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What I would like to know is, do they operate the same way twi did? Do they Mark and Avoid when someone doesn't toe the line? Do they require attendance at all ministry functions? Do they require 10 percent of your income for God to spit on you? Do the teachers spit when they teach? Do they shun anyone who isn't in the ministry? What if a class is being run and you can't go because of your job, do they "suggest" you quit your job to "put God first"? How different are they really from twi? Or are they pretty much the same?

Well you have to admit. . . all this lovely history brought to light. . . . concerning the Wierwille's from Ohio and now Mud Hole Mississippi . . . . cannot be good for business. Curious. . . . most groups like TWI are built around one central charismatic figure. . . cult 101. . . the big guy dies. . . the thing falls apart . . . . unless there is someone equally charismatic to step in. . . . rally the troops. . . and hold it together. Pretty common way for a cult to go away. . . the big dog dies. Armstrong and the COG are a good example. . . it splintered. I think his son leads an offshoot as he could not hold the empire together. Now that the Wierwille's splinter have a new charismatic figure. . . they are ramping it up and at it again. I just find that diabolical. I really do.

oh it can indeed. the key is remembering to hate the right people when it gets chilly in the night. my ex for instance. or lcm. I get real warm fuzzies thinking about his fall from power and it puts me right to sleep, all cozy. vpw I somehow can't derive the same warmth from, unless I remember he died possessed by a devil, but somehow that doesn't seem like enough. hehe, I forgot I had that listed in my interests :)

Absolutely correct. I can disagree with someone and still not hate them.

Post anyway you please. I don't recall saying you're embarrassing yourself. I don't want you to alter anything on my account. I do, however recall a proverb about people who speak their whole mind. When did you start believing that someone wanted to invalidate your opinions? Just how is that done, anyhow? Opinions fly back and forth rather quickly here. The comments you're referring to happened this morning - time and comments have come and gone since then. You felt like they needed to be brought up again. That's your right. It's also my right to answer you if you address me. When would you like this to end?

And spoil everyone's fun? He is a young whippersnapper who doesn't know sh!t from shinola. You know, like most of us when we were his age, only most of us didn't know it then, either. But that's different - well, at least for some of us. Linda Z, you are entirely too rational at times. I love it, but it'll cause your "reputation" to suffer.

Wow I'm heavily struck, here, with how unpredictable can be the human condition and the oft strong desire to be right, to be sure to get the last word in, to be sure to one-up another. Not exactly the vision Pawtucket had, I'm sure, when he said something like "lets tell the other side of the story and maybe have some fun doing it". If someone pi$ses me off and I just can't stand it, I fail to see the good in not standing it so publically; I guess I'll never understand that and I'm glad I don't get it. Caleb, in his youthful "I was just kidding" approach and tone after his original approach of "I'll show up on your stoop"..........I think that those of us that have children that are older than 22 might understand that silliness quicker and yes, he did deserve to have explained to him the better way to frame things here. But my question, then, is whether or not like bahavior isn't happening amongst those that were comfy to tell him straighten up and fly right. The bully on the playground that barges into the new playground, making comments that he later states were "just kidding" then gets to sit back and watch as those he is presumed to have bullied go at each other. I think we too often have no idea of another's intentions, and of course we lack eye contact and body language and general knowledge of someone that is merely known to us on a computer screen. Then I've known of two or more people getting together on the phone or an IM and prod each other against another. "you post this and I'll follow with this" and so it goes. For what? To show someone how tough we are, how much more we know than them, we're big, they're small and by God we are going to make sure they remember it? Sad and our new friend Caleb, bless his heart and pass the peas, sees only the bickering and spitting and why the hell wouldn't he feel comfortable to come back with more of his own goodies. I don't know the man called Caleb but I do understand young people that age and I do understand having connections to people of note and just those two combined make for a powerful mix of "pffffttttt" Is that his intent? I'm not sure I care, but as is the original idea of the forum, too, he has the right to express it and yes, the responsibility to accept the consequences of a strong group of people. I looked at his posts through the lens of a mama and more fun, the mama of a 20 something kid that is forever making statements that she might have to swallow whole in a short time, sometimes all the time. She'll get it and so will Caleb, I pray. I know I did when as I matured and understood and got off my '10 foot tall and bulletproof' ladder. But to go at each other in such a public manner...........nah. Sad. Caleb, say what you need to say, just do heed alot of the posters sage wisdom of caution, whatever that is for you.

I, for one, would be interested in hearing about the mechanics of the program. What was an average day like? How was it scheduled? Did you have free time to just relax? What were mealtimes like? What sort of food program did you have? What were the housing arrangements? Did you have group work projects? What was offered in the way of academic study? Are these questions general enough to keep things neutral?

:o Lingo?? -------------------- I dunno--- why would anyone bother? are people really that bored? But I suppose you could be right--- I can believe almost anyone anywhere but when anyone speaks in the name of "truth" the details always seem to be at least a little bit sketchy and suspect. I hope he tells us why young Victor is such a "great man of God" --enough of us have asked already-- Im expecting something Gandhi like, a dash of St. Patrick with a little Mother Theresa mixed in. After the big buildup anything less than ending world hunger and brokering a lasting peace in the Mideast and I'll be sorely disapointed. I can hardly wait for 'the truth' to be shown....

Howdy everyone! As my screen name says I am indeed a a graduate of sowers class 08-09. I will reveal my name and age in due time and for those who have followed the website closely you will probably figger out which sower i am soon enough. Im sure yall all have a bazillion questions to ask me. I want to say from the start, I am NOT here to bash anyone. I know the feelings a d opinions that are presented on this website torwards the WAY dr. weirwillie, the sowers program, and the word in general. They are not favorable. You are entitled to taht obviously. I do not mind people disaggreeing with me however, i ask you to be polite and respectful. If you wish to accuse anyone of anything, i ask that you do so only if you WERE ACTUALLY THERE AND EXPERIENCED IT FIRSTHAND! hereay from a buddy who may or may not be gossiping is not credible. It dont fly in court and it dont fly with me. I dont feel like typing a whole lot right now, but i will take all your questions over the course of the next few days, weeks, months etc. However there is one topic i want to set yall straight on from the start. Victor weirwille. the grandson. V2p2 or whatever yall call him. he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Somje people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent. The floor is open for discussion. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. God Bless. Anonymous

So they were at Rome City.. I thought they got shipped off far west or something.. anybody else know anything?

anybody seen ilda recinto recently? I think she and her husband moved to new bremen ohio.

Does any one have info on Barb? She was from Minnesota, lived in Oregon and then went into the 11th Corps. Thanks.

Hi. i am 22 and wonderin g if there are any young people her. lets say from the ages 25 and under. I would love to hear about you.

I don't know what other choices to add. Let me know and I'll add them.

I've read this site, and made a few posts in the last couple of months, and in my meager opinion, y'all just don't want to get over it. Do you have lives? It's been 23 years since I left the ministry. Please don't tell me I didn't know what was going on. I lived with J.P. at Emporia and packed a gun doing "bless patrol". Time to move on kids. Eagle

That's pretty much what we've been asking all along. So far, though, no answers.

It was the fear in the heart of the life of that man...

You packed a gun???? :o Why?

Wow, you knew what was going on and stayed? I wouldn't be admitting THAT one out loud. At least most of us left once we figured it out. Oh, and thanks for calling us kids. . . haven't heard that in awhile. . . .

It's Internet Lightbearers! Perhaps S'09's got a week to convert us. Maybe the Cyclops didn't want horse stall cleaners - but he sure was fond of dog trainers, the dung they flung, and the positions he could get them in. But I've heard that dog doesn't taste as good as horse or beef.

I dunno. I keep coming back to the thought.. they've sent a boy to do a man's job.. why is this.. confront us "vindictive" god rejectors with da "love of god".. it's just my impression.. looks like the same thing, all over again..

Didn't he write "Another Roadside Attraction"?

:) never mind

WORSE. they said mashed.

I'm sure we can get into a nice cat fight over some issue or another. . . she is an adversarial wench. . . I think I qualify as well. . . if for no other reason than to keep you amused!! :)

That is exactly what it means. . . but thankfully it now sounds like the tongues of aliens to my ears! "Mississippi Mud Hole Cult" . . . . . short, pithy, and to the point. . . . says it all. . perfect!

Geisha, you know as well as I do that "the word" is what vp and the cornfield cult (and now the Mississippi mudhole cult) claim is their inside track to gawd awlmighty. That and SIT... "Leaving the word" is code for, "you left us...*sniff-sniff* you don't love us anymore - SCREW YOU! You're all gonna go to hell!' It's overly self-obsessed, except in this case it's a whole group of folks and not just one individual.

Well now who doesn`t have a sense of humor? FYI, I didn`t call YOU stupid, I called the statement you made saying I didn`t like Grouch Stupid :) Either you were mistaken or you deliberately lied...shrug either way it was not accurate.

Well now that really IS stupid..I LIKE Groucho and enjoy his posts ...lol :) I guess I don`t think much of a teacher of any kind of style that propounds that kind of crap. I have competed in open tournaments as have my kiddoes. The tae kwon do students big dramatic movements are generally able to be countered by the shorter more direct karate techniques...shrug... Either way, The martial arts students around these parts have mutual admiration, respect and understanding of one another and their specific styles, as well as what makes each of them unique and effective. Dooj, lead with my chin or not, I post what I think, and in spite of your numerous assertions of embarrassing myself, it would be less than honest to alter my posts or opinions or style to suit you. Why not let me post my thoughts? Can we limit our comments to our opinions to the subject at hand rather than why one anothers points or opinions should be invalidated?

Naw her reputation won't suffer. She really is a nice person in RL...well she was 25 years ago anyway. For all of her occasional Sister Linda Theresa can't we all be friends kind of thing there really is nothing you can do to tarnish her reputation. If there is anyone on GSC who is still clean - it's probably LindaZ. ...now (rubbing hands together with evil grin on face)...what bad things can I say about Linda Z...

It's all good - Caleb came on here probably becuase the SOWERS program is not TWI, but based on Way Corps principles and is kind of part of an offshoot. This is one of the only places for ex-TWI members or offshoots to post publicly. Everyone's mouthy on the Internet. And it's hard to spend much time on forums when you're working on a farm long hours and doing Bible study outside of that.

I don't foresee there ever being a healthy dialogue with any leader or member of any offshoot on this board. I can only imagine what it must feel like. Probably a lot like slathering oneself with honey and standing on a hill of red ants. I've never been to a CFF meeting and have no interest in going to one. I have no stake whatsover in SOWERS and no current relationship with any of its board or staff. In other words, I have no interest in defending anything except everyone's right to express themselves here without being treated with disdain and having every word picked apart right out of the gate.

I have been known to on occasion, but I am not so sure it counts anymore. . . . you see, I actually believe Jesus Christ IS God! :) Rascal, please don't be sorry. . . I really enjoy what you say and am glad you have such a compassionate voice. It is always a pleasure. . . even when we disagree. :) I like that you mean what you say!!

He's revealed his name. So he knew what he was walking into. He also expected disagreement and said he didn't mind it. Here it is, folks. He didn't want to fight, he wanted to keep things respectful and decent. He wanted to defend v2p2.. I won't repeat the threat - he apologized for that faux pas. *added - He did show his near worship of v2p2 and was willing to fight over defending the guy.

You pray!! OMG - you're doomed!!! At this very moment your best friend is probably doing your next door neighbor - oh wait - sorry - wrong cult and you don't own a motorcoach to my knowledge.

What?

Go baby go!!!

Thinking about this stuff for a few days now...Sowers?.... Let me see if I got this straight...The grandson of the grand pubah (who just happens to have the same name) starts a "thing" that closely resembles the waycorps training, even borrowing their main objectives...word for word. From all accounts, their doctrine is aligned closely to what Vic taught... ...and now this guy shows up proclaiming himself a sowers grad...and wanting to be pals with everyone. As far as I'm concerned, he can kiss my foot. plain and simple...if you follow the doctrines of victor small wierwille, you are a loser...been there done that. What these people believe is flat out wrong and destructive to people. As far as it goes, they can spread their poison elsewhere. I have no toleration for these sons of britches...none at all.

Cue the theme song from Jeopardy... I'm with the folks who say this whole thing sounds contrived. There was a poster for some time who called himself Roy (I think) who was a big VPW booster. Maybe it's him? <_< JT

Hey Rascal, Last night I could only be on line for a couple of minutes so I had no time to respond. I LAUGHED AND LAUGHED ABOUT THE VERY FACT THAT YOU WERE STEPPING IN TO HELP ME DEAL WITH SOWERS 09. I certainly know that you know how to swing the shovel around when you feel it necessary, as a matter of fact, when I first got here one of the things that I liked the very most here at the Greasespot was how you fought it out with certain bullies. And yesterday I really feel that it might have been nice to have a friend near. Yes I was a little upset, so I'll take you words as such, a calming influence. HERE GOES THE LAUGHTER AGAIN. I mean that sincerely Rascal, with all due respect! ROFL I remember once when we were confronting somebodie's ministerial bullying and I suggested to you that we save our point for another time and another thread. And then I could only watch as you just jumped right in and kept swinging away with your little old shovel....sigh....ROFL. So while I think you are right that it is time for me to chill out now I still find great enjoyment in this particular exchange. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA But oh yeah, on a little more serious note. If my own son grew up and actually learned that it was o.k. to bully people like S.O.W.E.R.S.09 did in that first post I'd let him have it too, and I wouldn't have held back as much as I did with Sower either. This young lad needs some immediate edumacation IMO and in a case like this I feel it is perfectly acceptable for us older gents to make it perfectly clear to these kids what they are doing. Especially when a young guy is bullying vulnerable folks. I think it is perfectly legitimate for these dumbazz kids to be told their error in a manner they have already shown a willingness to utilize. And when the issue is bullying, well, whether straight up or only implied I am usually willing to think that their cure won't come from any book lernin, if you get my drift. But as to the overall topic of the thread, I feel that many of you actually know the people involved and have been keeping up with these things for some time. So I'll gladly leave you to it. Heck, I'm interested in where this thread goes too. BUT I MEANT EACH AND EVERY WORD TOO! (added in editing) Dear rascal, I hope that you know that even though I know you don't need my help with anything else going on here on this thread, I'M A WILLIN if'n you want.

No laughing here, I admire Chuck Norris and your point is absolutely valid. Now I understand a little better what you were talking about. Thanks for clarifying :) Way WAY off topic: My very favorite CN story is where he was teaching Steve Mqueen privately, and it was decided that attending a yoga class would help loosen tight muscles. The two macho men were required to don leotards, Chuck using his superior speed and agility to snatch the blue ones leaving Steve the pink....Him telling Steve to suck it up as they left the dressing room in their finery only to have Chuck quickly step back into the dressing room slam and lock the door leaving Steve out in the middle of the studio with all of the tittering ladies dressed in pink leotards :)

Yes Rascal - sounds like us 30 years ago - not 20 - and do you want him walking down the same paths we did or do you want to grab him by the shirt collar and yell "NO MAN don't do it!" Or since horror is one of your favorite terms here at GSC do you want him and his loved ones to experience the same? Come on Rascal - don't give this guy room to drown - help bail him out.

Dear Caleb...you seem like a hard worker that wants to do good,have you ever considered joining the military? I hate to see you waste your life getting sucked into the lies of false teachings by someone trying to make a buck from using a bible. The weirwille legacy is blood on there hands,blood on the plow..and spiritually it IS DARK. (save this..print it out and in 3 or 4 years get it out and read it)it seems like people here are being rude and mean to you BUT////we are really looking out for you because(we have all been there done that and never ever going back again) You have the potential to do good things with your life (don't waste it on v2p2 and a little farm is ole miss) If you go in the military you have a better chance at school, and a career and even if you go to war and get shot it will probably hurt less (than what this so called "twi "did to thousands and thousands of people" Think OUTSIDE the box! How much did this s.o.w.e.r.s. class cost you,and how much have you people been fixing the farm for little victor weirwille? This song reminds me of the way farm and the seeds the planted that were rotten. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Wolves wear sheep's clothing. . . . why sugar coat it? This guy can spare himself years of endless wandering if he gets away now. . . . might be nice for him to someday be able to comfortably attend a church or speak to someone without assessing them for "devil spirits" or to see how "off" they are in their believing. I don't think that is harsh. . . just truthful. He already has an idol built. . . threatening violence to protect him. I. . . . for one. . . . find that odd. Wish someone had laid it out for me. My life might have been very different. Run away. . . . run away. . . . that family is poison. . . and hey. . . I always LIKED Sarah and Kevin.

You say you are not a violent man?Yet right off you want to kick someones a@s? Buddy thank god for our society,there is laws against your type of behavior.

Gee--Its a tough and impatient crowd around here tonight--Im sort of hoping S'09 sticks around for at least a little while and we get to hear what an insider, a 'believer", has to say before a brawl breaks out and we never get any info from him again....do me a favor and give him a little bit of a break and let him speak a bit before the mauling commences -- will ya? Whether I agree or dont-I do want to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it will add to the knowledge pool Y'all have to admit that it was sort of gutsy in away for him to come here in the first place considering that we here are probably just as stereotyped to him as he is to us... Now....to S09 ..Speak up lad....Im trying to be respectful to you as you asked--I hope that you can respect that....--I have some honest questions back on page one---start there

I've been thinking, strange as is may seem this does happen upon occassion. :blink: So what I've been thinking about was our recovery as believers from the screwed up stuff that we assimilated in TWI. Recenty several "events" have taken place that I have been privy to and in each event the person involved had stood up to a person that they would never have thought of asserting themselves to even a week prior. They had suddenly realized that yes indeed they do have a backbone or had grown one quite recently. For those of you who have grown a backbone...good on you. It apparently is spreading and I honestly hope that it becomes an epidemic among the ex-twits. So often when we were "in" we had simulated backbones. Backbones that depended upon the organization to remain rigid. Once that organization either abandoned us or spurned us we suddenly became jelly fish. Because we believed the bill of goods that they sold us. "We were nothing without them." But now we are learning that we are "somebody" without TWI. We have a purpose and we can be happy and productive. Heck we can even be spiritual if we want to. But most of all we are "somebody" so we have the right to stand up for ourselves and we have the right to be heard and our opinion does count. In the ministry many of us did things that hurt people in the name of the ministry and its false god vp. Often we were hateful and unfeeling or uncaring of others feelings. But now that we are not subject to TWI's false doctrines we can and should employ great compassion for our fellow humans. Remember that Christ is our example. He was strong and told people exactly what he thought. And what he thought was what God would be thinking. JC always did things with compassion and sometimes that means that you don't bend, it means that you stand your ground and take the heat so somebody else doesn't have to. If you are going to take the front then take the front. Jesus Christ stood in front of us before we were even born and took our transgessions to the Cross with him. He had a real backbone. And we are to imitate him. Just thought that I would share the .02 cents that I found while digging in my couch with you.

They were at Rome City Campus on staff in late 1980's when people were getting the loyalty letter from "Loy". Don't know if they stayed in or finally wised up.

I found this study (recently published in the L.A. Times) to be rather enlightening: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/pdf/2005-11.pdf (Don't be intimidated by the apparent length of it, the last half is simply graphs and footnotes) So the question comes to mind, just what is it that those who are religiously disposed actually "get" out of their faith? Does it make you a better person? More at peace? More loving? More productive? More charitable? What? Worshipping as I do, at the altar of pragmatism, I'm not much inclined to study the Bible anymore, or pray, or make any sort of supplications to a being that may well not even exist. It never did anything for me in the past, and I don't see that pattern changing anytime soon so... But the question still lingers, what is it about one's faith that keeps them coming back? From my perspective I can't see as anyone has had anymore dramatic input from The Almighty than I have. But then, this sort of thing is really subjective. So, what is it? What is it about your beliefs that keep you at it?