Twinky

Hey, DWBH, you know I don't like your rants - but you're entirely on the money with this one! He's seen it all, heard it all, must know... Maybe he harbours some desire to reform TWI from within... anyone with sense (like you) would have got out years ago. i used to like him; worked with Michele and liked her a lot... but that was a looooonnnnngggggg time ago. I've (dare I say it?) <<outgrown>> TWI and its pettiness and exclusionism and its tinpot dictators. But some have <<ingrown>> and who knows how they have changed. Not for the better, I sadly suspect.

Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many. And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.

You're so funny, T-Bone

Not petty - just stating what happened. Yep, some got a free pass if they had money or connections. And some were merely fodder or toys. All the while, of course, with the perpetrator(s) not being "a respecter of persons".

Good for you, Grace Valerie Claire. You missed some horrible times in TWI as the organization went into meltdown, well a worse meltdown than usual. A warm welcome to the Cafe!

Welcome, MnMum. You've chosen a dramatic and provocative thread for your first post :) Enjoy your time at the Cafe.

I tore mine up and put them in the woodburner, I think. Didn't want to give them away in case they got someone else interested in the content and they contacted TWI and ended up getting involved. i know I burned my Corps notes and practically everything else. Took a long time.

I can add little to this but can give a different European perspective. 1984 was the WoWFest in Amsterdam. My first big gathering of believers. There were heaps of people. I can't remember all the people that were there - but Geer was there being the big cheese. He wanted the WoWFest to be a calendar year thing in Europe rather than Aug-Aug as in the USA. I attended with British WoWs, but they were already on the field, don't know how or where they were appointed - before I met any of them - one of them witnessed to me in about the October. Even at that point. Geer's ego struck me as being inappropriate for a clergyman. I remember the WowFest the following year (in Gartmore) better, but that's not the time being enquired about.

Belle, glad to see you back posting here. You and a few others here really helped me get my head back in order after a number of "lost years" after I was M&A'd. And after the shock of reading all the horror stories that were posted at the Cafe at the time I discovered it. You and a few others provided helpful advice and you sent me some articles - think I have them still.

Hello Belle! Very long time since you've posted here. I recall you especially - you offered such helpful advice when I first found the Cafe - wow, over ten years ago now.

Did well at that, then.

From the newspaper article Rocky linked: "I want to see him get a fair trial based on what did or didn't happen, not what his beliefs are, that's really important to me," Risk [defense attorney] said. From SopUSA: "COMMENT: The age of consent, for sexual purposes, in Minnesota is 16-years-of-age. However, as is true in many states, if the actor (defendant) is in a “position of authority” over the person (minister, teacher, counselor, employer, etc.), the person must be 18. Criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is the most serious charge for such conduct in Minnesota. Multiple charges can be alleged for different acts at different times. Minnesota has “Sentencing Guidelines” in place which are intended to provide even justice for all offenders. The guideline sentence for criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is 144 months; however, in this case, there are at least two victims which would permit sentences for both. Moreover, a judge can sentence higher or lower than the recommended guidelines where there are compelling circumstances. The defendant is presumed to be innocent." What did happen is: Barnard engaged in sexual conduct with UNDER AGE FEMALES and furthermore he purports to be a MINISTER (person in position of authority). That's what "did or didn't happen" and his beliefs are totally irrelevant. So what was Risk's point again???

Hey, the man has a compassionate streak: " Barnard pleaded guilty to two of 52 counts and agreed to upward departure. In court, Barnard said he wanted to spare the victims a trial." Nah, he simply couldn't bear the thought of all the gory details about himself being exposed. 30 years doesn't seem enough for the misery he's caused, but it'll probably mean the rest of his life. Which may not be anything like 30 years.

I had a quick look at the poster. Not enticing... :( The pic in the top right corner of a man reading under a lampshade surprised me. At first glance (at a thumbnail sketch) I thought it was a seated figure with an enormous paddle behind them, for the beating of small children. ...My bad...

Hi StayQuiet. Welcome to the Cafe. It's going to be hard for you to cut ties with TWI because it may mean cutting ties with your parents, depends on how hard-line they are. Take your time, amass information so that you are confident in your decisions. Try and find some good supportive older friends or contacts who are non-Way related (your friends' parents?). As an adult [Mod Edit] you're old enough to go it alone, but "alone" is a lonely place to be with a culty background. You can also private message people here that you think you can trust, or who can help or advise you. When I got out (long ago) it was the wisdom of some people here (whose names I still don't know) that really helped me.

I have it from several sources that it's Jean-Yves de Lisle. Apparently it was announced over a year ago. People on a Facebook site seem to be aware of that. I worked with Michelle for a while. She was "good value" and fun to be around. I liked JY too though didn't know him as well. He's a trustee... he must know what's gone on and is going on... if he doesn't, he's failing in his duties and responsibilities as a trustee. At the very least, he must know that Rosie and her girlfriend are cohabiting and that runs counter to what TWI teaches - and hasn't confronted the hypocrisy. Which makes him a tacit approver and also a hypocrite. Ah well. The blind leading the blind. And they all fall into a very big ditch.

Heh heh, could be real fun if it were Donald. Ahahahahhahahahahah!!! Can you imagine!!!

Can't see that happening - those kids all ran off as soon as they could. Some of them have wound up here. Good for them!

I have it on good authority that Rosie has announced her retirement! At a recent big meeting, Rosie came out and said that she would be stepping down as of 1/1/17. She said "I'm excited about it too." She has named her replacement but I am not at liberty to divulge his name at present. But "close to home," you might expect. And, as you might also expect - there is no announcement on their website, which doesn't appear to have been updated for many months. Hi, Mr Linder! The news is out!!

Welcome, StayQuiet. I don't know the Perrys but am glad their marriage has somehow survived the predation and interference of TWI.

Brainstormer, check your PMs.

Brainstormer, how's it going with Jessie?

Possibly not as badly, but each one reports to his/her higher leadership and takes instruction as to how to deal with situations. Where Jessie shows enthusiasm, there will be instruction to encourage that. If Jessie starts flagging in enthusiasm, there'll be instruction to find out why. Of course, a lot depends on what the home fellowship leader does actually tell the higher level person. And that depends on how experienced (and therefore autonomous) the home fellowship leader is. Going out "WoW" or "Fellow Laborers" or "Way Disciple" or whatever they call it now does have rules. Some are better than others. Be in bed by midnight every night; pray in the morning before going out; have meetings in the home several times a week. Work only four hours a day; spend the rest of the day out witnessing or in home fellowships. Tithe 10% of your meagre earnings from your 4-hr/day job. Travel to your new location (and back again) at your own expense, pay your rent and deposit and all expenses yourself. Stay in your area for the entire 12 or 6 months, whatever the period is; don't go home for holiday periods or family events (like weddings) - might get permission for a funeral. No smoking, drinking, drugs or friends outside the group. Be under scrutiny the whole time; expect every action to be remarked upon and perhaps reported higher up. There is no choice in who is put in what group; do not expect that all members in your FL group are spiritually aware, mentally stable, or even just plain nice to be with. With the right people, it can be enormous fun and genuinely a time of growth. With the wrong people, it can be horrifyingly bad. As group members are so isolated, there is little opportunity to talk through less desirable experiences except with the group leader (who may actually be the cause of the less desirable experiences). Some people have been known to run away in the middle of the night (the only time they're alone).

I thought I would bump this very old thread because of something that happened recently. I was on holiday, with a friend, in a foreign country. In France. I have a smattering of French, from schooldays; my friend likewise. At a road junction, we had just turned the corner. I spotted the parking garage we needed to enter; my friend was approaching a zebra crossing which had a mum and baby on it. He stopped the car, and reversed very slowly. A Frenchwoman in a car was behind him. A very minor collision occurred. Understandably she was upset and got out of the car, no doubt berating foreigners who came to her country and drove around causing accidents and not speaking the language. Or some such. We did our best to explain but it was going nowhere. The collision had damaged the trim on one of the headlights. Nothing at all serious. As well as the headlight trim, there was actually some other damage on her fender, a small hole clearly caused by our towbar, but the offended driver wasn't even slightly concerned at that. Two young women approached us. The footpath had been apparently empty: but here came these two women. Could they help? One said she was "witness." We asked if they could speak English. What do you know? One had been in London for some years. She was now in this city, "to preach." They calmed the woman, inspected the damage; one of them used her phone to photograph the damaged trim and send to the local dealer, who emailed a price back. Meantime, I'd told the young woman that we too were Christians, and we needed to pray for a good outcome for all. I don't know that she prayed; she did say very confidently that all would be well. The matter was all resolved quite quickly and easily with payment of a very small sum of money. Although the Frenchwoman had complained that there would be labour costs, when my friend offered her extra money for that, she flatly refused to take it and said he was offering too much and she would only accept the cost of the trim as told by her dealership. The two young women were Jehovah's Witnesses. They appeared to be flesh and blood; the more fluent one (who'd done most of the translating) and I embraced. We all shook hands and hugged or kissed upon departure. They continued on their journey across the road; we got in the car and as we moved away I looked to follow these women with my eyes. They were nowhere to be seen. Were they angels? Were they "just people," who just happened to be just the right people, who just happened to arrive at the right time? With the right skills? Who knew just what to do? With the right calming manner to soothe the offended Frenchwoman? I don't know. A little later we found ourselves in a quiet chapel, and my friend and I quietly and privately thanked God for these people and for their and His help in what could have been a really difficult situation. And I found myself very much thinking of what it is to have a Mediator, who understands our situations and human frailty, "speaks our language," and who "goes in to bat" for us. I thought some very immense thoughts about the Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave his life and pleads for us. Anything that makes us think more highly of God, and the Lord Jesus, has got to be godly. I'm thankful!!

Perhaps it would be time to split off the last dozen or so posts they really don't seem relevant to the question that Brainstormer posed. And Bapsy might benefit from his/her own questions being answered on a separate thread.