This episode of twi history was a RED FLAG WARNING that twi leadership.......the trustees, the trustee cabinet and the region men.......DO NOT WALK WITH GOD.
This blunder.....preceded the Y2K preparations and prophecies.
This blunder.....preceded the Allen and Parker lawsuits.
How many blunders and buffoonishness can one stomach??????
Bod: You expected so much of us on the field sending great sums to you when we surely needed said sums
you lied to us saying if the ministry is to continue we need to make cuts while you bought expensive clothes and bought expensive car trips private planes
yet you held us accountable if your goals were not reached
where were your believing? or maybe you really are spiritual cripples and hitch hikers
Howard I know you are old but we did not kill your best friend, with your excesses and lies when you knew you were wrong and did nothing you did
The corps were set up to take a fall,I know some really tried to make it work
Some were just plain foot@@les
Bod we are growing in numbers we will continue to expose you Remember a lie is alie is a lie
no matter how many times you tell it it is still a lie
I wonder how the staff felt about the chosen few, as they stood along the driveway, waving handkerchief as they drove off into the bahama sunset..
They told us ahead of time when and where they were going. Lcm said that if someone truly had a problem that they should write him with their thoughts....yeah right....That was an invitation to get your arse kicked.
When they brought up the Corps and Staff taking a 10% cut in pay, it was presented for a certain amount of time (a little over a year??? can't remember exactly). When the time came to re-evaluate everyone's salaries, I would be surprised if people got back the 10%. They were very stingy. I made less than $600 a month when I went and still made even less when I left 5 years later. I got in major credit card debt because I couldn't handle my finances and was scared as hell to tell anyone. I didn't want scrutiny or yelling. It still peeses me off to think about it today.
Ham, with all due respect, I don't think Howard and Don were brainwashed; I think they enjoyed the lifestyle that Craig's "revelations" afforded them so they kept their mouths shut.
HOW MANY TIMES....were we told that the three trustees were the ONLY members of twi and were responsible before God to make right decisions? Throughout my corps "training" and grad involvement with twi, I probably heard this 12 to 15 times.
How convenient for lcm....to duck and dodge the accountability when his blunders are in the spotlight!!!
How convenient for lcm....to blame the corps for their blunders!!!
Reminds me of King Saul in OT.....when God called him on the carpet for his actions and Saul tried to shift his disobedience back to the people.
Same deal, different day. Saul lost his throne, too.
How convenient for lcm....to blame the corps for their blunders!!!
Skyrider, were you at the special Corps Meeting held the day before the ACS 2000 started right after lcm was booted or left? I am asking because I had a friend who was Corps who told me that Rosa-lie had reproved the Corps for knowing about lcm's sexcapades and not speaking up about it. This friend also told me that women who had sex with lcm were told to tell their husbands or that "they" would. If this is true, it is very interesting that "they" knew who had done the deed with the MOG. Can you verify this? Or anyone else??
Wayfer Not!....I exited shortly after the above quote in 1998. More and more of us corps were on the "cutting edge" of what twi leadership was demanding at that time.
I bucked on the micromanagement as early as 1995 and couldn't stomach the mandates any longer.
I too would be interested to see if anyone can verify these information from the stated meeting at ACS 2000. Yet, Rosa-lie herself stated in a 1995 deposition that SHE knew about the sexcapades.....ANOTHER shifting to duck and cover.
If Don and Howard had had ANY OUNCE OF SPIRITUAL DEPTH, they would have kicked Martindale to the curb THAT DAY and apologized to every corps person and come clean!!!!
Spiritual Depth???? When I hear that, all I can give you is a sour laugh. They didn't NEED any spiritual depth. They had the money, they had the followers, they had the product. All they needed to to was to TELL THE TRUTH and DO THE RIGHT THING which, as you said, was to kick Marindale to the curb, then follow up by telling the folks that there were some problems, write a strict ethical code of conduct for everyone on payroll and enforce it. That's what's so sick about the whole thing. They didn't NEED any spiritual depth or guidance. They could have been friggin athiests for all it matters. They just needed to clean house and set up a system to punish bad behavior.
It's hard to imagine how it could have been handled worse.
That's what's so sick about the whole thing. They didn't NEED any spiritual depth or guidance. They could have been friggin athiests for all it matters. They just needed to clean house and set up a system to punish bad behavior.
It's hard to imagine how it could have been handled worse.
ABSOLUTELY. Good point.
Yeah.....it simply showed that the cancer had easily spread throughout the trustee level. Surprise. Surprise. -->
I may know someone I can check with regarding the AC meeting. I also think someone posted about that already shortly after it happened. I'll search around and see....
Also, The way corps principle quoted at the beginning of this thread was changed, watered down. I don't think way corps are suppose to believe for material abundance for themselves anymore, but I might be wrong. There are new corps principle written by LCM. I don't think his doctrine on that has been changed by the current leaders.
No wonder they are being sued by Mr. Peeler for millions due to their financial improprieties. They need to be held responisble to the fullest extent of the law. And in some ways I believe they could be PERSONALLY LIABLE for damages they have caused.
PERSONALLY LIABLE. It is not out of the question in todays agressive legal environment. Just look at what has happened to some of the men and women in corporations who were involved in financial scandals.
I hope those who are in or who WERE in top leadership positions have no personal assets that could be at risk. Personally I would not want the risk of being in any top positions with TWI.
If it were me I would quietly and quickly disassociate myself from the whole mess kind of like the Lally's, Licht's, Mosqueda's, Panarello's, Skyrider, and many others have done. There is more peace of mind in leaving than staying in my opinion.
I am reminded of an interview I saw with the actor Jason Isaacs, who plays such deeply evil villains as Col. William Tavington in The Patriot, and Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies. He was asked how he got into character to play such bad guys. His statement has stuck with me ever since. He said:
All villains genuinely believe their actions are justified.
He went on to say that as an actor the key of playing a believable villain was to understand what the bad guy considered to be his own "higher motives"... the reasons he gave himself to justify such normally indefensible actions.
So, my answer to the quote is:
They can sleep at night because they have completely and utterly justified their own behaviors as being "reasonable means" to accomplish their own "higher motives". Which also tells me there is virtually nothing they will stop at to keep their little empire alive.
They can sleep at night because they have completely and utterly justified their own behaviors as being "reasonable means" to accomplish their own "higher motives". Which also tells me there is virtually nothing they will stop at to keep their little empire alive.
Yeah.....and today, the next tier of twi leadership [ages 50 and older] have adapted the same justification. IMO they justify their actions by having "given their lives for the ministry".....and secretly, they relish in a position of authority ot lord over the oppressed. With bogus "spiritual seniority status" they keep the faithful in line with fear of ostracizing them.
Just like the corps were blamed for the RAINS AT CORPS WEEK & ROCK OF AGES......so the corps are held responsible for bringing in the abs. Obviously, the corps didn't have full allegiance in martindale's "revelation from God" and therefore, the "revelation" didn't come to pass. To hold twi microphone is to hold the people spellbound!! All the while, the bod pontificates in the boardroom to further instill their dominance.
They can sleep at night because they have completely and utterly justified their own behaviors as being "reasonable means" to accomplish their own "higher motives". Which also tells me there is virtually nothing they will stop at to keep their little empire alive.
Scary but true, Highway. I've never heard it put like that, but it makes total sense. Thank you.
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Ham
Sure forgot that, in a hurry.
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Belle
How much is FICA tax? Surely not more than $40 Million??
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Ham
Surely not. Considering they don't contribute to SS, I seriously doubt it..
Unless that was the unemployment contribution TWI had to make.
Interesting though- first they give the illusion of God's "blessing"- and turn around and give an equally believable illusion of "poverty".
I wonder how the staff felt about the chosen few, as they stood along the driveway, waving handkerchief as they drove off into the bahama sunset..
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skyrider
This episode of twi history was a RED FLAG WARNING that twi leadership.......the trustees, the trustee cabinet and the region men.......DO NOT WALK WITH GOD.
This blunder.....preceded the Y2K preparations and prophecies.
This blunder.....preceded the Allen and Parker lawsuits.
How many blunders and buffoonishness can one stomach??????
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ljn698
there were even a few red flags before that
wasn't the deal that your loyalty should be to God and His word?
from day one wasn't the teaching don't trust in man, they will let you down sooner or later but always trust in God and His word
ok ok let's say that's the deal
so then in circa 1989 or so they demanded everybody's signature on some loyalty oath
this after being told not to be loyal to anyone but God
most of the people we knew split right then and there
but i know there are other red flags even before that
so what did they say about 50-80 percent of the followers disappearing virtually overnight?
they must've all been posessed by the devil spirits
good gravy!
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frank123lol
Bod: You expected so much of us on the field sending great sums to you when we surely needed said sums
you lied to us saying if the ministry is to continue we need to make cuts while you bought expensive clothes and bought expensive car trips private planes
yet you held us accountable if your goals were not reached
where were your believing? or maybe you really are spiritual cripples and hitch hikers
Howard I know you are old but we did not kill your best friend, with your excesses and lies when you knew you were wrong and did nothing you did
The corps were set up to take a fall,I know some really tried to make it work
Some were just plain foot@@les
Bod we are growing in numbers we will continue to expose you Remember a lie is alie is a lie
no matter how many times you tell it it is still a lie
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Nottawayfer
They told us ahead of time when and where they were going. Lcm said that if someone truly had a problem that they should write him with their thoughts....yeah right....That was an invitation to get your arse kicked.
When they brought up the Corps and Staff taking a 10% cut in pay, it was presented for a certain amount of time (a little over a year??? can't remember exactly). When the time came to re-evaluate everyone's salaries, I would be surprised if people got back the 10%. They were very stingy. I made less than $600 a month when I went and still made even less when I left 5 years later. I got in major credit card debt because I couldn't handle my finances and was scared as hell to tell anyone. I didn't want scrutiny or yelling. It still peeses me off to think about it today.
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Ham
How typical. Let's just throw all logic aside to the wind..
And they wouldn't even question it.
Brainwashed, even to the trustee level.
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Belle
Ham, with all due respect, I don't think Howard and Don were brainwashed; I think they enjoyed the lifestyle that Craig's "revelations" afforded them so they kept their mouths shut.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle
i agree with your post.
my question is how in hell can these people{bloodsuckers}
sleep at night?
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skyrider
HOW MANY TIMES....were we told that the three trustees were the ONLY members of twi and were responsible before God to make right decisions? Throughout my corps "training" and grad involvement with twi, I probably heard this 12 to 15 times.
How convenient for lcm....to duck and dodge the accountability when his blunders are in the spotlight!!!
How convenient for lcm....to blame the corps for their blunders!!!
Reminds me of King Saul in OT.....when God called him on the carpet for his actions and Saul tried to shift his disobedience back to the people.
Same deal, different day. Saul lost his throne, too.
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Nottawayfer
Skyrider, were you at the special Corps Meeting held the day before the ACS 2000 started right after lcm was booted or left? I am asking because I had a friend who was Corps who told me that Rosa-lie had reproved the Corps for knowing about lcm's sexcapades and not speaking up about it. This friend also told me that women who had sex with lcm were told to tell their husbands or that "they" would. If this is true, it is very interesting that "they" knew who had done the deed with the MOG. Can you verify this? Or anyone else??
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skyrider
Wayfer Not!....I exited shortly after the above quote in 1998. More and more of us corps were on the "cutting edge" of what twi leadership was demanding at that time.
I bucked on the micromanagement as early as 1995 and couldn't stomach the mandates any longer.
I too would be interested to see if anyone can verify these information from the stated meeting at ACS 2000. Yet, Rosa-lie herself stated in a 1995 deposition that SHE knew about the sexcapades.....ANOTHER shifting to duck and cover.
Them trustees are a bunch of weasels.
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Jim
Spiritual Depth???? When I hear that, all I can give you is a sour laugh. They didn't NEED any spiritual depth. They had the money, they had the followers, they had the product. All they needed to to was to TELL THE TRUTH and DO THE RIGHT THING which, as you said, was to kick Marindale to the curb, then follow up by telling the folks that there were some problems, write a strict ethical code of conduct for everyone on payroll and enforce it. That's what's so sick about the whole thing. They didn't NEED any spiritual depth or guidance. They could have been friggin athiests for all it matters. They just needed to clean house and set up a system to punish bad behavior.
It's hard to imagine how it could have been handled worse.
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skyrider
ABSOLUTELY. Good point.
Yeah.....it simply showed that the cancer had easily spread throughout the trustee level. Surprise. Surprise.
-->
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Belle
I may know someone I can check with regarding the AC meeting. I also think someone posted about that already shortly after it happened. I'll search around and see....
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Tumbleweed Kid
Also, The way corps principle quoted at the beginning of this thread was changed, watered down. I don't think way corps are suppose to believe for material abundance for themselves anymore, but I might be wrong. There are new corps principle written by LCM. I don't think his doctrine on that has been changed by the current leaders.
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igotout
No wonder they are being sued by Mr. Peeler for millions due to their financial improprieties. They need to be held responisble to the fullest extent of the law. And in some ways I believe they could be PERSONALLY LIABLE for damages they have caused.
PERSONALLY LIABLE. It is not out of the question in todays agressive legal environment. Just look at what has happened to some of the men and women in corporations who were involved in financial scandals.
I hope those who are in or who WERE in top leadership positions have no personal assets that could be at risk. Personally I would not want the risk of being in any top positions with TWI.
If it were me I would quietly and quickly disassociate myself from the whole mess kind of like the Lally's, Licht's, Mosqueda's, Panarello's, Skyrider, and many others have done. There is more peace of mind in leaving than staying in my opinion.
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TheHighWay
QUOTE: How can these people sleep at night?
I am reminded of an interview I saw with the actor Jason Isaacs, who plays such deeply evil villains as Col. William Tavington in The Patriot, and Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies. He was asked how he got into character to play such bad guys. His statement has stuck with me ever since. He said:
All villains genuinely believe their actions are justified.
He went on to say that as an actor the key of playing a believable villain was to understand what the bad guy considered to be his own "higher motives"... the reasons he gave himself to justify such normally indefensible actions.
So, my answer to the quote is:
They can sleep at night because they have completely and utterly justified their own behaviors as being "reasonable means" to accomplish their own "higher motives". Which also tells me there is virtually nothing they will stop at to keep their little empire alive.
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skyrider
Yeah.....and today, the next tier of twi leadership [ages 50 and older] have adapted the same justification. IMO they justify their actions by having "given their lives for the ministry".....and secretly, they relish in a position of authority ot lord over the oppressed. With bogus "spiritual seniority status" they keep the faithful in line with fear of ostracizing them.
Just like the corps were blamed for the RAINS AT CORPS WEEK & ROCK OF AGES......so the corps are held responsible for bringing in the abs. Obviously, the corps didn't have full allegiance in martindale's "revelation from God" and therefore, the "revelation" didn't come to pass. To hold twi microphone is to hold the people spellbound!! All the while, the bod pontificates in the boardroom to further instill their dominance.
Un--friggin--believable.
:D-->
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Belle
Scary but true, Highway. I've never heard it put like that, but it makes total sense. Thank you.
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outandabout
How can they not contribute to SS without the Feds knocking on the door?
Just wondering.
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Belle
They may be contributing now, but at one time they had all their "employees" sign Social Security Withholding Waivers.
Many gladly signed because TWI is of God and surely they wouldn't do anything to hurt people, right??
;)-->
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