Nottawayfer

The reason others weren't "spiritual enough" to handle it is because they wouldn't be able to hide and keep it underground. It would have been exposed, and the WOWs were out there being public representatives of the ministry to be sure it looked better than it was. HOWEVER, how many of you had problems with your WOW family members screwing each other? I had a WOW sister who couldn't keep her legs together, and she screwed 2 of our 3 WOW brothers. It caused a lot of problems for our family. When they put single men and women together, I wonder WTF?? Did they actually think nothing would happen? No other Christian organization would even allow women and men to dwell together in an outreach program. Most churches I've been apart of don't allow counseling between men and women in private. It's a way to keep accountability.

I'm waiting for that revealing story to come out. You know it HAS to some day. People in top positions can't hide their dark actions for long. Their revealing usually comes at some time. I wonder if VPW had died later if he would have suffered persecution based on his adulterous actions.

It was calmy presented from his perspective, and I appreciate it a lot. It shows me he doesn't have an axe to grind. Obviously he moved on with his life. I'm not sure why some people want to discredit him. Maybe it's because he told the truth about their idol?

Yes, the audio was good. I listened to part of it at home on my lunch hour. I COULDN'T wait for the rest, so I hooked myself up with headphones at my desk. Other people listen to music on their mp3 players at work, so I figure it's OK to do it while I work.

Here's a point I've been pondering since listening to this interview: Donna Martindale was there to support Craig at the Yak Twig because he was so out of it. Surely she had to have been there when Ralph confronted them all about the adultery, and she had to have been there when Ralph confronted Craig about the 15th Corps girl he kept bugging for sex. It sure raises my eyebrows considering she is portrayed as a women wh didn't know her husband's activity outside their marriage.

Dogs must love tissue. My dog digs only in the bathroom trash. He shreds tissues, toilet paper, or tampons (ewwww!!!). His alltime favorite is Qtips. He LOVES to bring those out and chew the cotton off in the dining room. I usually leave the bathroom door shut, but he seems to always find his way there if I forget.

Godiva

Dakota, Welcome back!! I wonder where the hell you've been. Glad to see you.

Brown sugar

I can drink some beer tonight to be sure there is plenty of p i s s for your Wheaties in the morning WTH. WTF??

You aren't kidding it was a confusing time. I didn't know who to believe or listen to. It was even more so for many years after that. I was in Texas during that time. Robert Belt was the Limb coordinator. When he left, the remaining leadership spoke badly of him. I didn't know him, but the leadership's words had an impact on me. Shame on me. I left Texas in 1988 and was going to leave TWI too. I went home to the small Oregon town I was from. But then I ended up in a metropolitan area, and I went back to Twig to do the vicious cycle all over again. By then the Trustees separated themselves from Geer, and that ROA was horrible. It was all about giving your allegiance to Craig. It's hindsite now. Boy, what a ride....And I thought I was doing it all for God. Good thing He knows hearts.

I had a chocolate lab named Hershey. He was the best dog in the whole world. I still miss him... I would love to get another, but I have 2 others dogs right now. My husband had another named Snickers.

I'm sorry to see the derailing of whether JC was mentioned or not. I hear a story of a man who wanted to do what was godly. I listened to this today, and my head is spinning. I wish I was able to hear this 21 years ago, but I'm not sure it would have changed anything for me. Only God knows. I remember hearing about Ralph and John's letter, but I was told not to read it or I would be possessed like they are. I am baffled that I believed that. I'm sorry I thought they were possessed back then. I remember going to the advanced class that year and hearing people whisper "Ralph D left the ministry." We knew it meant something. If only I knew the half of it. I never heard Passing of the Patriarch until I came to GSC. I didn't leave TWI until December 2002. I am convinced Craig made TWI even a bigger cult than VPW did. I known a lot of people who would benefit from hearing this. It really tied up a lot of loose ends for me. Obviously Ralph is a man of honor, and he did what he could to make things right without putting his family in harm's way. God speed to him and his family. Thank you for sharing your story.

I know my lonliness and being divorced for 9 years helped me to be a better person. There were a lot of times it sucked, especially when I was in my 30s and craving to have children. Sure I could have had kids by myself, but I didn't want that. I had many dysfunctional relationships during that 9 years. I cried a lot trying to figure out why I didn't have a soulmate. I had to touch the hot stove many times to realize it hurt. There are many things in life which are disappointing. We can look back at the disappointment, or we can see how it made us better. It does take time to see past disapointment when the hurt is new. I did find the love of my life, and we celebrated our 4th anniversary last month. It was worth the wait.

My husband loves his Mac for all of his studio work. He went to the NAB conference this past week in Las Vegas, and he was thrilled to find out if he installed Windows XP on it, he could run his Sound Forge stuff. Now he can do it all from his Mac!!

You said it well here. I spent a lot of time crying during praise and worship at church right after I left TWI. I felt weird and stiff, but I so wanted to surrender myself. This kind of music helped me to loosen up in my Christian life. I'm with Ex10 on this. It is refreshing to see network television putting this kind of thing on TV. And I completely disagree that it resembled anything like Singing Ladies.

Well, that's where the brainwashing comes in. I remember truly believing that there was no other ministry than TWI, and that all other religion out there was evil and devilish. I wasn't entrenched in TWI as much as these ladies are. They've been brought up from birth. The lady from Colorado City who was in my NEO class did not talk to anyone while she was there. She didn't even look at you when she was in the restroom at the same time.

Here's what I gather from Oprah and Eckhart Tolle's class. There's a way to experience a spiritual awakening in your life by realizing some of your thought processes which have been dictated by society for many years. I equate this class to evolvement of mankind. For instance, in our grandparents' day, it was acceptable for a man to beat his wife and children and it was acceptable. Nobody got involved in anyone else's life. The abuse was secret in society. Today, there is a different thought in society. People do get involved in others' lives when they see abuse and destruction happening. Oprah can't be all bad. She isn't insisting her "followers" give 20% of their earnings. If people choose to buy something she is marketing, it is totally up to them. Oprah has used her money for good. She's helped people all over the world. She's opened up an all girls school in Africa where girls are not considered privileged enough to have schooling. She help a lot of Hurricane Katrina survivors get back on their feet. She's a doer. I love that about her. That doesn't mean I agree with everything she's about.

Yes, there are a lot on welfare. But several women work jobs. I've seen them in our bulding for New Employee Orientation. I was in NEO with one of them, and she was at least 7 months pregnant. There are job openings for a few positions up there which usually get filled by these people. I don't think there are many county positions which can be filled. There are quite a few other communities fairly close which provide avenues for work such as St. George, Utah (which is a pretty good thriving community). While the working wives are at work, the other wives take care of their children. There are a lot of business up there, and passers by may stop and eat. Those businesses are on the ouskirts of their townto keep the "wicked" (anyone not in their group), from coming in to the actual community.

Here's the link to the thread she started when she came back: Lookin' for Ole Greasers

If you are talking about AudiosMiCorizon, her new name is Ophelia. She came in a few times, but we haven't seen her since. She said she lost her husband. I hope she is doing well.

Call me a LeftCoaster. I feel way safer in earthquake country than I ever did in Tornado country. The frequency of earthquakes is so little or go without many noticing. When I lived in Tornado Country, it was scarey for me every night in the spring and summer when there were thunder storms with tornadic possibilities.

I some good ideas why the stuff happens. My opinions and observations are based on why it has continued to go on in Colorado City. The group in Texas is a little different because they don't have the freedoms of their own town like they do in Arizona. This group has existed for over 100 years. The last time they experienced raids was in the 50s. Raids in the 50s were for the purpose of incarcerating those in plural marriages. I'm sure there have always been teenage girls who have been married off. Today, I don't believe those who want to be involved in polygamist marriage should be considered criminals as long as the marriage is only of consenting adults who have the ability to leave the marriage if they wish to do so. Today, the issue of teenage girls being married and impregnated are the major issues, and rightfully so. However, the major influence of law enforcement is in their own city by their own people. Sure, the County Sheriff has jurisdiction there, but they didn't even have a lookout station up in that area until a few years ago. As far as I know, there isn't a whole lot of services by the Sheriff up there. That part of Arizona is separated from the rest of the state because of the Grand Canyon. For any county services to get to that area, they have to travel through Las Vegas, and the southwest corner of Utah before they get there. It is 265 miles away. The County Maager (who is a nazi-like retired Navy Captain) screams about satellite offices which are less than an hour away and how he would like to shut them down to get rid of the added expense. I can imagine there will still not be many services available to what we call the Strip Area (the strip above the Grand Canyon). When our office goes up to Colorado City to do annual canvassing and verifying building permits, we have one man from the group who takes them around to each house. It's all orchestrated because they would NEVER allow us to just come in and do their work like the majority of taxpayers would. We work with them so we can get our job done. As time has gone by, the County Seat, Kingman, has been filled with the good-ole-boy politicianis s who could give a rat's behind about areas like Colorado City. Colorado City is fine with that. Leave them alone and let them do what they want, and everyone can live the way they want to. All of the local governments have allowed them to be. There hasnt' been any checking of what goes on, and nobody outside has cared about teens because they probably didn't think about it until one woman (Fora Jessup) got herself out and started going to the media to tell her story and has helped several girls and women escape. Nobody in that environment knows anything different unless they are shown. Most of the people in that group have hardly even been outside the walls of their city. They don't know how life is outside. They just live they way they know. Then when a few who do find out what it's like outside start talking or acting in an unacceptable manner, they are ousted. Excommunication for these people is extremely hard because they've been kicked out of the only life they knew. They have a lot more change in their lives than those of us from our little cult. They are taught the outside world is "wicked". It's far different than fellowshipping with unbelievers when you are involved in TWI. They don't welcome outsiders to their church. They don't witness. There are girls who left who were on Dr. Phil who didn't even know who the President of the US was. They are taught only enough skills to learn to function in their own life-style. For women, that would be cooking, cleaning, childrearing. For men, it could be something better, but only if it is useful in their group. They don't want TV, but the upper echelon does have cell phones and computers. I'm sure the upper echelon have a different life-style than the average person there. The children are given very little education. There is a school district up there. It was originally ran by those in Colorado City adn few others outside, like Centennial Park (another polygamist group). The school superintendent was being investigated because there was suspicion that he was funneling tax payer dollars for the school district to Warren Jeffs, their prophet. The school district was taken over by the state, and Colorado City took their all of their kids out to home school them. Most girls never make it through high school because they are married off and impregnated. Most boys don't because they need to do work in the compound. A lot of boys were kicked out because they made too much competition for the older men to acquire more wives. Thus, there is another set of victims called "The Lost Boys". It's sad and complicated, and I've only told a small amount. But there is a serious problem, and it takes goverment who actually cares to do something. Unfortunately Mohave County has not cared enough to rectify a lot of situations it should have. They really need to have their own county up there for starters. There needs to be a force bigger than the Colorado City police in order to get things changed up there.

I just want to clarify it isn't LDS who control this group. It's FLDS (the fundamentalists who believe they still believe in the original doctrine from Joseph Smith).

(((((Dot))))) It's still new for you, the wound is still fresh. You will learn from your marriage and divorce. You can be even stronger. If you use this time to look within, figure out what YOU want and go for it without compromise, you will be a fulfilled person. If you learn to love yourself and your life without a man, it will be more meaningful when you actually do get in to another relationship. I highly suggest to give it time. You will know when you are ready. Dont' make emtional decisions about love in the next year, and you will save yourself a lot of additional heartache. Love, Someone who's been there