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If its not producing good fruit its not of God...I mean the avacados I purchased from the store werent always that rotten, at least, in areas outside the Corps.

Now there's a "training period". Did those unbelievers, who were living a more abundant life than the believers, that VPW talked about in session 1 of PFAL have to complete a training period?... No? That's sounds a bit unfair, in my opinion. Why, if I was a bettin' man....

There are so many aspects of Grease Spot Café that are almost undefinable. I Googled the definition of "group" and one hit was this: A Group is basically an assemblage of people. It can be understood as a collection of individuals (two or more), who come together and interact with each other, so as to achieve the objectives of the organization. From: What is a Group? definition, characteristics, types and reasons for group formation - Business Jargons The stated mission of Grease Spot Café is to tell the other side of the story of The Way International. Grease Spotters come together and interact with each other to achieve that objective! Each Grease Spotter’s input represents a unique story of their experiences and personal viewpoint in The Way International. I like that it’s unfiltered and uncensored – and that there’s rules/moderators to put the kibosh on troll-tactics to keep their intended mayhem down to a minimum. The fact that Grease Spot has some folks who are pro-PFAL and/or are big wierwille fans are allowed to air their views which sometimes sparks heated discussions and/or the Socratic method is a testimony to Grease Spot being the antithesis of the deceit and control of The Way International. Three cheers for Grease Spot Cafe

Yes, I noticed that as well.....NO MENTION of twi experience or exposure . Kicking off the dust of his feet and moving on.

Theres the other side of mike and johniam that people assume what they post here is what GSC is all about. If their pro-twi pro-wierwille posts go unanswered the GSC then looks like a pro-twi site. So, yeah, somebody needs to refute their posts as needed.

To put this in terms that Mike can understand, this is like God saying “I have a jack, but I’m not going to help you. Why? Because I like to play games around mental assent. Now go back and study your collaterals until you really, really, really, really truly “believe”. “ And the leaders can follow the example of the woman in the class whose kid got hit by a car due to her “believing” and similarly accuse those below them of the same, completing the victim blame cycle.

Jonah accepted being a prophet. He refused a SPECIFIC order but otherwise was a prophet. You made it sound like Jonah refused the call to be a prophet, period. I remember how some people don't want to hear what a prophet said, because they'd rather pretend they weren't disobeying God, and were more comfortable following actions of their own, and deciding that God Almighty was all right with them or approved of them. "I get the impression many of them were losers who had grown accustomed to rejection, and were pretty meek and not heady about themselves." Generally, they weren't full of themselves, else they would have been unfit to serve. The full description you give is of men who were "meek"- not to God's instructions but in general, Casper Milquetoasts, men who were unused to winning, men who were "accustomed to rejection," or, simply, as you put it, "LOSERS." Before having the audacity to make such a claim about leaders appointed by God Almighty, I'd want to have an ironclad case it was so, line-by-line out of the Bible. (As if one was accusing the apostle Paul of being a sex pervert.) Even vpw said that a DEFINING characteristic of prophets was COURAGE and BOLDNESS. They have to have the guts to go before the entire nation and say "God's unhappy with what you've done, and you need to straighten up and fly right." They have to have the guts to go before the King of Israel and say "Here's what you must do to get your heart right with God, for you have offended Him." Sounds like you have no idea what it means to BE a prophet of God Almighty.

From all the unvarnished history told and examined in this forum, it should be impossible to logically separate the Corps from victor. Corps is of the seed of vpw. LCM is of the seed of vpw — oily head and all. To deny this fact is to, well, be in denial. This denial comes from a lack of “in depth spiritual awareness and perception.” This denial is a manifestation of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty. And I’m inclined to beleeve it is no coincidence that the advent of Way Corps came a few years AFTER the founding of Sea Org. Way Corps is to vpw as Sea Org is to L. Ron Hubbard. Victor learned from whomever he could. If it was right on with effectual indoctrination, isolation, control and supply exploitation, he kept it. If it wasn’t, he dropped it. Hey! I didn’t write the book.

The corps ruined the ministry? Has Mike forgotten whose baby the corps was?

This is a real risk to consider. When I first came to GSC ten years ago, I thought it was pro TWI because of posters like Mike and Johniam and Jeaniam and others. It was a huge turn off and kept me away for years.

I mean you no disrespect, but a lot of what you share makes all this sound as if it's more of an intellectual pursuit for you. Can you see that people are victimized by these false doctrines? Its an entirely different affair when you have actual skin in the game and it's life or death and your child's life is at stake. You don't get to go back and figure what went wrong...or pontificate something ludicrous as a solution so you can try it out next time....

Well, lemme chime in as the local recovering alcoholic who has had SERIOUS battles with addiction. You aleady stated many of the possible reasons why people turn to drugs and alcohol. But I wanna handle one you didnt mention. Drugs make a person feel good and allow a person to forget. Thats the exact root cause that led me to stay involved in drugs when I had a choice before I became an addict. Not too many people see the hook or feel the hook being set. I started off drinking and abusing drugs because my older sister thought it was funny to get me completely jacked up and pass out...I was 10. So while I really didnt have a snowballs chance when I was young, as I got older I chose drugs and alcohol. It was a lifestyle I desired and running the streets was who I was. I sobered up for a good while once I got involved with TWI, but never could admit that I was an alcoholic and should never touch alcohol again. So when my son was born and I caught the brunt of his major health problems I turned to alcohol to numb it out. By the time I was addicted I couldnt stop: literally. I was so physically hooked that my hands would start shaking aroun 3pm each day because the withdrawals were setting in while I had been working. Since Ive turned to Christ he has empowered me over my addiction as long as I dont drink. Sounds kinda simple, but I couldnt stop. I tried for three years to put the bottle down on my own and physically couldnt. The very day I turned to Christ and repented of my lifestyle I was able to quit cold turkey and havent touched a drop in several years now. Nobody sets out to be an addict, we are overtaken by addiction and dont see it even when we are in the midst of it's grip.

Thats so cool to see how he has taken offpost TWI!! I notice he didnt mention them in his ministry experience and I understand why. Very inspiring to see this.

LMFAO Me too Rocky me too!

Yes he is a pharmacist and educator. Masters from Emporia State University - An educated and accomplished man - who had a threshold limit of bullshonta and hit the road when it topped off over the limit. Like us. Except he’s probably more accomplished. He probably bailed on TWI younger….

Yes, exactly right. Lonnell Johnson is an accomplished and competent professional. Another link.... Dr. Lonnell Johnson

It's incredibly obvious in hindsight. In twi, there were definitions of "gift ministries", but people were actively discouraged from seeking to serve God in ANY of them! All of the definitions were bent to make it look like they applied to vpw, and then anyone who showed a predilection toward any of them was discouraged from seeking it, because it drew attention away from vpw, and he wanted all the power to himself. So, he wanted all the gift ministries- even if it was all an elaborate deception, and he wanted NOBODY to have gift ministries because it would take away from his spotlight. Think about it. Why does an evangelist not actually EVANGELIZE? The definition was changed to make an "evangelist" someone who stays home and NEVER gets on the field. Why? So vpw could claim the title- or INSINUATE he had the title- and still stay home. The emphasis for a prophet was not "exhort God's people to make corrections to please God" - it was on "one who speaks for God" and skipped the substance of what was spoken! Why? Again, to claim vpw "spoke for God". What about a teacher? Do you think there would be room for more than one teacher, one alongside the self-titled "THE Teacher"? As for "apostles", they are "sent ones"- except in twi and ex-twi. Then they are people who "bring new light to their generation, it may be 'old light' but to them it is new.'" Why in the world have such an odd explanation? So it could be flexed enough to claim vpw was an apostle, teaching people the "old light" of Pentecost without leaving his pulpit, never actually being "SENT" anywhere. vpw would be especially interested in keeping any thoughts about PROPHETS stamped down sharply. Imagine someone with authority from God Almighty, going to vpw and the others, and publicly confronting them on the need to obey God and change their sinful ways. vpw would have responded much like others of previous centuries- with physical violence. He would have had them physically thrown out and escorted away AT GUNPOINT and with attack dogs following. So, no, twi never had a Rolodex of gift ministers, ESPECIALLY of prophets.

"Direct revelations are for special believing for miracles" This is an essential cop out in the huckster's bag of tricks. (Sine qua non.) It's so convenient. It fits like a glove full of bullshonta. "Will you please cast out that spurt?" "Not without revelation... I mean, I know how (H-O-W)... but, but... I'm not doing anything until I get revelation." "What about Johnny's withered hand? Can you heal that?" "I can, I mean, I know how (H-O-W), but I won't, unless l get revelation." "Oh." Come on people!! F cking bullsh it!!!

When I was a teacher of first grade students (6-7 years old), our school board supplied resources so that we could teach resilience, having a growth mindset and later on even mindfulness to the kids. The important part was helping them to apply this knowledge throughout the day when problems or challenges occurred both inside and outside the classroom. The goal was that if this was reinforced each year as the kids grew older, it would stick with them after they graduated. A lot of students at the first school where I taught came from pretty rough backgrounds so I think it was a godsend.

Were the people in the Old Testament aware of this?

That sounds like “mental assent” lol. What action have you taken to confront the illogic and help them get smarter? Anything? I find the hypocrisy hilarious. People victim blame the little people and excuse the leaders all day long. I only pray that you get smarter. And I’m taking believing action on it by calling out harmful false doctrine you post consistently.

The higher up in the org you go the more sketchy the applications of “revelation” become in my experience. A bunch of yes men faking it until they make it. How about dont schedule a damn meeting in the midst of a blizzard you arse head. (That leader lol)

This does not jibe with my understanding or personal experience. I experienced no “revelation” just a really loud voice screaming “stop”. It was not a still small voice and was not in my head but audible to my ears. I got up and looked around for the source. I basically did nothing but freak out and lay down a bike. You are trying to sort experiences into your PFAL advanced class teaching buckets. Which are horse puckey. If God wants to do something He executes on it pretty quickly. And if your consciousness is on trying to control a dashboard Jesus then you will be staring at it for a long time. The curse of the law of believing teaches you to stay there and mentally strain to ensure you are “really believing” like “really taking a crap” or something. What man by taking thought can add a cubit to his stature? Rhetorical question - fooled you lol

“You will face many defeats in life, but never let yourself be defeated.” -Maya Angelou I like this quote. We will face many defeats in life. It is one of the reasons for living our life. We are meant to face challenges. And to learn from them. I think the first way in not allowing ourselves to be defeated is by recognizing challenges will occur. We will not, and cannot, win every challenge which comes our way. So, my challenge for you is to figure out a way to face those defeats, but not let yourself be defeated. Find the wins in every challenge you are nearly being defeated by.

If you're referring to Lonnell Johnson, he wasn't a token anything. He's a smart, industrious gentleman. As far as I know, he's still upright (alive). https://www.lonnelledwardjohnson.com/ Three athletes I remember Loy latching on to and promoting were Tony Phillips (MLB utility infielder), Tony Collins (NFL running back) and Irving Fryar (another NFL player). All three of them had significant problems post TWI and did not laud their PFLAP grad status.

Oh, well, why didn't you say so in the first place?

Thanks for that. Thanks much. I think much the same. I really do harbor the most loving of deep love for everyone here. I never have said this, but have often thought it, the main reason I come here is I love you folks, all of you. I fell into a long-suit early in my ministry life of helping new grads understand the class better. I just wanted to love and that was one way. Some people made coffee, I tried to figure out what was bugging new grads about the new material. I watched like a hawk all the new students as they SIT in Session 12. At first it just fell into my lap; like they'd ask me. Eventually I realized it was a calling, and a duty. If God steered so many great teachers in my path (not merely vpw), so that my deepest questions got answered, then it was my duty to pass them on. Kinda like an echo of the 1942 promise/deal. Anyway, thanks again for the Brotherly Heads Up. I have to admit, sometimes I totally forget this Jesus commanded perspective, that we love one another. I am thankful for when I remember, though.

You know R for me interestingly enough resilience has kind of corresponded with more of an investigation into emotional intelligence which I had little of as a young man. The two components of EI as paraphrasing self knowledge and community knowledge. So I’ve kind of had to dig down into self and my motivations habits patterns drivers. Then next trying to understand my world I live in. The term “research is me-search” really connects. Researching myself standalone. Researching my world with me in it interacting. I do not find it valuable at all limiting input to a certain set of materials that came along with a class. No directly opposite I find a broader reading strengthens my borders and helps vastly for its intended purpose - collective learning and growth. That’s what interacting with you all helps with - collective understanding of our world and the times we live in. As well as interesting self exploration side roads.