waysider

OK---That's my real name. But for gosh sakes, keep it under your hat.

Even The Flat Earth Society has "hangers-on".

To clarify some points: 1.I used the Way acronym, "SIT", to refer to "speaking in tongues as taught by The Way." 2.I have lived with someone for 26 years who admittedly faked, not only SIT, but TIP and Prophesy for over 2 years before leaving The Way. So, no, I don't base my assessment on the testimony that has been presented here by some others on GSC. 3. I, too, spoke in tongues before PFAL and it was an amazing and uplifting experience for me as well. 4. I never said that "it's always fake". ******************************************************* The basis of my "premise" is that SIT, or "speaking in tongues as taught in The Way", is bogus. As a quick reference, I offer sessions 11 & 12 of PFAL. On page 62 of the PFAL syllabus, Wierwille offers a list of "12 things that speaking in tongues is". That list is nothing more than a list of Wierwille's private interpretation (or the private interpretation of whomever may have inspired him.) with scriptures thrown in to give it some Biblical credibility. What Wierwille taught in PFAL is what is commonly called glossolalia. Glossolalia has been practiced since long before the "first century". It's also been practiced by non Christians.There have been many studies conducted on glossolali and, surprisingly, the effects of glossolali are not as damning as might be presumed. The application and exploitation of said practice, however, is a whole different matter. The SIT we were taught in PFAL was really nothing substantially different than the glossolali that has been practiced by Christians and non-Christians alike for thousands of years and predates Christ himself by thousands of years.To be so brazen as to say "it's proof in the senses realm that you're going to Heaven and all hell can't stop you" is a bogus, blatant and deplorable misrepresentation and application of scripture. GLOSSOLALIA (rather lengthy but worth the read)

Trophy Mentality

The "Lies and Deception" thread raised this question for me. How did you feel when you found out that SIT is bogus?

I'm not sure, but I think that sign may still be hanging on the wall.

I saw a sign in a tavern that said "Free Beer Tomorrow." :)

Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps. "DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old. "Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. "Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.' "Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus? "VIRGINIA O'HANLON. "115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET." VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

He said "dick-tater". Heh heh heh heh heh heh!

I remember that, too. (and I was never in any upper elite circle.)

Muddy (aka McKinnley Morganfield) is best known for his unmistakable baritone voice, slide guitar and authorship of countless classics covered by everyone from The Rolling Stones to Led Zepplin. But, many people don't realize he started as a harp player. That may be why harmonica played a major role in almost every band he ever led. The list of harp players who worked with him reads like a "who's who" of musicians. It included the likes of Little Walter Jacobs, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, James Cotton, Paul Butterfield, Paul Oscher, Jerry Portnoy, George Smith, George Buford, Sonny Boy II, and so forth. And, you could compile a similar list of guitar players, piano players, drummers and bass players. TWI, on the other hand, is best known for---OK, I can't think of anything right now. Give me a moment.

RIP---Kenny Rankin

As long as people continue to extol the virtues of *PLAF* (The Wonder Class), the mythical legacy of Herr Wierwille will live on, even if only in a dormant form like an insidious virus. *PLAF*= Puke, Lugey And Flatulence

Hey, you left out the Rush, Beck, etc. followers!!

That is standard fare for The Way. They believe that they are "the one true household of God". In addition, they believe that God provides a special "hedge of protection" to those who are loyal to the organization. They also believe, inversely, that life outside the household is an invitation to the devil to do with them as he pleases. In other words, walk away at your own risk as well as the risk of your family members. So, having friends outside the walls of Zion is playing with fire by their standards. (God forbid you should date or even marry someone outside the fold!!) Or put in a more simplistic manner---It's a cult, for cryin' out loud!!

It is, indeed, Come and Get It. It's by Badfinger. ( Artist not required on this thread) Yer up!

Norah Jones covering Randy Newman I Think It's Going To Rain Today And this powerful version by Nina Simone HERE

If you want it, here it is

And, you know, the crazy part is that we convinced ourselves (or, at least, I convinced myself) that it was ok for the ends to justify the means. Yeah. I mean, so what if we duped someone into coming to twig through feigned interest in them as a human being? It was all for their own good because they were getting to see the greatness of the Word. That makes it alright, doesn't it? And, hey, they'll thank us some day, I'm sure. You know, in Fellow Laborers, we weren't even allowed to undershepherd the people we witnessed to. Yup, we turned their contact info over to local believers for that task. Doesn't that just ooze of genuine concern for them as fellow humans?

The whole concept of witnessing and undershepharding is based on deception. Time and time and time again we hear people speak of the "date and switch" tactic. I know it's real because I am a living example of someone who fell victim to this practice. The gal who signed me up for "The Class" didn't bother to tell me she was engaged even though she devoted every moment of her free time to "undershepherding" me. The whole twig knew about it and kept it under their hats until I was fully enraptured with the class. Here are some things from Witnessing and Undershepherding: Page 3 Power of Attorney: There are occasions when the principle (Jesus Christ) is not available to carry on his business. He may then execute a general Power of Attorney authorizing an attorney in fact (born again believers). As his agent to carry on his business for him. ************************ ( We are mini-Christs here on Earth??----This idea is so wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to even start!) page 10 Sell out to the ministry--grow in commitment (Need I say more on this one?) page 14 Under The Shepherd--shepherding 1.Show the person that you love him: a.Compliment him-reinforce his good points. b. Do little things for him. c. Let him know that you are willing to help him whenever he needs it. (even at 3:00 a.m.) d.Be interested in that person's interests, especially his chief interests. (The more you know about a person, the better.) e. Just schedule your person into your life (e.g., if you are going out for a coke or coffee, call them up and take them along.) 2. Undershepherding does not stop with the class. (Remember, we might be talking about people we just met last week here!--can friendship be any more contrived than this?) page 15 ---(saving the good stuff for last) 7. Build his vision of his part in the outreach of God's Word. Tell him about the Intermediate class, the great knowledge-packed tapes from Headquarters, the Home Study lessons, and the Advanced Class. People can't go farther than they are shown, so we show them that they can go as far as they want with God in his ministry. (Good lord!---If this isn't a sugar coated version of "build the sale", I don't know what is!) ******************************************************************************** ******* Yes, I would agree that the type of lifestyle that The Way promoted (my tenure was 1972-1990) was heavily based on lies and deliberate deception.

Parents deserve to sing this to their children.

"Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck." :o

Also, there are people from The Corps and FLO who can tell you about first hand experiences with middle of the night rousting that were designed to instill a sense of unwavering loyalty and obedience to "leadership". This was essentially the same kind of blind obedience that was being hammered into these kids under the guise of learning to obey God without questioning. It was bad enough that this was done to us as adults. Now think how utterly traumatic this must have been for the kids.

Interesting you should mention this. This very concept was promoted for adults as well as children. The idea was that when God said jump, you were to jump without question. And since the idea of leaders speaking by "revelation" was a staple of the TWI mental diet, when a 'leader" gave you an order, you were to follow it without question because that "leader" might have some life or death insight on the situation. I remember this happening in the mid 1970's, when a guy in the Corps left HQ grounds despite being told not to. If I remember correctly, he went into town with another guy. He was in a terrible auto accident and died as a result. Wierwille used the incident to condemn people for disobedience and really played up the obedience angle. This was a far-reaching lesson that went out into the areas that weren't directly connected to HQ. For the sake of illustrating that this was an official stance of "WayWorld" and not isolated by any means , I offer this from page 10 of the Advanced Class syllabus. Keys To Walking By The Spirit 10. Inspired action and inspired utterance may be essential. 11. Do not be deceived by the five senses. 12. Do not argue with God. 15. Watch and be ready. Revelation may come at the most likely or unlikely places and times. Of course, each of these directives has accompanying scripture that supposedly validates it as "The Word of God". So, you see, this subject of child abuse is really an extension of a large scale problem that was deeply woven into the mindset of the typical Way "believer".

Maybe a part of understanding why people saw this and didn't do something is that TWI "taught" that it was not abuse. By "taught", I am referring to a scope that goes beyond SNS tapes, and formal settings. In fact, I think it is fairly clear from the various threads here that it was considered vital and necessary. People were expected to treat their kids this way or else be thought of as spiritual weaklings. And this was done so that some two bit, narcissistic cult leader could get a new Harley or other "toy" any time his heart desired. "Yeah, beat your kids. What do I care?---- as long as I can fill my stable with classic cars and motorcycles, ill gotten at your expense".