ex10

Groucho was 10th too. There have been other 10th that have made a pitstop here, but seem to have moved farther on down the road. Maybe they got tired of the menu?

Yes, absolutely mark. TWI was clearly an organization that put certain men on a pedestal. In spite of the "God is no respector of persons" rhetoric, TWI was very much of cult of personalities. And another factor to consider was that there were certain women, and men too, who just had no morals. And went around doing what they pleased with whoever they pleased. There were many different things going on at different levels, I think. It's a complicated picture.

Ok, I'm going to try to explain something, but I don't know if I can do a good job or not. But it's worth trying. When someone is victimized in a sexual way, whether it be a child, adolescent, adult, there is a great deal of shame that goes along with it. Many times victims are told that if they talk, others will be hurt, no one will understand, this is special between just us, you asked for it---------you get the idea. The victim gets shamed into silence. Think of priests, who have been in the news, who victimized dozens of young boys, all at the same time, all in the same place. Yet, the victims rarely knew about each other. And if they did, they didn't talk. Why? Because of shame. It makes people hide. AND EVERY VICTIM THINKS IT IS HIS/HER FAULT. In fact, it's the major telltale sign, that yes, you were victimized. In TWI, the victims didn't know about each other. And instead of one priest in a parish molesting young boys, you had dozens of "leaders" molesting young women. Exponential growth. Think about it. The victims were shamed into silence. So each young woman thought it was only her that this thing happened to. Add to that, the fact that many of the victims were taught that it was their "obligation" to "bless" the "man of God." So even if they felt victimized, they were made to feel guilty about "not being spiritual enough to handle it." In the kind of rah rah, "let's all do the Word, we know the truth and nobody else does, we are living the 1st century church in the 20th, and wasn't that just the hottest bible you ever heard?" kind of culture of TWI, you'd have to be one brave person to speak up. Those that did, were ostracized immediately. Gotta keep that lock box, ya know. So the majority of women, who had a hint, or who knew fully what was going on, kept their mouths shut. So who can blame the men for not knowing what was going on? I hope this all makes sense. I'm trying, but it's difficult subject matter to explain.

Did you fly your TX flag today, ex70's? I'm singing with you. God bless Texas.

It was Dan Mc of the 7th, Geek, John S. to name a few. I think Dan was the main guy.

Absolutely. Got Ro-tel, too?

Can it be a shiner bock snowcone?

aw geeze. Not to minimize anybody's feeling or opinions or whatever....... But as an elder poster here, I feel like I can say something. I've had many "stupid attacks" since posting here. (Just ask anybody who's been around since WD.) My experience has been that people here are pretty quick to forgive each other's foibles, and just move on. Most times, we just misunderstand each other, cause it's the nature of the beast. We have to write our thoughts and feelings, and some of us are not as expressive in words, as others. I know the times I've felt "persecuted" (not saying that you do, I'm talking myself only) it's really easy to say I'm sorry for being such a numb butt. I misunderstood you, you don't get me, so let's just get over ourselves, shall we? And it just about always works. Conflict is what makes the world go round. It's just when we let it escalate that the problems ensue. Seeing as how most of us are refugees from a cult, maybe we should cut each other a little slack. I so apologize for being preachy. I can't stand the "why can't we just all get along crowd," but you know, there is a way to appreciate each other here, foibles, stupid attacks, warts, and all. Don't get stuck in stuff that don't matter. Shoot me, please and shut me up. :unsure:

Yeah, chef. It was actually pretty cool. I knew some of the "volunteers" I work with were wonderin about my lack of membership. And he felt comfortable enough ( and knew I'd be comfortable enough) to ask me in an open meeting. And then put everybody's gripes to rest. I love people who "get it."

In a meeting with the community care pastor of my Methodist church, he asked me point blank: "Why haven't you ever become a member of this church, after 5 years of volunteering?" Moi: "I like to consider myself a free-lance Chrisitan." Pastor: "Works for me."

Last night I stayed up way too late watching "The Importance of Being Earnest," with Colin Firth and Reese Witherspoon. Miss Prism said: "The good ended happily, and the bad unhappily. That is what fiction means." And Gwendolyn: "In matters of utmost importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing." And Jack to Algy: "Algy, you're always talking nonsense. Algy: It's better than listening to it." I love that play/movie. Many great one-liners.

Gosh what a great word! "Cheeky." Glad I looked it up, WW. I thought maybe you were getting fresh with oldies. :blink:

and when you remove the lordship of Jesus Christ and our responsibilities in our relationship with him and others...... And teach that the gospels don't apply to us..... and the "law of believing" is the key to getting prayers answered...... among many other erroneous doctrines......... what's left to keep anybody from doing as THEY please.......? It's trying to have Christianity with the Christ. Ridiculous.

Mike, I could, but I won't. Top That's why the doctrine is so evil. And why I said it interferes with our relationship with Jesus Chirst as our Lord and Saviour.

Just as we have freedom of expression, we have the freedom to work out our differences as well. If we care to, or not. Heck, just because I have a different opinion, belief system, movie preference, color of drapes, doesn't mean I can't enjoy the conversation, and appreciate what others have to say. And sometimes I just plain enjoy being disagreeable.

Mike The only thing you've "proved" is that there are contradictions in VP's teaching.

Hey T-Bone All I can say, is that for me, when John S. wrote his adultery paper, and then got fired and banished, one of the first things I did was read it, along with the intro he sent with it, explaining his reasons for writing it. That was the beginning of my "aha" moments. And knowing that Geer was behind his firing, and all the other fallout from the paper, and knowing that Geer had a personal interest in covering up the adultery, well, that's all it took for me to realized that the adultery problem would NEVER be addressed by the inmates running the asylum. I also realized that it was the doctrine (and the culture of the group that flowed from the belief system that TWI promulgated) which was responsible for the acceptance of the rampant adultery by some of the "leaders" in the know. But the problem was then, and still is now, people didn't/don't want to believe it. Anybody who brought it up, or tryed to talk about it, was immediately labeled as a "possessed cop-out". I guess that's why I still hang around this place. "The truth is out there." As always, my opinion. And I should add, it took me years, YEARS to figure out the depth of the depravity and abuse.

Satori, you said: Very well put. Before I can forgive anybody, I have to understand the offense that was committed against me. That's the hard, painful part. Sometimes it's easier to just ignore stuff, and bury it, instead of honestly acknowledging what happened. It hurts, to realize that one's heart and soul was betrayed by those we looked up to, and respected. And who were supposed to be our examples of "the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." The hypocrisy and just plain evil of it all is painful to see in the light of day. And then to go a step further, and truly forgive someone, isn't just a one-time act, as dooj so eloquently put it. It's a continuous process that hopefully ends in resolution at some point. But when that actually happens........well, it can take a long time.

Oh geeze you all, thank you for the kind words. But I have to say, I was not raped by LCM. But I was "stalked" and on his hit list. After a few very uncomfortable situations with him, I went to someone who could make sure I wasn't anywhere near him anymore. Yeah, I was afraid of him. And LCM wasn't the only married man who approached me either. I don't want to get into details here. If anybody thinks they really need to know my story, please pm me. It took me years to figure out, that IT WASN'T ME. There was a subculture in TWI where married "leaders" thought they were free to help themselves to young, single women. Just as you found out, too, Johnny, some women thought single men were up for grabs (no pun intended) as well. Sorry for the total derail. But you are right Johnny, when you say that no one else knows the depth of the pain that certain acts of betrayal caused. And that was my only point, really. I just didn't make it very well.

nandon, Don't be sorry. My only point in saying that is that some were victimized and traumatized in a very different way than others of us. I do volunteer counseling at my church, and sexual abuse is a very hard issue to resolve. Forgiveness is difficult and can take alot of hard work and time. Unless you've been there.....well, you know.

Enjoy! Dearest Jard.

From Clueless: "Would you call me selfish? No, not to your face."

Johnny, ??? I'm not talking about being "tempted" here. So you think the women who were raped and forced against their will were "tempted?" no worse that you were???

Mike, All I can say is you would make an interesting dinner guest. B) But as you know, it's not polite discuss religion and politics when one is a guest. Southern rule. Somebody might pull a gun, and then we'd all be sorry for not behaving as we should.

"Clueless" ohmigosh, when daughters are all home and it's on, we watch it, for the umteen gillionth time. :o