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Here are *some* details of Mrs. Wierwille's book.....Born Again to Serve

For those who were asking........

Thanks skyrider ... shows how good my memory is, I had even commented on that thread.

I guess the addendum is written here at GSC ... the parts about abuse and plagiarism that were known but aggressively hidden. Or we could make it an online book titled He Was a Mean Man, as excie suggested.

From my limited experience with Dorothea, she had learned to expect to be served, more than to serve. Maybe she meant others are born again to serve ... them. Those old German families had kids born to serve ... on the farm. But one on one I would guess she was not mean at least, but more caring.

Mrs. VP lived in a rather surreal little world. Too bad they didn't care for her in her home until the end. They certainly had the money, and staying in the home she knew would have been best it seems. But so many she and VP left in their wake don't have it so well as she did ... but their stories are here, not in the Born Again to Serve book.

So I don't care if some want to hash and rehash the stories ... but it tis the season to be jolly ...

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Wunderbar!...Just how I want to spend my Christmas time! Reading more of this junk!! :asdf:

Then don't! ...spend it doing something constructive like reading wine lables! (I hear they sometimes contain gems of wisdom!)

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Thank you Skyrider, for bringing this thread back to the present.........and, Wordwolf, for your usual thorough, objective and informative "review" of the content in the excerpts which Skyrider posted!........though i had heard of this book, i had never been able to read any of it before today........i found the excerpts interesting, although, i must say, that Mrs. Wierwille's writings are definitely, imho, inordinately subjective, and skilfully edited so as to avoid recounting the many hundreds of "other details" which would offer the reader a much less flattering glimpse into vic's personal "revelatory journey" in his founding and building of twi.....an editing process absolutely necessary in order to avoid the obvious "missteps" rev. wierwille took repeatedly through those "early years of his ministry"!.......and continued until his last weeks of life on earth!

at the risk of seeming unduly "harsh", or "coldly judgemental", i feel strongly that, there are several points which need to be made in order to provide a more honest, and perhaps more objective perspective to her accounts of those early years spent with her husband in establishing "his ministry".........for various reasons, dotsie has been granted a "free pass" from providing a complete, "no-holds-barred" record of vic's "ministry" to the world, and to his "kids".........i believe sympathy is a major factor behind that "free pass"..........all those who knew "the real vic", truly "felt sorry" for dotsie for being married to that man!.......many of us in the early, smaller way corps groups, saw firsthand how utterly mean, disrespectful and disdainful vic could be to his "first lady" at times!......and not only to her, but to her sister delores, her brother alford, and other of her closest relatives!..........discussion of these numerous incidents of overt verbal and emotional cruelty to dotsie and her "earthly family" were absolutely taboo!........NEVER public, and always only between very small groups of witnesses to them, in hushed tones and whispers!.........always looking around to make sure no one else was listening!........such discussions were tantamount to an attack on the holy grail of twi, and, no one who ever may have had such discussions ever wanted to be "found out".........the consequences were unimaginable!

since dotsie is no longer living on this earth, perhaps a bit more transparency might be in order..........however, her three daughters and one of her sons are still living, and out of respect for them, and their children, there are still limits which compassionate, empathetic, and dignified human courtesy demand!.......and yet, in my opinion, dotsie, despite her gently sweet and reserved public persona, vividly exhibitted classic signs of a co-dependent enabler..........on 2 occasions, most poignantly embedded in my conscience, i was personally present when dotsie simply "broke down" emotionally, and burst into uncontrollable sobbing over her "situation" with vic........all i could do, as a young "thirty-something" clergyman, was simply hug her, and let her cry her eyes out on my shoulder!........there were no words i could speak, no actions i could take, other than that!.........one occasion was on the motorcoach, in countryside, IL, with 2 other corps grads present........the other was in the dining room of her house at hq, with only cora mae pe--rs present........those 2 incidents will forever haunt my memories of dotsie!............i will share no more details here.........nor do i feel i should.........but, those events happened, and all you have to go on is my word..........sorry.

there is no question in my mind that, dotsie was an emotionally abused and beaten-down woman......abused and beaten-down by a truly meanspirited "husband", and "man of god"!.......there's also no question in my mind, that had she stood up to vic, she most likely could have spared many of his victims!........she, perhaps more than any other person alive, could have exposed vic, and warned the rest of us about the narcissistic, sociopath who was our "father in the word"!............but, for whatever deeply personal, dysfunctional reasons, she was never able to do so.........and, sadly, that is a big part of her own legacy..........a part which is glaringly absent from the pages of her book that have been posted here!........she, more than any other woman, knew the truth about her husband!.......but, the price she would have had to pay, the pain she would have had to endure, and the shame brought upon her children whom she truly, passionately loved, were far too great for her to bear!..........and, i don't think it was the material comforts she may have enjoyed in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, or the adulation from twi followers she hesitatingly accepted, or the public image vic painted of her as the example of a "virtuous woman" that kept her silent and submissive.......but, rather, the mother's love she had for her children, and her own psychoemotional dysfunction were the keys to her puzzling choices to allow vic's personal perversions in "faith and practice" to continue unchallenged............again, i surely can't say i know why she let vic "slide"...........perhaps i never will, in this life or the one yet to be lived......i only know that, unfortunately, she did let him "slide"..........a burden she took with her to her grave!

i know karen, mary, sarah, and j.p. ........... i have not seen them, or spoken with them in 20 years!.........each one of them is "good people" in my book!........never had a negative interaction with any of them or their spouses in any of the times we may have shared together........and, i surely would never presume to tell them how they should remember their parents or the lives they chose to lead.........i can only "deal with" my own memories and experiences with dotsie and vic..........and they have to deal with their's!........they are the only folks who have the right to choose how they do so.........i wish them only god's best blessings in their lives and families..........and, i just want to share one more thing with them, and you greasespotters out there who may read this.........when i left twi hq, with my wife and 3 small children, on december 14, 1986.........after 11 long days under "house arrest", while geer and the "yak twig" figured out how to "handle" our departure,..........there was only a very small group of people there to say goodbye, and wish us well.........brian and suzi bli!ss, gondy and cathy depa@L@, johnny townsend, cora mae p&t&rs, and dorothea kipp wierwille.........the last time i ever saw her........again, with tears in her eyes, and some cookies for my children.......waving goodbye, saying, "bless you!, love you!".................................peace.

Edited by Don'tWorryBeHappy
  • Upvote 1

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DWBH:

There are indeed gaps in Dorothea Wierwille's accounts in her book, some of which you know of personally. However, as an officially sanctioned TWI publication, the negative things that are in it are priceless gems, simply because it was from a "friendly witness" who TWI would not dare to impeach. Similar things can be said about The Way: Living in Love and VP & Me where telling information cam be gleaned from all the happy-talk.

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Wow, DWBH, what burdens you bore, thanks for sharing and lightening ours...there's about a million 

little pieces to this puzzle of what the real story really was, thanks for your contributions toward the truth.

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I wonder if the reason why some of the men who were bodyguards, and in vpee's inner circle were so abusive, in turn, to their own wives, was because they learned it from vic..  

I know of one who actually beat his wife, and there have been posts here on GS from eyewitnesses to CGe*r being extreemly verbally abusive to his wife.  

I'm sure Vpee influenced them greatly as a "tupos" mog of the standard toward treating women...afterall, some of them even fetched him his girls...

Edited by but now I see

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Thank you Skyrider, for bringing this thread back to the present.........and, Wordwolf, for your usual thorough, objective and informative "review" of the content in the excerpts which Skyrider posted!........though i had heard of this book, i had never been able to read any of it before today........i found the excerpts interesting, although, i must say, that Mrs. Wierwille's writings are definitely, imho, inordinately subjective, and skilfully edited so as to avoid recounting the many hundreds of "other details" which would offer the reader a much less flattering glimpse into vic's personal "revelatory journey" in his founding and building of twi.....an editing process absolutely necessary in order to avoid the obvious "missteps" rev. wierwille took repeatedly through those "early years of his ministry"!.......and continued until his last weeks of life on earth!

DWBH......yeah, even with skillful editing....Mrs. W and Karen could only marginalize vpw's past to a certain degree and still keep "vic's stories" from full-scale scrutiny. It is rather obvious.....at least, to anyone who was deeply vested into the twi machinery.....that Mrs. W's book is a whitewashing of past recollections for public consumption and twi legacy.

IMO, the 1996 Board of Trustees.....Craig, Don and Howard......did NOT realize how this publication exposes discrepancies and flat-out lies of vpw's chest-thumping claims. Plus, it lays out the timeline of vic's youth and learning......and thereby, SHOWING HOW he car-jacked BG Leonard's class in 1953.

1) Vic goes to Calgary, Alberta......sits thru BG Leonard's class "Gifts of the Spirit" .......Feb 1953

2) Vic, Mrs. Don & others drive up to Canada to sit thru Leonard's class........................Jun/Jul 1953

3) Vic goes home, promotes & signs up friends, relatives, neighbors for "his class" .......Oct 1953

Note: The grads of Leonard's class are considered grads for "wierwille's class."

Yes, Mrs. Wierwille worked diligently to conceal much of vpw's past.......piecing together after-the-fact reasonings with the past baby-steps. Plus, it vividly highlights a number of mens' ministries in operation with scores of truths in print, in teachings, or public radio. And, in doing so.......this book shows that relatively NOTHING vic did was original........or worthy of "The Man of God for our day and time" status.

Mrs. Wierwille's book DEBUNKS the twi-hype and household doctrines.

:spy:

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I wonder if the reason why some of the men who were bodyguards, and in vpee's inner circle were so abusive, in turn, to their own wives, was because they learned it from vic..  

I know of one who actually beat his wife, and there have been posts here on GS from eyewitnesses to CGe*r being extreemly verbally abusive to his wife.  

I'm sure Vpee influenced them greatly as a "tupos" mog of the standard toward treating women...afterall, some of them even fetched him his girls...

I don't know... could be that... or it could be that he 'found' folks with those propensities and helped them hone them... birds of a feather and all that...

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I don't know, it seems a lot of them started out young and fresh, and demonstrated the power of God. I know of one who healed a blind person in his early days, Martind*ale started off as a Baptist Okie, there's people who post here who knew CGeer in the beginning.

It really seems they were molded into what they became, or grew cynical and dissolutioned, some have self destructed as a result.

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Bumped up for the new posters.

It's the discussion (incomplete as it is) of the book supposedly by Mrs W, "Born Again to Serve."

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Page 42, 43

Rev. Wierwille never told anyone of this experience until much later when he was teaching The Way Corps. It was a most astounding phenomenon which he kept to himself.

Wow. I have a few questions about this.

First: If I thought God had told me something like this, I'd sure as heck be telling my spouse. Sounds as if he told Dotsie when he told the Corps. Nice move.

Second: He did not start the Way Corps until 1969 YEARS after this. A convenient time to "sell" these young people on his authority.

Speculation: Most lawyers will tell you that it's usually hard to "prove" a person's motive, although there is such a thing as probable cause to do something...anyhow, I'm no lawyer but I am a grad of The Way Corps from 1973 and that story was one told to me in 1970 at the Greenville, NC fellowship by Ea*l B*rton who was engaged to a woman in the First Corps who had passed along that story. Also, the limb leaders, JALCES and wife, also talked up that "fact" about VP, painting him as the MOG. This claim influenced so many of us 18, 19 year olds I can't begin to list how many...

If you had to make yourself unique, different from all the other Jesus ministries around in the 1960s and 1970s, perhaps this sort of claim would pay off. Maybe VP thought a tale like this would do the trick. Who could "prove" him wrong? A claim like that is not really falsifiable, although it does sound very delusional. And certainly to anyone who knows anything about church history, comparative religion, and a few things about the history and transmission of the text, it makes his claim quite laughable. And of course now many of us know the extent to which VP plagarized much of what he passed off as The Word, stealing from other men's work, most notably E.W. Bullinger and J.E. Stiles book on the holy spirit. and B.G. Leornard's classes. For you newcomers, those things are written about here at GSC.

Easy for me to say all these years later after leaving TWI in 1987. But in 1970, it sure helped to suck me into TWI along with lots of others...

Cheers!

Edited by penworks

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Wierwille was heavy on the shinola...and we devoured it like Wimpy on a hamburger...

Vic was an excellant con man...he played us like a violin. Nothing good good will ever come from this man's life...he was a liar and a pretender

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I tried contacting Lakeland(Mission House) and Princeton Theological Seminary about classes Wierwille took, even filing a Freedom of Information act. Yet, despite Wierwille's death, I think both institutions are ashamed they presented him with degrees after finding out about his shenanigans(both theologically and morally). I even have asked 60 minutes, 20/20, Primetime, Nightline, Dateline, Frontline, POV, 48 Hours, Wolf Blitzer, Larry King, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O"Reily, Sean Hannity, Greta Van Sustern, Judge Napolitano, John Stossel,Geraldo Rivera , all by email, and have had no response from any of them. So what gives? I really want to know what classes he took. Any Koine Greek, Church History, worship classes, American denominations? why Mission House and not Eden Seminary in St. Louis or Lancaster in PA? Did he teach at Gordon Conell, or was he just a guest chaplain and lecturer? Maybe John Juddes can find out and have better luck than me.

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I tried contacting Lakeland(Mission House) and Princeton Theological Seminary about classes Wierwille took, even filing a Freedom of Information act. Yet, despite Wierwille's death, I think both institutions are ashamed they presented him with degrees after finding out about his shenanigans(both theologically and morally). I even have asked 60 minutes, 20/20, Primetime, Nightline, Dateline, Frontline, POV, 48 Hours, Wolf Blitzer, Larry King, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O"Reily, Sean Hannity, Greta Van Sustern, Judge Napolitano, John Stossel,Geraldo Rivera , all by email, and have had no response from any of them. So what gives? I really want to know what classes he took. Any Koine Greek, Church History, worship classes, American denominations? why Mission House and not Eden Seminary in St. Louis or Lancaster in PA? Did he teach at Gordon Conell, or was he just a guest chaplain and lecturer? Maybe John Juddes can find out and have better luck than me.

So, is there no record of him attending these fine institutions of higher education, or are they just not talking?

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I remember 2 of the upper echelon going through records in the basement of one of the buildings in Princeton and they did locate his name on something. I wasn't concerned so I didn't pay all that much attention to the announcement.....but....I do know I heard what I heard.

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I remember 2 of the upper echelon going through records in the basement of one of the buildings in Princeton and they did locate his name on something. I wasn't concerned so I didn't pay all that much attention to the announcement.....but....I do know I heard what I heard.

I suppose if someone were ambitious enough, they could find my fingerprints on file with the F.B.I. :o

------------because I was, at one time, a Fed. Gvt. employee.

Information, though perhaps true, can be interpreted in multiple ways.

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So, is there no record of him attending these fine institutions of higher education, or are they just not talking?

just not talking except that he attended and received BA, B.Th, and MSTh(Master of Sacred Theology) but not particular classes he took(confidentiality of privacy)>

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why Mission House and not Eden Seminary in St. Louis or Lancaster in PA?
The stated reason, which I find perfectly credible, was that Mission House was supported by donations from their congregation, including Wierwille's father

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Yes, he went to Mission House because of his father, as Oakspear pointed out.

From "The Way International's Historical Side Tour":

pg 6. "...Dr. Wierwille's father allowed him to attend college---but only on the condition that he attend the college of his father's choosing: Mission House College in Sheyboygen, Wisconsin. Today this is known as Lakeland College."

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strange that Lakeland and Princeton won't return my emails inquiring about particular classes. I mean, come on the man has been dead since 1985. releasing the info without his permission is moot and unnecessary at best, and sounds like a cover-up so not to embarress the institutions' reputations. John Juddess, can you find out more info? Inquiring minds want to know the truth.

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btw, Mission House/Lakeland is actually in Plymouth, Wisconsin about 19 miles south of Sheboygin.

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strange that Lakeland and Princeton won't return my emails inquiring about particular classes. I mean, come on the man has been dead since 1985. releasing the info without his permission is moot and unnecessary at best, and sounds like a cover-up so not to embarress the institutions' reputations. John Juddess, can you find out more info? Inquiring minds want to know the truth.

Perhaps they have old brochures in their library that outline what classes were necessary for a particular degree program. Or maybe they don't know what was required 50+ years ago. I sincerely doubt if Princeton is worried about its reputation - the guy did the work to get his graduate degree or Princeton wouldn't have conferred the degree.

Princeton is known for its critical/historical approach. It's no Moody Bible College.

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Princeton is known for its critical/historical approach. It's no Moody Bible College.

In my mind, that makes it even more intriguing they would dodge the issue.

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In my mind, that makes it even more intriguing they would dodge the issue.

Perhaps it's not an issue or a dodge. Neither organization is under any obligation to provide anything other than "directory" information about students who attended. Haven't they done that?

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