Okay-this is scary. The guy is in the hospital I was born in. I guess everything gets its fifteen minutes.
Having been shot at with a shotgun (if you read the handle thread, you know my story), I can only imagine how the guy feels. Thank God he's ok. In this case, it had to be terrifying for Cheney and everyone, not to mention his friend. Thankfully, they'll have a story to laugh about later.
As for the press, weeeell, they'll latch on to anything to complain about. They are really po'd only because they weren't told immediately.
As for the late night boobs-I wish Johnny Carson was still with us. Can you imagine? Between Bob Hope and Johnny, I don't think Ford had a moments peace.
THis is a new stamp for your hunting license that is new this year. The game wardens are only giving a warning if you don't have it.
As far as driving to where the birds are before hunting. Everyone does that. I have driven out into a pasture rolled the window down and shot more deer than I ever did from a deer blind.
ex70- You better not do that in CO, its illegal to shoot game from a vehicle here, FYI, at least last time I looked.
yes, the stamp is new, (September). It is just another little miscue, generated by lack of adequate reliable intelligence research before hunting in a foreign country. Oh wait, Texas isn't foreign is it? His victim also was cited by the way. I hope Cheney pays his $7 too. Its the least he can do.
Leno said Cheney's popularity went up 40% when the nation heard he had shot a lawyer.
On Comedy Central, Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" offered a little historical perspective, noting that Whittington was the first person to be shot by a vice president since Alexander Hamilton.
"Hamilton, of course, was shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering," he said. "Whittington? Mistaken for a bird."
The news reports say he was approximately 30 yards (90 ft.) away. That is a little less than the distance from front to back of a city residential lot. Seems to me that Teflon Dick should have been able to see him at that distance, or he should not have been hunting at all.
From what I understand, Whittington was in tall grass, not clear enough to be seen.
CNN's doing a poll on whether the VP should have come forward immediately or whether he didn't have too because the incident occured in his "private" time. Notice no one is mentioning Ted Kennedy and the incident that occured in his "private" time. The incidents themselves are not related other than both being accidents, but the delay in the release of information seems to be the same. At least old Teddy, under considerable preasure, finally made a statement.
I wonder if Cheney is just embarrassed (not to mention concerned about his friend) and would rather not face anybody. Unfortunately, the more he ducks (haha), the worse it gets.
Someone asked how far the victim was, I wonder if that 30 yards as reported distance would yield such a tight pattern of shot? Anyone?
I completely agree Kennedy deceitfully mishandled that accident too. no argument from me. He was thoroughly lambasted at the time for it by the press and politicians as was deserved. It likely was a determining factor in him never running for President. that was then, this is now.
Private time? pffft no such thing. After you accidently shoot someone, the first thing you do is make sure the victim has medical care. this takes 10 minutes when there is medical staff on hand already. After help has been secured, you report it (maybe call your lawyer first). Next I would go to the hospital to support my friend and offer moral support and prayers. Yoiu STAY there for the duration, grabbing whatever fare the cafeteria has to offer. You don'tsend your friend off in an ambulance and then go back to the ranch, have quail dinner or whatever, and talk about the weather. Who got to eat the victim's bird anyway?
Do any of you hunters know how close Whittington had to be to have birdshot embedded in his chest, through his clothes?
Shaz
One of the news reports said that Cheney was hunting with a 28 guage shotgun. This lightweight shotgun is used for small bird/game hunting. On Fox News today, they illustrated the pattern of the small bbs on a silhouetted figure......and it was a fairly tight pattern (left jaw, neck and upper chest & shoulder. The closer the target (or unintended target), the tighter the pattern.
I am no expert......but I wouldn't be surprised if the two men were about 22 - 25 yards apart.
Gun experts will also note aspects of the primer, the powder, and the size of those bbs to measure the velocity of the shot traveling from gun to Whittington. In south Texas, I would think that Whittington would have been wearing lightweight hunting apparel.
"You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and — it was not Harry's fault," he said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."
Ok, at least he is finally accepting blame, instead of the way his PR people tried to make it the victim's fault. Good for him. For awhile it looked like the message was "I did NOT have target practice on that man" :-D
I can let this rest now and chalk it up to a shamefully mishandled but unfortunate accident, whether he was sober or not at the time.
For me, to sit in judgement on Dick Cheney over this issue would be terribly unfair. When we as humans go forth and do things that have an "element of danger to them", we run the risk of making mistakes and screwing up, and possibly having tragic consequences. One time I was hunting ducks, and my ten year old son Riley was with me. He was very excited about it, and overjoyed to "be with Dad" on the River where there were a ton of ducks. At one point, we snuck up on a "raft of ducks" (it was a tidal situation), and it was looking really good. They were Green Winged Teal, very good to eat, and I stood the chance of bagging three in that one incident if my aim was true. And then, as the ducks arose from the water at my "yell" (I could never shoot a sitting duck), My ten year old son Riley, in his excitement stepped dangerously forward of my twelve gage shotgun, and as the blast went off, he said that he had "felt the blast go by his head" and that it had scared him terribly.
And me? I was shaken to the very bone. I know the power of a twelve gage shotgun at close range. A twelve gage shotgun at close range can nearly cut a man in half. And to the head, well, I just shudder to think about it. In fact, every time I allow myself to "go there" in my mind to that incident with my precious Riley, I quake with fear, and just thank God that it did not end up as one of those incidents that we read about from time to time where a "Father Accidentally Shoots and Kills Son In Hunting Accident". Oh yes. To this day (and it was six years ago), everytime it crosses my mind, I ask God to help me not think about it. It is just way too much for me to bear even to think about, and I physically shake when it comes to mind as I ask God to relieve me. In fact, I have shunned going hunting with my boys since then, even though Riley does not know how close he came. If I told him about it, I think I would break into tears in the re-telling. We are humans, we phu ck up and sometimes the repercussions are more than negative. I am simply thankful that "the worst" did not happen to my sweet little "blue eyed son", for I would forever be singing; "Where have you gone my darling young one?"
And so, for me to judge Mr. Cheney? Well, I just won't do it. He has said that when he saw his friend go down, "he was horrified". Well, that's good enough for me, for, I truly feel his pain. Fortunately, my pain is not as bad as his...
God, Jonny, I'm sooo sorry! That must have been a terrible experience, which, thank God, did not end tragedly for you. It's unfortunate that things like this can open a raw wound. I'm glad you shared this, and bless you both.
I'm sure all of us don't fault Cheney (all jokes aside) for what was obviously a terrible accident. Certain public figures just automatically wind up the butt of everybody's jokes, and he's certainly not an exception. I repeat my belief that he was probably horrified and embarrased: no matter how that stupid CNN poll turns out, I sure don't blame him for not running out to the nearest camera. I haven't seen the Fox report, just read excepts of it, so I can't judge his body language, but I'm sure it was difficult to get through. More so because it was "demanded".
And, I too think that this whole thing has it's humorous side. I couldn't wait to see what Lenno had to say, and when I saw it, I laughed. But as far as the critical judgement about how and when the news about it got out, I don't care to judge him or the Whitehouse critically on it. And yeah, I did see that CNN poll, and took it as a matter of fact. At this point, a surprising 58% say that Cheney handled it the wrong way. Well, I think that it is just too bad that people think that they can sit back as arm chair quarterbacks and criticize someone who made a mistake like that if they have never been in that or a similar situation.
And as a matter of fact, the only One I have ever mentioned this to was God. Even my son doesn't even know how dangerous that situation was. I haven't and won't mention it to my wife for I know it will scare her to even think about it, and I guess also, I would be embarrased if she knew. But, I have shared it here, for, I am mostly anonymous. I am not likely to come face to face with those few here who do know me, so I thought I'd share it. Yeah, it was really scary, and like I said, I haven't really taken the boys hunting since. I probably ought to though, and just get over it...
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Eagle
My tire was flat today. I thought Dick Cheney walked by my car...
Glad I wasn't in it. I want to live to get to my 500th post. Little by comparison to some here but a milestone for me.
Owwww! Who shot me in the a**?!?
Can't be Cheney, probably Hilary or Janet Reno.
Eagle
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topoftheworld
Okay-this is scary. The guy is in the hospital I was born in. I guess everything gets its fifteen minutes.
Having been shot at with a shotgun (if you read the handle thread, you know my story), I can only imagine how the guy feels. Thank God he's ok. In this case, it had to be terrifying for Cheney and everyone, not to mention his friend. Thankfully, they'll have a story to laugh about later.
As for the press, weeeell, they'll latch on to anything to complain about. They are really po'd only because they weren't told immediately.
As for the late night boobs-I wish Johnny Carson was still with us. Can you imagine? Between Bob Hope and Johnny, I don't think Ford had a moments peace.
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HAPe4me
Cheney has been cited for hunting without the correct bird stamp. He has sent a check for $7, the cost of the stamp. scofflaw! teehee
~HAP
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ex70sHouston
THis is a new stamp for your hunting license that is new this year. The game wardens are only giving a warning if you don't have it.
As far as driving to where the birds are before hunting. Everyone does that. I have driven out into a pasture rolled the window down and shot more deer than I ever did from a deer blind.
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HAPe4me
ex70- You better not do that in CO, its illegal to shoot game from a vehicle here, FYI, at least last time I looked.
yes, the stamp is new, (September). It is just another little miscue, generated by lack of adequate reliable intelligence research before hunting in a foreign country. Oh wait, Texas isn't foreign is it? His victim also was cited by the way. I hope Cheney pays his $7 too. Its the least he can do.
Leno said Cheney's popularity went up 40% when the nation heard he had shot a lawyer.
~HAP
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
if you shoot someone accidently with a gun it is your fault
every time
no excuses
too bad he wasn't hunting with bush
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nolongerlurking
Dick's target has had a heart attack. Caused by birdshot migrating into his heart. I bet Dick feels REEEEEEAL good about now.
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Shellon
Documents:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0213061cheney1.html
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Jim
On Comedy Central, Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" offered a little historical perspective, noting that Whittington was the first person to be shot by a vice president since Alexander Hamilton.
"Hamilton, of course, was shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering," he said. "Whittington? Mistaken for a bird."
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mstar1
I figured it would be better than Christmas for Stewart and his crew at The Daily Show
Here is the VIDEO LINK
Click on Cheneys Got A Gun--you might have to wade througfh a few short commercials, there are about 3 different segments
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Stayed Too Long
Too funny!! I love Jon Stewart and the Daily Show.
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moony3424
Now if Whittington should happen to die as a result of complications from the shooting (ie heart attack, etc) would Cheney be arrested for murder?
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Jim
I would think that involuntary manslaughter might be a possiblilty. But then, unlike the victim, I am not a lawyer.
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shazdancer
Do any of you hunters know how close Whittington had to be to have birdshot embedded in his chest, through his clothes?
Shaz
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HAPe4me
The news reports say he was approximately 30 yards (90 ft.) away. That is a little less than the distance from front to back of a city residential lot. Seems to me that Teflon Dick should have been able to see him at that distance, or he should not have been hunting at all.
~HAP
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topoftheworld
From what I understand, Whittington was in tall grass, not clear enough to be seen.
CNN's doing a poll on whether the VP should have come forward immediately or whether he didn't have too because the incident occured in his "private" time. Notice no one is mentioning Ted Kennedy and the incident that occured in his "private" time. The incidents themselves are not related other than both being accidents, but the delay in the release of information seems to be the same. At least old Teddy, under considerable preasure, finally made a statement.
I wonder if Cheney is just embarrassed (not to mention concerned about his friend) and would rather not face anybody. Unfortunately, the more he ducks (haha), the worse it gets.
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HAPe4me
Someone asked how far the victim was, I wonder if that 30 yards as reported distance would yield such a tight pattern of shot? Anyone?
I completely agree Kennedy deceitfully mishandled that accident too. no argument from me. He was thoroughly lambasted at the time for it by the press and politicians as was deserved. It likely was a determining factor in him never running for President. that was then, this is now.
Private time? pffft no such thing. After you accidently shoot someone, the first thing you do is make sure the victim has medical care. this takes 10 minutes when there is medical staff on hand already. After help has been secured, you report it (maybe call your lawyer first). Next I would go to the hospital to support my friend and offer moral support and prayers. Yoiu STAY there for the duration, grabbing whatever fare the cafeteria has to offer. You don'tsend your friend off in an ambulance and then go back to the ranch, have quail dinner or whatever, and talk about the weather. Who got to eat the victim's bird anyway?
~HAP
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skyrider
One of the news reports said that Cheney was hunting with a 28 guage shotgun. This lightweight shotgun is used for small bird/game hunting. On Fox News today, they illustrated the pattern of the small bbs on a silhouetted figure......and it was a fairly tight pattern (left jaw, neck and upper chest & shoulder. The closer the target (or unintended target), the tighter the pattern.
I am no expert......but I wouldn't be surprised if the two men were about 22 - 25 yards apart.
Gun experts will also note aspects of the primer, the powder, and the size of those bbs to measure the velocity of the shot traveling from gun to Whittington. In south Texas, I would think that Whittington would have been wearing lightweight hunting apparel.
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Stayed Too Long
That is some pretty tall grass for a man not to be clearly seen. Would love to have that stand of grass if I was a hay farmer.
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Stayed Too Long
Cheney accepts responsibilty for shooting hunter.
"You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and — it was not Harry's fault," he said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."
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HAPe4me
Ok, at least he is finally accepting blame, instead of the way his PR people tried to make it the victim's fault. Good for him. For awhile it looked like the message was "I did NOT have target practice on that man" :-D
I can let this rest now and chalk it up to a shamefully mishandled but unfortunate accident, whether he was sober or not at the time.
~HAP
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J0nny Ling0
For me, to sit in judgement on Dick Cheney over this issue would be terribly unfair. When we as humans go forth and do things that have an "element of danger to them", we run the risk of making mistakes and screwing up, and possibly having tragic consequences. One time I was hunting ducks, and my ten year old son Riley was with me. He was very excited about it, and overjoyed to "be with Dad" on the River where there were a ton of ducks. At one point, we snuck up on a "raft of ducks" (it was a tidal situation), and it was looking really good. They were Green Winged Teal, very good to eat, and I stood the chance of bagging three in that one incident if my aim was true. And then, as the ducks arose from the water at my "yell" (I could never shoot a sitting duck), My ten year old son Riley, in his excitement stepped dangerously forward of my twelve gage shotgun, and as the blast went off, he said that he had "felt the blast go by his head" and that it had scared him terribly.
And me? I was shaken to the very bone. I know the power of a twelve gage shotgun at close range. A twelve gage shotgun at close range can nearly cut a man in half. And to the head, well, I just shudder to think about it. In fact, every time I allow myself to "go there" in my mind to that incident with my precious Riley, I quake with fear, and just thank God that it did not end up as one of those incidents that we read about from time to time where a "Father Accidentally Shoots and Kills Son In Hunting Accident". Oh yes. To this day (and it was six years ago), everytime it crosses my mind, I ask God to help me not think about it. It is just way too much for me to bear even to think about, and I physically shake when it comes to mind as I ask God to relieve me. In fact, I have shunned going hunting with my boys since then, even though Riley does not know how close he came. If I told him about it, I think I would break into tears in the re-telling. We are humans, we phu ck up and sometimes the repercussions are more than negative. I am simply thankful that "the worst" did not happen to my sweet little "blue eyed son", for I would forever be singing; "Where have you gone my darling young one?"
And so, for me to judge Mr. Cheney? Well, I just won't do it. He has said that when he saw his friend go down, "he was horrified". Well, that's good enough for me, for, I truly feel his pain. Fortunately, my pain is not as bad as his...
And that's all I have to say about that.....
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topoftheworld
God, Jonny, I'm sooo sorry! That must have been a terrible experience, which, thank God, did not end tragedly for you. It's unfortunate that things like this can open a raw wound. I'm glad you shared this, and bless you both.
I'm sure all of us don't fault Cheney (all jokes aside) for what was obviously a terrible accident. Certain public figures just automatically wind up the butt of everybody's jokes, and he's certainly not an exception. I repeat my belief that he was probably horrified and embarrased: no matter how that stupid CNN poll turns out, I sure don't blame him for not running out to the nearest camera. I haven't seen the Fox report, just read excepts of it, so I can't judge his body language, but I'm sure it was difficult to get through. More so because it was "demanded".
Love ya, bro!
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J0nny Ling0
Thanks TOTW,
And, I too think that this whole thing has it's humorous side. I couldn't wait to see what Lenno had to say, and when I saw it, I laughed. But as far as the critical judgement about how and when the news about it got out, I don't care to judge him or the Whitehouse critically on it. And yeah, I did see that CNN poll, and took it as a matter of fact. At this point, a surprising 58% say that Cheney handled it the wrong way. Well, I think that it is just too bad that people think that they can sit back as arm chair quarterbacks and criticize someone who made a mistake like that if they have never been in that or a similar situation.
And as a matter of fact, the only One I have ever mentioned this to was God. Even my son doesn't even know how dangerous that situation was. I haven't and won't mention it to my wife for I know it will scare her to even think about it, and I guess also, I would be embarrased if she knew. But, I have shared it here, for, I am mostly anonymous. I am not likely to come face to face with those few here who do know me, so I thought I'd share it. Yeah, it was really scary, and like I said, I haven't really taken the boys hunting since. I probably ought to though, and just get over it...
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