Good topic, Belle....I have a distinct memory soon after we left TWI. I was in a supermarket - the "outside world" was still scary, foreign, strange - I felt naked outside of some protective bubble. As I looked at people while strolling up and down the aisles - I was fighting back tears . The reason I was getting all choked up - I was beginning to notice how beautiful - and non-threatening everyone looked. I may have been holding back tears of shame - at the attitude I held about everyone outside of TWI.
At one point, Johnny Cash felt inspired to perform for prisoners. His manager responded that it wouldn't go over very well with a majority of his fans who happend to be Christians.
Johnny Cash replied "Then they aren't Christians."
"Hate" seems pretty stong Belle. I speak for myself and my time from 77 - 82.
How about "dislike to the point of ridicule"? Did it evolve to actual hatred later on?
In any case, even back in the good old daze, it seems that "love" [sic] was reserved only for those within that complied - and for those prospects who might potentially sign a green card.
In any case, even back in the good old daze, it seems that "love" [sic] was reserved only for those within that complied - and for those prospects who might potentially sign a green card.
Yeah. I remember being 'reproved' over and over again when I gave outside of twi. I would always bring up 'the two great commandments'...and always, no matter who was speaking or where we were at, always the response was, "It says 'love your neighbor'. That means only those you know are in the body." Of course, my next questions were along the line of, "Hmm. And how do we, who are not God, know who has or has not dechomaied?" And the response would always be, "If you hear them SIT in twig after they've taken the class, then you know they're your neighbor."
Sheesh. I just realized that based on this mentality, much less than 44,000 will make it to the final resurrection.
I agree....'hate' is a bit over the top. How about disagree strongly. Otherwise Jesus would have 'hated' religious leaders, slothful people, them who caused young ones to stumble, people with unbelief (or weak believing) etc..
In fact, by that definition Jesus would have been walking around FULL of hatred !
I agree....'hate' is a bit over the top. How about disagree strongly. Otherwise Jesus would have 'hated' religious leaders, slothful people, them who caused young ones to stumble, people with unbelief (or weak believing) etc..
In fact, by that definition Jesus would have been walking around FULL of hatred !
Alan, it was much more than "disagree strongly". Strong disagreement is not necessarily accompanied with arrogance, smug elitism, condemnation, and ridicule ( among other things). Jesus did not exhibit these things when he "strongly disagreed".
I agree....'hate' is a bit over the top. How about disagree strongly. Otherwise Jesus would have 'hated' religious leaders, slothful people, them who caused young ones to stumble, people with unbelief (or weak believing) etc..
In fact, by that definition Jesus would have been walking around FULL of hatred !
allan
Is it 'disagreeing strongly' to mock, ridicule, shame and deny basic needs?
Don't tell me you never did such things...because you do such things right here on these threads.
And DON'T EVEN try to convince yourself that what twi taught about those outside of the bubble came anywhere close to the mindset of Jesus. You can't really be that brainwashed. Trying to argue the point of twi's hatred as anything like Jesus only makes you look willfully stupid.
So, can you join the conversation and add something to this thread by actually looking at the question?
Please ignore him. It's futile to try to have a mature, mutually respectful conversation with him. :) Although he does serve as a great example of how all of us involved with TWI in the 90's behaved. Thankfully, most of us grew out of that.
Goey, I do think "hate" is appropriate for those of us under craig's regime. That's my opinion and others may disagree, but you've seen and heard how he yelled about homosexuals from here - it was that way about everyone else and it was constant. It came from the WC, from the HFC's, from each other.... hate permeated TWI during the 90's. At least that's what I'd call it.
I've got some audio cassettes of him teaching and have been planning to pull some quotes from it sometime. I'll try to hurry up with that. If I knew how to make those sound bites from them, I'd do that because the volume, intensity and pure rage in his voice could never come across in written form.
What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive.
Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.
OK, OM...can you look at what was done? The racist, bigoted jokes. The rabid frothing at the mouth 'reproof' about 'charity'. The very teachings, "If a man wants to go to hell, let him go to hell." and "You can't offend a dead man."
And, btw, 'moving the word' is not a definition 'love' in the bible.
T-Bone - my heart breaks when I read your post. It had to be an overwhelming feeling to make you choked up - our own cyber comedian hurting - not a pleasant thought.... :( I do relate, though. I think part of it is that we were afraid of those folks because deep down we knew we were lying and we knew they knew it too.
OutAndAbout - I've been wanting to see that movie and haven't yet.
Johnny Cash replied "Then they aren't Christians."
I love it!! I used to say we weren't acting like Christians all the time and my ex would get so mad at me and correct me because WE were "moving the word" which is bigger and better than anything some nasty ole church was doing.
What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive.
Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.
Who's "Prime Directive?
I agree though, "love" [sic] was indeed equated with the movement of "the word" [sic].
Many of us did did indeed mistakenly equate God's love with promoting & selling PFAL classes. How much of "the Word" was really "moved" is highy debatable.
BUT, I still find myself jumping back into that “annoyed” mode or hateful and judgemental TWIt way of thinking occasionally….especially when I’m very tired. Do you? How do you handle it when those thoughts creep in? Or are you totally “over it”? wink2.gif [/i
Yes and I have had much counselling to get rid of my angry attitude.
I have found it very helpful in dealing with the current situation I am in at my church. I refuse to jump back into that pharasitical attitude that we were all taught to adopt in TWI. I now try to look at things from the other persons perspective more before going on the attack.
That is not always easy. Like I said in another topic I am currently dealing with the youth minister calling me a heretic because I don't believe in the trinity. Before I get too much on my high horse I remind myself how fiercely I used to "defend" my TWI doctrine while in TWI. We are all human.
It is a good saying that "you catch more flys with honey". We will never soften peoples hearts by trying to shove our beliefs down their throats, it will actually have the opposite effect. We soften their hearts by overlooking what we perceive to be their shortcomings and treating every person with love and respect, and by meeting people where they are at.
We left because we finally realized that there was no real love in twi. Belle I would agree that the words and decibels used by loy in the 90's did communicate hate. (Though we didn't think so at the time.)
I am still struggling with the super-critical judgemental point of view that I acquired during my time in twi.
I also remember walking into a store and having this big feeling of relief flood over me. I was a "normal" person - someone who didn't have to be better than anyone else--someone that was just going to go shopping and enjoy myself. (It was a wierd realization after all those years of being told to witness while running errands lol)
I would love for some of you earlier outies to have been at some of the STS that we went too. You would have been astounded at the yelling and spewing from the stage. Something to experience - you would not have thought that it was the same ministry that you had been involved with. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the same. And they flaunted that, the new and improved ministry. The true household of God.
I remember when I finally got to speak with a HFC about going back to fellowship, it was a Sunday morning. After my "interview" to see if I was "worthy" to come back (I had to swear that I never had bad mouthed the ministry during the fog years - which I hadn't) he said that I might as well jump right back in and attend STS that day. From that point on my life was booked solid with ministry events. Anyways, my first STS back was LCM spewing hate about homosexuals and those who were currently having their "evil deeds exposed" by their loving "confrontations". Everything was about confronting everyone. This was an open service. Yet, I continued to go back. I thought I was doing the best thing for my oldest daughter (about 16 at the time I guess). I wanted her to take the PFAL class.
Just a week or so later, my HFC insisted I listen to the tape about the WOW program being cancelled and the sex orgies that had gone on during the Rock almost to give me a background of why the minstry had gotten to the confrontation phase. It made sense at the time.
In my mind I was still thinking of the loving TWI that I had been a part of. That was my mind set. That is why I never bad mouthed during the fog years. I didn't understand enough of what was going on. It took me awhile in TWI2 for some reason to see the hatred but it was there (at least on LCM's part).
I remember that first service back and LCM started to go off. My "new" HFC was looking at me periodically to see how I was reacting to this. My 16 year old was there too. That was part of being able to go back. I had to commit to her being a part of everything because it was cohesive family units that they wanted in this new and improved ministry. I was taken aback at first, but after awhile it seemed like he was being so bold and spritual and everyone was laughing and applauding when he spewed this stuff. Now looking back I don't understand why I would stay. I think my mind was still thinking that this was the Way that I knew and loved. I wish I could understand and explain to you why I stayed. I can't. But as the months went by, I started to think that things just weren't right.
The biggest thing that stuck out at me was the Worship of the leaders This is what ultimately and finally got to me and made me sick. I think I was actually relieved when I was marked and avoided after almost three years. I just could not handle the MOG worship.
Lord listen to me go on, uh what was the question again Belle?..........oh that's right, yes there was hate in LCM...........
Post away!!! It feels good, doesn't it? I'm enthralled, reading your post over and over imagining how shocking it must have been and yet, also, confusion and concern because you really thought you were doing the right things for you and your family. They really F***ed with our heads, didn't they?
I don't think I knew as a HFC what it felt like to be blasted in confrontations - until it happened to me. When it started happening to us, the screaming and name calling. Leadership gettiing in ALL of our personal business and then instead of helping us they would belittle us. We really thought there was something really, really wrong with us.
We decided to move - we needed a fresh start. We knew too much about other people's crap and it was effecting our walk with God. Plus, we were dealing with our own "weaknesses" and wanted to have time to get ourselves together without the pressure of having everyone else know our business. ( Because, you were talked about behind your back by the very people who were supposed to love you)
We had our eyes opened very wide when we moved. It got worse - we were no longer in "the Cliche". Our new leadership decided to call our old leadership. Nothing was told about us specifically, but was told that "our area sucked and they're shutting it down".
So, we were labelled as "be on watch with them" - "they came from that area". Of course our Limb co-or went around running his mouth about us. So, our first limb mtg - 2 people out aprox.125 spoke to us.
Although, that sucked I have to say that was the best thing that ever happened to us. We now knew what it flet like to treated like dirt, scum of the earth, and . I refused to treat anyone like that ever again.
Even though I'm still in - I guess I have been de-programing for quite sometime.
So, we were labelled as "be on watch with them" - "they came from that area". Of course our Limb co-or went around running his mouth about us. So, our first limb mtg - 2 people out aprox.125 spoke to us.
ahhhh.... THE LOVE OF GOD IN THE RENEWED MIND IN MANIFESTATION!
glad you made it here djs... 2 out of approx. 125! sheesh... you'll certainly get more than that here!
I'm just wondering what you're sticking around for (in TWI, that is)?
That incident happened about 8 years ago. Why am I staying around - I'm not sure yet. I'm not afraid something bad is going to happen or anything. I think for myself and study much outside of TWI doc. so I know that nothing like that will happen. Atleast, not from the awesome God that I worship.
I guess I'm not fully convinced one way or the other yet or maybe I'm waiting for something better to come my way. The problem is - I'm not sure what I'm looking for or what I want to satsify my spiritual needs.
My fellowship is really great, it's one of the best hhf's I've been apart of. We do things outside the box and my hhf co-or is a rebel of sorts and does things his own way and for the people. He doesn't get messed with because he knows how to throw down and not get walked on. He commands a lot of well earned respect.
As far as the organization itself, I'm totally over it all. I've seen enough change to think it will change but I know now that it will problaly not. The silence from the top is deafing and speaking louder than bland crap that is coming from the stage on Sundays. It's giving off a feeling of emptiness - I don't how else to explain it. I keep waiting for more......excitement, passion, a loving warmth, and personality from people who love God and really live this stuff.
They live in a world of fear(or denial or both) they should apologize to people still in and especially to those who have left or thrown out with their hearts cut open and bleeding to death. For whatever reason they have not or will not.
I think it's fear of lawsuits etc. but either God is God and the protector or he is not. There might be some bumps along the way but GOD IS GOD. His protection will be there for doing the right thing.
I guess the best answer is ............I'm working it out!!!!! My husband is getting there too - we are starting to turn on the same page. The answer would be clearer if our fellowship sucked.
It was 1985 and I was in the Philippines to take the Advanced Class. I remember most clearly coming back into the Manila airport for departure and there were gathered all along the road people who were deformed, amputated, gaunt from hunger, women with babies in their arms with all of these conditions, all with their hands out, begging for anything anyone could give. Here I was, an Advanced Class Grad! (ta-da!) ...SO spiritually 'heavy', thinking and acting exactly as I had been trained... Smugly resisting the deeply buried urge to reach out and help those poor people with whatever I had. No time to give anyone fishing lessons and certainly not inclined to give out any fish.
Indeed... Where was the love?
A few months later... Sunday morning fellowship up at the Branch house... afterward, everyone spread out with their coffee and conversations and I was standing in the dining area talking about something with the leader when a really nice Hawaiian lady named Julie came up to us looking for all the world just like a little girl who'd been searching for her lost doll and asked, eyes wide...
"Where's the love???"
Hit me like a ton of bibles. We never used the term "convicted" much in our area of twi or other areas I think but that question hit me square in the heart and I knew! We had all the research books, all the concordances and interlinear, all the tapes and films and magazines... we had knowledge, and if you shot that morning with a camcorder you could have sent the tape to HQ proudly as an example of a great fellowship meeting. O yeah, but underneath it all she was right to ask. We were just as hard hearted, maybe even more so, as any 'rank unbeliever' (remember that one?) off the street. She had to ask because there was none to be found!
If you want the best yardstick for any group/fellowship/church, this is it:
djs, the good fellowship that I was involved in is the main reason I stayed. I overlooked the ranting and raving and cussing, etc. because of my sweet 'family'. But then I had to leave before I was kicked out due to my fiance' living with me. I had never been kicked out of anything in my life, and at 38 years old, I wasnt about to now. So I left.
free2love, I understand where you are coming from also. When I finally left in 1994, I had become embarrassed to set thru another SNS tape. I never brought a new person to fellowship for many years. I didnt want anyone to know the 'truth' that I knew. hahahah.... yeah right. The one and only true ministry that I fell for.
My life has improved so much since then, it is unreal. God is still answering my prayers, and I have learned how to ask HIM for HIS will in my life, instead of TELLING Him what is BEST. Humbleness and meekness are a part of my life now, whereas during my time with The Way International it was haughtiness and self righteousness that we learned FROM THE TOP leadership.
Gee, I always thought the Prime Directive was "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart, soul, mind and strength." Too bad Jesus didn't have PFAL to peddle. :blink:
I've been starting to study the Bible again, due to a Ladies Bible class on Proverbs. The class on Pride, the sneaky sin, really hit me between the eyes. So I thought when I read this thread, pride and hate, versus humility and love. Seems I have a lot of work to do...on ME.
The 90's were blatantly about pride and hate. Probably well before that, too, but it was more subtle, to me anyway, so I'm just now realizing how far away from love I really was.
But I strongly believe in God's mercy and grace to teach me to be what He wants me to be.
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T-Bone
Good topic, Belle....I have a distinct memory soon after we left TWI. I was in a supermarket - the "outside world" was still scary, foreign, strange - I felt naked outside of some protective bubble. As I looked at people while strolling up and down the aisles - I was fighting back tears . The reason I was getting all choked up - I was beginning to notice how beautiful - and non-threatening everyone looked. I may have been holding back tears of shame - at the attitude I held about everyone outside of TWI.
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outandabout
I just watched "Walk the Line."
At one point, Johnny Cash felt inspired to perform for prisoners. His manager responded that it wouldn't go over very well with a majority of his fans who happend to be Christians.
Johnny Cash replied "Then they aren't Christians."
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Goey
"Hate" seems pretty stong Belle. I speak for myself and my time from 77 - 82.
How about "dislike to the point of ridicule"? Did it evolve to actual hatred later on?
In any case, even back in the good old daze, it seems that "love" [sic] was reserved only for those within that complied - and for those prospects who might potentially sign a green card.
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CoolWaters
Yeah. I remember being 'reproved' over and over again when I gave outside of twi. I would always bring up 'the two great commandments'...and always, no matter who was speaking or where we were at, always the response was, "It says 'love your neighbor'. That means only those you know are in the body." Of course, my next questions were along the line of, "Hmm. And how do we, who are not God, know who has or has not dechomaied?" And the response would always be, "If you hear them SIT in twig after they've taken the class, then you know they're your neighbor."
Sheesh. I just realized that based on this mentality, much less than 44,000 will make it to the final resurrection.
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allan w.
I agree....'hate' is a bit over the top. How about disagree strongly. Otherwise Jesus would have 'hated' religious leaders, slothful people, them who caused young ones to stumble, people with unbelief (or weak believing) etc..
In fact, by that definition Jesus would have been walking around FULL of hatred !
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Goey
Alan, it was much more than "disagree strongly". Strong disagreement is not necessarily accompanied with arrogance, smug elitism, condemnation, and ridicule ( among other things). Jesus did not exhibit these things when he "strongly disagreed".
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CoolWaters
allan
Is it 'disagreeing strongly' to mock, ridicule, shame and deny basic needs?
Don't tell me you never did such things...because you do such things right here on these threads.
And DON'T EVEN try to convince yourself that what twi taught about those outside of the bubble came anywhere close to the mindset of Jesus. You can't really be that brainwashed. Trying to argue the point of twi's hatred as anything like Jesus only makes you look willfully stupid.
So, can you join the conversation and add something to this thread by actually looking at the question?
allan, if it isn't hate, where is the love?
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oldiesman
I wouldn't call what we didn't do "hate".
What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive.
Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.
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Belle
Please ignore him. It's futile to try to have a mature, mutually respectful conversation with him. :) Although he does serve as a great example of how all of us involved with TWI in the 90's behaved. Thankfully, most of us grew out of that.
Goey, I do think "hate" is appropriate for those of us under craig's regime. That's my opinion and others may disagree, but you've seen and heard how he yelled about homosexuals from here - it was that way about everyone else and it was constant. It came from the WC, from the HFC's, from each other.... hate permeated TWI during the 90's. At least that's what I'd call it.
I've got some audio cassettes of him teaching and have been planning to pull some quotes from it sometime. I'll try to hurry up with that. If I knew how to make those sound bites from them, I'd do that because the volume, intensity and pure rage in his voice could never come across in written form.
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CoolWaters
OK, OM...can you look at what was done? The racist, bigoted jokes. The rabid frothing at the mouth 'reproof' about 'charity'. The very teachings, "If a man wants to go to hell, let him go to hell." and "You can't offend a dead man."
And, btw, 'moving the word' is not a definition 'love' in the bible.
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Belle
T-Bone - my heart breaks when I read your post. It had to be an overwhelming feeling to make you choked up - our own cyber comedian hurting - not a pleasant thought.... :( I do relate, though. I think part of it is that we were afraid of those folks because deep down we knew we were lying and we knew they knew it too.
OutAndAbout - I've been wanting to see that movie and haven't yet.
I love it!! I used to say we weren't acting like Christians all the time and my ex would get so mad at me and correct me because WE were "moving the word" which is bigger and better than anything some nasty ole church was doing.
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Goey
I agree though, "love" [sic] was indeed equated with the movement of "the word" [sic].
Many of us did did indeed mistakenly equate God's love with promoting & selling PFAL classes. How much of "the Word" was really "moved" is highy debatable.
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JWitt
Quote
BUT, I still find myself jumping back into that “annoyed” mode or hateful and judgemental TWIt way of thinking occasionally….especially when I’m very tired. Do you? How do you handle it when those thoughts creep in? Or are you totally “over it”? wink2.gif [/i
Yes and I have had much counselling to get rid of my angry attitude.
I have found it very helpful in dealing with the current situation I am in at my church. I refuse to jump back into that pharasitical attitude that we were all taught to adopt in TWI. I now try to look at things from the other persons perspective more before going on the attack.
That is not always easy. Like I said in another topic I am currently dealing with the youth minister calling me a heretic because I don't believe in the trinity. Before I get too much on my high horse I remind myself how fiercely I used to "defend" my TWI doctrine while in TWI. We are all human.
It is a good saying that "you catch more flys with honey". We will never soften peoples hearts by trying to shove our beliefs down their throats, it will actually have the opposite effect. We soften their hearts by overlooking what we perceive to be their shortcomings and treating every person with love and respect, and by meeting people where they are at.
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penguin
We left because we finally realized that there was no real love in twi. Belle I would agree that the words and decibels used by loy in the 90's did communicate hate. (Though we didn't think so at the time.)
I am still struggling with the super-critical judgemental point of view that I acquired during my time in twi.
I also remember walking into a store and having this big feeling of relief flood over me. I was a "normal" person - someone who didn't have to be better than anyone else--someone that was just going to go shopping and enjoy myself. (It was a wierd realization after all those years of being told to witness while running errands lol)
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templelady
Yeah we all were -it's just "the" word we were actually moving wasn't "THE" Word we should have been moving
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outofdafog
I would love for some of you earlier outies to have been at some of the STS that we went too. You would have been astounded at the yelling and spewing from the stage. Something to experience - you would not have thought that it was the same ministry that you had been involved with. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the same. And they flaunted that, the new and improved ministry. The true household of God.
I remember when I finally got to speak with a HFC about going back to fellowship, it was a Sunday morning. After my "interview" to see if I was "worthy" to come back (I had to swear that I never had bad mouthed the ministry during the fog years - which I hadn't) he said that I might as well jump right back in and attend STS that day. From that point on my life was booked solid with ministry events. Anyways, my first STS back was LCM spewing hate about homosexuals and those who were currently having their "evil deeds exposed" by their loving "confrontations". Everything was about confronting everyone. This was an open service. Yet, I continued to go back. I thought I was doing the best thing for my oldest daughter (about 16 at the time I guess). I wanted her to take the PFAL class.
Just a week or so later, my HFC insisted I listen to the tape about the WOW program being cancelled and the sex orgies that had gone on during the Rock almost to give me a background of why the minstry had gotten to the confrontation phase. It made sense at the time.
In my mind I was still thinking of the loving TWI that I had been a part of. That was my mind set. That is why I never bad mouthed during the fog years. I didn't understand enough of what was going on. It took me awhile in TWI2 for some reason to see the hatred but it was there (at least on LCM's part).
I remember that first service back and LCM started to go off. My "new" HFC was looking at me periodically to see how I was reacting to this. My 16 year old was there too. That was part of being able to go back. I had to commit to her being a part of everything because it was cohesive family units that they wanted in this new and improved ministry. I was taken aback at first, but after awhile it seemed like he was being so bold and spritual and everyone was laughing and applauding when he spewed this stuff. Now looking back I don't understand why I would stay. I think my mind was still thinking that this was the Way that I knew and loved. I wish I could understand and explain to you why I stayed. I can't. But as the months went by, I started to think that things just weren't right.
The biggest thing that stuck out at me was the Worship of the leaders This is what ultimately and finally got to me and made me sick. I think I was actually relieved when I was marked and avoided after almost three years. I just could not handle the MOG worship.
Lord listen to me go on, uh what was the question again Belle?..........oh that's right, yes there was hate in LCM...........
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Belle
(((((OutofDaFog)))))
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outofdafog
Thanks Belle..............you truly are a southern lady :)
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djs
I don't think I knew as a HFC what it felt like to be blasted in confrontations - until it happened to me. When it started happening to us, the screaming and name calling. Leadership gettiing in ALL of our personal business and then instead of helping us they would belittle us. We really thought there was something really, really wrong with us.
We decided to move - we needed a fresh start. We knew too much about other people's crap and it was effecting our walk with God. Plus, we were dealing with our own "weaknesses" and wanted to have time to get ourselves together without the pressure of having everyone else know our business. ( Because, you were talked about behind your back by the very people who were supposed to love you)
We had our eyes opened very wide when we moved. It got worse - we were no longer in "the Cliche". Our new leadership decided to call our old leadership. Nothing was told about us specifically, but was told that "our area sucked and they're shutting it down".
So, we were labelled as "be on watch with them" - "they came from that area". Of course our Limb co-or went around running his mouth about us. So, our first limb mtg - 2 people out aprox.125 spoke to us.
Although, that sucked I have to say that was the best thing that ever happened to us. We now knew what it flet like to treated like dirt, scum of the earth, and . I refused to treat anyone like that ever again.
Even though I'm still in - I guess I have been de-programing for quite sometime.
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Tom Strange
ahhhh.... THE LOVE OF GOD IN THE RENEWED MIND IN MANIFESTATION!
glad you made it here djs... 2 out of approx. 125! sheesh... you'll certainly get more than that here!
I'm just wondering what you're sticking around for (in TWI, that is)?
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djs
Dear Tom,
That incident happened about 8 years ago. Why am I staying around - I'm not sure yet. I'm not afraid something bad is going to happen or anything. I think for myself and study much outside of TWI doc. so I know that nothing like that will happen. Atleast, not from the awesome God that I worship.
I guess I'm not fully convinced one way or the other yet or maybe I'm waiting for something better to come my way. The problem is - I'm not sure what I'm looking for or what I want to satsify my spiritual needs.
My fellowship is really great, it's one of the best hhf's I've been apart of. We do things outside the box and my hhf co-or is a rebel of sorts and does things his own way and for the people. He doesn't get messed with because he knows how to throw down and not get walked on. He commands a lot of well earned respect.
As far as the organization itself, I'm totally over it all. I've seen enough change to think it will change but I know now that it will problaly not. The silence from the top is deafing and speaking louder than bland crap that is coming from the stage on Sundays. It's giving off a feeling of emptiness - I don't how else to explain it. I keep waiting for more......excitement, passion, a loving warmth, and personality from people who love God and really live this stuff.
They live in a world of fear(or denial or both) they should apologize to people still in and especially to those who have left or thrown out with their hearts cut open and bleeding to death. For whatever reason they have not or will not.
I think it's fear of lawsuits etc. but either God is God and the protector or he is not. There might be some bumps along the way but GOD IS GOD. His protection will be there for doing the right thing.
I guess the best answer is ............I'm working it out!!!!! My husband is getting there too - we are starting to turn on the same page. The answer would be clearer if our fellowship sucked.
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free2love
It was 1985 and I was in the Philippines to take the Advanced Class. I remember most clearly coming back into the Manila airport for departure and there were gathered all along the road people who were deformed, amputated, gaunt from hunger, women with babies in their arms with all of these conditions, all with their hands out, begging for anything anyone could give. Here I was, an Advanced Class Grad! (ta-da!) ...SO spiritually 'heavy', thinking and acting exactly as I had been trained... Smugly resisting the deeply buried urge to reach out and help those poor people with whatever I had. No time to give anyone fishing lessons and certainly not inclined to give out any fish.
Indeed... Where was the love?
A few months later... Sunday morning fellowship up at the Branch house... afterward, everyone spread out with their coffee and conversations and I was standing in the dining area talking about something with the leader when a really nice Hawaiian lady named Julie came up to us looking for all the world just like a little girl who'd been searching for her lost doll and asked, eyes wide...
"Where's the love???"
Hit me like a ton of bibles. We never used the term "convicted" much in our area of twi or other areas I think but that question hit me square in the heart and I knew! We had all the research books, all the concordances and interlinear, all the tapes and films and magazines... we had knowledge, and if you shot that morning with a camcorder you could have sent the tape to HQ proudly as an example of a great fellowship meeting. O yeah, but underneath it all she was right to ask. We were just as hard hearted, maybe even more so, as any 'rank unbeliever' (remember that one?) off the street. She had to ask because there was none to be found!
If you want the best yardstick for any group/fellowship/church, this is it:
Where is the love?
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act2
djs, the good fellowship that I was involved in is the main reason I stayed. I overlooked the ranting and raving and cussing, etc. because of my sweet 'family'. But then I had to leave before I was kicked out due to my fiance' living with me. I had never been kicked out of anything in my life, and at 38 years old, I wasnt about to now. So I left.
free2love, I understand where you are coming from also. When I finally left in 1994, I had become embarrassed to set thru another SNS tape. I never brought a new person to fellowship for many years. I didnt want anyone to know the 'truth' that I knew. hahahah.... yeah right. The one and only true ministry that I fell for.
My life has improved so much since then, it is unreal. God is still answering my prayers, and I have learned how to ask HIM for HIS will in my life, instead of TELLING Him what is BEST. Humbleness and meekness are a part of my life now, whereas during my time with The Way International it was haughtiness and self righteousness that we learned FROM THE TOP leadership.
Have a wonderful day.
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Watered Garden
Gee, I always thought the Prime Directive was "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart, soul, mind and strength." Too bad Jesus didn't have PFAL to peddle. :blink:
I've been starting to study the Bible again, due to a Ladies Bible class on Proverbs. The class on Pride, the sneaky sin, really hit me between the eyes. So I thought when I read this thread, pride and hate, versus humility and love. Seems I have a lot of work to do...on ME.
The 90's were blatantly about pride and hate. Probably well before that, too, but it was more subtle, to me anyway, so I'm just now realizing how far away from love I really was.
But I strongly believe in God's mercy and grace to teach me to be what He wants me to be.
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