Stayed Too Long

I have done my best to forgive the whole bunch at TWI and work at forgiving anyone else who has done me wrong also. Gawd only knows the wrong I have done to others. From my personal experience forgiving does not require a confession on anyones part, only an attitude change on my part. It doesn't happen immediately, requires time, some longer than others, but it can happen.

My WOW year was coming to an end and all from the area were in a caravan enroute to the ROA. There were probably 10 or more cars in the trek from Mass to Ohio, and the branch guy mapped out the route we would travel including exit ramps. He said no one was to deviate from the plan so we would all stay together and no one would get lost. I was driving the last car in our group when all of a sudden the leader decided to take a different exit than what was planned. It was through a very busy city that had 4 or 5 lanes of traffic on the interstate. and we were all in the middle lane when he decided to make the change. I could not get to the exit lane before arriving at the off ramp, so had to go to the next one, turn around, and come back. They were all waiting for me, and when I arrived got chewed out "for missing the revelation", that God was trying to tell me. If I would have been "walking with God", He would have told me a change of route had taken place and I should have changed lanes earlier. What is even more stupid than that is I believed him.

There is an account of some guy's daughters getting him drunk to have sex with them, and there was no condemnation of the women by God. The Kings in the bible had concubines and were not held accountable by God. God did get upset with David once but only because he had the concubine's husband killed first. In Timothy a leader is told to be the husband of one wife, which indicates it was available to have more than one wife.

The bible allows most sexual acts between a man and a woman including incest. Don't know if it is a real good reference as to what is right in this area.

Good explanation. Most people who do not approve of having multiple sexual partners have been conditioned that way. They feel betrayed and it hurts like hell and can be devastating. However, there are those who are not hurt and get along fine. In countries where multiple spouses are allowed it doesn't seem to be an issue. Even in the Western world "wife swapping" is practiced. I don't think multiple sexual partners can be out and out condemned. The couple would have to both agree to it for it to work and if they do, more power to them. Who am I to tell them they are wrong.

The never ending self introduction: "Bond. James Bond" "Would you be shocked if I put on something more comfortable?" "You dirty rat!"

Could it be they are all johns? or have gotten dear johns? or went to the john?

I agree you have never seen the molesting that has been going on in the RC church for decades if not centuries, but that doesn't mean it never happened. I had no knowledge of leadership in TWI using woman while I was involved, but obviously that doesn't mean much after reading posting here. I am sure you can find a good Way fellowship and a good RC church but I wouldn't give either a second look because of their pasts.

That is sick man!! You should join the blue collar tour and make some money.

Doctrine apparently is not a high priority in your decision to return to the RC church. Maybe familiarity or friendliness are values you needed in the church you decided to attend. To me it doesn't matter what the reason is just so you feel comfortable and it makes you happy. Someone else may find a small stream off the beaten path, in a grove of trees, ideal for worshipping. I would look at the reputation of the group also. The RC's have a history of their leaders molesting children and then covering it up. Red flags jump out at me.

Amen!!!...put very concisely.

I used to have the same dream over and over of someone chasing me. My legs would be so tired and aching they would not move any faster, and I would be in a panic to keep going, for fear of getting captured. The person never caught me and at some point I told myself it was only a dream and when I woke up everything would be okay. Sure enough I would wake up and realize it was just a dream and go back to sleep. I have not had the dream for years now and don't have a clue why it stopped. I very seldom have any recollection of dreams. I understand we all dream but I sure don't remember them very often.

Yes I am saying the same standards should be applied to all groups when it comes to judging their actions. Perhaps it has been wonderful for many in TWI also. Pershaps there are wonderful people and wonderful leaders who have helped many in TWI. And I surely don't believe all the leadership in TWI are molesters/abusers. But if we are saying that because the leadership of The Way has abused/molested their people we should not follow them, then the same standard should also apply to other groups, especially when the abuse has been so wide spread and gone on for so long. IN addition I grew up in the RC church and can tell you from personal, frightening experience they use fear to whip people into shape. Believe me when I say TWI has nothing over the RC's when it comes to applying fear to keep people in line. The nuns and priests I knew were just as intimidating as Wierwille or Martindale when it came to demanding obedience. The fear of going to hell was always looming for those leaving or not towing the line.

The fear I would become a "greasespot by midnight" kept me around for many years because I so believed God would bring some horrible disease or accident upon me or my family. Fear is definitely a motivator that will ensure compliance and staying in line. Pile upon that loosing all the rewards and crowns I had earned, they really had me. If TWI had not mark and avoid me I don't know to this day if I would have ever gotten the courage to leave. I was a mess after being out just waiting for the ultimate tradgedy to happen, but then one day I realized my mind was still intact and health quite sound. Around that time I also happened upon GreaseSpot Cafe which has turned out to be such a life saver. Seeing others were having similar fears after leaving TWI, relieved many concerns and enabled me to get on with my life once again.

Yesterday I visited my daughter, who is a student at the University of Montana, and we decided to get a cuppa joe at one of the local coffee shops. It was rather late when we walked in and there were only two tables with patrons sitting around. One table was in front of the counter where we ordered and had to wait several minutes for our drinks. After receiving our drinks we walked to a vacant table and sat down. As we were enjoying the coffee and conversation, I recognized one of the people sitting at the table in front of the counter as someone we knew from TWI. I called out his name from across the near empty room and he said 'hello'. Soon he and his two friends invited themselves over to our table, asked if they could sit with us, and we invited them to join us. Since I hadn't seen him for 10 years I did not know his 'innie' status, but then immediately realized we had just stood in front of their table for several minutes waiting for our drinks, and he did not say a word to us, so figured he was probably still with The Way. I did not recognize him while we were waiting or would have said something then. It turns out his two friends are the TWI leaders for the State of Montana and were not aware we were ex-TWI (I am M&A and my daughter left a few years later). Since my daughter is a student the conversation started about school. The leader wife said they had graduated from a bible college in Colorado and I immediately asked if they were with the Way. She said yes and wondered how I knew of the Way. I told here up until 10 years ago I was with the Way. She and her husband then put together their friend had known us from the Way, which obviously he hadn't told them. I figured then they wouldn't start witnessing to us, which they didn't, so the conversation just remained along school lines and talking about old times and people in twig. After 30 minutes or so we went our seperate ways. During the entire conversation I felt no ill will towards them nor had any desire to say how rotten were Wierwille and Martindale. I didn't want to lash out at them and say how many people had been hurt by the Way, including myself. I viewed them as people living their lives just like any other. Sure I do not agree with their theology but don't agree with any others either. After dropping my daughter off at her dorm and driving home, I began mulling over in my mind our conversation with them. I thought about the sexual abuse many woman had endured at the hands of Way leadership. Then, for some reason, my thoughts turned to the Roman Catholic church and all of the sexual abuse they have practiced for decades and perhaps centuries. Known pedophiles were allowed to remain in positions of leadership with children for a life time. If they were discovered they were simply moved to a new area to continue their child abuse. Leadership at the highest levels in the United States knew for years this was going on, after all they were the ones transferring the penophiles around. The head of the church in Rome refused to even acknowlege his priests were sexually abusing children until the press began pushing the issue. My point is the Way has been rightly condemned for using their influence to abuse woman. This web site and the people here want the world to know how wrong TWI is, and are doing their best to let others know so they don't experience the same pitfalls. We see how detramental it has been to woman who are adults to have been abused by those in positions of leadership. It has a lasting effect on victims. But with this knowledge many still belong to, and even join the Catholic church, swearing how wonderful it has been for them. How anyone can know in their mind that thousands, mainly young boys (children), have been sexually abused by these perverts and can still support them, is simply mind boggling to me. In my estimation the RC church is one of the sickest and most perverted group on the face of the earth. Their leadership parade around in white robes and beanies but underneath they are corrupted. If there is a God, and His venegence day is coming, surely they will burn in hell, including the previous one who is on the fast track to sainthood. Maybe now I realize, to some extent, why people stay in TWI, Roman Catholicism, or any other organization that is abusive, if they have the physical freedom to leave. First they have to be able to justify or overlook the obvious abuse. It is not personal to them or has not affected their lives adversely to any great extent. Second the group meets some need they have, whether material, emotional, spiritual, financial, whatever. It gives something back to the individual, which may only be to reassue the person they will not go to hell or loose their rewards if they stay, even though they do not necessarily want to be there. These are two reasons I have been ascertain and am sure there are many more.

Cheney accepts responsibilty for shooting hunter. "You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and — it was not Harry's fault," he said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."

That is some pretty tall grass for a man not to be clearly seen. Would love to have that stand of grass if I was a hay farmer.

Too funny!! I love Jon Stewart and the Daily Show.

There is nothing neocons will not do to support Cheney....even risk death as evidenced by this blinded supporter. In that sense we are like Osama's followers....only instead of 72 virgins we will receive (into manifestation of course) Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Al Franken, and Groucho dancing in pink tutus before Dubya.

It is fine with me to hunt cute little birds, just don't chase those cute little San Quentin quail.

Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter.

Anyone who makes a claim and it is subsequently challenged and proven false, and then the liar starts 'spinning' their false statements, and begins attacking the challenger, is not only a bad "G'spotter" but also a bad person. pooh pooh on them. Also those who begin cursing at or calling fellow poster's names because they do not agree with their view is also a bad apple. Disagreement is wonderful and when the argument is kept on a level of discussion all is well. But when people feel "personally challenged" or "personally put down" because a belief contrary to theirs is expressed, then it get ugly real fast. I have been in some heated discussions in the 'tacks' forum but have not felt anyone was 'bad' because we could not agree on a given topic. In the Doctrinal section when a discussion begins about a particular religious view and does not venture into attacking those who do not believe in God or in their personal belief, the discussion is pretty much left alone. The biggest problem I have seen in the "Open" forum as of late, is some medical advise being challenged with documented research to the contrary. Facts seem to get in the way of popular belief's and can create some hard feelings.

Click here and then click on line that says: "Please click here before purchasing to see important information about this photo." For as little ast $39.95 you can purchase a signed photograph of the Seinfeld cast, or for $125.00 a signed picture of John Gotti with a 9mm handgun and 2 bullets. Of course all with the disclaimer these are not really their signatures. Apparently you can sell anything as authentic if you say it really isn't, and it seems, people will buy it knowing it is not genuine.

I have had several come onto me in Yahoo chat rooms. They have quite a sob story, next want to send a picture of themselves so we can get acquainted, and then ask for money.

Could not find any instances where a woman was denied an abortion if her health was in question. Here are some references to it being legal in all states for that reason: Abortion Legal In Washington for therapeutic reasons prior to Roe v Wade Abortion Legal for Mother's Health. All Abortion Legal in 4 States in 1970