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Hi - here's my thoughts on the topic - going back to Acts 15 and the first Church "Council" of Jerusalem the leaders that met in Jerusalem discussed the expansion of the church to Gentiles, and exactly what their obligations and responsibilities were in the faith. They very deliberately carved out a place for them that did not include the circumcision nor the vast array of Mosaic laws. As to the circumcision it now makes much clearer sense than it might have to those Jews living at that time - circumcision identifies the circumcised with Israel. Salvation in Christ identifies the saved with Jesus Christ, where circumcision is truly "of the heart". That council's decision was to minimize the obligations of the Gentiles to the earliest and arguably simplest and broadest commandments of God to mankind, while letting them know that "Moses" was held forth and taught in ample supply for them to learn, should they wish to. So there's clearly - very clearly a difference being set forth between being subject to the law, "under it" and the encouragement to them of simply studying it and learning from it. (and Christ as the fulfillment of the Law for salvation applies to all) And we see throughout the New Testament writings this difference being clarified for ALL the members of the church, both Jew and Gentile - that the Law isn't a thing we can pick and choose from to keep some parts of it and not others in relation to our faith in Jesus Christ - if we keep some of it for the sake of righteousness, we are obligated to keep ALL of it and in so doing, we will negate the salvation of Christ, by grace. SO the net result of it all is simple - learning the law of Moses would have value to God's people, as both history and an understanding of God's relationship with His people but as we enter the faith, in the Church, we are no longer Jew OR Gentile, but new people in Christ and as such have this "token" of life today as the sigh of the totality of our new and future lives in eternity. This all filters down to mean less emphasis on the rites and rituals that symbolize our relationship with God and instead living a new life of total immersion, complete relationship, 24X7, forever. We're no longer limited to one day a week or a few hours in a week of communal time with our Father, we are living it and therefore any observations, rituals and traditions have to reflect that new sense of reality as part of it. The Sabbath is therefore less a matter of Sunday or Saturday, regardless of how you want to decide the day. The idea of following that pattern of devotion towards God is the important aspect of it, that in our physical lives in this day and age we set aside a time to God, to honor Him and this life keeping it mind that we are under a far greater obligation to give honor to God in everything we do, at all times, and in all ways.

Waxit: "Rocky, first of all Mark is not my enemy and secondly I definitely do not have the final word on what pleases God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ will judge rigteously in the end Only God knows who will and who will not enter the kingdom of God. I dont know whether you give a hoot about the sabbath which is a really important topic but instead you are picking to comment on something that you should think about before you tap on the keyboard To be honest, I did not want to comment to Mark's reply because I thought he might be in the twilight zone but i thought wait a minute, he needs to be shown so he can think along the correct lines outlined in the word of God So this is actually loving the person enough to show him and not ignore someone. It was not delivered with hatred but love " {Waxit, Welcome to the Grease Spot Cafe! Here, many different opinions and positions are allowed. People can think for themselves and don't usually have to toe a company line. Christians and non-Christians discuss what interests them. It seems like this is as new an experience for you as it is for a lot of ex-twi'ers (as well as those still in.) When you're communicating with people who may not agree with you, it is NOT effective, usually, to get on your high horse and condescend to say that you're right, they're wrong, and they'll have to get with your position or risk displeasing God Almighty. This is a common method of communication for twi innies and survivors. It is largely ineffective outside of twi and twi-style groups. A lot of us posted like that to a greater or lesser degree once- myself included. I recommend you reconsider if you want anyone to agree with you. I might think you have legitimate points to make, but few people will bother to agree with someone whose posting style makes it look like he's full of his own self-importance. It's most likely that you'll slap a label on my post and on me- which will make it easy to dismiss what I'm saying. It's possible you'll consider whether I have a legitimate point. I recommend you think on it. Paul was all things to all men so that by all means he could save some. Perhaps you could benefit from a little flexibility in your communication style.]

There you go, Brother Socks, making rational arguments and coming to wise conclusions.

Thanks for your reply to my question. Now correct me if I’m way off track here – but when you say you are “referring to the truth in God's word that does not have contradictions and it fits harmoniously with the rest of the scriptures” it seems to me (whether you are aware of it or not) you have introduced an element outside of the scriptures – which is your own cognitive abilities , like attention, memory, judgment, evaluation, language skills, problem solving and reasoning to list a few of them. As the Wikipedia article states “Cognitive processes use existing knowledge and generate new knowledge”. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. In fact, it is necessary in order for one to make sense of anything…like deliberating over a water bill that indicates you had used 20,000 gallons of water last month, in your apartment – and you know you only use on average about 2,656 gallons a month. Through your cognitive abilities like memory of previous usage, knowledge of how plumbing works, problem solving – noting you have not seen any indications of massive leaks around the apartment, and decision making you proceed to contacting the landlord and/or utility provider. Now that might be an easy issue to tackle with cognitive abilities. Now let’s take the Scriptures and think about how we understand or try to make sense of the Bible. Again we must draw upon our cognitive abilities – and of them probably knowledge, memory, language skills, judgment, evaluation and especially reasoning are the most crucial. Besides the drawbacks of having to gain a working knowledge of biblical languages and grasping what ancient Near Eastern cultures were like, the context in history, etc. - often we are not aware of how susceptible we are to confirmation bias . As Wikipedia says “It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply-entrenched beliefs.” So the additional and often invisible element to making sense of the simple direct statements of Scripture is our own cognitive abilities. This additional step of understanding (using our cognitive abilities) carries with it the possibility of an erroneous interpretation due to some flaw in our approach. I’ll put all my cards on the table. When I was in TWI I used to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. Since I left, I have refocused my faith to having a relationship with Jesus Christ instead of believing in the pseudo-scholarship of wierwille and TWI - and in general even forsaking the fundamentalist’s interpretation of the Bible – where everything is taken literally and all is deemed inerrant. Do I believe the Bible is the Word of God? Absolutely! Do I believe it’s the God-breathed Word? Absolutely! And just like man in whom God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life – God breathed life into the Scriptures as holy men of God spoke being moved by the Holy Spirit. “Oh wait, is that a reference to Adam and Eve there? They blew it – we’re fallen creatures now.” Yes and that might explain why there are errors and contradictions in the Bible. Another odd thing to think about – Jesus Christ – the Word made flesh – was human. I believe he is the Son of God who once walked the earth – but doggonit why he didn’t write a book in the Bible?! We have inspired accounts of his life and lots of passages in the Bible that explain the meaning of his life (past, present, and future). I still study the Bible…think, pray, philosophize about it – as a means to an end – deepening my relationship with Jesus Christ. …well if you read this far – I thank you for your patience…and endurance…anyway I thought Twinky, Mark S, Allan, and Socks made some great points discussing the “contradiction” between “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8 and “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5 That’s all for now folks

The so called Word has lots and lots of contradictions that oftentimes don't fit harmoniously with the rest of the scriptures, no matter how you slice or dice them. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Not everything always fits like a hand in a glove, with mathematical accuracy and scientific precision.

Waxit: "Saturday is universally recognised as the seventh day of the week. Sunday is recognised as the first day of the week." [When I see people's "rationale" for something as "it need not be defended" or "everyone knows this", I tend to get suspicious, It's not how someone explains, it's how someone ducks explaining something. In all the print calendars I've seen for the past decade (and longer), nearly all of them run Monday to Sunday, and posted work schedules have likewise been "Monday to Sunday" Sounds like your position is not " universally recognized."

There will also be people who will refuse to agree with your understanding of something in the Bible that you emphatically hold true but may indeed be your misunderstanding. Just sayin'. Pride goes before the fall. See Proverbs 16.

What is considered the first day of the week? Is it Monday or Sunday? As far as actual work in the United States and globally, Monday is considered the first day of the week regarding work. And then Sunday is the main day off with regard to work with our seven day weeks that are part of our calendars. Although grocery stores are still open even on Sunday so that people can go there to buy food to eat. Regarding comments, I think Twinky has made some good points here. And because of what we have today spiritually through Jesus Christ, making Sunday or Saturday a special spiritual day is insignificant to me. Through Jesus Christ, and God's gift of the Holy Spirit, every day can be spiritual to us. The question to me is are we getting enough sleep at night? We need sleep at least once a day to energize our lives because of our mortal in flesh human bodies. In the future when we get our Christ like spiritual bodies we may not need sleep then.

One of the things we should remember is that when God got around to fashioning our world, he did things - from rest to rest. And the evening and the morning were the first/second/… day. Your day starts from rest (sunset the day before, reset through the night, work through the day, then returns to rest in the evening. Too often we think our day starts when we get up. It doesn't it starts earlier than that: when you rest. And your working week also starts from that position of rest: a time to relax, unwind, enjoy God, breathe, before a full-on week … then rest again.