now in the child. No thanks. I don't want to be in the vicinity of that poisonous thinking.

Some of the people who run the splinters were total P***ks while in TWI and have yet to issue even miminal apologies to people they hurt yet they expect people to support them as full time clergy so they can continue to exist as they did while in TWI ? It seems to me that if anything its the obligation of the splinter group to make a strong and convincing case that they are sufficiently different from TWI to warrant a closer look. After all they need me (more specifically my money) a great deal more than I need them. They should be reaching out, cutting your grass, babysitting your children, cooking your meals becaues God knows they got that tons of that type of free labor from many here. But you won't get apologies or acknowledgements of wrong doing from leaders who are so far down the wrong road that they think if they stay on it long enough it'll intersect with the right road.

So on a human level these groups and their leaders have a lot of owning up to do. Just because they left TWI or were M&Aed or doesn't mean that the reset button has been pushed and that the influences and attitudes of TWI just disappeared. Highly unlikely.

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Bramble said "how are you going to stop things being posted.."

I never said I was!!

Wordwolf, do you want to dissitate over 'pushing' versus 'debating'? Get a life mate !!

Sorry, that was a 'rhetorical' 'parambole' of a remote context statement..geeesh.

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quote:
No I'm happy to stay here for awhile to stop it being overun by pagans, atheists, new agers and spiritualists,so thanks anyway Bramble !

Well, just a "little" thought..

The WHOLE STINKING WORLD is "overrun" by "them".

Pagans, Atheists, Spiritualists, Devil worshippers, Muslims, Catholics, you name it.

And I don't think they are going to relinquish their tiny bit of real estate- on your terms.

I think you are out numbered, fella..

"Good luck" icon_smile.gif:)-->

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Allan posted the word

quote:
dissitate

Oakspear said

quote:
Although this one wasn't in the dictionary that I checked

Allan replied

quote:
try an English one !!

===

http://www.dictionary.com said

quote:
No entry found for dissitate. Did you mean dissertate?

Since I'm on the subject, Allan also said

quote:
parambole

and Dictionary.com said

quote:
No entry found for parambole. Did you mean parembole?

Allan also used the word

quote:
disitating
in another thread.

Dictionary.com said

quote:
No entry found for disitating. Did you mean distorting?

which I thought was an interesting coincidence. Since the term seems to have an inconsistent

spelling, one would expect at least one to be wrong. (Or, as is the case, all of them.)

======

Now, someone might think I was taking this too seriously.

To this I say 2 things.

A) I didn't take out a collegiate dictionary, thumb thru it, and post the results, but I

COULD have. This would have required caring enough.

B) I actually WOULD have let the original post go, but Allan WAS the one wrangling about

words...

quote:
WordWolf, do you want to dissitate over 'pushing' versus 'debating'? Get a life mate!!

Sorry, that was a 'rhetorical' 'parambole' of a remote context statement

and when Oakspear pointed out the error, Allan DENIED he made a mistake

quote:
try an English one !!
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Smurfette said;

"I think someone here had called the offshoots in general a halfway house of sorts."

I'm the person who said some offshoots can be a half way houe to "un-waybrain".

What I mean by that is for those who left TWI and still have the "waybrain" attitude, some offshoots can offer a sense of familiarity.

Some offshoots have attempted to correct the erroneous TWI doctrines, so when you fellowship with them, you start to think, which can lead to "un-waybraining" your mind.

My experience with CFF was that I got involved with them at their inception around 96/97, the people involved were wonderful, loving and caring. My biggest complaint with them was they praised Wierwille, often referring to him as "father in the Word" or "Man of God".

Since I knew Wierwille was a plagerist, adulterer, liar, drunkard and taught many erroneous doctrines, this was a big turn off.

But of all the offshoots I checked out CFF definately had the nicest folks involved, and John Shroyer is one of the most caring, loving and sincere leaders I've ever met.

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I haven't been involved with CFF since late 97 so it's very possible things have changed.

When they first started, they were attempting to become like TWI of the 70's. And they very much were.

For me, when I left TWI I just couldn't bring myself to go to a church, due to my still being waybrained, I just didn't trust churches, so offshoots offered a place to fellowship.

After a while, I felt that offshoots were not the place God wanted me to be at and began checking out churches.

I found that some of the churches were great, and I had been wrong about church.

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My advice Smurfette, is check out different offshoots, listen to the teachings that differ from what TWI taught and check the Word to see if these things are so.

CES(Jal, Scheonheit) has something like 25 different doctrines then TWI, CBC(VF) teaches several differences then TWI such as administrations and LMCI(Dale Sides) teaches almost everything different then TWI.

I certainly don't buy into everything they teach, but they will make you think.

Try going to CFF fellowship, and some of the others, and see if it's where you want to be.

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