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His attempts to inject politics into this discussion appears to be a recurring problem. Earlier on this thread he posted a video of Dr. Seheult talking about vitamin D – and then he challenged a specific group of people “Please, all you "In big pharma we trust" followers, please, pick this apart and show me where this guy is wrong AND I will go get my jab tomorrow !!!!!” see here: Being familiar with Dr. Seheult’s other informative videos on vaccines, viruses and therapeutics I decided to watch this one because the way he phrased his challenge to pick it apart gave me the impression that Dr. Seheult has now changed his position on vaccines. But after watching the ENTIRE video, I was puzzled as to where he got the idea that Dr. Seheult was dismissive of vaccines and/or advocated vitamin D as an alternative to the vaccine. So, I responded to him with three questions: 1. why did you address your challenge of picking apart the video to "In big pharma we trust" followers? (Now if this was a dare to concoct the most outlandish counterargument to getting the vaccine, I would have to say congratulations on your powers of irrelevant thinking and confirmation bias! You win the challenge of that dare! Seriously though – this argument is based on a relevance fallacy.) 2. Did you watch the video all the way through yourself? And 3. What do you think was the point of his video? In my response I also included links to a couple of other Dr. Seheult’s interviews where he was very clear on the effectiveness of 4 vaccines, the use of other therapeutics in tandem with vaccines a even a snapshot of the protracted historical timeline of how long it takes to develop vaccines (which gave me a better perspective and appreciation of how the current vaccines were fast-tracked but certainly not the final or definitive pronouncement of the war on covid-19 is over) and I ended my comments by relating my story of being subjected to a conspiratorial-political-science-denying-soliloquy by another patient in the doctor’s office waiting room – since my policy is usually never to discuss politics and religion with strangers – especially if they bring it up – I kept my cool and let this guy ramble and rant about his conspiratorial-political-nonsense – I just sat there and looked at my phone - giving him no indication that I was upset, bothered or agreed with him - and figured if he decides to get violent at least we’re in the doctor’s office so emergency medical response should be fairly quick …I was done with cult-talk and a cult-mindset a long time ago - - in my post here: To which I received very odd replies: in case the 2nd quote is not expanded - here it is in full: “The Doctor is also VERY smart. He knows that IF he came out and dismissed the covid vaccine and/or stated vitamin D as an alternative to the covid vax, he would be struck off the medical register and very likely be charged with an offence, not to mention the leftie media and other nut job covid cultists on him like blowflies on a fresh cow patty. How about it (said in an exxagerated VPW tone LMAO)” These are some of the most fascinating posts for understanding conspiracy theorists and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset: Conspiracy theory: “A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence. A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, such as an opposition to the mainstream consensus among those people (such as scientists or historians) who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy.” from: Wiki - conspiracy theory Mindset: “In decision theory and general systems theory, a mindset is a set of assumptions, methods, or notions held by one or more people or groups of people. A mindset can also be seen as arising out of a person's world view or philosophy of life. A mindset may be so firmly established that it creates a powerful incentive within these people or groups to continue to adopt or accept prior behaviors, choices, or tools. The latter phenomenon is also sometimes described as mental inertia, "groupthink", and it is often difficult to counteract its effects upon analysis and decision making processes. In cognitive psychology, a mindset represents the cognitive processes activated in response to a given task (French, 2016).” from: Wiki - mindset “A mindset is a belief that orients the way we handle situations—the way we sort out what is going on and what we should do. Our mindsets help us spot opportunities, but they can also trap us in self-defeating cycles. This essay isn’t about all the beliefs we might hold. It is about the beliefs that make a difference in our lives—the beliefs that distinguish people who are successful at what they do versus those who continually struggle. The Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck (2006) popularized the idea of mindsets by contrasting different beliefs about where our abilities come from. If we have a fixed mindset and think that our ability is innate, then a failure can be unsettling because it makes us doubt how good we are. In contrast, if we have a growth mindset, then we expect that we can improve our ability—and a failure, therefore, shows us what we need to work on. People with a fixed mindset are out to prove themselves, and may get very defensive when someone suggests they made a mistake—in other words, they measure themselves by their failures. People with a growth mindset, on the other hand, often show perseverance and resilience when they’ve committed errors—they become more motivated to work harder. You can imagine how much having a fixed or growth mindset can affect our lives.” from: Psychology Today: seeing what others don't I am inclined to think that conspiracy theories and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset are often intertwined – I say this as I call to mind wierwille’s Advanced Class – he was a master at knitting together conspiratorial-spiritual- political-machinations-nonsense and those of us who esteemed him as the truly-enlightened-one-of-god-and-the-New-Knoxville-Gnostic-and-the-only-one-having-the-inside-scoop-for-this-day-and-time-and-hour bought into it all ! So in return I asked HOW did he know that in this post: In response to my post, he resorts to vulgar-high-school-style-insults saying he recognized TWI was a cult while I was still licking LCM’s jockstrap – which I thought was odd but interesting for several reasons – besides being a fallacious personal attack against me (ad hominem fallacy) instead of attacking the actual issue– he also attempts to promote another lie - which I underlined in this quote - he says "I recognized TWI as a cult whilst you were still licking LCM's jockstrap, so that's a pretty weak argument lol. You and others have not yet made the 'connection' ...have you ?! What were TWI's three tenets of belief, their driving motive ?? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL = CULT....Big Pharma/Government ? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL...you're IN the covid cult and you do not even realise it !! Oh, and as for Dr. Seheult....look at the TIMELINE of his videos and what he is saying two years ago compared to things he has changed his stance on (sorry Twinks, you arse umed wrong) ...again.” …you can see his post here: again, you’ll notice the conspiratorial-theory-effort to push politics and to accuse me of being in a covid cult…and to add doubt and confusion he says to check the timeline on Dr. Seheult’s position…well – no need for me to do that – I’m very familiar with what he said when, and do not find anything contrary to what he has said in the links I’ve posted earlier – matter of fact, here’s a few more to indicate his stance on the vaccine – here are some excerpts of an interview and associated links below them: “The decision to get vaccinated in a pandemic is not a decision out of nothing. The situation is calling for it. It’s either you get vaccinated or get the infection.” – Dr. Roger Seheult “The fact that we don’t have polio or smallpox today is a direct consequence of ancestors in this country and around the world. They decided on taking a vaccine to eliminate those diseases. We’ve effectively done that when we started to say that a vaccine is a choice for me.” – Dr. Roger Seheult “We don’t know the long-term effects of vaccines because these effects would usually appear within the first two to three months. But having the virus has long-term effects, too. A study shows that some athletes still had signs of myocarditis after a mild or asymptomatic bout of COVID-19. … In vaccines’ case, it works because it allows our bodies to develop immunity against COVID-19. What most do not know is that anti-COVID vaccines contain attenuated protein from the virus itself. This prepares our immune system for what’s coming and [to] be ready for it with antibodies.” – Dr. Roger Seheult “Do we know the long-term side effects of the vaccine? No, we don’t until … a long time, but we don’t know the virus’s long-term side effects either. But that may be different if somebody has horrible allergic reactions and anaphylaxis. I would not advise getting the vaccine because you’re at high risk for getting another allergic reaction. That’s a medical risk-benefit ratio” – Dr. Roger Seheult On herd immunity the interviewer said this about Dr. Roger’s stance on vaccines: “Dr. Roger believes that at this time, the best weapon that we have against COVID-19 is herd immunity. However, he explained that our hospitals and health system’s current situation is not enough for the needs of the infected people. In order to achieve herd immunity, we need the support of the vaccine to get there.” from: podcast: facts about vaccines and improving immunity podcast: use this science to boost immune system podcast: facts about improving immunity Personally, I do not take issue with this poster saying he realized TWI was a cult before I did. That may very well be true – but a matter that could be settled pretty quickly if he would reply to what I asked him in my next post; in it I asked a few simple questions: What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI? How long were you in TWI ? What was your age when you left? Why did you leave? Did you join an offshoot? I’m looking forward to his response to my questions - and I’m assuming he will be honest and accurate since Twinky said she already knows the answers but is letting him tell his story. Just for the record – I am not disputing he may have realized TWI was a cult long before I did. What I am suggesting is the possibility that even though he may have left a cult before me, many of his posts on this thread seem to indicate a cult-like mindset has never left him. Someone remarked how different Grease Spot is from TWI. True that! These are open discussions – anyone can air their viewpoint and opinions. I don’t care what folks bring to the table – hopefully it’s something useful…but it does get old when someone brings table scraps and leftovers from wierwille’s Advanced Class and conspiracy theorists. an old proverb comes to mind - people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones – meaning people who are vulnerable to criticism should not criticize others, especially not for the faults that they themselves have since such criticism will likely be returned. From: The Free Dictionary on idiom of people who live in glass houses

A quick google search of anything Allan posts is all that is needed. Same with the Nigerian study.

A direct quote from the article: “These events are often coincidental, rather than being caused by the vaccine, therefore any attempts to link the two based on a temporal association alone is misleading,”

Actually she did say the lab workers are on site. As for other employees, working remotely is no indication of being vaccinated or not. The Federal Government issued remote working guidelines back before June 2020. Not just for the CDC but for most Departments. I know personally this is true with the EPA, *if* a job can be done as effectively remotely as from the office, they are not required to come to the office. It may surprise you, but productivity has seen crazy upticks. why? Well, for one thing commute times. Housing in DC itself is crazy high ($650k+ for a two bedroom bungalow, $750k for a townhouse, as a starter). As a result MOST government employees live an hour away in Maryland or Virginia. Not commuting saves over 2 hours a day. What actually happens is the employee ends up working MORE hours than they would if they came to the office 9-5. Federal employees, just like the those in the private sector, have learned during this pandemic they can get more done, AND have more family time, AND be healthier working remotely. Of course you have to quickly scramble and throw on a sport coat when a Cabinet member pops into the Zoom meeting LOL. (True story) It has nothing to do with not being vaccinated. (Virtually all are, or will be by January). The workforce, public and private, are changing how things get done. Simple as that.

Yeah but you swallow the crap from quacks and other ne’r-do-well liars , so who cares what you say? that is why I addressed Skyrider not you. for what it is worth, I have friends who work ICU’s here and they confirm what this administrator says about the numbers but that is immaterial since you reject real science and the preponderance of evidence.

Skyrider, I am a data driven guy and the data I see here in Colorado does not align with “the vaccines are not effective in preventing contractions or even serious complications” I recognize your hesitancy in accepting releases from the CDC, so this is directly from UCHealth, one of our larger hospital systems. (Other Colorado hospitals are reporting almost the same numbers) “Across Colorado, about 80% of adults are now vaccinated against COVID-19. Inside our hospitals, we’re seeing that the other 20% who are unvaccinated are making up the vast majority of our patients with COVID-19. As the charts below show, nearly 81% of our patients hospitalized with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, and nearly 90% of our COVID-19 patients ventilated in ICUs are unvaccinated. Of our hospitalized patients who were vaccinated at the time of admission, many are immunocompromised.” https://www.uchealth.org/today/covid-19-coronavirus-recent-updates/ My point is, if 80% are vaccinated but the 20% who are NOT vaccinated make up 81% of hospitalizations and 91% of ventilated patients, the math indicates the vaccines are helping keep the vaccinated safer. sure, there are breakthrough cases. There always are with mutating viruses (witness the flu). However except in individuals who have other health issues, those are primarily not requiring hospitalization or ventilators amongst the vast majority of the population who is vaccinated here. I hope that helps you understand how I look at it.

Censoring information? Who? Where? The age of information means developing skills to sort through unlimited information.

Can't speak for the truth or otherwise of the article, but it's badly written and inaccurate in its use of the English language, which always makes me suspicious about less obvious content.

skyrider: "As one comment explained......"From the article, "It's waning to the point that you're seeing more and more people getting breakthrough infections, and more and more of those people who are getting breakthrough infections are winding up in the hospital." So......what you are really saying is that the vaccine really isn't all that effective in either preventing contracting the disease, nor is it as effective in preventing serious symptoms or from preventing death as the media has been pushing down our throats the past year. " =============================================== Anyone who thinks that this meant the vaccine isn't effective don't understand what's happening. The people winding up in the hospital are the people who are still refusing vaccinations. The "breakthrough" infections are from the variants, with Delta being the most popular one to catch right now. If you catch a variant, you might not be 100% protected against the infection- but if you were totally innoculated with 2 shots before, then you're going to have a lot of resistance against the variant. If you actually get sick, the severity and length will both be way down. Anyone heard of Gabriel Iglesias? He's a stand-up comedian from the US, Mexican-American, and he's rather corpulent. His nickname is "Fluffy." "Why do I drink diet soda? So I can eat regular cake." He's not that young anymore. He's seriously overweight, and has related problems (Type 2 diabetes, etc.) He got one of the breakthrough infections from the Delta variant. He's got a load of pre-existing problems. He took to his bed and was fine the next day. He said that's entirely due to him having both doses. He said he's had worse incidents from HANGOVERS. Want to risk ending up in the hospital from one variant of Covid or another? Just keep skipping the shots. The shots decrease the risk of getting sick at all, and they decrease the severity of the illness if you DO get sick. Or, you know, you can just keep thinking that governments all agreed on innoculations as part of some conspiracy, and that every country manufacturing one or another is including some weird spying thing or something when they make it.

from the article: “On Nov. 12, White House COVID adviser Anthony Fauci, MD, went on The New York Times' podcast The Daily to discuss the current state of the coronavirus in the U.S. According to Fauci, officials are now starting to see some waning immunity against both infection and hospitalization several months after initial vaccination. The infectious disease expert pointed toward incoming data from Israel, which he noted tends to be about a month to a month and a half ahead of us in terms of the outbreak…The need for boosters doesn't mean that the vaccines don't work, however. On the contrary, Fauci stressed that he does not think that "we've given the full rein to prove what it is that you need to make them work," like additional doses. According to the virus expert, researchers did not "have to time" to do extensive studies to determine whether two doses would be better than three, as there was a pressing need to get vaccines out to people sooner rather than later, which was "life-saving for millions of people," he noted.” I clicked on the link in that article and listened to the 36-minute podcast – and yes this is some very concerning stuff! here is the Fauci podcast NY Times Fauci interview - especially when Fauci said we are plateauing where we are now at some 70 to 73,000 cases a day – which he said can be a setup for a resurgence upon that very high baseline…Delta variant is essentially a different species and a more formidable enemy… but he like so many other experts on viruses are being very cautious about predicting any long term scenarios…I’m not saying he or any of these experts are painting a gloom and doom picture – but with my layman perspective I appreciate when they lay out realistic and possible scenarios. If anyone listened to that 2 hour podcast of interview with Dr. Roger ( click here > interview with Dr. Roger Seheult ) I gave in an earlier post - he gives a brief history in science’s fight with various diseases and it’s usually a very protracted timeline…. As far as those “brutal comments” to the article - and for that matter, social media in general – anyone can play armchair quarterback – I’ve read comments on some other forums that talk about since these vaccines were fast-tracked we should be over and done with it already – or for whatever reasons it seems they just want to criticize Fauci – even though they have no direct/experiential knowledge of vaccines, viruses, processing the data, etc.…some armchair quarterbacks suggest this should be easy to figure out or theorize various conspiratorial hitches to our predicament .