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DMILLER....

I have been looking for you in chat...

OK, heres the deal with me...

Had several formative years of music training and never did anything useful with it after that...but, have the basic knowledge of reading music.

HAVE BEEN THINKING as of late of learning...or basically relearning an instrument. Guitar seems to be something I am relatively interested in, but also love to sing, and do have a decent singing voice.

Any suggestions to me?? and YES...am serious about learning even if I have to pay someone to teach me how.

Would appreciate your expertise and advice,

Dawn

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Thanx for that cool info on the Martin family of guitars.

While we're on the subject of "famous" guitars, how about the Gibson L-5 archtop?

Mother Maybelle Carter bought hers new in 1928 and used it for the rest of her life.

Not only was lots of musical history made with that guitar, lots of musical history was INSPIRED with that guitar. It sold recently for something like half a million bucks and if I remember correctly was then donated to The Country Music Hall of Fame. I'm not completely certain on those facts but verifying them is half the fun.

I wonder if my old Kay would be worth anything if I still had it?

"$5.00 once, $5.00 twice---------Sold to the man in the purple buckskin jacket."

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DMILLER....

I have been looking for you in chat...

OK, heres the deal with me...

Had several formative years of music training and never did anything useful with it after that...but, have the basic knowledge of reading music.

HAVE BEEN THINKING as of late of learning...or basically relearning an instrument. Guitar seems to be something I am relatively interested in, but also love to sing, and do have a decent singing voice.

Any suggestions to me?? and YES...am serious about learning even if I have to pay someone to teach me how.

Would appreciate your expertise and advice,

Dawn

Guitar would be the way to go. (imo), it's the easiest instrument to play, while singing.

If you have friends that pick already -- they will most likely offer advice *lessons*, for free. :)

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Waysider -- Yea -- the old Gibson arch tops! What instruments they were/ are!!!

Gibson has NEVER equaled Martin for tone and quality (my imo),

but I see all the *country stars* (cough!! hack!! wheeze!!),

these days playing J-200 Gibsons in their videos, on stage, etc.

I never did get that. I guess it's all for show. The stage effect.

EmmyLou Harris has several Gibson J-200's, all in different colors.

She matches the color of the guitar, with the color of whatever outfit she is wearing.

Give me a beat-up, old decrepite looking guitar that sounds good any day of the week.

I've played on the J-200's before, and they don't hold a candle to my Martin.

They are prettier to look at, but that's about it, in my IMO. :)

(A Gibson J-200 ~~~ nowhere near as good as the arch-tops of yesteryear).

hdr.jpg

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carterfamily01-189x182.jpg

From THIS SITE

An undisputed icon in country music history -- a Gibson L-5 acoustic guitar previously owned by Country Music Hall of Fame member Maybelle Carter -- is up for sale with a $575,000 price tag. Constructed in 1928, the archtop guitar is being offered by

Gruhn Guitars, a Nashville shop specializing in the sale of vintage stringed instruments.

George Gruhn, an internationally recognized authority on appraising instruments, describes it as "the most important single guitar in the entire history of country music."

Carter, who died in 1978, is the mother of the late June Carter Cash. Maybelle Carter first recorded in 1927 with her brother-in-law and sister-in-law, A.P. and Sara Carter, in Bristol, Tenn. Produced by talent scout Ralph Peer, those recordings of the Carters and Jimmie Rodgers became known as the Bristol Sessions and are widely acknowledged as the single event that sparked the development and popularity of country music.

In 1928 alone, the Carter Family released two of its most famous songs: "Wildwood Flower" and "Keep on the Sunny Side." In The Encyclopedia of Country Music, compiled by the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum, historian Charles Wolfe writes, "Maybelle Carter crafted the 'Carter lick' on the guitar and watched it become the best-known picking style in the genre."

In explaining the historic significance of Carter's L-5 guitar, Gruhn tells CMT.com, "It was the guitar she used for virtually all of her recordings from 1928 until she died. Virtually every classic Carter Family tune ever recorded, with the exception of the Bristol Sessions, was all done on this guitar."

Gruhn declined to discuss how the guitar came to be for sale although he did confirm that he is brokering it on behalf of a Carter heir. While many people have assumed that family members donated the guitar to the Country Music Hall of Fame, Gruhn says, "They never did. It was loaned."

In setting the asking price, Gruhn admits, "It is extremely difficult to come up with anything in the way of a true ironclad rule for pricing memorabilia. I can at least say that Bill Monroe's mandolin had a deal going at $1 million. That [deal]has kind of fallen through, but it's still the asking price for the mandolin."

All things considered, $575,000 doesn't sound like an unreasonable price. Gruhn explains, "By comparison to George Harrison's rosewood Telecaster [a Fender electric guitar] -- which went for over $900,000 at auction and was certainly not even his primary guitar -- it's a bargain. Or compared to Jerry Garcia's [Doug] Irwin guitar -- which was one of his primary guitars but certainly not his only one by any means -- that one went for $950,000 at auction. ... And while it's hard to compare Maybelle Carter with Jerry Garcia, the point is that Jerry had dozens of guitars and, frankly, Jerry didn't have such a unique style that everybody's copying the 'Garcia style.'"

(click the link above for the rest of the article). :)

Edited by dmiller
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Mr Music Man,

Now see what you did.. Had to go and listen to Maybelle... wow... amazing... and what a fantastic article...

and thanks for clarifying the size of Martins thingy. I remember my teacher's and her husband's guitars had cedar tops.

And I will certainly agree with you... Martins are a fine fine fine acoustic guitar ... with no comparison to any other guitar (IMO).

well here she is... Maybelle

Edited by A la prochaine
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Mr. Music Man...

Now you've done it... ala is falling into that YouTube Vortex... AGAIN...

As i was looking at the Carter Family videos.. I saw this man's music. NOW, there are no words to describe his music. It has surely survived the test of time. There are no words to explain the greatness of this legend. A shortened life due to personal turmoil, he certainly left a plethora of music.

Cold Cold Heart and more...

Norah doing the same.. yummy

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Love the Martin/Gibson discussion dmiller. Two things come to mind - sound and playability.

Sound - Martin's got the sound, no question about it. Generally louder than most Gibson models, brighter. Some of the big Gibson's have a deeper richer tone, although not as loud.

Another element is the scale length of the necks, the length of the neck itself. Was looking for a good explanation for those of us who might not be familiar with scale length - here's something:

Scale length influences both the sound and the feel of a guitar. A longer scale results in higher string tension, often giving a guitar more volume and punch than a short-scale instrument. However, the higher tension also makes the guitar a little harder to play, and the wider spacing between the frets necessitates longer reaches. If you use a lot of lowered tunings, you might find that the strings get a little too floppy on a short-scale guitar. It's a good idea to play a few guitars with varying scale lengths so you can see for yourself how these differences feel and sound. Ultimately though, it's important to remember that scale length is an integral part of an instrument's inherent sound. If you find yourself preferring the sound of one of the guitars you mentioned, scale length could be the reason.

Between the different brands and models, the scale length will definitely contribute to how one guitar will seem more playable over another to any one player. Players with long fingers, large hands may find a long scale neck more comfortable.

The shape of the neck, how it rests in the hand is another. Like for me, while I like the sound of a Martin, and a shorter scale neck on any guitar will be more comfortable, the shape of the neck is a factor. Martin has had the "V" and "modified V" shape, which at times feels foreign, uncomfortable. Yet it gives a different kind of efficiency with that shape, less wood filling the palm's "pocket".

For me, the instrument of choice is always a balance of all of these elements, plus others, like body size. Dreadnought is good for a big sound - but it's a big guitar and requires a longer reach around and over the body - both the big Gibsons and Martins present that condition.

I find a very stylized approach to playing, like Bluegrass or even say, metal "shredding" can adjust to many different body sizes, but less so on neck styles - because the right hand and arm tends to remain fixed. The left hand needs are different than the right, so where body size might not matter as much, neck components will.

For me the instrument of choice has to often accept some things that are ideal over other's that aren't, but I tend towards using the one(s) most playable for me, that I can do what I need and like to do on them, and from there I try to get the sound out of them I want. A short scale smaller body instrument is ideal for me, but has some limitations. So I have to adapt, either to get the sound or to the instrument.

The right instrument for the right person - that should be the slogan for our next successful Politician in the White House.

:biglaugh:

Edited by socks
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Another thought on the instrument choice too is - the musician makes the music, not the instrument. :biglaugh:

Not in conflict with your posts dmiller, as I know you are more than aware of that. But over the years I've known one guitarist after another who chases the guitars instead of the music. Buys whatever so-and-so has or had and expects to get that sound, but can't play or produce the sound or anything near it and won't put in the work to get the technique or the sound. But oh, they feel they've got "it" down now, because they spent the money.

I think it's true, the musician's effort on the instrument goes further than simply having the "right" one. We've got some local Bluegrass and Jazz pickers I've seen who thwack away on their Martins and old Gibosn L-5 electrics and just can't "do it" but they've got the right box for sure, the Roland or old Ampeg amp, the thick picks, etc. etc.

I think of electric guitarists like Roy Buchanan, and his old Telecaster. If I described his various sounds in words, a Telecaster probably wouldn't be the guitar that would come to mind. Tele's make people think of twicky country sounds, yet Buchanan got a myriad of sounds out of his. They're often used for seemingly disparate styles, jazz, country, rock.

But RB got everything he got out of a Tele and a Fender Vibro Reverb amp on 10 with a little reverb. Other than that it was all in his hands and musical knowledge, getting so often what "wasn't there' to begin with. Anymore musicians don't always do that, they can buy the stuff and "be there" right out of the gate, equipment wise. But ya gotta do the work. :biglaugh:

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Not in conflict with your posts dmiller, as I know you are more than aware of that. But over the years I've known one guitarist after another who chases the guitars instead of the music. Buys whatever so-and-so has or had and expects to get that sound, but can't play or produce the sound or anything near it and won't put in the work to get the technique or the sound. But oh, they feel they've got "it" down now, because they spent the money.

I hear you there Sockster. That's why I have only ever owned one guitar since the age of 14 and am still trying to get it right (playing wise). I figure, if I'm not playing up to snuff, well then, I should stick to my Pontiac rather run out and buy that sleek BMW.

I was going to post a poop-load of stuff last night while i was drowning in my youtube tsunami (thanks to YOU KNOW WHO! <_< )

but i decided I'd wait. I was into looking at some of the music that was a part of my life...way way way back when i was even too young to buy my first 45 or album. The stuff my parents had playing in the house, and that I still love.

OK... now you've taunted me ... I'll give you a taste. Now remember I grew up in a francophone household, even though I lived in an anglophone community.

First of all... I saw this... this woman sings with some of the greatest passion

and of course the famous... Milord

She was all of 4'8" and was France's greatest singer. She lived a horrible childhood. She was born on the streets of Paris... actually born under a lampost and from the ages 3-6 or more lived in a Brothel of her aunts. Her voice carries the turmoil she survived. Like a french version of Billie Holliday. She was discovered singing on the streets at 16 yrs. old in some of the worse sections of Paris.

Edited by A la prochaine
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Every coin has two sides. Remember when VeePee recorded a recitation of "The Touch of the Masters' Hand"? Heck, I think Socks probably PLAYED on that album. The old violin seemed worthless until "The Master" picked it up and displayed its true worth. Of course, the poem is really about Gods' relationship with his children but HEY, this is "Guitar Talk"

My hands are fairly small(not for my overall build, but for the general construction of instruments in general). That's why a short scale(distance from nut to bridge) seems to work better for me. I think this is something that bass players are more cognizant of than guitar players. Those big 36 inch 6 string jobs are way beyond my range of comfort.

Now when it comes to pure sound, I think that is why harmonica players are so resistant to try "high tech" devises. I saw a guy last summer named Bill Miller(stage name: Mr. Stress) who has been around for probably about 40 years. He was using a POD and getting all kinds of cool effects.

He was playing in a biker bar if that lends any insight to the discussion. He told me that the special effects seem to be what the patrons seem to want and who is he to argue with the customer. He was a very cordial guy.

Now the other side of the coin. It seems to help me to get a new gizmo or gadget from time to time(like a pedal or modeler) to keep me "inspired" to stick with the music and not drift away.

There is always a fine line to walk between personal ability and constraints of the instrument.

Maybe that's what keeps playing music such an invigorating and rewarding endeavor.

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Not in conflict with your posts dmiller, as I know you are more than aware of that. But over the years I've known one guitarist after another who chases the guitars instead of the music. Buys whatever so-and-so has or had and expects to get that sound, but can't play or produce the sound or anything near it and won't put in the work to get the technique or the sound. But oh, they feel they've got "it" down now, because they spent the money.

I think it's true, the musician's effort on the instrument goes further than simply having the "right" one. We've got some local Bluegrass and Jazz pickers I've seen who thwack away on their Martins and old Gibosn L-5 electrics and just can't "do it" but they've got the right box for sure, the Roland or old Ampeg amp, the thick picks, etc. etc.

Well--- for what it's worth, you just described ME, 35 or so years ago!!

If I JUST had a (insert instrument of choice here),

I'd sound like (insert artist of choice here)! :redface:

However -- I have since seen the light!! I no longer chase after *famous* instruments.

Sound is everything. It could say Kay on the headstock, but if it sounded good - who cares.

That's why I'm leary of getting instruments off of the internet, when they come up for sale.

Pics of them look great, the descriptiion of them sounds wonderful --- BUT,

it doesn't mean a thing if you can't hold it in your lap, or strap it over your shoulder,

and pick it the way you are used to picking -- and REALLY hear how it sounds.

Like you and Waysider said -- it takes *time in the woodshed* to perfect the chops.

When I got my D-35, I was lucky enough to be able to bring it home for a few days.

I had *guitar-chased* for a few years before that, and had several Gibson's (bought solely for the name).

I took the D-35 to a friend's house (they had an EXCEPTIONAL D-18),

and we compared the two against each other for sound, playability, etc.

His sounded better, but it was 20 years older so the wood had matured more.

The one I was looking at stacked up really well compared to his, so I bought it.

That was the first time I'd objectively looked for quality vs. name brand recognition.

I haven't bought another guitar since. :)

But I knew that no guitar licks were included in the purchase.

The rest was up to me. ;)

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Not to derail y'all here or nuttin'.... but.... I gotta brag on my youngest - he just turned 2 years old on the 14th (yup, Valentine's Day)...

Now, if you're wonderin' about what this has to do with gee-tars, look closely at what he's sitting on in this pic...

DSCF1509-copy.jpg

Andreas is growing so fast - his favorite hobby is knob tweaking!

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Whoa, Chas !!!!! Great looking kid!!! And a love child…er…well born on Valentine’s Day anyway…It looks like he’s training to be Pete Townshend’s understudy.

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I was going to post a poop-load of stuff last night while i was drowning in my youtube tsunami

(thanks to YOU KNOW WHO!) <_<

but i decided I'd wait. I was into looking at some of the music that was a part of my life...way way way back when i was even too young to buy my first 45 or album. The stuff my parents had playing in the house, and that I still love.

OK... now you've taunted me ... I'll give you a taste. Now remember I grew up in a francophone household, even though I lived in an anglophone community.

Hey -- YOU make the desicions for the sites you click on..

Don't blame me for you tube! :biglaugh:

And I think the words I highlighted in red, should be ---

francophile and anglophile.

Otherwise Oenophile would be called Oenophone. ;)

Edited by dmiller
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Had to say something about guitars. Yes I do agree that it's not what you are playing it's how you are playing it. And to add a further point you want someting that is going to stand up to wear, tear, and weather.

Last week I was in Key West. It's full of bars where you will see three or four guitarists strut their stuff every day of the week.

I noticed most of them were Tackamine. So I asked a few why they were using them and all said the same thing. They stand up to rugged conditions with little maitenance.

It made me realize I didn't make such a bad decison after all to buy one several years ago. It's not the most expensive but it has never given me a problem. They sound great amplified too.

Speaking of good guitarists (steel guitar in this case)I heard a good one in Key West. When I asked him where he was from he told me Toronto (my home town). I had never seen him before but he rocks out the blues. You meet people in the strangest places. His name is Michael Pickett. Check him out on Yuotube.

I got asked to play in a bar called Captain Tony's (it's sort of a famous "Jimmy Buffet" type bar). I had heard all kinds of Buffet tunes there that day so I decided to do some Hank Williams. They loved it. Nothing like the old stuff.

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