Nottawayfer

I was thinking of another example about my quote from the other thread. When LCM was caught with his pants down, I was talking to my Cabinet Overseer's wife. She worked with me. She mentioned that a woman had come to her about having sex with Wierwille. This woman was distraught over it. This Cabinet Overseer's wife said, "Do we leave the Word??" To her, the sin was justified by staying with "the Word". Where did "the Word" come from? It was taught out of the mouth of an adultering drunk. That ruins his credibility IMHO. I'm not saying EVERYTHING was wrong, but it was nowhere perfect like we thought. There seems to be a huge disconnect in TWI that the ministry is the Word. When you put 2 and 2 together and you keep remembering things like "Practical error always leads to doctrinal error", you have to come to the conclusion that Wieriwille's doctrine wasn't as right as we were lead to believe. You have to believe you can leave TWI and still be in God's graces. That's really hard for some. It takes some longer than others. Wayfers today don't deduct to that level because the doctrine has been pushed in to their brains day after day, year after year. I got tired of seeing people treated terribly while the prevailing thought was that it was acceptable because it was reproof. Reproof was a one-sided abuse which allowed leadership to attack individuals. In TWI it wasn't meant to reprove leadership. We were taught to revere leadership or expect extreme consequences. Romans 13 was knocked in to our brains. We wouldn't dare confront leadership. I know there were some brave people who tried to reprove Wierwille and his actions, and those were the ones who were kicked out and labeled "Possessed". Girls who were too hurt from his actions were also labeled possessed and kicked out. It was all damage control. It was not godly. There's no way anyone can convince me that God worked in that man or the organization. There are people with good hearts, and I know God honors them. Supporting TWI is no different than putting lipstick on your pig.

The biggest thing that stood out in my mind when I was in turmoil about leaving TWI was: PRACTICAL ERROR ALWAYS LEADS TO DOCTRINAL ERROR I heard LCM says that soooo many times when I was on Staff. My eyes started to open the last few years I was at HQ. I left in 2001. After LCM got caught with his pants down, I began to think that there was more to it than what was told to us. The practical error bothered me, and I wasn't sure about TWI. But the fear of having nowhere to go kept me in TWI. Right after the Allens left HQ, they tried to do damage control by telling us all at HQ that they were devilish and made horrible accusations against the BOT. Then I went out on the field, and I started thinking more. Then I came to GSC and saw the sex thing always happened. I saw another side of the story about LCM, Wierwille, and many other things which happened in TWI. And my thoughts about practical error always leading to doctrinal error made me question what I was taught even more. Sure, they are less confrontational until you tick them off. I'm sure Rozilla has reamed a few since the kinder gentler times. She reamed me once for a very small thing. That was pretty common for many leaders. I think they were trying to exercise their "leadership" muscle rather than being an example of God's love. I haven't seen teeth in God's love since leaving TWI. I see people make mistakes, and they need to be shown the error or their way. They never deserve a reaming. Nobody deserves to be reamed, EVER!!! I don't care how "off the word" someone is. Just typing that phrase makes me want to puke because they are so hypocritcal about what is "on" or "off" the word. I'm waiting for certain leadership's life-style to become exposed. That will establish more practical error, and those that stay will have to once again find an excuse to stay because of their fear that there's nowhere else to go.

I know her, but I haven't seen her in 7 years.

Currently we have a 2007 Nissan Frontier 4WD and a 2002 Honda Accord. We like them a lot. In the past, I've had Ford Pinto, Escort, and Taurus and a Pontiac Fiero. Hubby had Dodge Pickups and PT Cruiser. They just didn't seem to be as well made as our "foreign" cars. You really can't call them foreign anymore. They are all made here for the most part. I remember Honda Plant near Columbus, Ohio. I believe Toyota has plants in the midwest as well. It is interesting that the amount that Ford, GM, and Chrysler have tied up in to their vehicles compared to the others. The unions have really screwed it up my opinion. Here's a link I found about the auto industry: Auto Industry Comparisons I'm a county worker, and times are lean with people unable to pay their property taxes. If I had to take a cut in pay to keep my job, I would. I can't imagine what it would be like to make $73 an hour. Maybe they could afford a pay cut as well if it meant keeping their job and benefits. The 3 big auto companies should be ashamed to ask the government to give them a handout. They should learn from this experience. They way they've handled business has been a bad example to American business. I feel sorry for the people who have depended on havinig jobs with them for their life. We had the Ford Proving Grounds where I live. It was one of the best places to get a job. Ford sold it to Chrysler over a year ago, and Chrysler said they would have many jobs available as of last April when they opened it up. It appears the only activity out there is those who lease the grounds for their own testing. When Ford sold, they told people either they had to retire or move to Michigan. Most who moved to Michigan were laid off shortly after relocating and bought houses. They will be stuck there for awhile.

I don't remember it personally as I was 27 days old. I'm sure I was sucking bottles, sleeping, and pooping my diaper. Even so, it has an effect on me even now as it was a tragic time in American history.

What a great analagy WW. I keep up with a few friends who I knew on Staff. It's amazing to me how their lives are not their own while still being on Staff. They can't take vacations whenever they want. They can't date or marry whomever they wish. They can't leave until the ministry year is over, and even when it is over they can't leave unless they fight for it at placement time. One friend in particular told their overseer that they wanted to move to an area to be near their aging mother, which is a warm area of the county. The overseer said "Yeah? We all want to go there too." This overseer has been a major manipulator in TWI and has been at HQ for 20 years or more. Even the idiot overseer doesn't see he should be able to go where he wants when he wants. Stay in bondage for all I care. Hopefully they all figure it out some day. What a waste of life. Next month will be 6 years out for me!! It's been AWESOME!!!

hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen bumperstickers which say "Rush is Reich!" That was hella funny to see. I completely disrespect Limbaugh because of his inability to speak like an adult when he disagrees with the evil liberal demmies. He addressed Obama as "Lord Obama" as if Obama was trying to put himself in that sort of position. I wasn't a huge Obama fan, but I could see through the BS Limbaugh was promoting. I think he says things like that because he is an EXTREME conservative who can't stand liberals. Even if Obama came in to office and cleared the whole national debt in one month, people like Limbaugh would still try to discredit him. I believe there are liberal democrats who have the same terrible attitudes about conservative Republican. They are no better than Limbaugh, and they are equally distasteful. I wonder why it's not as easy to hear their radio shows. Oh, I forgot, the mainstream media is liberal. That is the part which I believe is extremely sad about our country. There is so much prejudice between the left and right. Until we are able to hear (agreeance not required) without shooting darts, then we will always be a county divided. It reminds me of little kids fighting over the same toy. Each one is right in their own mind, and the other has to be bad because they stole MY toy!! I personally think it takes ideas from both sides to get a balance. I don't label myself one way or the other.

Someone's using their precious name again in their website. I wonder how long it will be before they send them a letter from their attorney telling them to remove the name they stole from the Bible??? I bet they wouldn't even know about it for a long time unless someone brought it to their attention. Howdy Mr. Linder!! Happy Veteran's Day!! How was the fried chicken and mashed potatoes?? The Way

Friends seems to be an overstatement to me. A friend is someone you call up to come to your house to have a BBQ with your family. A friend is someone you call up to see a movie. A friend is someone you golf with on the weekend. Friends? I think these people were more like acquaintances who Barack Obama had interaction with because of work-related issues. Just because some of these people have extreme sides they stand on doesn't mean Barack Obama agrees with them. Obama Comments on Rev. Wright We can be freaked out about the accusations about who Obama keeps company with, but the reality is that he doesn't have complete power over this nation. There are too many in congress and the house who would not allow a cover-up terrorist to turn this country over to muslims (black, middle eastern or otherwise). Congress and the house have too much money and benefits riding in their interest. I think many of these things were brought up as "what if" to put it out in the public knowledge. It's called campaign smearing. I work for an elected official. This year's campaign was bad because we had an ex-employee with sociopathic tendencies run against him this year. I found dirt on my boss's opponent. I had our opponent tied to a southern Nevada Porn King who made the movie "Deep Throat". But the only way I could link the opponent was through is previous employment at our office. My boss didn't want to go that route. That information in a highly conservative area would have never given this guy a chance. This guy spread many vicious and half-truth rumors on media about my boss. Thankfully, it turned out to be a 65/35 vote in favor of my boss. Thankfully people in our area didn't believe the crap the opponent was spreading. After listening to AM talk radio every day for the last few months, I am convinced that it is mostly a Republic/Democrat thing for most conservatives. I was so sickened over it. Hearing Rush Limbaugh really made me want to puke. They will try to find anythign which discredits a man EVEN AFTER HE HAS BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT.

I knew them in Northern California in the late 80s. Then they moved to Florida right before 1990. That's the last I've heard or seen of them.

There is so much emphasis on the words "I have a dream...." I like the second parts of these phrases of Dr. King's speech much better. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I especially love the last line. We still don't judge people by the content of their character all the time. This goes for those of color, those with disabilities, those who are uneducated, those who are gay, those who suffer mental illness, or those who are different in any way. I have a dream that we will practice the tolerance of which we speak.

I loved your post NIKA. We do have hope, and as a united country, we can accomplish so much more. I voted for McCain, but not out of extreme support. I guess it was out of fear and indecision. When I heard Obama's speech on Tuesday night, I was moved as I saw a man who believes and cares for this country. He even addressed those who didn't vote for him by saying "And to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn – I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your President too." That shows me heart. I believe he will work to unify this country. Political party lines have divided this country in a huge way. Politics is an area which causes people to speak and treat each other in terrible ways. Maybe we can become one nation indivisible. Maybe we can learn to hear other points of view without tearing down. It is impossible to have a President who makes every single American happy. That job is not one I would ever desire. But I have a huge amount of respect for Barack Obama. I did not feel that way until Tuesday night after he won. I look forward to the future again.

I had a friend in Toledo who ran in to LCM a few times, and she went to his apartment at least once. Thinking back, I believe she boinked him. I think this because of her extreme need to feel wanted by men, and her unrelenting support of LCM. She said he spoke to her about the women he had relations with and how they were willing and horny as dogs to sleep with him. I believe that could have been the case for a FEW of them. Certainly many had to be convinced to do that sort of thing. The way my "friend" relayed information is that LCM thought he was having affairs, not sexually abusing women. I'm sure his twisted mind thinks that is true as he forgets how he had some of them groomed to be his play toy and how they manipulated people in to thinking it was godly to service the MOG. I believe LCM's mind is so twisted, he can't see the truth. I feel badly for his son. He probably knows TWI is a bunch of $h*t. He only grew up with his dad being served like a King. Of course he's going to think his dad was wronged by TWI. I'm sure he loves his dad. He is in a tough spot none of us will probably ever experience. I pray he can see the truth of the situation and live a mentally healthy and prosperous life.

I didn't read this whole thread, but I thought what is the harm in showing someone a little compassion and let them know change is an option. Too many times, expecially in my later years in TWI, people had to fit the mold in order to be invited to fellowship. If they were too weird, we wouldn't witness to them. As a matter of fact, if someone yard looked crappy, we wouldn't knock on their door. TWI's god is a respector of persons. You do have to be careful who you invite in to your life; but if you take a moment to show some kindness and compassion, surely it can give that person some sort of hope or happiness.

If I had a specific situation that bugged me, I would ask them about it. Otherwise, I would believe they were wearing rose-colored glassess like most of us were and let bygones be bygones.

I saw her mug every day for five years, and that is not Rozilla. I am 100% positive. I think the guy with the website must have worked on Staff and asked Joe Coulter for a reference. I think the website belongs to Jim Ell*s for anyone who knows him or caress. I listened to the video clip, and the music seems way too loud to be able to hear the person talking.

In my home town, the highschools put their school letter on the surrounding hills.

Penguin, A lot of snorkel renting companies have prescription snorkel masks now. I have to warn you though: Once you snorkel, you won't want to stop. Then you will be mad at yourself for not doing it when you were in Cozumel, which is some of the best diving in the world according to Jacques Cousteau. I am amazed at the beauty seen in the water. I am a proud of my snorkel addiction, and I refuse to give it up.

I could definitely be wrong when they started the decade of prevailing. The most important point about it is they've been claiming that for more than a decade. So much for them paying sooooo close attention to details. Shame on Way Pub for missing that!!!

"72. Don’t listen to people who … don’t think that “Afternoon Delight” is the greatest song ever." That is priceless.... Now I'm going to have that song in my head today.....Thanks Shell!!

Last I knew Eldon Runkee had left HQ in 1999 or 2000 and moved back to the Portland, Oregon, area. He is a really good guy, and LCM raked Eldon and his family over the coals.

The decade of prevailing started in 1997 when Martinpuke declared the promised land of the prevailing word. Yep, it's been way past 10 years, which is a decade. Are they idiots? That was a retorical question.

I think it's sacrilige to go somewhere where's there's beautiful water and not even consider snorkeling. Please tell me you are floating face down in the water to visit the fish world?We just snorkeled Kealakekuah/Captain Cook Monument on the Big Island of Hawaii, and I'm still dreaming of the schools of colorful fish who swam around me. It was the most beautiful snorkeling even above Cozumel, Mexico. I'm having nightmares about the little bastage humahumanukanukaapua'a who charged me.

It's too bad that the Goldman and Brown families couldn't see the same justice when it was due.