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Or perhaps old puke from last night's bad drunk. It's still fun to make fun of memories of them worshiping over the porcelain god and speaking in liquid screams. Shot 'o Drambuie anyone?

What happened to all my prayers? Ya know, before I ever heard of The Way, I had no idea my prayers were second rate. Then I got witnessed to and found out I had it all wrong. See, you can't actually talk to God like you talk to everyone else. You have to have this special language, that they speak in the land of Lo Shanta, or God won't have a clue what you're talking about.And, God can't talk back to you either unless you talk to yourself in this new language lots and lots every day. And you have to make a real effort to expand your vocabulary, too, or God will just keep telling you the same stuff over and over again. Heck, I've even heard people say they prayed to God for answers (without the Lo Shanta stuff) and, presto, someone from TWI appeared to invite them to Twig and sign them up for PLAF. But, how can that be if God can't understand your prayers in the first place? So then my question is this: What happened to all those prayers I said before I heard of TWI?

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime. Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle. It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor." So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are. I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

So without further response from Caleb is this how we are to see this exchange end? One young man takes a small step out of the Mississipi swamp and into a place where all his beliefs he must knew may be challeged. He gives an aggressive post with a direct threat while claiming he will be handling questions and conversations for months to come. And as soon as a teany little bit of heat arrives he steps out, omly to never be heard from again. OMG I would like to believe the young man is o.k., but nobody that knows anything is saying! Is he being shut in with a bunch of faithful for a patented TWI style "healing". Are they mad at us enough to foolishly desire to carry out the feelings of anger in the initial post? Is the young man strong enough to realize that our intentions were for his own good and it may be that his "manoGod" is the real villain? But even though v2p2 may well be carrying out that role I do personally feel compassion for a young man who himself has been indoctrinated into his supposed life's purpose. TOO MANY QUESTIONS, TOO FEW ANSWERS. IMO

Maybe irrelevant.

Its not old news for all of us that gave our time & money for a rot hole place called THE WAY INTERNATIONAL that claimed to be a place of god. It wont be old news until no one is standing for or preaching their crap and that land in ohio is washed away . and only then will it be old news !!

Oh for Pete's sake, Oldies..........quit SPINNING and DANCING around the room. Wierwille BETRAYED his committed followers......most notably, the WOWs and the Corps. As a young and naive WOW, catcup's sister came face-to-face with wierwille's sexual motorcoach lusts and, when she refused, she was kicked off the WOW field. And, its well documented on the forums how wierwille went after the Corps women..!!!!! Can't you see the snare...??? With no accountability for his actions......and being in a well-protected, multi-tiered yes-men hierarchy, wierwille's TRUE COLORS CAME FORTH. What he was.......behind closed doors..... was his TRUE CHARACTER. Those public appearances were just showmanship......no more, no less. Wierwille BETRAYED "his" corps........he sold many of us down the river. He couldn't even keep his commitment to us regarding THE CORPS CHALET. He gave it to his top yes-boy......craig. There is a HUGE chasm between............freely serving God without compulsion as opposed to being manipulated by a con-man who winks with his eyes and speaks with his fingers (Proverbs reference). But hey.........if you, Oldies, want to stay deceived about "the good ole way-daze" have at it. Doesn't look like too many folks here are buying what you are attempting to sell.

Shellon and Leafy, thanks. I will keep you posted on my progress. I survived my pre-birthday celebration last nite!!

Just when you thought the beast breathed its last breath.. there it is again.. Its not twi so much anymore, I don't think. Its its spawn.. organizations who embrace the same theology, arrogance, tiered organizational structure, practical methods of beating submission and subservience into the lower tier, unchallengeable authority for those on top, and the like. Particular beliefs do not really bother me. Its the other issues they inherited from the mother organization. And they think twi was a good thing, that just went "sour" when the "bad people" came along.. I think ANY organization, who produces trainees who sing the praises of a "great manogawd" who happens to be a under thirty year old, unmarried (probably still) inexperienced still sopping wet behind the ears KID.. qualifies as dangerous. They inherit the arrogance of vic I, that one can just read the bible, and PRESUME to be "God's Spokesman".. As far as the way itself, I think they are hobbled, damaged, and even if they repent in sack-cloth and ashes, likely will not recover.. so the discussion isn't so much about them any more, at least in my opinion. I think it is highly relevant addressing it's spawn.. using the same tools, trying to produce different results..

:lol: ok I think we need to look at this like the whole kingdom of heaven in pfal.... you know, the fascist dictatorship/twictatorship was OVER ALL but each administration has its own special features that make it its own brand... like the victatorship was pretty consistent, but the next dictator morphed from a licktatorship to the loytatorship (god the horror) and then there's RR, who I really don't know what to say about at all because we mostly seemed to be sheep milling about under her direction as she stripped away most of the concentration camp features and left us only with the underlying theology that developed under previous dictators. when she croaks, do you think there will be anything democratic about twi? I think it's likely it will continue on as it is, just becoming less and less charismatically run until it fades into non-existence.

no respect. no respect at all. not only are you reviling my holy name, you are reviling the names of my progeny. I can't rain fire and brimstone on you - my potato powers don't extend to that - so I'll have to settle for shaking the crumbs from the bottom of the bag over your head.

please do not take my name in vain.

If it's me, RumR, you may feel free to have at it. I give you my permission. :) Frankly, I think after a few years on here we can predict what a lot of people are going to say before they say it. Exsie, my friend (and I know you know I"m your friend and vice versa), I do see the evil. It's just not all I see. I'm glad you love me anyway, because I sure love you! 'Scuze me. I must go to prepare my next sermon.

i don't know. is it socks and linzee ? people that empathize but don't see the evil i do ? just asking.....

Hey, get this. I just googled ""The Way International" scumbags" and my thread in the "new member" section was number six on the list. Thanks for the inspiration Tater! Take Care.

heh, well I found by searching google that the only thing on twitter about twi was a flurry of scorn over the March '07 videos they posted. apparently twits do not tweet... or they're very secretive about their association with twi.

Ham,I always knew there was an einstien in ya.For me it was at 35 almost 36,to learn somthing new,working at a chemical plant was awesome for me,I was always fascinated by plumbing,now almost 20 years later,and somewhat closer to retirement. I still have "fun"at what I do. The waY though,it was like playing in the sand,ya know like on tv,these people build these huge sand castles,in a contest,then someone trys to blow it up,you still only end up with a pile of sand.The "quote"leadership around these parts were college educated making in excess of 250000 a year,so its real easy to say believe god,he will meet your need,folks as you know most of the time money is what you need to meet a need,that involves a decent job,twi is sand smokescreen and a whole lotta bs.

how do you know that? I already asked if there was a signed contract stating terms of use. if there wasn't, then twi only had first sale rights and after that they cannot control where a tape or set of tapes or a syllabus goes.

Originals might be exempt under certain circumstances. (I think.) For example, I still have my set of individual collaterals that came with the class before they were combined into the blue book, the green book, etc. These, I believe were published and distributed before the copyrights were issued and have no copyright markings in them.

Why are the "Smart" people are supposed to answer Pond's question? Why are the "Smart" people supposed to go digging through the forums for her? I asked Pond a question and she didn't answer me. That is okay I suppose, no one says you HAVE to respond. But, Rascal and Waysider need to go digging up accounts posted in the last nine years to satisfy her curiousity?? Do you REALLY think you made a point here Pond? I don't think so. Sometimes this place really creeps me out.

You are mistaken. About Us Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe! GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery. We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering. Look at our WayDale Documents section and see for yourself what information has come to light as a result of lawsuits against TWI, resignations of various limb and branch coordinators, letters from Martindale to the Way Corps regarding controversial issues and policies, notes from actual Way Corps meetings, and much more. Consider the longstanding patterns of conspiracy at the trustee level, questionable doctrines and practices, ongoing cover-ups, and sexual abuse of numerous women at the hands of certain TWI leaders. It's no wonder that TWI is desperately trying to shield their followers from this information by warning them off the Internet. We think that if you give this information an honest reading, you'll see that you haven't been told the whole story. Browse through our forums and read what people are saying about their experiences in TWI. Find old friends or make new ones. Elicit support or offer an insight. Share information or simply read and consider. The opinions expressed here are often passionate and while disagreements are not uncommon, the online Ex-Way community is a great arena for conversing and connecting with others. You may get caught in a food fight now and then, but unlike TWI, GreaseSpot Cafe is a place where questions are encouraged and people make up their own minds.

I can say this honestly with no hesitation whatsoever. Leadership in my splinter group destroyed my life and others with false accusations. What went hand in hand with the lives they destroyed was a false and insane opinion of there spiritual authority and their competency. I have heard many sharings that have made it clear that my former splinter group leadership learned how to do these things from top TWI leadership. I wish my former splinter group was willing to consider people like me to be not guilty without hard evidence. But the greasespotters that I've heard since I came hear are in an altogether better universe than TWI leadership was in terms of handling these things IMO. Well, at least the ones who are not casting doubt on honest victims by calling into question many experiences and documented occurrences. When the documentation fits the personal sharings so well, it seems very reasonable to believe the sharings without having anything specific reason to doubt them. Right now I am most thankful for the many Greasespotters who have been brave enough to share their experiences in spite of the oppressive nature of some of the opposition. So when it is all said and done for me, the Greasespotters have done a better job in these things than TWI leadership, and better too than those who cast doubt on reasonable and honest testimony (edited for spelling)

Actually you have "passed judgment." It is your judgment (opinion) that you can't say someone is guilty of a crime unless that person has been tried and convicted in a court of law. In your eyes that person is innocent and evidence is not factual unless it has been "proven" through the process of litigation. You also assume that only the legal system can determine fact or truth. It's an interesting standard, one which I don't believe is practical. Do you apply that standard to every situation?

wouldn't dogged adherence to information proven untrue be APEITHEIA?

Stepping up to the microphone is a bit like stepping up to the plate in baseball. You have to have a certain confidence that you are about to hit one out of the park. Call it ego if you want but it is a vital part of making a connection with the audience. Some people are so incredibly talented, like Eva Cassidy, they can pull it off without that confidence. They are the exception. Taking away that confidence is like telling a right handed batter he has to bat left.

That is impressive Dove, truly. It still isn`t in residence corpes participation. Which is what we are talking about on this thread.

why is it, WD, that you feel you have to one-up rascal all the time? you didn't go through corps training, and her statement was correct. spouse corps didn't go through the grueling 3 years of slavery (my entire apprentice year was easier than the week I spent in residence), from what I could see being spouse corps was at the worst like being apprentice corps, where you live to do the leadership bidding day and night and constantly prove yourself good enough... yeah I can see that. BUT, you didn't get the in-residence experience by osmosis just because you got married.

Only to you friend. Your nameless faceless informants inflections and mannerisms of 2nd hand information have what kind of credibility when countering the first hand accounts of the people here, accounts by leaders whom are NOT nameless or faceless...that cooroborate tha worst stories of drugging and rape?

why should I have reason to doubt what excathedra or Kristin have testified?

ok, I misunderstood you. after re-reading your opinion, I see that you mean one can take the testimony as factual OR non-factual, not that you take it either way. actually, what I did was paste in the entire definition, so that people could see that guilt is not just a legal term, but can be a point of fact. I did not cherry-pick the definition that fit my argument, which you did, and apparently improperly cited as well. for what?

no, then resting in the nice cool water, the burner is turned on. the heat gradually rises until the frog is boiled to death without a struggle, not having noticed the danger it was in until it was too late. on the other hand, if you toss a frog into boiling water it'll do it's best to escape in the seconds of life before it boils to death. note: I haven't tested this. snopes (http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp) reports the fable is not true, but although it is false it aptly illustrates what happens when things change from good to horrific over time, instead of just being visibly horrific from the get-go.

American Heritage Dictionary: fact n. 1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy. 2. a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact. b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case. c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts. 3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact. 4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact. dog crap on the lawn is information based on a real occurrence (namely the dog crapping on the lawn), ergo it is a fact that crap on the lawn is a fact, because it can be demonstrated to have existed if anyone saw the dog put it there.

I can't believe I spelled criminal wrong in my last post. . . sorry would not let me edit. I need to seriously spell check.

I never saw a response to this question. Might also be interesting to note that not everyone who posts here is in America.

Well, that's what VPW taught in PFAL but, as we have seen, the expressions "spirit in" and "spirit on" are used in both the NT and the OT. To assume that no one during the Gospel period could observe anything outside a senses point of view seems a bit too restrictive in my opinion. I propose that If God had wanted to reveal something to people during the Gospel period, it would certainly have been within his power, as defined in the OT.

WTF? Investigated your finances? You mean, rummaged through your bank accounts somehow? Or just asked you questions (based on your previous shocking health bills, how date you? (tongue in cheek))? I don't detect any sympathy in the article for those who don't have the opportunity for "secular degrees" and to pursue higher paying work.

"You're the best" While on one level I think that this is a true statement, it at least implies kindness and support on Wierwille's part. I'm certain that everyone who was bullied or otherwise abused by Wierwille and his chosen kids think that he lied when he said it. (edited for clarity)

The integrity of "The Word" is always at stake. (What the heck does that even mean?)

what did vpw say about humpty dumpty? because i think he got it wrong like most everyone else does breaking was never humpty's issue...he wasnt even an egg accuracy ...yeah

If entire teachings were copied word-for-word, and if Wierwille's writing style was sophmoric, then yes, the writing style of the original author would necessarily also be sophmoric. I've seen side-by-side comparisons that showed how certain sections of books by Stiles and Leonard were copied pretty close to word-for-word, with a few terms or some words changed here and there, but have not heard or seen anything to indicate that whole chapters, books or teachings were copied wholesale. As far as error-ridden teachings of Wierwille being derived from others; sure, that does mean that the underlying teachings are error-ridden as well. Although I've seen several instances where Wierwille used Bullinger to back up his teachings, but misunderstood or misrepresented what Bullinger actually wrote, thereby changing the teaching.

voted #5 with 3 as a back up. btw, I bet if VPW saw something white on gas pumps, it was either crop dusting or manufacturing plant with air pollution. Or he was an early LSD experiment user, long before Timothy o"Leary.

I have no doubt he made it up but I sure believed it when I heard it. HE was very Charismatic and they are usually very good liars... I am not saying a compulsive liar that is something totally different. But he may have really convinced himself that it happened . Who knows.. I remember in the class thinking he wouldn't just say that if it wasn't so.. People must have already checked weather reports and such.. it has to be true. Good Grief I was such a dork thinking anyone else was checking this stuff out.

I seem to recall back in 1976 that we (my wow family) were informed that it wasn't "Christmas" anymore...we were now to refer to this pagan holiday as "Happy Household Holiday"...or as it became known as "Happy Ho Ho"... Somehow the idea of Christmas wasn't part of what Vic saw that night when snow fell on the gaspumps. The absent Christ's birthday would not be celebrated in the same way that lesser Christians celebrated it. It would be different...part of that elitist mindset that said "We REALLY know the truth, you just think you do...SCHMUCK!"...we couldn't hold on to their "traditions" now could we?...not without putting our own spin on it... ...it was all part of the effort to isolate us from the real world and indoctrinate us into their little cult world...a world where even Santa was marked and avoided.

Sorry if I derailed the thread - I just happened to recognize it having spent a lot of time in South Am.

Manipulation,Pure and simple,Put on The Way International sunglasses,everything becomes rose colored, ah yes sweet deception,added to the fact I was young impressionable,looking for friendship..... Lcms book was twi in a nutshell,Pretty blue cover,How to understand the bible,we have the answers, A semi complicated formula Throw out a few greek words supsema..ect... When was it written? At the end of Pauls life?Sure could not have been for the "believer"Remember they had all "departed from Paul"what I thought was true may not be,After all you have to see it in the originals,Heck there are no originals!So it is no more than a compiliation of stories,that mysteriously survived for a few hundred years than was copied into adnauseum copies?Putting whoevers copied it ideas into the mix? Maybe throughout the last 2 centuries there have been lots of wierwilles and lcms around,to twist it the way they wanted it? Ya gotta take it on faith brother!

Maybe, vpw learned the value of subtle arrogance..........AFTER being kicked out of that Van Wert denomination back in the 50s?

I'm gonna pass on clicking the link because I remember ck too well now, but I encourage newcomers to do so. ck's writing is a good example of what happens to your brain when you make a man into a god. anyway, ck's "reviews" have been appropriately commented on, so I doubt anyone looking at buying the book would take them very seriously.

T-bone.....I know its a rhetorical question, but I'd like to answer it for others. :) Although wierwille had seen people come and go constantly throughout his "ministry".......it wasn't until the WOW program and Corps program that wierwille was able to really strongarm (with false prophecies) people to follow thru on their "commitments to God." Anything that stood in the way of fulfilling this/these commitments was "of the devil" and to be squelched. Pregnancies were to be aborted. Family affairs were to be disregarded. By the mid-70s, wierwille racheted up his vocabulary with the term "cop-out." Any and all corps who left twi, especially upper leadership, were viciously slandered and labeled on Tuesday Night's corps night. The term "cop-out" was incorporated into the wayspeak vocabulary. During those years, many 4th-6th corps were labeled as such.......and never heard from again. Funny, how wierwille had to incorporate his own branding of terminology.....not something from the Scriptures. That SHOULD have been our first red flag. :) On three different in-house, corps meetings........I personally saw wierwille VERBALLY ABUSE corps with a tongue-lashing with poisonous venom. All three incidents ended with wierwille yelling something about the person devil possessed and evil incarnate. I've shared these episodes before on this forum. Yeah...........BAD memories from wierwille and bot. The only good memories I have.......are linked with good-hearted people who love and loved God. But when weighed in the balance of a systematizing of spiritual abuse, the "good" is not reall all that good. <_<

such a heartbreaking account of how evil and mean people can be (never mind in the name of God) dear bowtwi, are you going to let your wonderful son read this thread? either way, i really want you both to know how sorry i am and how much i admire your strength and your loving magnificent hearts (((((((bowtwi and bowtwi jr.)))))))

but why am i laughing so hard yo mama so stupid, when she took you to the airport and a sign said "Airport Left," she turned around and went home yo mama so stupid, she tried to wake up a sleeping bag yo mama so stupid, she tripped over a cordless phone