Rocky

Did you mean to say his own FATHER?

I've been well aware of that truth for many years. In this situation, the years and forgiveness and most especially the renewed relationship with my kiddo (which dates from when my daughter was pregnant with her first born) and HER grace and forgiveness have dampened the pain. Truth be told, both my ex-wife and I brought SOOOOOOOOO much emotional baggage to our marriage. Both of us are much more mellow now than we were 25+ years ago. And we are friends now. If you haven't yet gotten to a similar place, I will long and yearn for it for and with you.

Beautiful Well, the only day on which I will write. Which I do most days.

IIRC, DWBH even relayed first hand stories about Vic being physically abusive to his dog(s).

But was he a simonist?

One learns something new everyday. From UrbanDictionary.com for simonist From Wiktionary for simonist.

I say that I can't know what's in the heart of a person. But I can evaluate his public actions and things others attest to. So, I believe (that's an I statement) he was a con artist from way back. But I don't claim to know if he was always and only so.

Moral Benefits of Wisdom 2 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— 3 indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. When does one call out for insight? When might we cry aloud for understanding? Would those instances be when we feel like we're on top of the world and everything's going our way? Jesus declared that in the world we would have stress, pressure, hardship. If, as we were taught in TWI, those problems, those excruciating pains of loss are our fault because of our "lack of believing," then where in the process is God?

Thanks T-bone... and Watered Garden and Penworks. Perhaps one of my most important experiences of loss was the years I spent not reading anything but the ramblings and rants by Wierwille. Most recently, however, I have to thank Susan Cain and Dacher Keltner, though I find their books kind of hard to read... because I immediately want to write here and on my blog about reflections on my experiences in twi and with politics in Arizona as a result of what I read in the books of those two authors.

In theory, definitely yes. In practice, not always and practically never without massive (including use of police power of government) resistance. This ALSO applies to corporate exercise (often illegal) of power.

I think of a few memories of dealing with major LOSS events in my life. First, I go back to 1986 to clarify (once again) that my exit from TWI was not a matter of Mark and Avoid on their part. Next I go back to childhood to recall when a pet dog, Barney the beagle, died. I was maybe 8 to 10 years old. I was devastated. To avoid recurrence of that pain, I never wanted to have another dog. But we did get another dog eventually. In my late 30s, my brother, 15 months younger than I was, died suddenly as a result of undisclosed heart disease at age 36. I cried every time I thought of him, for at least the next year. Then there was the divorce, which was bad enough, but when my daughter was 13, she and I became estranged and I had no contact with her for the next seven years. I cried a lot over that pain. However, I have long continued to seek understanding and wisdom. I am no longer estranged from my daughter, who is now in her 30s. She has also given me (and three other grandparents) two lovely grandchildren and now has another on the way. Emotionally and socially, I can and do reflect back on those experiences with thankfulness. They (the experiences) are all bittersweet. I am only now who I am for having gone through them. Maybe one day (or many days) I too will write a memoir, including my time in TWI.

So, we've discussed, on some GSC topics/thread, the human need for belonging. And for how the draw for TWI was and is the human social need for belonging. The price for admission was (decades ago) taking Wierwille's class(es), faithfully attending TWIG, abundantly (and "cheerfully" sharing well more than 10 percent of your income), and eventually complying with increasingly heavy burdens of obedience to rulers (otherwise called leaders of various levels of the Way Tree, a dubious and counter-biblical doctrine/dogma). It never REALLY was about whether or not what Victor taught was god-breathed or the most accurate interpretation of the will of God. If it had been, a LOT of people who willingly left that "household of faith" would have died prematurely (than actually did). However, leaving/departing/exiting the group to which many of us identified with as the one providing us a sense of belonging--whether voluntarily or because of ostracization--most of the time brings some degree of emotional pain. From one of the books I am now reading: Loss serves up a rich and bittersweet stew of love and wisdom about what matters. Right inside the pain is the opportunity to see all of our present moments in a way that helps us live life more purposefully and more fully. But we can't learn the lessons that loss contains while fighting or running from it.

1A questions can be of legal matters, but the question as posed is not a legal question. This question, however, is exclusively a political question.

No. However, I understand asking such a question on GSC is inherently political, making this thread political. The news story to which you linked is from June 2018. I am aware that Arizona's legislature passed a bill last month that outlaws filming police from any closer than 8 feet. The governor signed the legislation and it goes into effect in September. My guess is that other states likely have enacted similar legislation. It will probably be litigated.

I don't blame you or T-Bone. I actually got through about 7 minutes of the first linked video. It's ALL bull$hit. In that 7 minutes he says, actually, nothing other than nonsense that can only now be reasonably interpreted as working to hypnotize his audience. He's aiming a firehouse of BS at the audience to mesmerize all viewers/listeners. "I am SOOOO grateful to Almighty Gawd for the privilege..." blah blah blah.

15 hours? Do you have any insight on where on those videos to find the specifics to which you refer?

Very true. We experienced a glut of disinformation in TWI that we were ill-prepared to cope with by use of critical thinking and analysis. That was the "genius" of Victor's PFLAP class. In said class, more that teaching us how to make God's Word our own, he conned us into making him our guru. A guru we referred to as The Teacher, and more "affectionately" as our Father in the Word. It was all bull$hit. We can grasp that now based on decades of re-evaluating a whole lot of the content and our experiences inside the cult and the corps(e) and since then, having to cope with real life. Real life that included marriages, families and children, which for me included a LOT of hard knocks. I am thankful to be a survivor, in spite of my lame efforts to incorporate bad biblical teaching and anachronistic social values.

Yes, I believe I did. Yes, it was at the time we experienced it. Who knows (the Shadow probably knows whether it still does?), but even if the cult doesn't abuse its power so egregiously these days, it's still built on false concepts of godliness. IOW, the people in it might try to be nicer and less abusive in particular, but there are limits. Anyway, abuse of power, as Keltner argues, which is what "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," is about, is based on the 16th century conception of power [Machiavelli] as something that is to be grabbed. But anymore ethical/moral organizations recognize that power is given, not grabbed. Given by the followers, not grabbed or asserted by the rulers. That would comport more closely with he who would be the greatest among you must be the least/lowest. Anyway, I appreciate both of you, Nathan and T-Bone. Also, if you'd like, I presented a similar theme in my recent (this evening) post on my blog. But I did so in a political context, so I will not put the link here. You may, if interested, either do an internet search or send me a private message and I will be happy to give you the link. However, without the political context, and more directly related to TWI and any other cult or religious group, the bottom-line is compliance is voluntary, but defiance brings consequences that followers (as I am confident you and most, if not all GSC readers), know already includes harsh penalties such as ostracism, i.e. Mark and Avoid (which might, by now, be a registered trademark of The Way Corporation) and public shaming.

by whom? My newswriting professor drilled into my head to never use passive voice. In this case, we surmise but Russell doesn't spell out the answer.

Yes, Keltner's. Part of his power principles categorized as abuse of power. There's plenty of literature on leadership, here's just one example. It's really okay if you don't, agree with the idea at this point. I'm just presenting it, not demanding anyone agree with it.

Then I saw this two minute clip which I found salient, from 1959. That was the year I first started kindergarten. I remember making potholders and having a crush on a classmate named Mary that year... and also that I liked to dress up as Eliot Ness from the Untouchables. But I digress, because my early memories aren't the subject of the clip.

This video talks about conformity. Which relates to "I have no friends when it comes to the Word..."

Well, it's been close to 40 (well, at least 36) years since I last heard Victor's voice (other than on youtube), but that quote sounds accurate. His intended meaning, I now guess, goes to the concept of leadership. Leading can be a lonely journey because leaders do not always garner followers immediately. OTOH, it also shows that his empathy deficit and may have been one of the earliest manifestations of his design foundation for a subculture built on "I'm right and f... you if you don't agree." Or, put in terms a bit less stark, perhaps you don't belong in our household/cult.

Yes, absolutely "jerk" is a euphemism. A fitting one, I believe.

Fine, even though it's not a person. However, Let's not get into insulting (here) a person who had a LOT to do with the genesis of GSC.