Rocky

The paradox, as I remember it, was that we were taught that WE were the "called out," the special ones because we had the "rightly-divided" truth. Yes, I remember reading and hearing about the two greatest commandments. But, again, for me, it wasn't until the early 1990s that I began thinking in terms of introspection. M. Scott Peck taught me, when I read his main work, The Road Less Traveled, to reflect on what I was thinking and doing. It wasn't until years later, and screwing up my marriage because of the male-dominated social orthodoxy that I even started to figure it out. The curtain didn't come up all at once to enlighten me about my psychological problems. It was a process. A journey I'm still on. Wierwille's crappy example, unfortunately taught me more than his crappy class did. That's why I appreciate people like Pavlovitz, Stephanie Foo (author of What My Bones Know), Brene Brown (Atlas of the Heart) and MANY others. Like Penworks, like Skyrider, and other current denizens of GSC. So, my conclusion, is that we very emphatically WERE taught by both dogma/doctrine and by example to be major jerks. And I was one of them. Thankfully, I never attained a powerful status or position in TWI or I have to now figure that I would have many more people to whom I would have to make amends. Being so damn sure of knowing what's right about God, or any related spiritual matter... well, going back to the OP for this thread, I believe Pavlovitz seriously understated the point. But I guess his use of a particular figure of speech in that regard can underscore the importance of it. The difference now is that I'm not a 19-year old know-it-all airman trying to sell a class. I hope others lend their insight on this subject even though this post feels like a closing argument.

Likely the parents, if not the other 12 apparently being charged, will have LOTS of time to think about the ramifications of their stupidity. Very sad for the innocent young girl.

Hmmm...

Gosh, that sounds a lot like rationalizing and excusing his non-Christian practices.

Not that I necessarily disagree with you two, but returning to the topic of the PFLAP class... it's all about removing uncertainty from us and replacing it with Victor Wierwille. He had ONE freakin' job. To love God and love others. I'm starting to think he may have missed the target on both counts.

I would argue that he did indeed go into all three. I must confess that I so agreed with your entire post that it would have been useless for me to quote all of it. Btw, remember the Einstein quote: It makes so much more sense to me now (not that it didn't make sense before) that I think of mathematics as entirely based on abstract ideas. I love that you cited the imaginary number "square root of -1." But now I realize all of math is imaginary concepts that are used to represent or describe, most of the time, real things.

Of course... please elaborate. We know the thread title poses a rhetorical question, which answers itself. I'm confident you have some pithy insight.

I just started a new thread in the About the Way forum, based on that quote. It just seems to me NOW that the quote by Pavlovitz (not a new idea, of course, and he wasn't the first to reflect on being certain about truth) that this notion completely blows the entire foundation out of PFLAP and TWI.

I have in my hand at the moment, a book by John Pavlovitz, titled "If God is Love, Don't be a Jerk." John is a former pastor who outgrew what he was taught about God. On page 39, Wasn't the entire PREMISE or Fundamental "truth" Victor taught us in PFLAP, that God's Word must fit together like a hand in a glove... with scientific precision and mathematical exactness? Besides, science isn't always precise, is it? And mathematics, well, it's primarily abstract. How long does it take an adult human to figure out that you really cannot put God in that small of a box? I know, your mileage may vary. Anyway, GSC readers may be interested in Pavlovitz' book as a doctrinal discussion. But clearly, he blows the foundation out of Victor's foundational class. He blows Victor's culture of deception completely out of the water.

That's a fact. There was (at least some) truth in Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology. What makes modern day fiction/literature so important is that (or when) a work contains or describes truth.

If the other owner shows up, or her heirs, they probably could eventually have a lawful claim to half the rent, adjusted for what your friend has to invest to make it livable for a renter.

If I was a betting man... if there's a legal problem with moving in without being able to contact the other owner, I'd bet that constructive notice by published/public notices would have to work.

That could bring her "friend" out from the shadows. Duh... great idea, Twinky. You must be a lawyer or something.

Not only a skip tracer, but attorneys in the jurisdiction in question may be aware of the use of public notices for situations such as this. Small newspapers can publish such notices which, over the course of a month or so (repeated a prescribed number of times) can be recognized (depending on the jurisdiction) in court as constructive notice. Certainly wouldn't cost $3,500. for that.

Gary. Or maybe his name was Larry.

Understatement!

So, if persuasion is the objective of one's writing, knowing what the audience wants to see and making one's case accordingly would seem to be a reasonable approach. Yes? No?

Very much human nature. Isn't that how the mind works? This phenomenon, called motivated perception, has been explored in psychological research for decades. Indeed, the world as we conceive it in our awareness is not exactly an accurate representation of what it truly is. Our perception is often biased, selective, and malleable.

I get it. For me, it's been 40 years since I endured WC training. I'm still getting over it.

So far... but it's obviously stressed right now.

In AZ there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of abandoned mines.

Wow... Btw, my local public library happened to have a copy of Stephanie Foo's book (which I mentioned earlier), so I'm reading it now. The first two chapters were difficult to get through as I lived through her horrific upbringing while flashing back to raising my daughter. It's obvious many of us, especially if we submitted ourselves to the way corpse training have trauma to get through and out of. So, Old Skool it does not surprise me that you had to deal with that breakdown. I'm thankful you've emerged and are hopefully much more emotionally healthy today.

FWIW, thus far in my life I haven't had to drill for water. Good points to remember, however.

What are you hoping to achieve or learn here at GSC? Is your relationship stressful for you? Your spouse is your husband? He says he's Christian? Do either you or he attend fellowships? Do you have children? If so, how are they doing?