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That’s an amazing cult leader verse especially when you take it out of context. I am sure Creflo Dollar prays the same prayer that all those that he is fleecing will receive his words not as those of a snake oil salesman but instead receiving them like it was God speaking to them directly. And not questioning those words they will send in their ABS. VPWs personality had flaws but his research had more. Anyone with a reasonable logic process who watches Dr. Juedes video which is the topic of this thread probably will not accept VPWs words like they are coming directly from God. Sure just suspend any critical thinking processes you have and immediately accept in these words like they were divine direction. However Paul’s travels and teachings to Thessalonika were vastly different than Plaffy. Instead of plagiarizing Peters teachings and presenting them as his own he developed his own path and teachings to the Gentiles. He took the path Peter did not take instead of teaching to the same audience and trying to steal followers. There were no Great Principle charts or excellor sessions. There was no Way Ambassador program patterned after the Mormons where new converts and teenagers do the work to promulgate the group. There was No Corps with annual “placements” a thumb of control over all leadership.

People used to tell me that the birth of my son would change my life. However they described it, however they explained it, that was not it. Their words were insufficient. You are a mother. You might know what I'm talking about. It is something that cannot be explained or contained conceptually. It is indescribable, is it not? We are so eager to have someone else provide answers. We want someone else to see it for us. We want someone else to tell us what to do. No one can see it for you. Trust. But don't trust me.

Actually this thread is about a pastor of a mainstream Christian denomination church rejecting the collaterals because they are shallow and have shoddy handling of scripture and poor workmanship. He is on the same position of service VP was as a pastor so offers an objective external view based upon research into it. What the thread is not about is Mike, his beliefs, views on Plaffy collaterals, or how he arrived at his conclusions. I understand Mike regularly gets this confused on most of the threads he comments on trying to make them about him and his beliefs about the collaterals which defy common sense. So that is why some threads get mucked up. Mike gets confused about the topic, starts changing it to himself, and everyone responds. Give it a rest ostrich boy.

Truth cannot be found. It is not to be attained. Truth is nothing to be possessed. But all the priests, gurus and teachers will happily take your money, honor and devotion in exchange for a comfortable package of knowledge you can hold in your brain or in their books. Then you say, "I've got it! I found it!" Truth cannot be held. The one claiming to HAVE the Truth is surely the one who does not. Truth is to be seen. It can be seen by anyone with eyes to see.

Your hubris is showing. So this is what you use to convince yourself your better than anyone else here? That's because is. As it's impossible for any one person to know everything in the universe, so it is impossible to know the whole truth. At best we get just a very, very small piece.

When the student is ready the master appears. When the student is TRULY ready the master disappears. (Tao Te Ching) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

Yes, that's an astute assessment. Restated in the framework of Brené Brown's research, Mike is apparently too insecure to vulnerably show up as himself. Instead of "fitting in," he has spent more than two decades trying to make readers here fit in to his belief system, even though pretty much everyone he addresses has rejected that world view and belief system. Mike also adamantly heretofore has refused and rebuffed efforts to reach out to him with compassion. He doesn't engage in legitimate discussion. That's sad for him and sad for us.

Thanks for the list of websites. I'm starting today to listen to The Power of Vulnerability through the public library here and I've placed a hold on Braving the Wilderness - only one hold before me.

That’s a good suggestion. I think the problem is that it’s like having on manure tinted sunglasses without knowing you have them on. When Mike reads the book of Mark with the manure tinted sunglasses he doesn’t get an unbiased clear message straight off the page. He gets a distortion. He comes across all the Plaffy markings and underlining with a different color marker the verses from certain classes and interprets it in a Plaffy way. So Mark as a servant portrays that all wayfers were “born again to serve” and the way you serve in this day and time is go Way Ambassador and Corpse. The dendrites need to be trained in a different direction for people to be able to simply read and understand what is there without all the external influence.

Just read. Not note-taking and nit-picking. Just read, for the pleasure of learning and understanding. One word, then the next, then the next - and you don't need a concordance to do it. Gospel of John isn't the easiest place to start. You could have tried Mark, considered by many the basis of the synoptic (look up meaning) gospels. Matthew and Luke are also easy to read. For myself, it wasn't any of those that started me seeking - it was the riveting adventure story and display of power in Acts of the Apostles. Couldn't wait to read the next chapter! I wanted to see that power in everyday life. I wanted to tap into it. So then, I could look back at the gospels. Mike, if one thing doesn't work, try another. Try reading Mark, Luke, John, Acts, or any of the epistles. Or even reading parts of the OT (for the time being, not Ezekiel, Isaiah, and some of the other more prophetic books). Try Good News Bible, a very easy reader, simple English. Or The Message, in everyday English. Just read the book. Only when you have read the book, or sufficient parts of it, are you even remotely qualified to criticise. And you do criticise the very Bible you purport to believe, when you submerge yourself in Janet & John books that purport to explain the Bible. " I already knew the story..." - that's got to be a GSC gem, scintillating in its ridiculousness.

No Boston slang. Real, stick-to-your-ribs, classic wickedness.

The Torah has some wicked nonsense, indeed. But this is not problem for me because I'm not an inerrantist. I know men wrote it. They wrote what they believed. The ancient Near East was a bizarre world. I wouldn't fit in there, and they wouldn't fit in here. I am OK with that. I don't need to make a glove fit. The holding in abeyance was one of victor's many cop outs. But I do pray about the nonsensical and wicked -- a guided meditation, actually.

Below is the complete hearing without any melodramatic commentary. I see it all as a diversion, a fun rabbit hole to play in, kinda like GSC sometimes. There are more important, pressing issues for my attention.

Didn't know I couldn't see light or feel love...

"Comely figure" - wow! Thank you! When was that? 2007, ooohhh! I've probably put on about 10lb since then. So not too bad, but rather wouldn't have it.