waysider

"When I call you up, your line's engaged". When I first heard this song as a teenager, none of us had ever heard that particular expression before. I guess that's why it always stuck in my head and I considered it "recognizable". If it's too obscure, someone please jump in with another.

Hiya, mudflaps Welcome aboard.

Help!!

So often when the subject of Jonestown comes up, the question that is raised is whether we could have gotten to the point of doing what the people at Jonestown did. It's a valid question, of course. But,in a sense, I think we had already gotten to that point in regards to our communal way of life and "group think". The question for me is whether upper leadership, such as VPW or LCM, might have taken a path similar to that of Jim Jones if the situation had presented itself. There is no way to know for certain. The parallels that exist in our way of life and theirs, though, are quite alarming.

javajivey This site is absolutely a great place for advice and assistance. I haven't been to a twig since 1990. I can't see, though, how much could have changed considering they are still promoting the same bogus doctrines, such as "The Law of Believing", "tithing and ABS", "The One True Household/Hedge Of Protection",the devil spirit mumbo-jumbo from the Advanced Class and so on. And, much of the top leadership is comprised of people who were, not only privy to the corruption that has been exposed, but facilitated it and continue to cover it up. But, hey, maybe they got new song books or something. I don't know. And there are some "innies" who visit here pretty regularly who can update you on the current state of affairs. If your friends are Advance Class grads, you might want to ask them if they can solve the dilemma that surrounds the circumstances of VPW's death from cancer and his chronic, severe addiction to alcohol. (See death certificate shown on this site.) Maybe they are just in the dark about what really happened. I know I was when I stumbled in here 2 years ago. They are fortunate to have a friend, such as yourself, who has stuck with them through the years.

And therein lies one of the biggest dilemmas an exwayfer can face. VPW said cancer was caused by a devil spirit. His cause of death? Cancer. VPW said alcoholism was a devil spirit. He lived in a constant state of drunkenness. Same thing with sexual predation, etc., etc. So were we following the teachings of a possessed man? Or was that just one of the many things he was completely wrong about? It doesn't look good either way.

I never met LCM either. Lots of people here did, though. And not only met him but knew him and worked with him. They say he was abusive, arrogant and prone to sexual predation. I value their opinions. As for the rapes, there are people right here on GSC who could and have given first hand accounts. And it always seems to somehow come back to victim blaming instead of outrage over the atrocious behavior of these men who claimed to be God's representatives. Kinda like a magic trick. Take the focus off the reality and direct it to the deception. I don't think there is really any doubt that VPW did, in fact, commit the heinous acts that have been related. Why didn't the victims press charges? Only they can say. It's really none of our business. It doesn't change what happened or make it go away. It's not their fault they were raped by a man they should have been able to trust. And then, VPW groomed LCM to walk in his footsteps. But the shoes didn't fit correctly and he stumbled and fell in his clumsiness. Your ABS and mine helped to fund a deal that was intended to make it all disappear, vanish into thin air so the poor saps who funded TWI would be none the wiser. And maybe if enough people could be hushed, there would be some who never have to find out the ugly truth about what a corrupt and dark organization TWI really was and is. I hope that never happens.

Maybe they'll have some groaty pudding in your honor.

Happy Birthday!!

Felice Cumpleanios

"Dude, we're getting the band back together!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lvu8GKCPVM

edited

Good points, johnj Kinda brings to mind the old cynical remark-----"But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?" The Way was scarcely a blip in the history of New Knoxville, much less the history of Christianity.

Right city---wrong group I thought this was appropriate because the lead singer, Levi Stubbs, was buried at Woodlawn Cemetary in Detroit today. And really, just the sound of his voice is instantly recognized, if not by name, at least by the intensity he projected. Here's a link. I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch)---The Four Tops You're up, N.I.S.---The artist is not necessary to qualify as a correct answer.

In one of the first twigs I was in (1972), we had someone show up for twig who had lost an arm. You know what the talk was in twig? "Hey, if we can get this person made whole again, people will be lined up around the block, begging to take The Class." TROPHY MENTALITY!! All focused on facilitating a sale. We should have been reassuring this person they were loved for who they were, arm or no arm. Instead, we yammered on about the asinine "law" of believing and told them The Class would help them "believe" for wholeness. (It's on The Green Card.) They left in frustration, full of self condemnation for not being spiritual enough to "believe" for healing. This stuff was just plain wrong. We didn't see the reality of human need when it was staring us in the face.

"Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch, you know that I love you."

TROPHY MENTALITY It's what motivated them to actively pursue people who were already successful in their fields, whether it be athletics, music, medicine, finance, etc. It's really a variation of an old "tried and true" sales technique using implied endorsements. "You know, Mrs. Smith, your son's pediatrician bought TWO of these just last week." (TWI version) "There must be something to this if Joe Famous took the class"."

Taz For what it's worth, I think I understand what you are saying here. When my wife and I met 25 years ago, I was still active in TWI but most of my really extreme commitment and activity was on the wane. She took PLAF and a handful of the core (not corps) classes so that we would qualify as being equally yoked together. Can't marry an unbeliever now can we? She took TIP and even faked SIT/Interp. for at least 2 years. It still baffles her how it could continue to affect me. So, she was "in" it, albeit on the periphery, but it was never really "in" her.

In order to clarify my previous post, I should have mentioned that my encounters with this type of thinking extend as far back as 1972. Here is a snippet from Witnessing and Undershepharding, page 2. (1974) "The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power For Abundant Living----"

The answer is Love Potion #9, which was originally done by The Clovers but covered many times by groups such as The Hollies, The Searchers and The Beatles. Here's The Searchers' version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiScTovt8ys

In order to understand this kind of thinking, you first have to realize that we, the individuals, did not always see things in the same perspective that typified the larger goals of the organization. In other words, we thought we were out there trying to help people. In reality, though, our purpose, from a corporate viewpoint, was to sell "The Class" and recruit more salesmen into our workforce. Based on that, I think I can see why this guy may have been deemed a "bad credit" risk. I saw the same type of thing happen, also. I would witness to some person who had genuine problems and get excited about how I thought "The Class" could help them. Then, I would be told to distance myself because they would probably not make good"leadership material"(ie: salesmen). Of course, there was always some sort of rationalization applied to it that seemed to make sense to me at the time. If we had looked at this thing for what it really was, a money driven sales effort, it probably wouldn't have bothered us nearly as much. Unfortunately, we saw ourselves as philanthropists, not salesmen. As always, that's just my opinion.

You mean that gypsy with the gold-capped tooth ?

Hey, everybody, it's Herbie's birthday!!

Thanks, RG!! Perfect for a Sunday morning. I can never seem to get too much Eva Cassidy.