Seth R.

The 2 drink minimum, er-uh limit, was also for WOW's and I did my best to have no more then 2 40 ounce beers on Sunday doing my laundry... :) On a more serious note, for an alcoholic 2 drinks is an annoyance it's more trouble then it's worth. Looking back it's a wonder how I stayed dry on the WOW field it was serious torture, every other Friday Sam would come over with a 6 pack of Micky's big mouth and I got two he got two and Mark got two. Just enough for a little buzz, but it took a lot of effort to keep me from walking to the circle K across the street, and buying more. So for non-alcoholics it's easy to stop at 2. But then again why even have a rule? Rules are just for breaking anyway. Maybe that was the point. Seth

I do not take that as a contradiction or disrespect, it's just more information. Usually "the present truth" is just the spin on the past truth. So what I was told I completely accept as being wrong information, after all it is TWI we are talking about. Thanks for the update, Seth

Enron? You can go further back then that, almost 100 years ago when stock market speculation was in it's heyday, in the 1920's where people were making millions (today would be hundreds of millions) on a 10% margin. The JP Morgan's and Rothschild's and Rockefeller's, big money and bankers used the collapse of the small banks to buy up the debt and consolidate more of the wealth into less hands. They might be seen as competitors but they were all friends and even family, this kind of thing has been happening through out history, but in particular within the last 100 years we can see an escalation in occurrences. It is not surprising to me what's happening, and as we approach the teens and twenties of this century I can't help but think we are headed for a 1929 style collapse again. Why? Because the grand children of the people who engineered the 1929 collapse are in the same position to do the same thing. Again. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Seth

The Bottom line is we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve which is a private bank cartel that makes "money" or Fiat Currency from debt. We need to get back to a value based currency and not the current debt based currency. Prices aren't going up, the value of the dollar is going down. Believe it or not if we were still on the Gold Standard a barrel of Crude Oil would be about $4, a Gallon of Gas about 10 cents, and the Bailout for these banks, well it would have never been needed, but if so only $15 billion. This is based on the price of gold in 1920 which was around $20 an ounce. Seth

Yes I understand, it makes sense. Something I noticed in the real world is that anyone can have any of these symptoms but not be involved with an abusive group. So comes the question, does the cult induce these, or attract people with these. From my experience I would have to say about 50/50, certainly as outreach and witnesses we wanted to get and help anyone, some of the folks I worked with during my WOW year needed psych meds more then Jesus. Which brings me to my next topic/question. Have you worked with people who on reflecting realize they weren't searching for anything until they were told that something was missing? As I look back the need to search was manufactured for me, and the illusion of needing to find God and get saved were made worse by everyone opposing my desire to find what I didn't know I needed until I was told I did. The problem of cults specifically and religion in general is they make up a product or a story about the product I call that the Big Story, and then in order to sell the Big Story they need to convince you that you are a character in that story, that you need the product. If I don't accept the story, they tell me another story for free, it's a short story but it's about what happens to those who don't buy the Big Story it's a commercial. I mean it's like laundry soap commercials, I use whatever I buy on sale that doesn't make me itch, but if I watch a laundry soap commercial I might find out that my clothes are 10% dingier then clothes washed with XYZ brand. So now I have a need I didn't know I had, now I need to find this XYZ brand because I don't want to go to laundry hell. I suspect people are more likely to research different laundry soaps more then they research the religion they are involved with or are about to get involved with and do the comparison. Hardly anyone I know has taken time to actually do some comparative religion and see how similar they all are, most only know what their Pastor or Priest tell them. Most people raised in religion are taught to believe in God, Jesus and Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Faerie one by one they stop believing in them except for God and Jesus. My question is why? How is the story of Jesus any more valid then Santa Clause? I have yet to have anyone answer sanely and authoritatively certainly they have no references outside of the scripture. Why? Sorry for the slight derail. Seth

It wasn't a class it was a couple of Corps nights that the trustees released to a very restricted audience, Standing WC, Twig coordinators, Advanced class grads. The Leadership Tapes were a requirement for me to attend the Advanced Class Special in '92. Seth

I wish I still had my notes. In a nutshell it was LCM talking about Chris Geer and how TWI decided to break from him, and all the associated BS. It was basically LCM's spin on POP and the years from 86 to 89, it was in these tapes where the term "Fog Years" was coined to describe those years. In those tapes LCM talks about the Greek word Terasso (spell?) that Lynn one of the Athletes spirit dancers showed him. He talked about how he wrote a letter of resignation and how he decided to stay. blah blah blah. Spin spin spin. Seth

About this "You sometimes talk aloud to yourself when you are alone" It's getting better but I still do it, and I hate it. (this is something I haven't shared with many people) Shortly after I left TWI I was hired to work for a Software Company, I had a really bad time I would sit in my cubicle repeating over and over outloud to myself. "I am Seth Rosen, I'm Seth Rosen..." It was torture I couldn't stop I'd say "I'm stupid" I'd utter curses and just mutter, I was really a mess. I even want to forget those things now, but it seems I need to face how sick I was and try to understand and heal. Seth

John, thanks again for this thread. Something I try to keep in mind as I go through life is that what I at times experience to extremes other people may also experience but not to the degree I do. There is a wonderful realization that can only be realized through experience and that is that all of the basic things that make a cult a cult exist in all cults, so now to me TWI is no different then JW, LDS, Scientology (well maybe that's a stretch :o ) or any of the others. I only felt this after a 45 minute group session at a cult awareness conference. For me the AFF conference I attended produced a violent emotional reaction, which helped me rearrange things in my mind. I came out the other side of it stronger, with a greater desire to fight to get my life back, and my true identity, not the cult persona. The question of how do I know if the disassociation came from the cult experience or a traumatic upbringing? What occurs to me is I seek safety when threatened, but what is familiar is seen as safe. So if I run from one situation to another without a pause to think through all the factors and consult with sound minds about why I'm running and where I really want to go , I may just wind up in the same situation, but a different venue. This is why I'm concerned for people just jumping right back into a splinter group or a church, or even getting heavily involved here, and never reevaluating their lives. I hope I made sense, if not please ask me to explain what I mean, Seth

Huh, what? Were you saying something. O.K. just kidding. You offered a lot here to read and think about thank you. I'm going to read it a couple more times. As far as Eastern meditation goes, Zen, Tibetan, etc... a true and ethical guide will emphasize that the purpose is to train the mind to be mindful. To fully experience every thought, every emotion, every sensation and still stay seated focusing on the breath. Spacing out and escaping ones own thoughts and the pain of life in not genuine meditation, that's this fast food junk food rock star guru half-a$zed meditation nonsense. I find myself spacing out less, since being treated for bipolar and talking to a therapist. Seth

If it's a Federal State of emergency, and FEMA orders the evacuation? Yes it should be $5,000 and 5 years in Federal prison if duly notified and refuse to leave. On the same token if they do leave and lose everything the Fed needs to pony up the resources to insure a safe return to the area. And looters, shot on sight. Seth

I'd thought I'd add my song lyrics I've done over the years as a jump start for Way Production numbers. "Still Way Brained After All These Years" (In the style of Paul Simon's Still Crazy After All These Years.) I met my old Twig coordinator on the street last night. He seemed to glad to see me, I just smiled. And we talked about some old times and we drank our selves some beer. Still Way-brained after all these years. Oh, still way-brained after all these years. I'm not the kind of man who tends to spiritualize. I seem to lean on old biblical ways. And I ain't no fool for church groups that poison my peers. Still Way-brained after all these years. Oh, Still Way-brained after all these years. Four in the morning, kept up praying. Speak in tongues my life a--way. I'll never worry why should I? He's coming back one day. Now I set up my living room and I string the chairs. I need to make some coffee for the twig. But it better not be bitter, or my crown of life disappears. Still Way-brained after all these years. oh, Still Waybrained.... still way brained.... Still Way-brained after all these years. I have more somewhere, Seth

Some years back, I watched a movie by that title, the main character Melvin Udall played by Jack Nicholson, was someone I identified with in a rough way. He was agitated, irritable, mean, nasty, obsessive, compulsive, reclusive, phobic, and unhappy. Although successful in his profession which required some human interaction, he only tolerated it so long as it was in the pursuit of fulfilling his basic instincts for survival, and security the social instinct was just an annoying distraction for him. In the wake of his path of self-centered destruction, he began to awaken to the fact that maybe there was help, and maybe, just maybe the cure wasn't worse then the disease. The female protagonist of the story Carol Connelly played by Helen Hunt (who in my heart I would die for) was a powerful reason for Melvin (Jack) to begin to seek help. In the process of his awakening he began seeing how rewarding facing the problems he has, is. Although the movie ends before we see Melvin's full transformation we do see the direction he is headed, and it's hopeful. The key scene and quote of the movie that really impacted me was when Melvin is talking to Carol, and he is telling her he knows he has a problem and that his shrink said in 60% of the cases a pill fixes it. Melvin hates pills, but he tells her he started taking them because, "You make me want to be a better man." In my life I've never ever been with a woman I cared about it just never developed into something serious, because I was a lot like Melvin scared to death, and frozen in fear 60% of the time the other 40% I was sleeping or drunk. There have been women in my life who have made me want to be a better man. Unfortunately they haven't stayed around to see the transformation, and I'd get discouraged and stop doing what was healthy for me. This time it's different I want to do it for me. I started taking an anti anxiety pill, which is helping, I hope it helps me want to be a better man. So far so good... roll the credits... ;) Seth

Good stuff I laughed a couple times. :o Seth

Um, OK, I give him one for wanting to carry on a legacy, but to what end? Who are his supporters? Does he even care what his grandfather was really all about? Seems ambitious, idealistic and adventurous maybe his goal is to raise an army to take back the family farm? Seth

It just looks like the persons personal mashup of teachings they did or liked and put it on their personal webspace, not caring if people see it. I would have done something like that when I was in TWI, but Al Gore hadn't invented the Inflammation Soup or Hiway at the time, all we had was FIDONET and a 2400 baud modem. Seth

The local morning talk radio station might like the lyrics to have one of their voice talents do the song and bust on this guy, they love that stuff makes for good radio. Seth

That's right I'm fed up and I'm not going to take it anymore. So I'm running for President of the United States of America. Vote Rosen in '08! Seth

Hi Jim, Good question, I would have stayed an Atheist instead of being guilt tripped into thinking I started my Mother on a spiritual journey to find God. I wouldn't have become involved with people of questionable motives and erroneous dogmatic ideas about the origins and purpose of life. I would have had much more solid sanity in my life and been much less spooky for 15 years or so of it. I wouldn't know anything about mind control and high demand abusive groups or be able to identify one and the type of people in them. I wouldn't be able to help my friends who are being approached by cults now, by providing sane and logical information about why the group recruiting them is high demand and abusive. I wouldn't have the company of you wonderful people who are all at various stages of emotional growth, some growing away from the cult mind set others wallowing in it and still others promoting it. So for better or worse I wouldn't change a thing, accept to have the guts to kick some ballz before I left. Seth

Oh, hell no! I'd have to start drinking again if I went back to TWI, and that is not happening. I'd rather roll around in a bed of hot coals then attend another TWI fellowship. Seth

Was this the Research Library?

If that's true I was possessed most of my WOW year and much of my young adult life. I do believe migraines are triggered by extremes of anything, and allergies. I'm happy I know how to balance my diet and I try to avoid bad cheap cologne, it seems the more expensive colognes don't give me a headache. Spearmint gives me a migraine as does stress, I think the house I grew up in had a furnace leak and carbon monoxide was always in the air, I had less migraines when the windows were open. Seth

Sex

Reuters is reporting that scientists in Israel are preparing the approximately 9,000 fragments to be available on the internet for anyone to view. This should be an exciting time for researchers in the field to access to documents that are currently only available to a few because of their fragile condition. I'm reporting this because it interests me to find out what folks will see in these documents. Here's a handy Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080827/wr_nm/israel_scrolls_dc Seth

Hi folks, Hoping for a mild winter, but even if it is fuel oil is way to high to ignore. Now if you own an industrial shop or warehouse I could sell you a waste oil heater that burns used engine oil, hydraulic fluid, even dot 3 brake fluid. It's a great thing for automotive shops and places that do a lot of oil changes. However we cannot sell these for use in homes. Something we don't sell but I'm interested in is wood pellet burning furnaces and boilers. Depending on the climate and the type of source wood used for the pellets you can see savings of up to 50% over oil, and a little less for propane and a little less for natural gas. A multi fuel furnace can burn grains as well, corn being the highest BTU density. There is a whole industry growing up just for the delivery of pellet fuel, so instead of going to home depot or lowes to get 40 lb bags of pellets you can have it delivered pre bagged on a pallet, or in a 1 ton sack. It takes some attention for this type of heating system, but the offset in savings seems to be worth it, the two things you need to do is keep the hopper full and empty the ash. If you empty the ash every time you fill the hopper then it's not that bad. I'm curious how bamboo would do in a pellet furnace, the stuff grows like a weed and is a very dense woody stalk. Seth