waysider

bfh Thank you for calling my attention to that reference in I Samuel. Still, I don't see mention of David, specifically, at this point. Following the events that took place after this, we can see where David was chosen. I don't think, however, that VPW handled this in a completely honest fashion because he fudged the chronology to make it seem like, even after all that David did, God found him to be a man ater his own heart. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know. I suppose this could go to the doctrinal forum if someone had a desire to carry it any farther. Personally, I do not.

I'm not the world's greatest researcher. Well,OK, I'n not even a researcher---period. But I have still not been able to find an O.T. account where"God said David was a man after his own heart" as quoted by VP in the PFAL class. I have seen the account that was part of a sermon given by Paul that refers to that but still nothing in the O.T. So here we have Paul making the statement in a specific context. Then we have VP using that statement in yet another context. But still, no point of origin in the O.T. which is the period of time in which David lived. How many of us remenber the blip in the PFAL class where VP strays from the point at hand and talks about how the flowers were placed on the desk because Mrs. W. thought it would be a nice touch? I, like most people, thought he was extending credit for a good idea. Little did I know that years later it would be posted here by someone who worked behind the scenes at the filming, that these comments were really a backhanded burst of sarcasm aimed at Mrs. W., whom he had just lambasted off camera for suggesting it. After VP passed, Mrs. W. was heard to utter"He was a mean man." Who would know better than she? All this is posted here at GSC for anyone who has the genuine desire to find out what kind of man VP was and if he was the "real deal".

Lone Wolf Have you taken some time to seriously examine some of the materials that are here for the click of a mouse at GSC? If you are not sure where to start, I'm pretty sure someone will be along shortly to help give some focus and direction. Are you are receptive to considering it? It takes a bit of time to wade through some of it, but the end result might just surprise you.

While we are on a side track here, I'll sneak this in. I remember hearing dr. Wierwille retell of a personal event that involved his children when they reached school age. It seems that the authorities insisted they(the children) have their shots before allowing them admittance. VPW resisted their efforts by insisting that God would protect his children, not a series of shots. Eventually he "decided" that if God could protect them from disease, he could protect them from effects of shots as well. (My wife, upon hearing the story, said it sounded like a case of old fashioned rationalization.) Anyway, he went on to say that we should NOT stop taking meds. until our healing was completed and the meds. themselves caused us ill effect. In some convoluted way, I thought there might be some logic to that. Afterall, The man speaking it had already established a level of credibility in my thinking. Years later, right here on GSC, I learned that this teaching came on the heels of a tragic event in which a believer had stopped taking meds. and died as a result.So you see, this "advise" was not some special wisdom bestowed upon the chosen ones. It was an example of how a shrewd business man can sieze an opportunity to cover his own arse and look like a wiseman in the process. Any light bulbs starting to glow?

I was always fond of "What A Fellows' Hip". Hoppy,Hoppy Easter.

C'mon people ---- :) ---- ______________ ---each other----

The ephod was one of the garments worn by the priest. It symbolized a connection to God. When Saul and David felt that they needed a connection to God, they would tell the priest to bring them the ephod. That's one of the perks that comes with rank.(being able to give orders) Having possesion of the ephod simply meant that David had exercised his authority to do so. It did not make him a priest. BTW-----The topic at hand is not "Was David the real deal?"(Please refer to title of thread for further insight)

I'm with you on Wootens' playing but, Hey!, we're talking about HUMANS here. I mean, check out the album covers . The cat is definately from outer space. I also wanted to include Dale Peters from James Gang (for that funk sound ) and Marc Andes from Spirit. I'm totally "wit youze guys" about a bass player serving as an I-Beam first and foremost rather than an embellishment on the facade of the building. Consider, if you will, the contributions of Willie Dixon in this respect. Re: Jack Bruce. I think the strength of his vocals may have been just as important as his bass work in the success of Cream. Too many to name, really, without leaving out a key player or three.

Thank you, FC, for your response to the questions I asked in my post. VeePeePee also made this statement in the piffle class, though he implied that it was in spite of specific incidents (that have been cited here) and the fact that David had been weighed in the balance and found lacking.(Notice how the examples are out of chronological order?) One has to wonder if he wasn't crafting a personal alibi to cover what his intuition told him might come back to bite him in the arse. For the record: I don't harbour any anger or hatred for the man. I just want to come to a better understanding of how this sort of deception unfolds so I don't get fooled again and can maybe prevent others from getting duped as well.

Here's one I heard on the "60's channel this morning. It's pretty easy, also. I'm not sure if it's been done here before but here it is. Some will come and some will go We shall surely pass When the one that left us here Returns for us at last We are but a moments sunlight Fading in the grass

Geeze----The words in my concordance keep getting smaller with each passing year. Would someone be so kind as to help me find that scripture that says David was referred to as a man after Gods' own heart? I'm also interested in who made the statement, when it was made and the context in which it was stated.

lone wolf Thought you said in post #139 that David was NOT the spiritual leader. What did I miss? And yeah, God gave the inspiration, but the "hard copy" came to us from fallible human beings. Remember session #2? That's part of the problem with the way TWI conditioned our thinking. We were supposed to hold onto everything they ever taught us and never even take the time to consider that maybe, just maybe, someone elses viewpoint might be just as valid as our own. There were some good lessons I learned in TWI. I won't deny that. But their approach to academic exploration and logical reasoning was deplorable at best. When a person refuses to at least consider the merits of another persons' opinion and, instead, does verbal gymnastics to try to justify there own thinking, it seems to imply an unwillingness to give a serious ear to what the other has to say and suggests that it can't possibly have any merit. Was VPW the real deal? Well, he certainly "dealt" us some powerful logic and reasoning lessons in session #7 that had some "real" long lasting effects. Sidenote: the word "real" is not derived from the same Greek word as "good".

To each his own Said Farmer Jones As he kissed Ol' Bossy the cow.

UMMMMM!------This thread is about things that SHOCK you, not things that give you cause to rejoice. Just funnin' with you, dude. Hope you don't mind.

Maxwells' Silver Hammer----------The "Fab Four"

Yeah! (What Dooj and Rascal said.)

The Law was not Israels' "spiritual leader". The Law was a stop-gap measure intended to give some semblense of order until a "spiritual leader" arrived. The Law kept a sense of organization in the physical realm because the people were not yet ready to accept a "spiritual leader". The Law was a supervisor of the physical, not a leader of the spiritual. The education in TWI: This was one of my biggest disappointments not one of my consolations. I went to Fellowlaborers with the enticement of learning The Book Of Acts in both an academic way as well as a practical application. The promise was that I would have something to take back to my hometown that would help people understand how to live a day by day and moment by moment experience that would rival the first century church in intensity. Instead, I leaned how to sprout mung beans, make my own mayonaise, and keep my sanity in the face of madness. Yeah, I got an education for sure. Little of it had any academic merit related to The Bible. Johniam---------Would you be so kind as to demonstrate those research skills you learned in TWI by explaining the essence of that passage in I Chron 8:14 that refers to David as a "Man of God".?

Oh, yeah. That conspiracy stuff was a huge deal in Fellowlaborers. Lots of stories I could tell that are directly related. Any other FL out there that might recall a few?

Here is a point to consider. I have three family members who would likely post here IF they had access to the internet.(which they do not) Others here could likely speak of similar circumstances. Soooo------To compare the number of players on team x to the number of players on team y is a moot point. If only TWO people posted, the CONTENT of the posts would still be at the heart of the importance of having a place to do so. Just my 2 cents. Probably inflated at that!

None of us are free If one of us is chained None of us are free--------------------(Nann, Weil, Russell)

Soggy I agree with the essense of your post, especially the phrase"despite it all".

John, John, John----------- Whiney women are all that frequent this thread? Trust me, I am neither of the two.(whiney nor female) Heck, I'm not even bitter or angry. It's been too long ago. Why are there so many women here? Think logical for a moment ,John. What gender comprises the majority of victims of the offence being discussed? Sometimes I think it is not TWI that you and some other posters are trying to defend,it is that doubt that lingers deep inside but refuses to come to the surface. It has to be justified in order for its presence to be tolerable. Does TWI need to be "good"? TWI was NEVER "good". There were some good people. There was some good Bible taught. There were some good times. But the organization itself? Nope. Don't see it. Now along comes someone who chimes in"Oh Yeah! Well I learned about the lost piece of silver coin in TWI!" Just remember that while someone was learning about finding the lost coin, someone else may have been learning what it meant to lose a an irreplacable part of their innocence both physically and mentally, not to mention the spiritual innocence that was sacrificed on the alter of self serving hypocrites. Does that sound like anger or bitterness? It's not. It's just the ability to look an ugly truth straight in the eye. Bring on the blowtorch. (Application of heat is a tried and true method of bringing a festering boil to a head.)

I gotta go with Eddie Gomez for jazz. Victor Wooten and Stanley Jordan for "avant gard" jazz. Rick Reed and Bill Stuve for blues. Making his way into the spotlight--------Steve Perakis(Sean Carney Band)-----he's been around quite awhile but is just starting to get some attention. OOPS!------Left out Jaco Pastorius

"For yea,verily, it did come to pass in the days of flower power, Tower Of Power, and the temptations of Eve that it was thus spoken."--------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- "If thou shalt but sign upon the card of green, thou shalt find the salvation thou seeketh, harmony in the home ,and a Cadillac with a diamond in the back, sunroof top and gangstah whitewalls." "In their confusion, the people pondered -------"Is there nothing else we may do?" "ABS!", came the answer,---------"ABS MUCH!"

Thank you, Mo, for restoring a sense of sanity to this thread even if but for a fleeting moment. Glad to see you are on the mend! :) Jesus Christ is not the Avon Lady------Ding! Dong!-----Hey! Where did everybody go?!!! (Sorry, temptation overcame me.)