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Raf Duly noted. The key phrase is the kingdom. Some see this as a prophecy about the second coming. Others as one about his entry into Jerusalem, dying on the cross, the resurrection or the destruction of the Temple. I believe Jesus only spoke what the Father told him to speak. I don't see a problem with this verse. The context doesn't refer to the second coming.

Luther thought James should be stricken from the canon. But James offers us some good bits. He tells us trials will come and we should count it joy. He tells us how to go the elders for healing. He also tells us that a faith without works is dead.

I have thought long and hard about taking the bait as it were to this thread. The question posed by Oak is hard to answer without resorting to experiences. In my understanding of the Bible, I am required to tell of what God has done for me and what He can do for you. I am not required to give several theological proofs or answer obtuse questions that are only meant to degrade me because of my faith. For me, Christianity is a faith of promises, covenants and blessings. The promise of a new life here and in eternity, the covenant between God and me, about His plans to prosper me and not to harm me, if only I seek Him. I have seen Him do mighty works, pull off miracles and comfort me when things didn't work out. My faith is not in a Santa-like God. No. My God is a rock, shepherd, king who will stand by me and for me and take care of me. He is a God with high standards, but one who supplies the means to meet those standards. Sometimes He will chastise me, other times give me blessings undeserved. He sent Christ to save me from sins and they are plenty. I accepted Christ before TWI and have met up with him again on the other side. I reject the others because they are so vague in what they offer. One offers a vengeful God that may or may not allow you into paradise, but will if you kill in his name. Another religion promises a loss of individual consciousness as a reward, but only through many lives. All those require work on my part just to get into the gate. Christianity says the work has been done. All I have to do is accept. I hope that helps.

According to Raf, TWI-CES's theology has led to the doctrine that Jesus made mistakes. Either he was perfect or he wasn't. If he gave false prophecies then he is not worth following.

Speaking of good hitting shortstops, I think Alan Trammell should get some votes for manager of the year and the Hall of Fame.

Thanks for listening Mike.

Thanks blues, I'll do that. the Saved civilization book is written by James Garlow, he pastors Skyline Wesleyan in San Diego, (Mike, are you listening?)

I am now reading "How God Saved Civilization" its a look at Western History and the church. It is a good book for those of us who have been taught (by Armstrong, Smith, Russell, VPW, Moon, Jones, et al.) that the church fell into apostasy soon after the apostles died and then reappeared 1900 years later.

The modern versions translate longsuffering as patience. Remember it's the Fruit of the Spirit, not ourselves. It is whatever the Holy Spirit wants to bring forth in you. Refer to John 15 with the vine and branches.

Om You seem quick to apologize and defend TWI no matter what the statement. So I made the mistake of assuming. Sorry. Still CES sounds like warmed-over TWI, so again that's not a ringing endorsement.

Zip zilch nada

OM Considering how you deny TWI had any errors, your endorsement of CES leaves something to be desired.

here are a few:Salvation by grace, not of works (Yes, but its not a blank check to go out and do anything one wants. There are limits placed on Christians.) speaking in tongues (debateable since they can be counterfeited.) the dead are still dead, awaiting the return (Except the word doesn't really say that.) the bible is much more understandable and readable (Yes, once I got away from the KJV) the fact that these truths are taught elsewhere is irrelevant. I learned them in twi ... so that counts for something. and these things weren't all that readily available and rampant where I was back in 1973 ... (You probably weren't looking for them either.) :)-->

Sorry I am one of the faithful, I don't have to prove it. Just tell everyone about it. The burden falls on your shoulders.

It's a miracle!

Hi Dot Great post. Loved every bit of it and you too. have a great day and stay hot for Christ! :)-->

I believe in miracles. I believe in being thankful for the good things that happen to me and for the bad (See James' letter). Trials help us grow. What I discount are all the attempts by theologians to come up with valid or plausible scientific scenarios to explain the miracles of the Bible. This thread is a classic point. If a natural cause is found for the crossing, that could negate the spiritual aspect of the event. Doesn't have to, but it does have the potential for becoming a superstitious myth. Too often the natural explanation is sought as a way to give credence. I believe God can manipulate His creation to do anything He wants. (Jonah's fish) (the fish with the coin).

Beautiful letter Dan. I agree with you that CES and the other offshoots need to really look at their doctrines from other points of view. Their bias is pretty evident, especially since they still seek the approval of vpw. Good biblical study will allow for differing of opinions and let other ideas come in. Going to seminaries, colleges and other churches can prove invaluable in regard to obtaining the truth.

No I was referring to the title of the article. You and I need to lighten with each other.

Galen Why do you hang out in this "cesspool" is it because you just can't wash this stink away?

I believe miracles that can be proved, aren't miracles at all.

Let's reject Lynn Swann

Well now Sudo, that isn't so bad, I do strange things with veggies sometimes. Ever put peanut butter on a celery stick? :D--> How about peanut butter and mayo? My son and I like pb and tuna.

Hi John Shame you can't be real with us. Then or now.

In our area the teaching was that since God is love, he sends no one to a lake of fire. Even satan is consumed by his hate.