T-Bone

yeah, VP's one claim to "fame" may be PFAL in the minds of devoted fans; (PFAL = a hodge podge of material he stole from several sources and he added a hookie-pook magical/pontificating twist to boot) - but in my heart his signature work that overshadows even that is the complete screw-job (figuratively & literally) he did to the corps and staff. ...PFAL was not dynamic. "dynamic" means energetic, capable of action and/or change, or forceful....rather PFAL was "static" meaning stationary or fixed. in other words you got nowhere with it! and God help the person who questioned anything in PFAL..... at PFAL 77 someone asked if that would replace the original PFAL class; the host on stage answered that by saying "did Paul need to re-write Ephesians?" yup - the mindset of TWI put PFAL on par with Scripture! in contrast the English Standard Version of Hebrews 4:12 reads "For the word of God is living and active..." since i left TWI i think i have experienced more healing mentally, emotionally, socially, and even financially from reading the Bible and trying to live by its simple truths.

yeah, i can see that... now i'll tell you who i identify with....Chris Williams is one of the writers for MythBusters credited with over 60 episodes...now look to the left of Chris - yeah, see that pudgy old fart handing Chris a Caramel Macchiato from Starbucks...uh huh - that's me.

i'd suggest Excathedra...and i don't disagree with the Grease Spotters you've named...but i'd also add Word Wolf - he is one incisive wolf.

Howdy D, i hear yah and sometimes feel the same way. sometimes i feel there's mistakes i've made and hurtful things i've experienced that i'll never get over. but like you've said life goes on. so one way or another i've got to get going too. sometimes i look at what my naivete cost me in terms of financial loss, relationships lost, the prime years of my youth lost, career losses, etc. and it makes me sick! and then sometimes i look at that cost as the tuition i paid to learn - and i mean really learn some valuable life lessons. the importance of critical thinking,the fulfillment of simply trying to be a good husband and father, treating others like i want to be treated, trying to be smart with my money & resources, etc. yeah i bought into TWI's myths of how i could have whatever i believed for, attain super-spiritual savvy, bend Bibles in my bare hands, and be an apostle to everyone i met. one time i had a branch leader blow smoke up my azz by telling me he could see me as president of TWI. and the really dumb thing is - - - i actually wanted to believe him. A great thing i've realized is the advantage of talking with others - whether here at Grease Spot...or with family and friends; talk things out; truly express what we feel... we don't have to succumb to the myth entrenched atmosphere of TWI and follow the herd.

The greatest myth in TWI world is that VP was an honest man. The greatest myth-busters of TWI world is Grease Spot Cafe.

what if they were a Cylon and didn't know it? a Battlestar Galactica fan who is a Cylon but doesn't know it. oh that's frackked up!

Interesting thread…and I'm a little embarrassed to say I was hard pressed to identify the first red flag in my TWI experience – probably because it seems like I swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker - right off the bat! But in retrospect I think I can identify something instrumental in putting me in a "coma" for so many years – oblivious to any red flags – which I will mention further down. I didn't come out of the "coma" until I was in the Family Corps when all the "Passing of the Patriarch" commotion became like a shock-induced-consciousness thing; then red flags began popping up all over my TWI timeline – past and present (present = while still in TWI, in residence). Perhaps one huge red flag was a recurring thought that the reason TWI appeared to be coming apart at the seams was because it was based on a man - who is now dead. Holy cow! you mean VP is not God?! Why there ought to be a book. Ok – so to answer your question – I first noticed red flags when I was in the corps. The rest of my post is just my typical rant. == == == == In light of the article by Horowitz that Skyrider referenced – I think the first of the criteria defining a cult – behavior control - really zings me to the bone! I don't know – was something subliminally planted in my head by PFAL so that I would be the one to alter my behavior – to become malleable – easy for someone to control. Maybe it's akin to software viruses. PFAL infects your "processor". I've heard in the biological world viruses do not reproduce. They get inside the host cell and mix with the cell's genetic instructions – so now its new instruction is basically "make more of me" (the virus – yikes!). It's a freakin' circle! A damn self-devouring circle of nonsense. All your questions will be answered in PFAL. Oh they weren't – then take PFAL again. Take the advanced class on PFAL, then work the PFAL material yourself…ad infinitum…like the answer Ralphie decrypted from the secret decoder ring "Take more PFAL". My life was stuck inside a PFAL commercial for 12 years. Anyway… back to rendering someone unconsciousness…It was an act of self-betrayal that helped put me in a comatose state. Shortly after I took PFAL I wanted to maintain this feeling of "spiritual re-birth" or cult high. Out with my old man ways! So I took all my sketch books from art school, poems and songs I had written and hauled them off to a dumpster behind some restaurant at Green Acres Shopping Mall . After I turned off all my friends who got tired of listening to how PFAL changed my life – I kept to just seeing people in TWI. Anything TWI promoted that promised growth sounded good to me. So I decided to go WOW. To lighten up for the trip and to release more "old man fetters" I gave my customized Fender Jazz Bass and Fender Amp to a local believer. I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults". ...maybe add don't give away your customized bass ...don't get rid of anything you've created ....don't cut off true friends ...don't keep adding to this list...oops ok, i'll stop...

an obliterated translation of your secret quote in light of "VP and Me": The secret of his suck-cessor is the indecency of his moves == == == == and i love your like a fart in the dark...he was gone line - it has potential for..... LCM's rewrite of a Springsteen song (Dancing in the Dark.....uhm...i would like to apologize in advance to Tonto and of course Bruce) : You can't say I'm fired not really fired – got a pension plan shyster for hire for farting in the dark – I'm your man

The Way Corps’ success rate was abysmal. Their pronouncements of the spiritual status of a situation were totally self-serving. I remember some folks complaining about the unethical business practices of our branch leader. His response: teachings on how murmuring was sinful and that devil spirits are turning people against him. Jump forward to being in the Family Corps – the Passing of the Patriarch is read while the wife and I are in residence; we’re not real sure what’s being done to straighten things out – but we’re often reminded that we’re really under fire from devil spirits now…. yeah, no $hi+ Sherlock and for some reason they look a lot like TWI’s top leadership! I think this was the beginning of a major doubt growing in my mind “if this ministry has more of the rightly divided word than anyone else then why is there all this fighting and confusion?” And then there’s all the tough-talk from our corps as to how to persevere in this spiritual fight once we leave Rome City “yup, we’re gonna run PFAL back to back.” Oh yeah, I forgot about the magic bullet for every spiritual problem. Then we’re on assignment out in the field. Away from the entanglements of corps residence, my mind seems to be festering with more questions and doubts. I buy a few commentaries at an estate sale down the block from our home. Check out some books on theology at the library, look into vp’s credentials and start dialoging with other corps in my state who have some issues with TWI too. I start sharing some of my concerns with our corps via letters. The feedback we get implies we are deceived by devil spirits. And I mean it’s unanimous. So to re-phrase my opening statement for those who dive deep into the spirituality of the spirited bull$hi+Uality: The Way Corps is to an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness what Walter White is to methamphetamine. They both made money by peddling their $hi+ to suckers. But from what I’ve read though it seems methamphetamine in low doses will actually increase alertness, concentration and energy.

:biglaugh:/> Waysider, that is so funny ! :biglaugh:/> you know they could boost sales using some fear tactics - i see the smoking chimney, so show the person without the rapture hatch getting sucked up the chimney - yikes! crispy christian!!! with the slogan "don't let this happen to you"

Hey Raf, I always enjoy reading your posts and still think a lot of you; I appreciate your thoughtfulness, how articulate you are, and how much you bring to Grease Spot. Thanks for sharing some of the details of your journey. For what it’s worth I think I fall into # 2 on the scale you referenced: “2. De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption he is there and has something to say to us. (aka, Your Average Theist)” …that being said I’m giving it one more week and if I don’t get some more answers I’m switching to Scientology. …my back up plan is to join the First Shrine of the Divine Sargent Phil Fish.

I forgot how addictive this place can be for me…I start reading in one thread and then get into another, then another…anyway… Skyrider's point about the straight up indoctrination is such a bitter pill to swallow for some. A little while after I left TWI I remember coming across a definition in a dictionary that just made me sit back and think; the definition was something along the lines of "to so indoctrinate a person as to affect a radical change in beliefs." This was next to the word "brainwash". Imagine the can of worms this opened up in my head back then – along with the shock and denial to follow. Looking up the word "brainwash" online, I found this on science how stuff works website – this also happens to be a perfect description of the steps in the Way Corps' indoctrination process: 1. Assault on Identity 2. Guilt 3. Self-betrayal 4. Breaking Point 5. Leniency 6. Compulsion to confess 7. Channeling of Guilt 8. Releasing of Guilt 9. Progress and harmony 10. Final confession and rebirth link to article on Science How Stuff Works website == == == == Word Wolf's description of tiers caught my attention too. A cross between the layers of a rotten onion and a pyramid scheme come to mind. Maybe that's why there was a lot of crying at corps graduation. I think Groucho's comment on the program being sociopathic in nature is insightful. Sometimes to understand something I have to do a backwards-engineering-thing. So I ask – how do you make an effective Way Corps person? 1. Sedate the conscience, disorient the moral compass 2. Confine the intellect, discourage thinking and questioning 3. Encourage blind loyalty [as Skyrider mentioned above]

What a coincidence. I check in on Grease Spot periodically and happened to read your post. The other day I was trying to describe the Way Corps program to my friend and referred to the movie Oblivion to give him a sense of the ideal Way Corps person. IMDB's brief summary of Oblivion is a veteran assigned to extract Earth's remaining resources begins to question what he knows about his mission and himself.... Spoiler Alert Ahead! As the movie progresses we come to find out Tech 49 Jack Harper [the Tom Cruise character] is one of the many clones made by the enemy to maintain the drones that monitor/protect the aliens' resource sucking machines. The Way Corps program is similar to a cloning process – by using the parent genetic material of VP [his words & works aka PFAL ad infinitum] a participant's belief system "grows" – or rather morphs into a replica of VP's mindset. And like the movie Oblivion the Way Corps is tasked with maintaining the drones of PFAL machines [as far back as Beta!] so TWI can continue to suck everyone's resources.

good one Thomas!...... ......which reminds me of an old episode.... ~ ~ Mr. Phelps has a little opportunity while cueing the tape for session 5 of PFAL

very thoughtful post, Skyrider - thanks! flip flopping "mission creep" might work another way too - - - creep mission = the goal of a repulsive cult leader

don't know about that - but here's the words to the Allman Brothers' "Whipping Post": I've been run down I've been lied to And I don't know why ... I let that mean woman make me a fool She took all my money ... wrecked my new car Now she's with one of my good time buddies ... they're drinkin' in some cross town bar Sometimes I feel Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin' My friends tell me ... that I've been such a fool And I have to stand by and take it baby ... all for lovin' you I drown myself in sorrow ... as I look at what you've done But nothin' seems to change ... the bad times stay the same ... and I can't run Sometimes I feel Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin' Sometimes I feel Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin' ~ ~ man, i love that tune - we'd play that in the first band i played with....we'd jam for hours.....till i thought my fingers would fall off - it was like my bass was a whipping post....

Hi OperaBuff, i like the layout of the Note Taker's Bible - i think that's perfect for study bugs to make notes in the Bible [or as my son used to say when he'd see my Bible notes he called them "writing on purpose" - i don't know why he called them that unless maybe he asked me one time why i wrote in THE HOLY BIBLE and that's what he got out of my answer]. ...like i said in my post - i don't make many notes in the various Bibles i have - and i think it's just that i've found a way that works best for me. if i used only one Bible i'd probably would cram it full of notes - and it would be The Note Taker's Bible for sure! and i'm not big on using Bible software stuff either - partly due to me being old school [not THE OldSkool of Grease Spot fame] and i'm so used to finding an old note or something underlined in a book i have - and can usually remember where to find it than going thru a software thing of trying to remember a key word or something - well, first have to turn the computer on....or the software just locked up....or some technical glitch. ...i do use Bible software some - [having various translations, language tools, and commentaries on them] and will also draft Word documents i draft on specific Bible studies [yes i do use a computer for that - so i can revise or update the study - but i always print them out and will first make revision notes in pencil on the printout - until i have enough updates to justify revising the Word doc and printing it again. ~ ~ another thing that i do which "takes the place of the absent Bible note" is draft one page docs for various purposes. i print these out and will tuck them in the front of the Bible by my night stand. This portability feature allows me to transfer them to whatever Bible i happen to be using. These one page docs are under frequent revision and cover things like: short and long term goals or priorities critical thinking favorite passages some interpretation principles of the Bible along with favorite topics some key chapters of the Bible one sheet i titled "A Day's Journey" - which is a compilation of statements about my faith, mission statements [both personal and career-wise], attitudes & habits that are important to me - this sheet was inspired by something i read in Covey's book "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" one sheet i titled "Reflective Thinking" - which is at present a series of 10 questions i ask myself - designed for either a quiet moment in the morning or evening to help me focus my day or to evaluate things at the end of my day ~ ~ ....i don't refer to these sheets on a consistent basis....i just have them there to give me a jump start sometimes if i am dwelling on a problem or issue, looking for something to study at our family Bible fellowship.....or if i'm bored, doing nothing and there's nothing good on TV

being a movie fan, sometimes i get into these over-produced daydreams about something that really packed a wallop to my brain.....so i'm thinking of a movie idea.....maybe along the lines of a movie within a movie or something.... title of the movie is "Hello Grease Spot...or not" brief summary: An avante garde screenplay writer comes up with a novel approach to making a story. He wants half the screenplay to be composed of the actual impromptu response by some of the actors toward certain cliches spoken by others. The writer drafts a scripted dialog for only half the cast - made up of jargon, buzz words, cliches, slogans, and catch phrases used by a certain religious group . The "script" for the improvising actors has no written dialog - only a short directive to guide them in what to say - the directive is "improvise from the heart". A key scene in the movie is when the writer is trying to pitch his movie to a producer and says "it's a story about catch phrases and the missed point of no return." ~ ~ i agree with you Geisha - i really appreciate what WordWolf brings to Grease Spot! Besides his Christian perspective - i think another quality his posts have is rock solid logic....i know i have a flair for being long-winded, going all over the map, hyper-critical and sarcastic......well, that's enough about my long suites - it's bad form to toot your own horn - but i always like WordWolf's approach in a discussion - it seems always level-headed, stays on point, and that there's been a lot of thought put into it.

when planning for the next catastrophe - don't forget your 2 Alarm chili kit

it depends on how you look at it. if you assume TWI's interpretation of the Bible is 100% correct - that what they "officially" say and do is THE Christian standard i can understand why you said what you did. spend some time just reading threads in not only the By The Way forum but also in the Doctrinal forum - i think you'll find many folks here didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater - but rather have actually given a lot of thought to just about every doctrinal, practical and social aspect of TWI - analyzing many things to the nth degree - probably rivaling any CSI team. and please don't take offense at this - but that all-or-nothing thinking is a typical TWI mindset....that's one of the many pieces of mental baggage i had to deal with for awhile after i left. don't worry you'll get over it - as you learn to enjoy this freedom to think .....i'm still a Christian - i was a Christian long before i joined TWI.....and since i've left i've passionately pursued so many fields of study that i feel have deepened my faith and broadened my perspective on life. ~ ~ in my opinion, the most insidious factor of TWI was the attitude they instilled in followers - not only by their teachings but in programs, functions - in their very culture. i believe they did set a new standard for a counterfeit Christianity based on hypocrisy, legalism, and "spiritual" elitism [aka snobbery]......alright so i admit i tripped out of one of the finest bunch of hypocritical legalistic snobs. ~ ~ you're right - this isn't a Christian site - it has never indicated that is was.....this is a forum for folks who left a counterfeit Christian "site" called The Way International - here folks tell the other side of the story.

yeah - i do see your point and get where you're coming from - and i have no problem with your conclusions - and would tend to agree with you if the scope of our discussion was limited to a localized disaster.....the thinking behind my post was much broader in scope - a worldwide disaster....imho, folks frame of mind in both scenarios might be quite different in some respects - which would affect their decision-making. i imagine a lot of folks in New Orleans were waiting for the government to send in help - they kept waiting and waiting.... if someone is stuck by the side of the road of a busy highway - they have their hood up - they usually assume someone will come by to help - or call the police , wrecker or someone on their cell....they may not have the tools, know how or ambition to fix it themselves. but what if they were stuck out on a remote trail in the middle of nowhere - no phone and no one knew they were there [didn't tell anyone where they were going]. their frame of mind might be different - like "i'm it. no one is going to rescue me. it's sink or swim. i'm on my own." that's what i was thinking in my post - you never know how one might react in a situation like that. in an end-of-the-world scenario - gone are the services and support that people take for granted....maybe no police, no military, no doctors, no FEMA, no governor or president to decare a state of emergency and calls in the calvary....nothing.....and so it may not dawn on folks right away - but at some point most folks will realize they're on their own.....never know how someone may react.....like the movie based on the true story of the guy who cuts off his own arm to survive....i remember seeing a thing on TV about a doctor in the arctic - antarctic - somewhere like that - she had to do surgery on herself. ~~ so i'm not criticizing the good citizens of New Orleans or justifying the bad guys in any way - if i was in that situation don't know if i'd roll over and cower before the bad guys or what i'd do really....i think about other situations sometimes - and i talk about stuff like this with folks at work regarding worst case scenarios.....i own a few guns and love to target shoot and hunt.....i can not even imagine me taking another person's life though.....don't think i could be a policeman or a soldier for that matter.......but i could see myself defending my family if some crazy dude come crashing through our front door wielding a knife and threatening to hurt my family. i don't think i'd have a second thought - i'd blow the dude away with several rounds of .40 caliber jacketed hollow points to the head.....

some of these posts got me thinking about Stephen King's novel "The Stand" - it's a post-apocalyptic story about the breakdown of society. The survivors of a biological weapon accidentally unleashed gravitate toward one of two camps - good or evil. I enjoyed the book much more than the TV miniseries - although they did a pretty good job of it.....anyway, i've never been in the military nor experienced catastrophic destruction and so not sure how i'd react in a life and death situation. my take on human nature is that neighbors [whether in the city or out in the country] will tend to band together out of necessity in a worst case scenario - whether for support, self-protection or what have you - since we are social creatures and obviously there's strength in numbers. Mstar got me thinking about how a worst case scenario might play out - in our end-of-the-world discussion. i do believe folks in rural areas and very small towns will fare a lot better than city dwellers - just because city life infrastructure is so interdependent. resources, food, supplies, goods, many services, energy/fuels, etc. are piped in, shipped in, brought in - folks get so use to this catered lifestyle - i know it's citified me. you just kinda forget what it's like to fend for yourself ....to be self-reliant.....yeah, i'm a technician and pride myself on being able to figure out how something works or fix something if given enough time and have access to tools....power tools mostly and probably a laptop or two for running diagnostics and reprogramming....and shoot, tech support is only a phone call or website away. and i think as a society America tends to be wasteful. i once worked with a tech who grew up in Mexico. i was always amazed at how he'd fix something with parts cannibalized from some old piece of equipment we had sitting in the corner gathering dust. i even told him that as a compliment - he said where he came from they did not have the luxury of ordering a whole new system or could even afford to buy a replacement part - so most folks he knew just learned how to make do with what they had.

Are you a fundamentalist or something - you interpreted my post literally ! See class, the integrity of T-Bone is always at steak. but hey, you're welcome here anytime Twinky - you know that - we'd love to have you visit.......just make sure you bring your own share of MREs, drinking water, ammo and of course, Twinkies - as in the snack NOT clones.

so maybe we should start memorizing all the rules from Zombieland now......rule # 32: enjoy the little things......note to self: start hoarding Twinkies.

i agree....but the first time i read your post i misunderstood the part about "Todays issue might be preparing for the end of the world, but what will next months be?" - i actually thought "well, if the end of the world does happen why even worry about next month?" ~ ~ after 9/11 happened i started to take emergency preparedness a little more seriously....for weeks after 9/11 i'd get a thought like this is the beginning of the end...and nowadays besides praying for Japan and feeling so bad for all that's happened to them - every once and awhile i get back into the is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end mode. ~ ~ realistically though - i don't get caught up in the emergency preparedness frenzy - cuz i don't have the funds or facility to pull it off..... being a technician, once and awhile i've gotten involved in a setting up or maintaining emergency back up sites, emergency food and supplies, emergency generators, etc. i'm certainly no expert on the subject - but have garnered just enough info to focus my thinking toward something i can wrap my mind around.....so an end of the world scenario i don't even address. some folks get into stockpiling MREs, buckets of wheat, sealed 55 gallon blue drums of water treated with a water purification kit good for 5 years.....speak to the folks at Emergency Essentials http://beprepared.com/ and you'll find out MREs are good for 5 years if stored at something like 75 degrees. if it's warmer the shelf life of their nutrient value is shortened dramatically. so if you want to do it right - have a few pallets of MREs you've got to think about having a climate controlled storage site. ~ ~ i think more about a crisis on a small scale: like maybe an extended power outage in my city for say 2 weeks....i plan on getting a portable generator this year. i'm getting some more 5 gallon blue water jugs [blue keeps out light that helps some bacteria grow] to store water in garage. a 5 gallon jug is more manageable than a 55 gallon drum - and i'll water the grass or add water to the pool every month then refill them to keep water fresh. have a few water purification kits on hand and a desalination kit to use salt water out of our pool if needed. we always keep a well stocked pantry with canned goods. an extended power outage lasting 10 days happened to my parents who were living in Rochester, NY at the time. in the dead of winter. any refrigerated foods mom put out on inner porch of side door. for heat they still had gas and would sleep by the lit oven.