T-Bone

I agree with Waysider – this being a doctrinal forum it would be nice to see scriptural references along with sky4it’s comments which ideally should be a logical abstraction of the scriptural references. I’m no expert on this subject or for that matter any biblical subject – but I’ve read enough systematic theologies, bible studies [NOT by TWI authors, of course] and commentaries to say that post # 1 seems like a lot of speculation and especially rhetoric [empty words – being Christian-like in form [drawing upon some words and/or ideas of the Bible but having no substance – i.e. the lack of specific scriptural references]. Of course, that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.

Adding your answers of 15 1/2 & 42! [noting that’s not an ordinary 42 but a very excited double digit – due to its fun hitchhiking around the galaxy no doubt] yields a sum of 57.5! which is very interesting when divided by the 12 questions listed from the AiloPPQ we arrive at a quotient of 4.791667. Though this may escape the notice of the casual observer – one only needs to add the total number of posts of each person that has posted on this thread thus far to discover an amazing fact. T-Bone total posts 2543 + Waysider total posts 7431 + nyunknown total posts 442 = 10416…Well what’s so special about that you may ask.. . geez it only happens to be the model number of a very slick piece of equipment – and if you divide the cost of it $58.62 by the above quotient 4.791667 you’ll be pleased to find out that this dandy little muffler can be yours for 12.23 days [hmm just a little over the number of questions in the first post] of saving $4.7919667 per day in your piggy bank to go towards that purchase. My thanks to all posters for participating in our marketing research program.

I knew things were screwed up when I realized the inner turmoil I was experiencing during the Passing of the Patriarch aftermath – was a battle between reason and the TWI mindset. Although at the time, concepts like groupthink, cult mentality, and TWI mindset were unknown to me – I began identifying issues of this nature with some type of mental labeling to simply distinguish them as being suspect, possibly faulty and/or foreign to normalcy [whatever the heck that was in my slowly awakening mind]. Dialoging [via phone & mail] with fellow Corps while on our practicum year over the hot issues since Patriarch - I would invariably run into a brick wall whenever I questioned TWI doctrine or practice. Leaving aside the insinuations that I was influenced by devil spirits, tripped out or just plain possessed – it became evident that questioning vp or his doctrine & practices was perceived as a direct challenge to God Almighty & the Bible. I was used to thinking the Bible & PFAL as just about on par with each other – but was starting to have some SERIOUS doubts about this viewpoint. Needless to say, the more I ran into this wall, the more I was determined to distance myself from the whole mess until I could get a better idea of what's going on. There has been such a sense of satisfaction.. . validation.. . healing.. .strengthening in finding Grease Spot. Now I know that I know that I know I wasn't crazy for leaving TWI. Restating my point - what helped me to see that the TWI mindset screwed up one's thinking skills was in observing how folks dealt with post-Patriarch issues. Just about every suggestion or call to action seemed to be PFAL-centric. I remember one of my Corps buddies saying he's dealing with the problems by running back-to-back PFAL classes. That's all for now – thanks for letting me rant! Love & peace T-Bone

HOV lane for birdpooling.

You know things are screwed up when you think the class "Dealing with the Adversary" should be called "An Introduction to TWI." You know someone is screwed up when they think "VP said it; I believe it, that settles it." You know things are screwed up when you find out the literal translation according to usage of the Ways Corps motto is "It is written in PFAL." You know folks are screwed up when they renew their minds to how things are screwed up. You know you're screwed when you don't have the believing to unscrew the screwed.

You know things are screwed up when Wierwille says God made your wife sick because you didn't abundantly share her.

partial questionnaire from the Association (in lieu) of Profoundly Preposterrific Queries 1. In what famous "Gone with the Wind" movie did Clark Gable first appear in? 2. Describe in your own words the exact moment when you became aware you were another person. 3. What are the chances of lightning striking another bolt of lightning? Please list all documentation to validate your answer including graphs, pie charts, still shots and home-video footage. Word to the wise: clay animation, artist's conception or dramatization with hand puppets does not count. 4. Train A is leaving Chicago on the South Shore Line heading east toward South Bend Airport, Indiana. At the same time, train B is leaving South Bend Airport, Indiana on the same South Shore Line track, heading west toward Chicago, Illinois. Both trains are moving at 68 miles per hour. The engineer on board train A is wearing a black & red ball cap and is very familiar with high-speed rail systems especially the 0 Series Shinkansen high-speed train [built by Kawasaki Heavy Industries], and happens to be related to someone at KHI. The engineer on train B is the estranged twin brother of the engineer on train A. He is not wearing a ball cap because of a falling out with his brother over team sports exactly seven years ago to the day. At 68 seconds before these two trains collide – which one of the brothers would text the other first with his soon to be famous last words – and what would those words be? 5. Do you feel there is an intellectual obligation to inform your children that Sponge Bob's square pants are actually rectangular? 6. After coming out of a coma, the last thing you remember was sitting next to Mrs. Lincoln enjoying a theatrical production. Would you know who shot J.R.? 7. Do you ever feel like there is a band around your head? Bonus question: what tune are they playing? Extra Bonus question worth double the payout: Who were the 6th & 7th Beatle? 8. What is the price of envy in an economy based on the currency code RUB [number 643 of the ISO 4217 listing]? 9. ? 10. The level of radiation from a typical scan by Superman's X-ray vision is between 25 to 30 millirems – which is equivalent to a cervical spine series of X-rays. Backscatter scans such as those employed by some airports at security checkpoints produce a much lower level of radiation – only .005 to .009 millirems. Do you think the government should regulate Superman's use of his X-ray vision? 11. You happen to meet your twin from a parallel universe. Over a nice dinner (your treat using a 2-for-1 dinner coupon you just received in the mail), your twin informs you of yet another twin in a perpendicular universe. After ironing out a few interdimensional travel issues you finally get all three of you together. Your parallel universe twin starts talking about lunch and says to your perpendicular universe twin "Old money bags here bought me dinner last week so I think money bags should get to choose the restaurant." What is your gut-level feeling about mooching twins? 12. Let's say the average size lot in your neighborhood is one fourth of an acre. Now imagine for sixteen weeks in a row each one of the neighbors on your block wins the lotto, in sequential order starting from the lowest street address. However, you and your house are skipped over. In other words, you did not win a lotto. How much would you charge your neighbors to mow their yards?

Dang! It's always something at this joint. No matter what you say - somebody has got to pick it apart.

Congrats on the 3 years, Potato! And I agree on how much Grease Spot's "collective conscious" helps folks process stuff. Don't think I'll ever stop coming here as long as there's a friendly environment that welcomes one to say whatever they think. And to answer the question posed at the beginning of this thread "what are we doing here?" – Here's something [besides the therapeutic process mentioned above – which is the main draw for me]. I make it a point to warn others of TWI. Funny.. . I've read this thread before but didn't have anything to post – and then reading something in a book today inspired me to chime in with my two cents. But it's not so much the thing I read in the book as it is to trace my steps in getting to the point where I wanted to post it here – cuz it highlights what I'm doing here – soaking up the therapeutic effects of an ex-cult community & alerting others of one very screwed up organization. I think it's interesting how they tie together. Spectrum started a thread a little while back - in doctrinal on Ezekiel's vision. That got me reading the book of Ezekiel. I read it in a few different translations, then glanced at a few commentaries on key passages, then got into reading up on the Assyrian empire, checking out an Atlas of World History, checking out Old Testament surveys on Ezekiel – which brings me up to today, reading Ezekiel in my Life Application Study Bible: The New Living Translation, along with the Holman Bible Handbook chapter on Ezekiel. Two things in these books made me think of myself in relation to Grease Spot and also reflect on my former TWI years. The introductory notes of my study Bible mentions Ezekiel's preaching to demonstrate God's truth and predicting the approaching siege & destruction of Jerusalem; Ezekiel shows people are responsible for their own moral status and the inevitability of God's judgment against idolatry, rebellion & indifference. I think I could swap out the city Jerusalem for New Knoxville, Ohio. I like the point at the end of the chapter on Ezekiel in Holman Bible Handbook – under theological and ethical significance, page 447: "Christians can learn responsibility from Ezekiel. Like Ezekiel believers are to empathize with the hurt of those around them [3:15]. Like Ezekiel Christians are 'watchmen,' responsible for warning neighbors of sin's consequences [3:16-21]." What hit me today from my study – isn't some profound revelation or deep insight of the Bible. It was a simple, nice warm feeling of "hey, I'm glad I'm out of that mess [TWI] and for helpful folks I've met since then [Grease Spotters]". That's all it was – and then came a desire to share that feeling – for some reason I recalled this thread - so here I am – don't know if it's way off base with this discussion – but don't care. Hey, it's my therapy! Ok, so this is another one of my gosh-awful-long posts - but I just wanted to say that for me anyway, this healing process is so intricate and subtle and somehow tied together with what goes on at Grease Spot - even when I'm offline. Needless to say, you never know how much something someone says here will help you process. Everyone's got their own way of working things out – this is part of what helps me.. . well, anywho – that's what I'm doing here. Glad you asked. :)

yup

What's in a name? A lot really, when it comes to building a facade. I believe two of vp's specialties were the art of camouflage & deception. He subtly introduced sexual immorality through a certain class and in casual settings featuring his favorite porn video – all in the name of Christian Family & Sex. The shyster gets the title of "doctor" from a degree granting mill to lend legitimacy to his "ministry" – you know he wanted everyone to call him that cuz I heard enough protocol reminders in leaders meetings. I bet most folks thought even God called him "Dr. Wierwille." Of course he had other titles too – "our father in the Word".. . "the man of god for this day and time and hour".. .hmm how about "man of LoShonta" in homage to BG Leonard.

Considering the fact that vp plagiarized the material – AND - created an organization that's parasitic – thriving on sucking the time, energy & money from its followers, I think it should be called "Power for Abundant Mooching." Reflecting on what was the real benefit of the class – I think it was almost like some kind of an insidiously twisted Ponzi scheme. What kind of return did I see for investing my time, energy & money into vp's marketing enterprise? Encouragement to take the class again and again – which generated a hope that some day I'll master PFAL and actually experience the more abundant life he talked about. Seems to me like that's what kept a lot of people going – a collective consciousness of gimme-da-abundance-mentality following vp's carrot-on-a-stick ministry.

And now the way interNational BS forecast Our BS radar indicates the highly oppressive system is still hovering over New Knoxville, Ohio. A literal translation according to usage of the Farmer’s Almanac says to expect a severe crapstorm by Corps Night. Crapstorms of this magnitude have been known to render a significant percentage of the populace grease spots by midnight. These crapstorms should taper off into scattered patches of fog -some lasting for years - also known as fog years. Our chief meteorologist asked the pendant whether or not there will be any reign – noting several rounds of yes/no answers he’s forecasting a reign of terror on and off all week – depending on who has this present BS. This highly oppressive system is going to fabricate a rise in the temperature of believing starting out at 80 degrees Freakin’height on Tuesday.

deleted my duplicate post - musta been thinking the prophecy was doubled to show it was established :) note to moderator I PMed about an issue on this thread - I was able to edit my latter two posts using Fire Fox instead of my normal browser [internet Explorer]

Great clip, Geisha - reminds me of Corps week - thanks, that is so funny!

Oh don't even bring up Karate Kid!!! I think just about every time we'd have a movie night at Rome City - do you know what they'd show? Karate Kid. Yeah, you can talk all you want to about the stuff we missed being secluded in-residence.. . but doggonit - playing the same old movie over and over again can just about drive anyone stark raving mad.. mad I say! Just hearing someone say the title "Karate Kid" - - - something inside snaps! Slowly I turn, inch by inch - closer.. closer .. ripping the VHS tape out of the VCR with my bare hands - tearing it out of the case inch by magnetic tape inch "wax on, wax off.. movie on, movie off.. I can't take it any more.. I'll watch anything but that.. hell, I'll even watch Athletes of the Spirit as long as I can turn down the sound and make my own commentary."

Great points Twinky, chockfull, & Groucho.. Yeah, as far as learning anything of real substance my mind draws a blank from Family 11 residency. Somewhat odd isn’t it – they touted themselves as a biblical research and teaching ministry and there we were in their leadership training program – you’d think they’d have a bunch of academically appropriate classes to prepare you as a leader in such a ministry. Let’s see.. what “classes” or training do come to mind.. Christian Communications – that was a big deal – the power of the incident, “There I was.. .” “I know people in the Corps who haven’t moved the Word! Why? I’ll tell you why. It’s simply because they lack the ability to get things done.. .” oops, sorry – slipped back into a training session for a moment.. . Seems like it was geared to turning us all into salesmen. The research paper was a joke. lcm telling us not to try an re-invent the wheel – just stick to something basic from PFAL. Then there was the pajama party with vp showing his doggie porn video – under the pretext of preparing you for counseling – don’t want to be shocked by anything revealed in a counseling session.. . Funny, I have yet to run into a German Shepherd who wants redemption after years of service in the porn industry. Seems like a great system for the perpetuation of a parasitic organization. Another thing that chapped my hide. After I’m back out in the world, going to a professional resume company – there’s this little problem that pops up – wanting to list the Way College Indiana Campus on my resume, they check it out and find it’s NOT accredited! “You’re kidding!?! That’s not what they told me when I signed up!” Chockfull nailed it! It was just a big indoctrination process – making sure you learned how to consistently do things their way.. and that you’ve “mastered” PFAL… and uhm that you could renew your mind to anything.. become so spiritual that something is not sin to you.. . how to be the best Nazi-parent in your branch.. . hey, if you forget the training – just run back-to-back PFAL classes – that makes you a superstar in anyone’s book.

Imagining critical thinking skills as a muscle helps to keep me motivated to use them on a regular basis. Two practices I can think of right off the bat - that are important to maintaining/developing proficiency are: 1. considering/analyzing another viewpoint 2. becoming familiar with the subject Whether it's brainstorming to resolve a technical issue at work or just trying to understand something in a political debate – I find it helpful to examine the reasons/angles of a differing viewpoint and familiarizing myself with the essential details regarding the core elements of the subject at hand. I'm not necessarily looking for a hole in someone's logic or to win a debate – I guess it also winds up being another way of me getting familiar with the subject – by looking at it from another's perspective. Ya never know – they might have a valid point or two.. uhm I guess it's also good to have some humility & honesty as well, in these exercises.

Great posts penworks, taxicab & skyrider – just wanted to lump these altogether in one post since my mind has been using them as a springboard to reflect on my own experience in both entering & exiting TWI. At 21, I was definitely in a transition period – not only as a young man venturing out into the world but also looking for something more – perhaps the old “meaning of life” thing as skyrider put it. My life was in a state of flux – having dropped out of college [wondering how useful a bachelor of fine arts degree would be] – and invited to a twig by a new girlfriend. Those folks seemed to have everything I wanted – plus a seemingly sure-fire way of getting it quickly – PFAL. I’ll get back to this point in a minute. What struck me the most in the articulate posts of penworks & taxicab is the overwhelming assault TWI mounted to one’s intellect. It was a learned-helplessness – I lost confidence in my own thinking skills. This is perhaps one of the greatest obstacles to overcome whenever a TWI follower entertains the idea of leaving. That’s what kept me in. Anytime a situation or thought would challenge my TWI mindset – it was a lot easier to squelch the issue OF MY OWN VOLITION – than to analyze it as a normal person would without their [TWI’s] insidious restraints. I tend to think if I would have kept to my fearless sense of adventure in checking out new things and a desire to analyze how things work [which was my nature BEFORE TWI] I probably would have blown thru TWI rather quickly ..alas. Getting back to where I was going with my search or spiritual journey – whatever you want to call it – being a Christian ever since I can remember as a little boy and reflecting on my TWI days – I’m now of the opinion that one’s journey should be self-directed. I think that’s the way our minds were designed to develop and not atrophy. At least that’s the way I see it thru my “seasoned” faith or wherever I’m at now spiritually I don’t know - but reading Proverbs 2 after thinking over this thread, I was struck by the recommendation that WE are to search for wisdom, understanding, and discernment. I understand that to mean it should be a personal mission – a self-directed search, if you will. Looking for shortcuts & secret formulas compiled in a little orange PFAL book is sheer stupidity, wishful thinking & maybe just plain laziness. In TWI - I adopted their mission - my search was directed by their agenda and I analyzed things according to their standards. I think if I would have followed Proverbs’ advice it might have kept me out of TWI or at least shortened my stay there – going by Proverbs 2:10-12 For wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; discretion will guard you, understanding will watch over you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things.

Thanks Twinky for the link to the various images of Ezekiel's vision – I found Marcus Underwood's to be one of the most interesting of all [see picture below]. Spectrum, your thread got me to review my old study of some visions of God [besides here also getting into Isaiah 6, Revelation 4, 5, 11, & 15]. Ezekiel's frequent use of symbolism and fantastic imagery is quite challenging to interpreters – in my humble opinion – as far as what parts are to be taken figuratively and what is literal. My personal take on the vision in Ezekiel 1, is that it is predominantly symbolic, conveying the strong themes of God's holiness & sovereignty recurring throughout the book. The images that Ezekiel's words conjure up in my mind are definitely awesome – and actually a little frightening – Underwood's image probably comes close to how I imagine these fantastic creatures would appear. BUT - I tend to think along the lines that the images in this vision are merely representative of how things are in the spiritual realm that by far transcends this earthly domain. I'm thinking they don't literally look like the way Ezekiel describes them – I'm not saying he didn't see them this way – just thinking that since this was a vision – perhaps God was being imaginative in conveying certain ideas. Maybe it's a poor analogy – but as a technician, how I first learned to understand electronic circuits was by imagining water flowing through a pipe. I couldn't grasp the idea of an invisible force like electricity "moving" through a wire – but I easily understood the activity of water in motion. Thinking of electrical circuits as analagous to the way water flows through man-made conduits gave me something I could easily wrap my mind around. If you've ever read any of Hugh Ross' stuff [or for that matter stuff by Stephen Hawking, William Dembski, or Brian Greene] – you'll know what I mean by saying there's a lot more going on in our world than meets the eye – something that a number of theories like superstring try to address. It's fun to speculate about the fantastic incidents in the gospels that talk of what Jesus did in His new body or about the nature of the spiritual realm when using something like a superstring theory to explore the possibilities/properties/capabilities in all that. Not saying I understand all the technical stuff in these guys' books - it just gets me to thinking - if God created it all and interacts with it all at will - maybe miracles, supernatural acts, etc. are not as far-fetched as we think. I dunno.. maybe these living beings he saw actually look something like Underwood's interpretation.. my tendency leans more toward God giving mere mortals some hint about creatures with properties and capabilities far beyond our comprehension. Whatever they really look like, I'd probably faint at the sight of them – wouldn't even make it to the latter part of the vision to see the throne and glory of God. It did take the Spirit of God to set Ezekiel back up on his feet after all that [Ezekiel 2:2]. Some commentaries I've read, interpret the four faces of these incredible beings as symbolic: face of a man = intelligent, face of lion = powerful, king among wild animals, face of bull = a premium servant. and the face of an eagle = swift in execution. And being the technician that I am – my mind is so intrigued by the wheel within a wheel - geez, how would something like that work?! There's gotta be more to it than those spinner wheel hubcap things you see on cars. Noting that their rims were full of eyes round about [verse 18] – some commentaries suggest it represents God's omniscience – to which I agree. I'm thinking of those crazy looking rings whirling around a central core gravity drive thing in the sci fi movie "Event Horizon" – the gravity drive created a black hole bridging two points in space to reduce the length of their journey.... ok - this had nothing to do with this thread - just wanted some visual aid - haven't seen many good drawings of the wheels, just thought this movie special effect was one way of depicting wheels moving within wheels. Ezekiel's wheels perhaps being at the crux of activity [between the heavenly & earthly realms] – suggesting the "machinery" of God's program [how God interacts with us] operates under His omniscience/sovereignty rather than some blind impulse or happenstance. Like the exp​ression "where the rubber meets the road", when these wheels engage our world it becomes a crucial moment of truth. And another intriguing aspect of these wheels is that they followed the movement of the angelic beings [as described in verses 19 to 21] – again emphasizing there is intelligence or reasons behind the wheels activity and not just the product of some automatic pilot feature or chance.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Bishop! Nothing wrong with lurking – I’ve gone back to doing that a lot more…your posts have been a good read – I especially like the ones on the Actual Errors in PFAL thread.

No offense, but I think expecting TWI to re-focus on Christian principles is like waiting for the tobacco industry to make healthier cigarettes. Since the basis for its bureaucracy was a hierarchy focused on the top dog - it was inevitable that it would cave in when the dirty dog’s utter hypocrisies came to light.