Ham

It was another scam, in my opinion. They pay to be "selected", or "picked", to be advertised- on TV! Kind of like a letter I got, boy oh boy, I was "selected" to make hundreds of thousands of dollars ("potenially" in fine print).. just have to send in $29.95, money order or credit card, to get the priviledge of being "selected".. Finally, a victim of a scam, just like themselves..

Sadly, I think the MOST twisted, are those who carry the evil doctrine and practice they learned in TWI, and try to jam it down people's throats. Sure- may as well go start your own ministry of misery.. NOTE: I am NOT labelling all offshoots as such. But they just adore the tough love concept. If people disagree, beat them like h*ll with a few more bible verses.. DEMAND loyalty. DEMAND "old line grads" to tow the line. That's twisted. Should've figured it out- it didn't work in TWI. What makes the individuals think it will work outside of TWI? I think people still in should have the "priviledge" to read this stuff. Look what kind of toad "they" are going to turn YOU into, if you stay around long enough. I've posted a lot of what I was turned into. And a lot wasn't very pretty..

I'll think about it, though some others here may have better suggestions.. "Because they are a bunch of filthy, thieving scumbags" probably wouldn't go over very well..

Personally, I would prefer this to: "Well, I'm just so blessed today. I'm just so blessed that I'm blessed, and you should be blessed that you're blessed too. And thankful. And willing to tell the whole world that you are blessed.." Enough already.. "Well then, what blessed you?" "Nothing in particular". Good grief. Turn me into a pillar of salt.. Honestly though Allan. You don't have to obey me, or sit and listen to my ranting. We are not married to each other, really. :P-->

Allan, I think the whole point is, nobody really gets over it.. you may suggest you are, and I would disagree. I may make up for lost time, finally get on track with my true calling, get smarter, love myself and others, and start making right decisions.. But no, I am not "over it". Can't forget it, either. Its part of who I am. The crap I endured, the crap I gave out too- effects my character. Effects the way I think about things.. Maybe not as much today as five or six years ago, but its still there. And it still hurts sometimes. Not nearly like it did though.. Stuff I did twenty years ago STILL bothers me. Ludicrous crap I saw people do twenty years ago still disturbs me. Some of it I am only recently figuring out how wrong it was. Sometime I wake up in the night, and remember one more mean, hateful, but "biblical" thing I pulled off on somebody.. but this is far far less frequent now. If it was wrong, it SHOULD bother a person. I am actually getting a life, here. At least now. I'm finally doing what I should have done over twenty years ago. At first I almost kicked myself for being so stupid.. finishing the task up so much later in life, but I figured that I can't change that. I just pray I can live long enough to do it.

I keep looking for one of those darn things, just can't find it. Probably wouldn't do a heck of a lot of good, anyway..

Yep. Of course, it wasn't anything new.. but it was claimed as such. What the wascal said was exactly what EWB published almost a century before, in Witness of the Stars. New light? Nonsense. Anybody who is anybody in the Christian world knows this stuff, or at least about it.

Didn't want to derail the "false prophet" thread- but it got me thinking.. what WAS the ministry of der vey? Well.. "They" claimed to be a healing ministry.. for the life of me, I never saw any real ground shaking healings to speak of.. I prayed for a guy who had a hangover once, and he felt like a spring chicken.. but that's about it.. Where were the healings (plural) of "Biblical Proportion"?? OK. Let that one slide for a while.. "They" claimed der vey was a teaching ministry. Of course, what was taught was "new light". "New light" was said to be brought by an- Apostle. New light? "Four crucified" "dead are dead", "God's really a nice guy.." ? You've GOT to be kidding.. Even loy tried that one with the riddle of the sphinx. New light- ha. A "research" ministry? Perhaps once, long, long ago- and it wasn't vic that was doing the honest research. No research in over twenty years, unless you count the debt thing.. I submit- it is, and was even then close to being, a Nothing ministry.

Can't lay that at this one con man's feet.. I didn't see a stinking one.. Sure CLAIMED they could produce them though. Does that count?

"Tows R Us"

Then I'd consider the effect of elemental iron on said remaining oxygen.. elemental iron IS what most people get in their breakfast cereals. How much of the oxygen is used up oxidizing said iron? Plus other elemental metals? Plus the effect of antacids, or calcium supplements, or even calcium carbonate in the food itself. This will react with the said acid in the stomach. Not only do they produce more saline, this also produces CO2. A gas, which I will get out on a limb and suggest that possibly is far more soluble in water than oxygen- I'll have to check the Big Book to verify it though- but in any event, combined with the prolonged mixing- it likewise would displace much of the precious oxygen. Even with this, we haven't even begun to talk about what happens to what may be left, to be subjected to assault by electrolytes and crap in the blood plasma..

A little more on the burp "theory".. A physics or chemistry degree would help you understand this.. Equation 20, about 3/4 down the page, would suggest to me that the (at least eventually) dissolved salts in the digestive tract would indeed force much of the oxygen, or any other gas, for that matter, out of solution. Hence, "burp". My low estimate is not even taking into consideration the similar effects that rather ionic substance in solution, such as the fairly strong hydrochloric acid, would contribute. Point is: most of the oxygen in the water doesn't stand a chance. But this is just a cursory assessment- something to think about, anyway..

There may indeed be more scientific backing to the burp theory than meets the eye.

But it makes me wonder, what did the Penta people find, when they took said water, tossed in 0.10 molar hydrochloric acid, salt, pepsin, and all kinds of other junk, gently heated it to 36.67 C (or 309.82 K for you darn purists..) and stirred vigorously?

Good point.. maybe that's why it failed to produce the results that perhaps it should have had.. Maybe once the old vicster slapped his greasy name on it, somehow it all changed.. Poisoned food is still food, I guess.. But it makes more and more sense to me all the time. With his advanced class, the product seemed to "work"- but taking on spiritualism, devil worship, other "preversions", to me, is kind of like preaching to the choir. Easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Practically, though, he puts a guy in charge of CHILDREN'S ACTIVITIES- read the child abuse thread..said guy beats kids with a closed fist? SADISTIC, angry SOB- "possessed" by vics definition. You tell me. "his" COPY of the product failed to function, in his own back yard. Somehow, in the copy process, I think a lot of true intent and any power was lost, assuming it was there to begin with.

Maybe this is a good question to ask at your next One True Household Fellowship.. :D-->

Yep. Some things can't be avoided, I guess.. When I went to see my brother in NJ, we took the train into New York City. It was packed, but I was suprised how smoothly things really ran. People were actually kind of friendly. I don't know what it is like at night though.. But I don't think you've really lived, until you experience a cab ride through NY during rush hour..

At least one person told me I'm "nuts" for it, but when I go anywhere, I try to avoid the big roads.. "Whadya going THAT way for, anymore? NOBODY goes that way.." "that's the whole point.."

Well... What would REALLY be funny.. They'd pony up another couple hundred bucks, get settled in at the bar, and lo an behold, they'd find themselves being served- Old vics 1967 film PFAL class. Wouldn't suprise me. That'll teach em for getting throughly and thoroughly mixed up.. What does suprise me, is that the leadership is not required to "supervise" you as you put all of your old wineskins through the shredder, marking on a checklist what goes to the dump.. including all old letters, and other correspondance. Maybe I shouldn't give them ideas..

Well, if it detours one person's path from TWI, perhaps.. But, here is the double-standard again. Good for us commoners to get reamed a new one for reading "throroughly"- but apparently too good for "da teacher" being confronted (alas, posthumously) for being a lying, thieving scumbag.. If the shoe fits, I say we go down next to the fountain, do a little digging, and put it on. I think it will fit. Sadly, I found out that it fit, long after he was dead and buried. It wasn't his product.

I dunno. Seems any self-serving, hell bound glory hound seems to beg for this kind of attention.. Why can't both statements be equally true? With a lot of thought, I can't think of a whole heck of a lot that deserves praise.. Here we are discussing a thieving, lying, adulterous, scumbag- really bothers me how well the upper ups hid this crap for years.. and loy, he made vic look like a piker.. not as subtly, perhaps. But to say "da devil made him do it" really whitewashes a lot of the issue, in my opinion. Releases the old poop from a lot of accountability. He CHOSE to do so.

I guess that way, if he had to "bury" a few mistakes, he could squirm out of it. "I NEVER told you that I could.."

My, the angry Mr. Smilies are actually glowing in the dark..

Pretty interesting Jim. But in all fairness, maybe we should look at The Other Side of the Story..

He did, INDIRECTLY, and by implication. Really. He claimed the ministry he founded was, among other things, a healing ministry. Might as well have said, "I have a healing ministry". But no- not that bold, I guess..