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MRAP, I usually try to stay out of arguments, because I find them to be non-productive. However, I would like to respond to a few of your points. I am fairly new here; I have been posting for around seven months. Also, I think many of us are moving on with our lives; I know I am. My life today is pretty good; I am a Disabled Navy Veteran, and I live in DC. I had some great experiences in TWI, but I also had some terrible ones. I love coming to the GSC, because it makes me think. It helps me put my time in TWI in prospective(SP?). Some of the people here at the GSC, had great times in TWI, and miss it. Some of us had good, and bad experiences with TWI, and have learned to put them aside, as we move through life. Some however, were used, abused, and exploited by VPW, and other leaders. I have read on various threads, how some of the women were raped by various "Men of God." These women did not deserve this; the men took what they wanted, and left the women to fend for themselves. I cried when I read this; how could this happen to women who wanted to serve God?? As I continued to read various threads, I read about the serious problems some people had with LEAD. Again, it made me cry; how could people who simply wanted to serve God be treated like this?? MRAP, in my view, the GSC is open to anyone who wants information about TWI. Some of the information is positive; some of it isn't. In my opinion, TWI is dangerous, an deceptive because they say one thing, and do something different. God forbid you get sick; they will kick your azz to the curb, no matter how long you worked there. The GSC warns people of the possible dangers of getting involved with any cult; it is easier to get in, than it is too get out. I wish peace, and blessings to everyone involved with the GSC.

Good thread to bring back from the abyss... Since 2004, to my knowledge, two books by former TWI insiders have been published: Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse and Escape by Kristen Skedgell (2008) " A riveting and finely crafted true story, Losing the Way recounts how the daughter of East Coast intellectuals was recruited into a well-known rightwing Bible cult, The Way International, where she was manipulated, betrayed, and abused, before being rescued by the worldly mother she rejected. Skedgell shows how easily an idealistic young person can be swept away by a spiritual quest and the quiet malevolence lurking beneath the religious exterior of a false leader." and Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International by Charlene Edge (2016) "Charlene Edge’s riveting memoir about the power of words to seduce, betray, and, in her case, eventually save. After a personal tragedy left her bereft, teenaged Charlene rejected faith and family when recruiters drew her into The Way International, a sect led by the charismatic Victor Paul Wierwille. The Way became one of the largest cults in America. Charlene gave it seventeen years of her life. Believing that God led her to Wierwille, she underwent his intensive two-year training program, The Way Corps, designed to produce loyal leaders. When Wierwille warned of a possible government attack, she prepared to live off the grid. She ignored warning signs of Wierwille’s paranoia and abuse—he condemned dissenters as the Devil’s agents, he required followers to watch pornography, he manipulated Corps into keeping his secrets in a “lock box,” he denied the Holocaust, and he surrounded himself with bodyguards. She married a Corps graduate and they served across the United States as Way leaders, funneling money into Wierwille’s bursting coffers and shunning anyone who criticized him. As obedient Way Corps, they raised their child to believe the doctrines of Wierwille, the cult’s designated “father in the Word.” Eventually Charlene was promoted to the inner circle of biblical researchers, where she discovered devastating secrets: Wierwille twisted texts of Scripture to serve his personal agenda, shamelessly plagiarized the work of others, and misrepresented the purpose of his organization. Worst of all, after Wierwille died in 1985, shocking reports surfaced of his secret sex ring. Amid chaos at The Way’s Ohio-based headquarters, Charlene knew she had to escape—for her own survival and her child’s. Reading like a novel, Undertow is not only a brilliant cautionary tale about misplaced faith but also an exposé of the hazards of fundamentalism and the destructive nature of cults. Through her personal story, Charlene Edge shows how a vulnerable person can be seduced into following an authoritarian leader and how difficult it can be to find a way out.

I'm sorry you feel that way though I understand why you might feel unwelcome. Personally, I hope you stay. Everyone's opinion is valued, though many times not agreed upon. I think there is a certain type of stubbornness that comes with the whole TWI experience package. After all, that's what we were taught. Be stubborn. Resist any deviation from the program. Having done all, STAND! ("Get With The Program" probably resonates with your military background.) This site is intended to expose the dark side of an organization we were all led to believe was "special". It wasn't/isn't. It's simply another cult, much like the thousands that have come to exist before it and the thousands that are likely to follow. We come from a wide variety of backgrounds and experiences. Our opinions on any given matter are as varied as night is from day. It's like trying to solve a giant jigsaw puzzle, only to discover someone has hidden some of the pieces. ("What happened to me?" "Why do I feel this way?" "Did I really see what I think I saw?" "Was I the only one this happened to?".... That kind of thing) Here, we try to find those pieces and put together a little bit more of the puzzle. We don't always succeed. Hopefully, the puzzle becomes just a little bit more discernible, though, as time moves on. As it has been said, "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do." If that means you need to move on, then so be it. I've enjoyed our discourses.

You may leave whenever you'd like. I bid you nothing but peace.

Clash of the Titans. Sorry, couldn't resist. I once admired both these men for the same reasons (JALvis and DWBH), and seeing them interact this way is fascinating. I pass judgment on neither, on DWBH because there is none to pass, or on JALvis because my opinion is both irrelevant and altered by my newfound, profound worldview disagreement. Fascinating discussion and thread.

Here's a note from Sue Pierce to jallyroll: "Sorry, John, but I was there for a lot of your nonsense, and what Ralph has written here is not "b.s. allegations". If Ralph didn't have a genuine concern for your welfare, he wouldn't bother continuing to try to agitate you toward repentance and doctrinal correction. But you've clearly decided NOT to correct or repent. Your remark that Ralph knows "nothing about most of the things [he] brings up" is also not correct. I was there. I know. As for me, I really don't care all that much about you. You are what you are--a selfish deceiver. After your recent prayer group's petition for God to turn me over to satan for my destruction, I'm done with you. How you can make that kind of prayer and, with the same mouth, claim to teach Truth from the Scripture confounds me. You're on the train to hell, jal, and I don't really care any more. Ralph does care. He is by far a better person than I am."

I don't want to be the one to point out the obvious, but when an entity calls itself is named The Living Truth fellowship, there is a suggestion that whoever thought up that name believes they are in possession of THE truth, which then assumes that others are not. Some of us think that's arrogant. I suggested to JAL that naming the fellowship that was arrogant. When you start out there, it's pretty hard not to at least be perceived as confrontational. Anyway, some of us have worked through all of this and we find the whole JAL doing the same thing...again...humorous...or sad...or whatever. I've known JAL for over 30 years; I know knew his parents; his child; his siblings; his wives. I worked with him, ate with him, and "fellowshipped" with him. He is a magnet for the weird. Momentus, personal prophecy, every crazy foot a.s.s thing that came along. He disdained the relative normal of his [privileged, Presbyterian] upbringing in favor of the crazy presented by VPW and then Graeser, Schoenheit, and lastly Gallagher. Ralph was one of a list of people who tried to knock some sense into Schoeinheit and especially JAL regarding the Graesers. When I asked what was up with Ralph and Sue and Robert, it was a dismissal of all of them being "deceived". Not a one of them JAL, et al, have even considered that they just might be prone to being deceived and Ralph (et al) were just early observers of the beginnings of crazy part II and got out. When we parted ways I felt nothing but relief as I had come to see that CES/STFI was nothing but a hotbed of ugliness wrapped up in the warm fuzziness of fake "Christian love". I had been in and out of the office since 1993, but for around 2 months I worked in the home office one day a week which happened to be during all the personal prophecy business. That's when I discovered personal prophecy was used to make relationship and business decisions - one of which resulted in JAL's second divorce and several business decisions that were - for want of a better word - stupid. I learned they were serious about this personal prophecy thing just as they were serious about Momentus - you know - the "Christian" retreat that came complete with a 4 page "hold harmless" agreement that JAL convinced about 800 of his closest friends was the fast track to spiritual nirvana. It was this continual attraction to the outlandish and the inevitable drama that finally got my attention and when I tried (probably as Ralph did) to have a rational conversation about the direction they were going and was met with exasperation that I would even question their infinite wisdom...well it was time to make my exit. I talked to Ralph and he confirmed what I had figured out. People left because it was just a continuation of the old thinking with a few tweaks. If that's what you want - fine. It's not for me.

Alternative definition: Working the Word: "The Word" in its natural state does not suffice as a tool for manipulating the weak and providing the megalomaniac with power. Thus they will "work" it.

Working the word consists of getting it to say what it must say no matter what it does say.

Un-bel-ievable!!! That any parent, but especially a parent who espouses to know God, would literally sacrifice not just one daughter but two and thinking they're doing God's will somehow! How wazzed out do you have to be? My God! That, and in the face of the oldest daughter's revelations. That's just over the top. But, I suppose people have been practicing child sacrifice to some sort of God for millenia. This is just another form. Man I'm glad I'm out.

Yeah...I agree with Steve. John is facing some horrible experiences in his near future and I really don't want to kick the guy when he is down. I'll say that John Lynn has spent his life trying to be the best bible teacher he could be and I believe that he has probably helped a lot of people...Is he arrogant? Does he have his own sins in life to deal with? Has he ever deliberately lied to people for his own gain?...Probably so...but as we all draw closer to old age and the end of life, I have no bitterness towards him and I wish him well. I will pray for him not because he "called in his markers" but because he is need of prayer...I give my prayers unconditionally. May God be with him...and may He be with all of us as well.