Twinky

>>What I thought of the article: Cringe, run away and hide. Or bang the silly head of the author against the wall. Couldn't read it, just skipped over the oily phrases. >>Non-doctrinal response: Give 'em a link to GSC ! Maybe to the Actual errors in PFAL paper on the front page. Few words, just a link saying: Some interesting additional info here: (link)

Be "grace"ful about it though.

I went to stay with an SP who'd been very good to me and supported me generously financially. I didn't know many people in the US and nobody invited me to stay with them. So I visited this SP. Nobody ever challenged me about it. But apparently he got it in the neck from someone higher up his part of the Way tree and he (not I) was told I should have gone to some other place (not specified) and stayed with other SPs (none of whom had invited me) and taught them what I had learned in rez. HQ also told all the inrez corps they could not stay there over the hols and had to go out and share what they had learned in rez. This is not a big help to International Corps, who can't return to home areas. They didn't suggest who I should stay with nor offer "help" with who or where Internationals should go nor how Internationals should pay for travel to other areas. I think, now, I'm glad they didn't tell me where to go (I might have reciprocated) ... I forgot NY Eve is VPW's birthday. And there was the compulsory show, sort of variety performance, in the auditorium. I did enjoy some of the presentations. Never quite got the "praying in the new year" stuff. Still don't. Since New Year is an arbitrary date (as to when it falls) shouldn't all dates be treated the same? A new year at sowing time in spring or after the harvest is gathered in, makes more sense.

Enjoy, have a good time, have a drink or two or three... two drink limit doesn't apply.

If he did any of that when you were there, Wordy One, he certainly didn't when I was in rez.He did say that "mass" was a celebration of death - but that was all. In fact - "mass" is simply a variant of an old word meaning "meal" (like "mess" - a mess room isn't a messy room but one where one eats). It's a "Christ meal" - a meal of celebration. When I was in rez, there used to be a lovely decorated tree that would be placed in the entrance lobby to the OSC. And Mrs W would give "holiday gifts" to everyone. After going through a period of "Season's Greetings" - I don't care, will wish people happy Christmas, accept merry Xamas... I don't care. Please just enjoy yourselves in a pleasant and peaceable way.

Or if you've left and are thinking of going back...as I was...Google brought up GSC before The Way International...and after About The Way forum, I never got as far as TWI. There are enough escapees worldwide that you needn't feel alone.

Or if you can't or don't want to speak with people - read the boards here. Prepare to be shocked to the core.

If you want a raspy voice try . Same but different.

Good point Waysider, never thought of that. Just think...if you were deaf, you'd never have heard PFAL or VPW ranting on - and specifically never have heard LCM the arch-ranter goiong on. But then - you'd've been cast out long before as having weak believing, not having been healed. (No offence meant to any deaf people out there, not mocking you, just that organization.)

I thought you meant this kind of muzzle loader: Well it's got a loaded muzzle...!

And yet, who did JC hang out with? People in pubs, ordinary guys, prostitutes, wasters, ne'er do wells... He knows our weaknesses and loves us in spite of. If JC in all his goodness wasn't ashamed or too embarrassed or too "holy" to mix with them...why should we be afraid to present ourselves to God, in all our weaknesses? And to ask him for help, protection, whatever... as we might ask a loving earthly father? Who loves us despite our selfishness and adolescent antagonism. God's goodness and lovingkindness confronts us... urges a more worthy endeavor... not terror of him. Surely that would just make any "recipient" (?) to want to hide under a rock - not seek the protection of the Rock. Maybe, Geisha, we'll just have to differ about this. It's for each of us to form our own relationship with our Father. He loves us dearly no matter where we're coming from.

I just don't get this "fear" (=terror) of God. I loved my earthly father. He was kind, loved his family devotedly, gave his life for us in fact; he was light on discipline (that was Mum's job) but when he said No, he meant No! In all my growing years he spanked me once; well deserved; and I live with the reason why and mended my ways ever since. But be afraid of him? Be terrorized by him? Fear him? Utterly laughable. I mended my ways because of his love and his forbearance. Because he loved me. Because he would do whatever he could so that I could enjoy my life. Because he treated me kindly, tenderly, not oppressively. And so I perceive God. My heavenly father wouldn't want to terrorize me any more than my human father. Surely? By contrast, my Mum disciplined us hard and tightly. Restricted what I could do. She loved me and didn't want me to make mistakes. Did I respect that? No!!!! I grew into an angry adolescent. I hated her and we had major rows. I ran away from home as soon as I could (at age 18). My father's dying wish was that my mother and I would make up. At the end of his life he devoted himself to trying to reconcile us. And when he died...I knew that it would honor him, to make up with my Mum. Actually she is a very good, supportive, wonderful woman. It took me growing up to see that. If I end up half the wonderful woman she is, I'll be well pleased. I'd do anything to help her and improve her life. She loves to visit me (I love that too) and it would be nice if she came to live with me. Where you guys get your fear (terror) of God I really don't know. What role models did you have, growing up? What role models from your earthly bosses? Are you spiritual adolescents, still? What kind of relationship can you have, really, with someone you are afraid of? Appeasement? Subjugation (not submission)? Extreme wariness? No ways tender as a nursing mother, lovingly reaching out hands to you, a relationship to cast all your cares upon.

I will be finding all about this in Jan when I go for an overseas trip. Can't wait for the security stuff......... :(

That's an interesting new perspective, Kit. That's rather thought-provoking. My church did a "roving nativity play" this week round the houses where its primary catchment area is. We sang carols that got local residents a bit interested. Then there was a new view of a familiar topic. Joseph and Mary...my fiance...pregnant...a bit of a scrap breaks out between J&M as they try to talk the innkeeper into having them..."what are you going to call this baby?" "Well, I thought Robert was a nice name, but Mary says it's got to be something else." Later the wise men come. The innkeeper says he didn't know anything about kings, but he'd seen this couple, the girl was pregnant. "But they looked a bit...y'know, common..." And the wise men think, "Oh can't be them then, not if it's a king to be born..." It was funny. But made you think. (It was a real pregnant Mary too... baby is due early Feb. Pity "Mary's" son no.1 was fretty and crying a lot. LOL)

Why is this topic in ATW anyway?

Agreed we need to have some sort of security - but how is it delivered? I've done a fair bit of international travel. Without doubt the security is the most unpleasant, obnoxious, unhelpful, degrading - in the US. Other security officials in other countries and in very busy airports can ask the same questions - politely. Professionally. Without getting people's backs up. Most people I know, if faced with international travel and can go via the US or some other way, will opt for another way and avoid the US. They shudder at the misery of American "security." It is not just security - it's the immigration component as well. Under the big Welcome to America signs sit the most unwelcoming and surly officials ever. Are they selected for their grumpiness? After a long international flight which will take several hours and may cross several time zones, tired travellers are willing to cooperate but don't want the suspicious "evil eye" cast upon them by immigration officials. And these people are the "face of America" to tourists. Frankly, faced with such a welcome, I often feel like I'd like to perform a terrorist activity on them, or at least leap across their desk and kick their heads in (and I'm not a violent person, I go with the flow). Contempt breeds contempt. If they did the things they have to do in a professional but pleasant manner, the job would still get done - but without the stale taste of resentment. London Heathrow, for example, is extremely busy and the place bristles with security gadgets and watchful armed police officers - but the officials are polite and don't behave as if everyone were trying to do something wrong. As a result, the passengers are cooperative. And appreciative. Some airport overseas - maybe Australia: Airport official: "You have been randomly selected for ..." Me: "Nah, mate, you've selected me because there isn't anybody else about and you're bored." AO: shrugs and smiles Me: "Let's get on with it then. What do you want me to do?" (activity) Me: "How does this thing work, then?" AO: (explains) And we have a long and pleasant discussion about security, testing devices etc. I felt uplifted. Probably, so did he. Another time, my bags were searched - not in my presence - for an onward flight out of the US - I don't have a problem about that, but I did want to make sure that the breakables in it were still packed carefully. Would they let me check - they could see I had nothing in my hands? No. Would they open the bag again in front of me, and show me? No. Would they do anything to help me? No, and if I touched the contents they would search the bags again. In fact, I think they threatened to arrest me! Weeping with tiredness, I went elsewhere, and at some other place where my bags were again allegedly checked, I found a more helpful official. This one was not American - Ozzie, Brit, something else. He opened my bag and showed me that my breakables were still packed nested in the soft things so that they wouldn't be damaged. Took less than a minute. I will never go to LAX again.

Wow, bet that was really good fun! Well done for confronting the evil so publicly.

Yep, he did that. But to be fair, he did open a Bible and expound on some principles. Initially they were helpful or seemed like he knew something. He spoke confidently and with authority. His teachings were the "hook." I was willing to forgive obvious errors because he taught as no church I'd ever been to. And (unlike himself) I didn't expect him to know it all. And his followers, twiggies, were vibrant, enthusiastic and full of energy. They wanted and expected to see God at work. They glowed with excitement at walking with God. I'd been to plenty of churches beforehand. Dull congregations, might be nice enough people, but no outreach, no desire or enthusiasm. And sermons - might be nice enough but no substance. If you want to know, if you want people excited about God and Godliness; if you want to understand some of the more obscure parts of the Bible...PFAL did that. I think churches and church people have changed a lot in more recent years. Many churches now have very active community programmes and/or get involved with dispossessed members of the community. Sermons give a better sense of God, the word in action, whatever. Many in the church though are afraid to speak to neighbours, colleagues...they lack the vibrancy and excitement that Wayfers showed. The church I go to now is very active in building its community; I'm part of several city-wide (denomination-wide) initiatives. And my church minister said: "The main reason people fall into cults [yes, he said cults] is that the church hasn't taught the Bible well enough. For that I apologise." There were many people in this congregation from lots of different backgrounds/denominations, and some had been very badly hurt by legalism, poor teaching, etc. If God's voice is hidden - even and especially in the church - seekers will go where they think they hear His voice. The answer is clear. Teach the Bible. And let those who hear live it and not be ashamed to speak to others. That's the part we can all play in defeating those of TWI ilk.

Well, another great and lively discussion gone . Thanks, Johniam, good deflect. Actually Johniam digresses to a worthwhile discussion on another topic and maybe one of the Mods could split it off and put it elsewhere?

What a wacky site that is, waysider. God hates a lot of things and people, according to them. Rabid hate. Sound like any other group you know? Wonder what the predilections are of the leadership in this group, that they have so much hate? I wonder if this same group has spent any time in looking at who God loves, and who he wants to help?

You asked WHY. It may be there was no particular reason - other than to deflect attention from what else VPW was "teaching." VPW magnified one aspect of evil to obscure the evil that he was perpetrating elsewhere. It's okay to hate homosexuals...just don't look at adulterers. It's okay to hate debt - and those in debt...as long as you give us all your money. You gotta do that. It's okay to hate those who have different religious practises ... as long as you don't realize how deeply you have become involved in a weird organization. It's okay to hate the proud and arrogant ... just as long as you do what we say. It's okay to hate women ... all this mess is all that woman Eve's fault, stupid creature, never obeyed her husband. (of which last point I could say a few things...but won't) It's all part of the smoke and mirrors.

You forgot the homo/lesbian rants, thoug LCM took those to a new level.

Okay, here is something that is perhaps a precursor to the sexual predation...or perhaps it's a one step removed variant. When I applied to go in the Corps, I was required to undergo a medical including a physical medical exam. Have a smear (pap) test. Provide details of the latest smear result. I can only think - now - that it was LCM and perhaps his facilitators making sure that he didn't catch anything from some poor young woman victim. Can't have the MoG catching some sexually transmitted disease now, can we? And while we're about it - let's just test young women's boundaries to interference with their private parts. (I thought this was pretty bizarre but it was a requirement, and I thought maybe it was a requirement to enter US colleges (ha ha, it's not any such US college :( nor so far as I know is it a requirement at legit colleges) and my doc thought it bizarre also. I don't under-estimate that it's a good idea to have health checks - can be debilitating, and expensive to fix - especially if perhaps one is not a US resident/citizen and without knowledge of US medical arrangements. I might add, the doc didn't do any such test, didn't want to, just accepted my word that the latest routine test was a clear result.)

@ George:

I'm female. And not stupid (except for being gullible enough to believe that lot). Not beddable either - Rosalie told LCM he shouldn't assign me to Green Room duties (realized they were taking a risk if special services were requested). Female. Got a brain. Not beddable. No use. Pretext: not meek enough.