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Outreach beyond vpw's congregation

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According to Mrs. Wierwille's book that was compiled from The Way's historical files......the following on page 36 & 37 gives insight of vpw's character and initial desires to break away from his congregation.

*****

"After our move into the new parsonage, Rev. Wierwille found a room a block away from the church, formerly a dentist's office, which he rented and made into his office/study. Not a particularly patient young minister, he got pretty discouraged by not knowing how to handle various challenges within the congregation. At one time he told me that he was ready to quit the ministry if he didn't learn how to handle these seemingly helpless situations. Something seemed to be lacking in answer to prayers.

"I'd had the best education money could buy; but with all that I knew, I just could not help people. I was discouraged the first year in the ministry, 1941-42. I thought, 'Had my dad spent all that money to educate a fool?' I prayed a great deal about it. Even then I was discouraged with my life. The principles of the ministry bothered me. The shallowness bothered me."

The annual Paulding County Sunday School Convention was held Friday evening, September 5, and Sunday afternoon and evening, September 7, 1941, at our church in Payne. These three meetings were set "to worship, receive inspiration for daily living, and acquire information about the unique place religious education holds in the proper training for your son or daughter and its importance for your own spiritual growth."

At this same time Rev. Wierwille introduced a Bible study and teacher-training course which he taught. The purpose was to "bring to hand every element required to build up knowledge, aquaint you with methods, and supply inspiration for dealing with the problems that confront teachers and workers."

Rev. Wierwille's outreach beyond the congregation then began on July 23, 1942, with a column called "Religion in the Weekly" in the local weekly newspaper, The Payne Reflector. He wrote, "The aim in this is a column written for your enjoyment, edification and growth in matters pertaining to the spiritual advancement of your personality." He expected to see some results, so he closed his first article with this statement: "We are anxious to hear from you and your respsonse will help to determine the value of this column to your own life and the well-being of your community."

During this period Rev. Wierwille was doing much searching......"

*****

In vpw's first year as pastorate of a church, he ALREADY is discouraged............????

......the principles of the ministry bothered him....????

......the shallowness bothered him....????

......and he's looking for ways of outreach beyond his congregation....????

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"We are anxious to hear from you and your respsonse will help to determine the value of this column to your own life and the well-being of your community."

*****

Sounds like VP needed alot of approval.

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Sounds like VP needed alot of approval.

A la....... :)

Or, was vpw "fishing for a following" by starting the newspaper column?

Also, if July 23, 1942 was Rev. Wierwille's first outreach attempt beyond his congregation.......why isn't THAT DATE used to mark the beginning of wierwille's ministry?

Or,......the first time vpw THOUGHT about outreach outside the pail of his congregation???

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

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"Not a particularly patient young minister, he got pretty discouraged by not knowing how to handle various challenges within the congregation. At one time he told me that he was ready to quit the ministry if he didn't learn how to handle these seemingly helpless situations. Something seemed to be lacking in answer to prayers.

"I'd had the best education money could buy; but with all that I knew, I just could not help people."

At this same time Rev. Wierwille introduced a Bible study and teacher-training course which he taught. The purpose was to "bring to hand every element required to build up knowledge, aquaint you with methods, and supply inspiration for dealing with the problems that confront teachers and workers."

Well, we knew he wasn't "particularly patient" because he always took the LAZY

solution to problems.

We also see that not being able to help people sure didn't slow him down from trying to

teach the Bible.....

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"I'd had the best education money could buy; but with all that I knew, I just could not help people. I was discouraged the first year in the ministry, 1941-42. I thought, 'Had my dad spent all that money to educate a fool?' I prayed a great deal about it. Even then I was discouraged with my life. The principles of the ministry bothered me.

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is how they ever so subtly built vee pee's image as some all-knowing, super duper MOG to be worshipped - after all he had the best education money could buy! Laughable now that we know it may be the best PAPER MILL education money could buy but it certainly wasn't worth the price of the paper it was printed on.

The shallowness bothered me."

:jump::jump::jump:

AHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Oh, my sides...... HA HA HA!!!

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More to ponder.......page 38 of Born Again to Serve.

"Rev. Wierwille visited the Higley Press frequently for fellowship with the people there. In later years he said, "If you want to improve in a sport, play with someone better than you"; so he also fellowshipped with people from whom he might learn. "Robert Higley, having learned of my academic background and my ability of researching certain subjects, asked me to be a contributing editor for the Christian Action magazine [which the Higley Press published]. This opportunity I gladly accepted, and the venture proved fruitful." It was also at this press that Rev. Wierwille met Rosalind Rinker, a former missionary to China and Korea, now devoting her time conducting Christian Action evangelistic meetings. Rev. Wierwille brought Rosalind to our home near the end of the summer. We met with her privately, along with two high school girls who helped Rev. Wierwille by cleaning his office and doing some typing for him after school every day. Rosalind taught us, among other things, that we needed to read the Bible rather than read around it. This idea seemed somewhat radical to a highly read, highly educated young man. She then further suggested, "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christian believers the how of a really victorious life?" He took her advice and began studying the Word more diligently.

The contacts we made at Higley Press and the Winona Lake Conference were central to our spiritual growth. there we heard dynamic speakers at the Christian Action Conferences, such as R. G. Le Tourneau, a very progressive businessman who literally believed God's promises of prosperity in tithing, and Homer Rodeheaver, who had at one time been soloist for the famous evangelist Billy Sunday. Homer Rodeheaver was a great promoter of outstanding Christian music, singing with a great voice or playing a trumpet as he led tremendous audience singing.

Another evangelist who had inspired Rev. Wierwille with his great musical ability was Rev. Charles Fuller. Rev. Wierwille had stated, "I listened to Charles Fuller's radio program, 'The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour,' every Sunday morning before I went to church or to my office. He inspired me so with his music. He was an evangelist who had great charisma, great ability, and one of the first preachers involved in radio. Rev. Fuller was such a humble man and wanted to bless people. Why wouldn't the spirit of God work within him? It did."

Rev. Wierwille and I grew with our little congregation as we visited and became more personally acquainted with them: meeting their families, their children in college, understanding family relationships and backgrounds. Rev. Wierwille always spoke of our church as "The church with the open door and the open Bible."

*****

Rosalind taught us, among other things, that we needed to READ THE BIBLE rather than read around it..........................an amazing, simple truth!!!

In progressive order, it seems that Charles Fuller's radio program, "The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour".......was the original inspiration for vpw's "Vesper Chimes," shortly thereafter renamed "The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan.

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Page 41

"Beginning with a radio broadcast on Saturday, October 3, 1942, Rev. Wierwille and his assembled youth group performed their first live radio production. Rev. Wierwille certainly didn't realize at the time that this program would launch a ministry which would change the lives of thousands. His first radio program was designed to teach principles of the abundant life "through musical performancs and scriptural messages." Dr. Wierwille later said, "I felt we had to do something to bless the people, and a radio broadcast might arouse some excitement and serve as outreach." The personal impact of such regular teaching and preaching, Dr. Wierwille explained, "was that it got me back to digging the Word.... That broadcast and the Sunday morning service made me, made me, go to the Word for two or three new teachings a week. It got me into the Word, got me growing in it and kept me fluid.

"We were pioneers in using people for our performances," he continued. "All of the other religious programs used adults. But I thought if we started with young people, it would grow into something and the adults might catch on."

[Pictured in the first broadcast of Vesper Chimes.......One man, one young female pianist, three young female singers and Mrs. Wierwille.]

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Page 42, 43

"Rev. Wierwille said the following of his days in Payne:

After all this activity and reaching out to learn more, I must know to satisy my inner yearning. And so I stood in my newly rented office and prayed to the Father. "Father, teach me the Word, teach me the Word." He told me as plain as day that if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first century. And, of course, at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God." And I thought that was terrrific. But during the process of that revelation, I said, "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me? Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it, and I couldn't understand it, couldn't get it to fit.

And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him.

And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day.

And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word.

Rev. Wierwille never told anyone of this experience until much later when he was teaching The Way Corps. It was a most astounding phenomenon which he kept to himself.

*****

Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to ME....!!!

There you have it folks.....from vpw's own words.....his FIRST RESPONSE to hearing this.

EVERYBODY.......WILL.......LISTEN.......TO.......ME.

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Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to ME....!!!

There you have it folks.....from vpw's own words.....his FIRST RESPONSE to hearing this.

EVERYBODY.......WILL.......LISTEN.......TO.......ME.

The thing to notice here is the egoism.

Jesus: "not my will, but thine, be done"

Paul: "But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth."

Victor: "Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to ME....!!!"

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...at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God."

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

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haven't read a thing

just thought i'd say i was born again to serve the frikkin man-a-god

not really, but you know

in fact, i wasn't given an on-the-field assignment, well until later.....

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VPW said...

"We were pioneers in using {young} people for our performances," he continued. "All of the other religious programs used adults. But I thought if we started with young people, it would grow into something and the adults might catch on."
That sounds to me like the most made-up, after-the fact reason! He thought the teenagers would get the adults into it?? This guy who said he just wanted 50 MEN to believe?

I'm thinking more that it was about control with him, right from the beginning. He couldn't get the adults behind him, so he went to the kids -- much less threatening. Much more malleable. And note that they were females. Why, left alone with a few of those sweet young things for a bit, and I bet ol' Vic could convince them to do a lot of things.

Rev. Wierwille brought Rosalind to our home near the end of the summer. We met with her privately, along with two high school girls who helped Rev. Wierwille by cleaning his office and doing some typing for him after school every day.{italics mine}
Given what we now know about Wierwille, this situation makes my skin crawl.

Regards,

Shaz

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Rev. Wierwille brought Rosalind to our home near the end of the summer. We met with her privately, along with two high school girls who helped Rev. Wierwille by cleaning his office and doing some typing for him after school every day.{italics mine}

Given what we now know about Wierwille, this situation makes my skin crawl.

I was thinking the same thing, Shaz, :(

David

Edited by dmiller

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In June of 1944, the Wierwille family left the Payne church, with approximately 120 members, and moved to the St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Van Wert which had 16 on the active membership list.

In Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, many Christian men are noted to help Rev. Wierwille with his search for answers. Listed below are highlighted excerpts from the book.

E. Stanley Jones

p. 48

"Rev. Wierwille had made plans to go to the E. Stanley Jones Ashram (as he called his religious retreats) at Salisbury, North Carolina, the latter part of that July 1944. Since there was gas rationing because of World War II, rides had to be shared. So Rev. Wierwille rode with three other people from northwestern Ohio to North Carolina.

Later Rev. Wierwille said of E. Stanley Jones, "I considered him a wonderful friend. I learned a great deal from him and I liked him very much. But I began to grow and develop not only to enjoy intellectualism but also the heart and love which I picked up from Rufus Moseley, Starr Daily, and Glenn Clark."

Rufus Moseley

p. 52

"One of the main speakers of the 1944 Ashram in North Carolina was a spirit-filled man whom I mentioned previously, Rufus Moseley. Brother Rufus, as everyone called him, a retired professor by that time, literally jumped for joy as he taught....

His teachings were so simple yet so dynamic. 'When we are born from above through faith that causes us to receive Him, we are born of His nature, of His love, of His Word, of His seed, and are given power to become like Him.' Also, 'We're made for the highest and nothing short of His best for us, and our best for Him, for all can satisfy us....So centralize on Jesus and his way of life as perfect union, perfect love, and perfect joyous obedience and you get these and you get everything.' He wrote in his book Perfect Everything, 'Many are tempted to believe that everything man needs is within himself, that all he needs to know are the laws of mind....and no need for a personal God or savior....We must be wise enough to be taught and led by the Holy Spirit.'"

Perry Hayden

p. 55

"In his search for Christians with a dynamic knowledge of God, Rev. Wierwille somehow heard of Perry Hayden, a Quaker miller from Tecumseh, Michigan, who was inspired by a message in his Quaker church and set out to illustrate some of the Bible lessons on "tithing," "rebirth," and "returns on what you sow." As quickly as arrangements could be made, Rev. Wierwille invited Perry to come from Michigan to visit our church and tell us about his [tithing] experiment."

Glenn Clark

p. 56

"Having attended the Camp Farthest Out in the summer of 1945 at Lake Koronis in Minnesota, Rev. Wierwille invited the camp's founder, Glenn Clark to come to speak and teach us in 1946...

"Because of his dream of 'going farther out spiritually.' Glenn developed the concept of the Camps Farthest Out. His first experimental camp was held at Camp Koronis in Minnesota, in 1931...

"We thought Glenn Clark's Camps Farthest Out was the best design in camps that we had ever seen. And so we have used many of the C.F.O. principles and activities in The Way Family Camps at Camp Gunnison--The Way Family Ranch in Colorado."

E.W. Kenyon

p. 76

"E.W. Kenyon (1857-1948) was another man whose dynamic writings had a great impact on Dr. Wierwille's life. Kenyon was a man who had a great thirst for a knowledge of God. And what he learned, he was diligent to pass on to others..........by studying Kenyon's writings, Dr. Wierwille was able to teach more of the accuracy of God's Word."

"Kenyon's one fixed goal was: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15). Dr. Wierwille enthusiastically promoted Kenyon's writings: The Blood Covenant, The Two Kinds of Faith, The Two Kinds of Knowledge, Identification, and Jesus the Healer, to mention some of them. These were valuable sources of inspiration for himself personally and in his teaching ministry."

*****

More to follow

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Any chance we can get a "wonderland" format thread on this book, skyrider?

I for one would love the additional insight we get from the information

plus the group analysis...

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According to Mrs. Wierwille's book, there is a long list of men and women who significantly taught and influenced her husband.....one of the most profound being Rev. B.G. Leonard.

Rev. B. G. Leonard

p. 90

"Ever since the Divine Healing Convention in Tulsa in December 1951, and since Rev. B.G. Leonard prayed with us for Mary's healing over the phone in December 1952, Dr. Wierwille's hunger for more knowledge about God's healing power was piqued. In late winter, February 1953, Dr. Wierwille felt the need to spend time with B.G. Leonard.....

"B.G. Leonard called his work in Calgary 'The Christian Training Centre.' Dr. Wierwille described his first impressions there: "I walked in and B.G. was in the middle of announcements. They must have lasted an hour and a half. Then he took his violin and played hymns for a while. When he finally started preaching, he taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left and I sat there. He said, 'I thought I told you that you couldn't come.' And I said, 'Yeah, but I didn't hear you.' "

In June of 1953, four months after Dr. Wierwille's initial trip, our family traveled with two other carloads of our friends to Calgary to take B.G. Leonard's class which he called "The Gifts of the Spirit." At his Christian Training Centre, a large upstairs room over a pawnshop, our son Don and I were students in this class from June 28 to July 15. Dr. Wierwille was with us, but of course, he was not a new student, though he wanted to sit through the class again because what B.G. Leonard was teaching was so thrilling and powerful about the "gifts" of holy spirit and about spiritual healing."

p. 99...."In October 1953, Dr. Wierwille taught the first Power for Abundant Living class, which was held in the basement of St. Peter's Church. The first two classes were called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." The name was then changed to the broader title......"

*****

B.G. Leonard and his work were FOUNDATIONAL to wierwille's class setup and emphasis.

Edited by skyrider

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Any chance we can get a "wonderland" format thread on this book, skyrider?

I for one would love the additional insight we get from the information

plus the group analysis...

WW......not sure I have time to give a thorough format. :)

Here is a listing of the contents:

Preface / 1

Acknowledgements / 3

Family History / 4

Family Crest / 6

Childhood / 7

Life on the Farm / 12

High School Years / 16

Early Influences / 18

Mission House College / 23

Our Wedding / 27

Graduate Schools / 30

First Congregation / 33

Moving to Van Wert / 45

E. Stanley Jones / 48

Rufus Moseley / 52

Perry Hayden / 55

Glenn Clark / 56

Doctor of Theology Degree / 67

Hobbies / 68

The Power of Prayer / 74

E. W. Kenyon / 76

Foreign Missions / 77

Receiving the Holy Spirit / 78

Starr Daily / 82

Tenth Anniversary / 84

Mary's Healing / 87

B. G. Leonard / 90

Albert Cliffe / 94

Bishop K.C. Pillai / 96

Power for Abundant Living / 99

E. W. Bullinger / 102

Seeds of The Way Corps / 105

Preparation to Go Abroad / 107

England / 119

Welcome to India / 125

Bible Lands / 175

Europe / 189

Return to the U.S.A. / 202

George M. Lamsa / 212

International Outreach / 214

A New Headquarters / 219

Nurturing Growth / 221

A Permanent Headquarters / 232

Remodeling at the Farm / 248

A Diamond Club / 254

John Noble / 263

Moving Day / 264

Books by Victor Paul Wierwille / 269

About the Author / 271

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"After our move into the new parsonage, Rev. Wierwille found a room a block away from the church, formerly a dentist's office, which he rented and made into his office/study."
Most people would have either used a room IN the church, or a "home office" or BOTH.

vpw instead chose to PAY MONEY to RENT and make into an "office/study".

The only POSSIBLE advantage I could see is that it gives him PRIVACY.

Can anyone see any other reason for a separate office?

If not, why did he want PRIVACY?

I'd LOVE one photo of how he furnished it...

"I'd had the best education money could buy"

Somehow I skipped over this, but others caught it. AGAIN, whatever vpw got ahold

of was "the best". This seems to have been an unbreakable habit of his-

ALWAYS the best, never "serviceable" or "well".

I also noticed that this was right after his MASTERS. Thus, he knew he didn't

have a DOCTORATE, yet he thought it was the best education money could

buy-although it was INCOMPLETE as far as "money could buy".

I also noticed his life-histories always gloss over Pike's Peak.

They never mention the YEAR he graduated. We know it wasn't

now because he graduated with his Masters in 1941 (presumably

Spring-thus May/June, and started his first pastorate-this one-

July 1941.

So, there was no time for him to START a Doctorate program yet.

At this same time Rev. Wierwille introduced a Bible study and teacher-training course which he taught. The purpose was to "bring to hand every element required to build up knowledge, aquaint you with methods, and supply inspiration for dealing with the problems that confront teachers and workers."
"Bible study and teacher-training". But this was BEFORE he believed that the

Bible was God's Word and he actually started READING it.

What was he basing this "training" on?

All he was trained in was "Homiletics", or "how to give a sermon".

Rev. Wierwille's outreach beyond the congregation then began on July 23, 1942, with a column called "Religion in the Weekly" in the local weekly newspaper, The Payne Reflector. He wrote, "The aim in this is a column written for your enjoyment, edification and growth in matters pertaining to the spiritual advancement of your personality."

But he knew he was lacking in ANSWERS. How then did he expect

their "edification and growth"? It wasn't until AUGUST 1942 that he even MET

Rosal1nd R1nker! And he ALREADY was discouraged and was searching.

Hm. July 23, 1942, he writes

"Your response will help to determine the value of this column..."

and in AUGUST 1942, he's ready to give up being a minister.

Seems not only was he desperate for approval,

he had no endurance in him. No IMMEDIATE applause means he's

ready to quit. If he wasn't getting attention, by gum, he's

wasting his time!

He expected to see some results, so he closed his first article with this statement: "We are anxious to hear from you and your respsonse will help to determine the value of this column to your own life and the well-being of your community."

During this period Rev. Wierwille was doing much searching......"

But, having FOUND nothing, he STILL guaranteed results, as you see....

In other words,

vpw knew, in 1942, that he had NO ANSWERS and was FRUSTRATED that he

was UNABLE to HELP people,

THEN went out and began a newspaper column promising ANSWERS and

HELP to people.

In other, other words, he intentionally sold an EMPTY BOX labelled

"color tv" to people.

In other, other, other words, he intentionally tried to convince people he had

answers which he was CONVINCED he did NOT have.

In other, other, other, other words, he was a fraud from the beginning of his

"professional career" as a minister.

Edited by WordWolf

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MRS w says

"Rev. Wierwille visited the Higley Press frequently for fellowship with the people there. In later years he said, "If you want to improve in a sport, play with someone better than you"; so he also fellowshipped with people from whom he might learn.
Which I believe.

Then, of the same timeframe, vpw describes the SAME thing as such:

"Robert Higley, having learned of my academic background and my ability of researching certain subjects, asked me to be a contributing editor for the Christian Action magazine [which the Higley Press published].

So, Mrs W saw this as him learning, but vpw claims it was ENTIRELY

because they were impressed with him as a professional.

Actually, they saw he had a degree, and asked him to EDIT.

If they were REALLY impressed with him, they would have asked

him to WRITE. Big difference. As an editor, he cleans up the

grammar, spelling, punctuation and so on of the writers.

This opportunity I gladly accepted, and the venture proved fruitful."
He's not kidding, either.

This was his first exposure to taking the work of other Christians,

reviewing it, and making modifications to it.

All he had to add later was "cross out their names, and write his

own name in crayon" and he'd have his signature style for his

career all the way through 1980!

It was also at this press that Rev. Wierwille met Rosalind Rinker, a former missionary to China and Korea, now devoting her time conducting Christian Action evangelistic meetings. Rev. Wierwille brought Rosalind to our home near the end of the summer. We met with her privately, along with two high school girls who helped Rev. Wierwille by cleaning his office and doing some typing for him after school every day. Rosalind taught us, among other things, that we needed to read the Bible rather than read around it. This idea seemed somewhat radical to a highly read, highly educated young man. She then further suggested, "Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christian believers the how of a really victorious life?" He took her advice and began studying the Word more diligently.

The contacts we made at Higley Press and the Winona Lake Conference were central to our spiritual growth. there we heard dynamic speakers at the Christian Action Conferences, such as R. G. Le Tourneau, a very progressive businessman who literally believed God's promises of prosperity in tithing, and Homer Rodeheaver, who had at one time been soloist for the famous evangelist Billy Sunday. Homer Rodeheaver was a great promoter of outstanding Christian music, singing with a great voice or playing a trumpet as he led tremendous audience singing.

Another evangelist who had inspired Rev. Wierwille with his great musical ability was Rev. Charles Fuller. Rev. Wierwille had stated, "I listened to Charles Fuller's radio program, 'The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour,' every Sunday morning before I went to church or to my office. He inspired me so with his music. He was an evangelist who had great charisma, great ability, and one of the first preachers involved in radio. Rev. Fuller was such a humble man and wanted to bless people. Why wouldn't the spirit of God work within him? It did."

Ok, we've got the tithing thing origin, and the origin of "Vesper Chimes" the radio

show here. Of course, you can't do a radio show with music and stuff with

older people, that's a younger people activity.

He saw Fuller do it and it worked, so vpw did the same thing and tried

to make it work. It didn't work as well becasue Fuller

"was such a humble man and wanted to bless people."

As opposed to vpw who....

Rev. Wierwille and I grew with our little congregation as we visited and became more personally acquainted with them: meeting their families, their children in college, understanding family relationships and backgrounds. Rev. Wierwille always spoke of our church as "The church with the open door and the open Bible."

And put forth ALWAYS that it was a church with "ANSWERS"

despite his personal conviction that he HAD none.

But, make no mistake, he no doubt would call it

"the GREATEST CHURCH" something something.

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"Beginning with a radio broadcast on Saturday, October 3, 1942, Rev. Wierwille and

his assembled youth group performed their first live radio production. Rev. Wierwille certainly didn't realize at the time that this program would launch a ministry which would change the lives of thousands.

Well, it DIDN'T.

He SAID it was the same program.

To claim it's the same program is as accurate as claiming his Kindergarten

was the same as his Doctorate program.

His first radio program was designed to teach principles of the abundant life "through musical performancs and scriptural messages."
Based on WHAT? He JUST started READING the Bible!

Must have been all "music" and homiletics.

They provided the music, he provided the homiletics.

Before this, radio had Christian music, and had homiletics,

and had BOTH. (Fuller, for one.) NOTHING was original

in this, except adding vpw's name.

Dr. Wierwille later said, "I felt we had to do something to bless the people,

Lie.

and a radio broadcast might arouse some excitement and serve as outreach."

TRUTH.

The personal impact of such regular teaching and preaching, Dr. Wierwille explained, "was that it got me back to digging the Word.... That broadcast and the Sunday morning service made me, made me, go to the Word for two or three new teachings a week. It got me into the Word, got me growing in it and kept me fluid.

Must be harsh for the Sunday morning services of the past year-

he wasn't going to the Word for 2-3 new teachings a week.

He must have been getting material outside the Word-

that wasn't "NEW"-meaning he got them from somewhere ELSE

and taught them.

"We were pioneers in using people for our performances," he continued. "All of the other religious programs used adults. But I thought if we started with young people, it would grow into something and the adults might catch on."
And, of course, the only people he could GET was young people,

and, having no background, they worked for FREE for experience,

and he was able to pad his OWN resume and add the show.

[Pictured in the first broadcast of Vesper Chimes.......One man, one young female pianist, three young female singers and Mrs. Wierwille.]

One young guy, four young women.

Hmmm........

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Page 42, 43

"Rev. Wierwille said the following of his days in Payne:

After all this activity and reaching out to learn more, I must know to satisy my inner yearning. And so I stood in my newly rented office and prayed to the Father. "Father, teach me the Word, teach me the Word." He told me as plain as day that if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first century. And, of course, at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God." And I thought that was terrrific. But during the process of that revelation, I said, "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me? Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it, and I couldn't understand it, couldn't get it to fit.

And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him.

And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day.

And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word.

Rev. Wierwille never told anyone of this experience until much later when he was teaching The Way Corps. It was a most astounding phenomenon which he kept to himself.

*****

Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to ME....!!!

There you have it folks.....from vpw's own words.....his FIRST RESPONSE to hearing this.

EVERYBODY.......WILL.......LISTEN.......TO.......ME.

Contrast that to Solomon, say, who got to ask ANYTHING from God,

and asked for WISDOM-so he could rule God's people wisely.

(Otherwise, he would still have ruled them...)

So, vpw wanted EVERYONE TO LISTEN TO HIM.

THAT's why he wanted answers.

NOT so that he could help people-we know he was plenty loud

when he KNEW he had no answers-

but so EVERYONE WOULD LISTEN TO HIM,

and his congregation would GROW.

You know, the people giving him MONEY.

===========

No, I don't think the incident happened,

but even his construction of it is very telling.

Further, he's never seen HEAVY SNOW before.

He described a heavy blizzard white-out as

looking "BLACK".

No, it all looks "WHITE"-it is a "WHITEOUT"

condition.

As in "Oscar, is there a blizzard outside?"

*looks* "I can't tell-it's all white!"

One of these days, I'll sit down and compile

all the different accounts he's "officially"

given of this supposed incident that still

completely failed to change his life, except

in how HE describes his life.

==========

Finally, my favourite...

Mrs W leaves out something very interesting when she discusses

this incident.

"never told anyone"

"kept to himself"

She didn't say "EXCEPT ME".

If such a thing REALLY HAD HAPPENED,

wouldn't the FIRST words out of his mouth, upon encountering

his wife again, be "I've GOT to tell you what happened today..."

HOWEVER, SHE didn't hear this until the early 1970s,

nearly 30 years after it supposedly happened.

(I get that date because she also said he told it first to the corps,

and they didnt begin until 1969 with the Zero Corps.

Therefore, he told-at earliest-the FIRST Corps, 1970 or later.)

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No, I don't think the incident happened,

but even his construction of it is very telling.

Further, he's never seen HEAVY SNOW before.

He described a heavy blizzard white-out as

looking "BLACK".

No, it all looks "WHITE"-it is a "WHITEOUT"

condition.

WW.......I seriously doubt the "snow-revelation" incident also.

Just too many discrepancies like.....

......no evidence of a snowstorm/blizzard

......never seen a "black blizzard" and I've seen quite a few blizzard conditions

......wierwille held this information secret for some 30 years........doubt it.

......wierwille's response is TOO FULL OF EGO for God to perform this.....imo

......wierwille tells of this "constructed" incident to a wide-eyed corps behind closed doors.

......no witnesses.............NOT ONE.

Same thing with Mrs. Wierwille's book.....

......HER view and opinions are vastly different from Mr. Wierwille.

......HER humility comes across.....wierwille's ego surfaces regularly.

......HER recollections are TOTALLY DIFFERENT than wierwille's boastful claims.

......HER views give perspectives to family, children, culture, Christian leaders, learning from others.

Was there a deeper reason why VOLUME 2 never was published...?? Or, after this 1996 book was it just too much for Mrs. Wierwille to tackle in her golden years...??

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WW and Skyrider, did Don, JP, Sara, Karen , or Mary ever comment on these events with different recollections?

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WW and Skyrider, did Don, JP, Sara, Karen , or Mary ever comment on these events with different recollections?

TLB.....no, I never heard different recollections from the wierwille kids. But, of course, that isn't surprising.....too much information to catalogue, too much happening at the present time, too much questioning wasn't a good thing.

:dance:

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ok, i'm taking a big risk here.......but here goes.

When I read these things posted here, I see a hunger and a longing for a deeper spirituality, and a desire to help people. I am by no stretch of the imagination a VP defender. Yet, could it be that VP's soul was crying out for something deeper and more meaningful than what he had experienced in his church life?

Yeah, he had ambition, but is that always a bad thing?

It's easy to villify everything we know about the cult, and the man who started it. But in the interest of sorting out this tangled mess of who VP was, and what his motives were, and were they took him, I don't want to be too quick to jump to conclusions.

In my not so humble opinion, despite all the evil and wickedness that this man's "ministry" has wrought, something worked.

And I think at least a little piece of it had God and the Lord Jesus involved. Some where? somehow? along the way? If not, fine, I can deal with it and have in my life. I just don't think the answers are as easy as we'd like them to be sometimes.

Big sigh...........

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