socks

jsamuel, you sound like you know much more about Geer's activities than I do. What's he been up to? I don't know anything about the items you're referring to but it would be interesting to hear a little more about it. Moderately so - I'm not interested enough to go to the trouble myself to find out personally but I'd be happy to read more about it here. I'm sorry about his wife, as I have heard about her illness second hand. Barbara always seemed like a nice person when I was around her. I first met Chis 35 years ago, last saw him in 1986. He always seemed like a troubled person with personal problems that led to his dour demeanor and inability to interact naturally with other people. (I'm not making fun of him). I do feel his immersion in the Way lifestyle and responsibilities were a means to ignore dealing with his own problems. He always seemed angry with himself. He could be a good guy sometimes but most of the time he had a shield up, being the "tough" guy, that kind of thing. I never saw a pre-post change in him myself, he was a very self conscious and self absorbed person all the years I knew him and not someone I would put a great deal of trust in. But like I say, he was a hard guy to get to know and with his attitude an easy one to ignore.

Hey Sudo, yes, it's pretty good, a little rough around the edges though but not bad. Crucifixion scenes look pretty unnatural anyway so that comes with the territory. If you break it out and blow it up a little and tweak it you can see what I mean: :D-->. For the internet and a joke, yeah, it's pretty good.

Aaah, High School Steve! (not Steve!) As good a reminder as any of how weirdly wacky life can be. Nothing more to dispense from here. But I love Friday's. Administrationally speaking, they're a real hoot!

? I thought BFD was short for BiblefanDave...? No ill intent is made from these precincts. Thrash my lazy fingers! I get you Steve! BiblefanDave, you are and ever shall be. But if you want to call me S, that's kosh'. It's Friday, a day filled with promise. : )

BFD, I think the money/greed issue isn't addressed by the personal income of VPW although I get the impression there are people look at it that way. And remember, compensation can include things that don't appear in the gross income on a tax return. Beyond that however there's actually a different slant on that topic that I believe is important. Whether it's believed or not, if you follow the path of VPW from the time he felt God spoke to him and told him He'd teach him if VPW taught it and follow how he set his ministry up with PFAL there is a contradiction that's hard to miss, I think. Keep in mind too that the PFAL of tape and film that most grads took was only filmed in 1967 and culminated all of his previous teaching formats into that one product. So when you look to the periods of the ministry's growth in California he'd only had it in the can for a year or so. That product and the 2 intermediate and advanced classes formed the core of his teaching ministry. Granted there was a great deal more teachings he did, books, etc. literally 1000's of presentations in one form or another over the years. But they're the core of what he believed he had to offer in his teaching ministry. Those classes were marketed and sold for money, different amounts over the years, fees, contributions, donations whatever you want to call them. But the process for reaching out with the teaching he said God gave and was giving him was to sell it in the form of classes and other materials. If you didn't pay you didn't get the teaching. Regardless of the reasons behind the donation structure it never varied for the mass of classes run. I see a problem with that. Personally I never expected that the PFAL series would remain being a sold class forever. But it did. If you look at the Way tree structure and the Way Corps and Ambassador programs they were constantly tooled and retooled - by VPW for many years - to make people more adept at selling and running PFAL classes. The very definition of "WOW" was a twig in every community in the world - of instructed PFAL grads. By VPW's own actions it became the single point of entry to the "household" of true believers and the only way to fully receive the "accuracy of the Word". After 15 years out it sounds silly, but it's not hard to remember that without the PFAL class under your belt it was impossible to be considered an instructed "believer" in the Way and participate in many activities. They all required you to be a PFAL grad, for the most part. Those that didn't provided the opportunity to enroll. The fact that many people still felt that being a "grad" actually served a larger purpose by helping you was, IMO, largely lost on the emphasis on the work of promoting and promulgating PFAL. The means to the end became the end itself. The Way Corps is often criticized for being hard hearted, pushy ,egotistical and single minded. Where do we think that came from? Attitude, like water, flows downhill. Granted you're going to get some mult-level marketing fans and jerks but how do you get bunches of people who want to "help people" and "learn the Word" and "build something positive" one year and within 4-5 years have a bunch of people ready to ream you out for not being at a meeting 15 minutes early and telling you just don't care about God, do you you slacker!!!??? Personally I think a lot of the problems and unbalanced behavior that grew in the Way over the years - while VPW was alive and at the helm - was the result of focusing on the work, not the end result. My point about the money is that PFAL sold something that wasn't his to sell - God's Word. The collection of specific amounts of money as a donation, a charge by any other word, for "God's Word" was wrong IMO. Per Jesus, you can't mix money and the things of God up like that even if you think it's for a good reason. It's a fine line and once it's crossed I believe the "hose" dries up. Look at any of the big money pumping religious machines and you see the same thing - a lot of talk and preening and swelling memberships and lots of problems. I believe sooner or later it catches up with you and when it's in your own lifetime, that's sooner. While all of these organizations will have people who will say God works in their lives and there's good things happening, it's tainted at the center. Everyone struggling to believe more, to know more, to give more, to do this or that more, gotta get to this conference that meeting, get that tape, get this tape,and all the time I see it as people pulling a cart filled with one diamond and a 1,000 pounds of rocks. Get rid of the rocks and the cart wouldn't be an issue. You can carry a diamond in your pocket. This is off the "Wacky" topic, but hey. We're here. : ) I don't care that much about that part of the discussion, so forgive me. I'm also not a part of any ex-Way groups of any kind and never have been, so I don't know much about them either. -edited to add more scinitallating comments and at the behest of my inner word nanny to correct typos! : )

Not quite a movie, more than a live concert - "James Taylor Live at the Beacon Theatre". 109 minutes, audio digitally mastered in Dolby stereo and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound. The audio quality is exquisite, extra DVD goodies and JT does both the familiar material and some not-so.

"Ghost Dog (the Way of the Samurai)" - Jim Jarmusch film, stars Forest Whitaker. Whitaker plays a professional hit man who lives by the code of the Samurai and is betrayed by a Mafia family he does hits for. "The Abyss", John Cameron movie, pre-Titanic. Great love story, sci-fi. Where JC got started on his underwater work. Get the DVD full set, has a "Making of" section for the film. Incredible effort went in to making it. "Office Space". Corporate Cubicle Culture, lots of good actors. "Hi Fidelity", John Cusak. Sweet story. "Amadeus". Tom Hulce plays Mozart.

This is the humor thread...right?

5 year olds....sent to the principals office??!! He sounds pretty normal to me. We sent our kids in the k-5 year to a Baptist elementary school in Tampa, Fl. where we lived at the time. They had the greatest people for teachers. I mean, at 5, kids aren't looking to line up and do anything, they're kids for gawds sake. They were so patient and understanding and the way they handled our kids their first few years in school was worth every penny it cost and we were happy to support them additionally as we were able. They made a huge impression on their little minds at the time and in the process our kids learned respect and love. They still remember them and have good memories of that experience. I STILL can't stand in line at a grocery store for more than 10 minutes without getting in to trouble!

Sudo, if you haven't read my posts on the "forgivien/are you ready for this" thread, this is an example of exactly what I was posting there. On a bad day and we were face to face I'd rip your lower right rib out for using a photo of the crucifixion of Jesus as a joke with a photo of yourself. Not to mention the use of an Elvis song, that's downright bad form. Plus my pc locked up with the audio mid-stream causing me to close and restart my IE browser, an interruption that is in and of itself The One Unforgivable Sin. These things would surely cause an immediate, but deliberate, response. But I can forgive this, you're being a jacka$$. Even using Elvis tunes. All of it. It's a good day and I hope to have many more. Ain't life grand?

:D--> :D--> :D--> HA! I just felt like Li'l Calvin should show up first and get a good seat!

This is cool. My inner dust bunny is getting tweezed just reading. Maybe mentioned?.... when my wife shops she saves all the little plastic bags that stuff comes in from the stores for small waste basket liners. For cleaning weird little metal stuff, hinges, window winder thingies, I use a mix that I came up with for cleaning guitar strings. It's: equal parts: -WD-40 -denatured rubbing alcohol, say 2 oz. each. -Few drops of a silicone lubricant. (I use polydimethylsiloxane, but only a little bit) Mix it in a plastic squeeze bottle, shake it up and squeeze on a rag to apply. It cleans metal really well, and adds a small amount of protection and/or lubricant.

yeh, I'd say it's okay for little ones that age too. I've heard from a few other families where it was enjoyed, some parts are more easily understood by adults but the characterizations are great, easily recognized. No way, Sudo! A triple plus? Not so sure. If you've seen "The 3 Stooges Go To The Moon" you know what I mean, or "Beavis and Butthead Do America" or any of the great classics. But A ++ yeah, definitely. I'll place it right up there with Spiderman 1 and 2. It's that good, maybe....maybe even better in parts. I don't go to movies much either, maybe 6-7 a year. Maybe more. But with the bigger, comfy seats in our local mega plex, it's downright relaxing. I keep meaning to catch more flicks, might make it an '05 resolution.

Interestin', Kit. Thanks. :)--> Judgment is a topic I've been perusing of late, not the end-of-the-universe judge-THIS! kind of judgment but just the concept and nuances. I always trip (as the kids say) on Jesus's words on Matth. 5:45 - that the rain falling on the unjust and evil peeps getting the same sun-day as good peeps is a result of God's love. And of course He contrasts the easy-lovin' of those we like with the idea of loving those we don't like. Be like our Father in heaven and do the dew unto others, even your enemies. None of which foregoes judgment or justice of course. But I'm continually amazed at how flipped-out-gone-daddy-o the "love of God" is. "Why do good things happen to bad people", I ask??!! Because God made it that way. I'm still trying to understand it. I try to embrace it, sometimes like a guy flying off a cliff with both arms out. That's what it feels like sometimes.

Well, I don't have any biggies (or smallies) on the administration topic. But BiblefanDave, your example of the law and the stop sign made me stop and think. Conditions, that stuff. You know, the stop sign goes up after the fact, after a traffic condition has been identified. People driving through, say, an intersection should slow down and look, and perhaps stop. Why? To allow for everyone to navigate through the intersection safely. So the observation of the traffic conditions and the appropriate actions would be normal if everyone was looking and recognizing what was going on. So what's the stop sign do? It makes everyone take the appropriate action to observe the conditions. (or at least those who choose to do what the sign says) We're now required to function in a way that considers everyone else, not just ourselves. We stop, look, proceed safely. The law just recognizes what's already happening and makes observance a requirement, not a choice. The overall condition of man in the bible starts with Genesis, right? There's God, a man and a woman, a planet, stuff. And then there's a parting of the ways. Everything after that is focused on a rejoining of mankind and God. Mediation is required, a way that will account of what seems to be an inability on the part of mankind to stay truly joined to God. In that sense, the entire topic of the bible is that mediator, that way. So to me, in a very real way, there's really only one condition that's being written about and that's the correct relationship of a life in some kind of acceptable harmony with God. Pre-"The Fall", man makes some kind of errors that causes that to be lost. Post-Christ man has a means of regaining it. And in both of these periods man's actions remain inconsistent. What's changed? One thing really - that regardless of the rights or wrongs we do we have a point of reconciliation that remains consistent and that isn't lost - the mediation of Jesus Christ. Man has had Laws. Man has a mediator. Both address the same condition - a need to have direction and help to remain consistent in our life towards God. As with time itself we can divide life into days, hours, minutes but in doing so we're really just keeping track of where we're at in life. Without a clock does time stop?

They're whacked, alright. Reminds me, I think I've bumped into maybe 2-3 active Way peeps since leaving, one I knew well at one time and lo and behold out of the blue, met them at a school function. They were back in town or something or other. Wouldn't even talk to me or my family, turned their back on us. My daughter called them "the mean people from the Way" which is about all she knew about them. Couple more times, same thing. Then I guess they left the Way finally and a few months later happened to meet someone we knew and they were bawling about how they'd been in the Way and Ohio and whaaaaah, etc. Our friend recognized the name the Way and asked if these people knew us, and of course they did. And of course now that they'd left I guess it was going to be all better. Or the other possibility, just as realistic, that once a jerk, still a jerk, regardless of what church you go to. Maybe, you never know. Some people will think they can treat you like crap one day and everybody will just forget about it the next when they change their mind. But it doesn't work that way. Most of the time, sooner or later, it seems we reap what we sow.

Well, that settles it then. I'll do the razor brains, Mick will do the **** for brains, (did I spell that right? ) Satori you can do everything else, and Tom can bring the cocoa. I don't know about anyone else but I feel a real case of clarity coming on, given that I'm about to fully realize not only what a gullible fool I've been but also that I'm comparable to a leaky diaper in a crowded crib. It's like a two-fer...get one piece of **** and any second one of the same or lower price FREE. (with coupon, while supplies last) Don't tell me there ain't no god. Time for sleep.

I can't see that fire anymore, Tom. Is it still there? (good to see you though!)

That depends Satori, on what you mean by "razors" and "brains". Did you want to talk about it?

"Poker"...metaphorically speaking.

Oh my goodness. Like the rest of us? I'm ... considering where to begin, where to begin ... I need a quiet place to park, this is as good as any ... Here's a good spot. Evil doctrine doesn't have to be mixed with good doctrine to be believed Mick. You know that. Why? Because some people like evil doctrine, they like evil, they like bad and they don't like good. Defined as you will, those things generally, it's true. Every once in awhile as I go along thinking that everyone in the world is pretty much the same and we're all gooduns underneath the wrapper, I meet someone that proves to me, shows to me, unequivocally, that we all aren't. That some people are on a different path and are warmed by darkness, not sunshine and posies and butterflies and holding hands by the fire. And even as recent as a few weeks ago, I was reminded that when you step into the darkness you'd better keep your hat on straight because people in that world see you like a wolf sees a duckling - lunch. So you absolutely don't play poker in that world because you won't win, you're not bad enough. Regardless of how evil your thoughts can go, they don't go where these other people's play. So it's better not to even get in to it with them. Unless you're completely ready, right here and now, to deal with it, which is only going to end badly no matter how you slice it. So on that one point right off I have to disagree with you Mick. There are people who like pain as much as you like pleasure and who live every day with a razor running down the center of their brain. And they like it. What do you think?

You beat me to it, Zix. I agree, we saw it a week ago. Great flick, all around. I liked that it had animated characters and at times was realistic looking but kept to the animated look. And the characterizations were really good. A++!

Song, Ex10 has found the key to interpretation. Long lost, but now am it found. In the words of the Wondering Prophet Tim, "This isn't anything and I'm nobody". No secret messages, just good clean all-American post-Thanksgiving fun. Not post-Forgiving fun. (this post not meant to imply, suggest or insinuate that any thanksgiving of any kind by anyone need be made, have been made or ever be made regarding any events past, present or yet to happen and no responsibility of any kind to be taken on behalf of or for the purpose of thanking, spanking or skanking any of the above mentioned including those not mentioned. In the event of a thanksgiving event possible side effects may include but not be limited to abdominal pain, sweats, goiters, swellings of the leg, arms, nose ears and/or throat, pustulations of the lips and/or toungue, gas, bloating, diarrhea, loose bowels syndrome, tight bowels syndrome, and other ailments, diseases and aggravations of a physical, mental, emotional nature and/or all of the above, at once or in any sequence of occurence that would imply, denote or deny a relationship to what may have been done in the same time/space continuum of this universe or any other universe imagined or real. Or not done. By anyone, that being limited to but limited to any person who may have read, seen or heard this including those who didn't, won't or haven't but not to imply that reading or not reading would constitute agreement or disagreement, compliance, non-compliance or approval or disapproval, both actual and/or tacit and including exposure to any virtual or real media representations of any kind that may or may not exist, now or forever held in peace. dmiller, I am on the case regarding these cheese head cultists though. I think I've seen them on Monday Night Network TV, even out here on the coast! They're infiltrating the media! It won't fly here in the West Coast however because all Californians know - "Happy cows make happy cheese". And we got happy cows, cows that dig the rays and have that Left Coast attitude! Tanned cows, sipping Marg-a-reetas and taking their tee times when they please. Bovine breeds that won't get sucked in!! It's udder nonsense and outright blasphemous, these cheese heads!

I too, Ex10. I hope all is well. dmiller, I'm intrigued...cheese...on their heads? Sounds like a strange new cult!!! Avast, mateys. Set the sails wide, we're off to unchartered water!!! Shaz!! and Steve! - takes warped to know warped! Geek wasn't ready for this and for that I seek forgiveness. Danny, I think it was frogs in the original, but there's quite a bit of controversy there. Notably: Malcom and the Malcomites of the 6.5th century who began to promote the concept of fowl play in many of theses parables. Although he gets like, NO props, Malcom is the first that I know of to have promoted the idea of the "lower life form" being used in the parables as being in direct contradiction to the love feasts of the early Christians which were originally vegetarian feasts. in which no animals of any kind were killed, in contrast to the bulls, goats, sheep and ducks of the old feast recipe books. While I still hold to the "many ducks" theory of interpretation I find nothing lost in Malcom's translations which used "wheat" and other agricultural products common in the middle east at that time. This thread feels like one of those little grains of rice in Riplye's Believe It Or Not that someone's written the Declaration of Independence on, in red and black ink. That would be cool. An entire thread on a grain of rice. Someday someone's going to do that but just remember where you heard the idea first. Accept no counterfeits! :D-->

Nothing like a plump Dallas Turkey! But beware - preparation can be difficult and time consuming! Dallas Turkeys don't always come out well, the meat can be tough due to the hard lives they have to live. They're the opposite of "free range organically fed" Turkeys. They live in cramped quarters, sometimes 3 or 4 to a cage. They often have scars due to repetitive injuries, poor little fellas. In-breeding can also cause unusual strains to develop so they become weak and their defense systems are shot by the time they're walking. They get force fed a diet of scraps and mishmashed regurgitations. Many have never seen a square meal once a day, let alone 3. It's tough for them. If you do buy one, make sure to clean, salt and cook slowly at low temp so all the fat melts off. It can take awhile. Properly prepared and served they can be very good, but you have to be careful.