Lifted Up

Let's momentarily knock the 9th corps down to third place.

Number 19 today for Nadia and me. We were both born in foreign countries...she in Russia, I in California...married in TX, living in SD.

Last October 11th, I made the following post in the Birthdays and anniversaries forum... -------------------------------------------- Happy Birthday to a friend I'll come back for this one post which for more than one reason I would rather keep off the open forum. A good ex-Way friend has his birthday today, and I am thinking of him. I don't understand why contact has been deadened; just lots of guesses. He is not a GSer. Anyway, today is his day, and I pray that those close to him will make it a big day. Happy Birthday Lonnie! ------------------------------------------- Now of course the birthdays and anniversaries forum is only an archive, so I guess I have to stick this here. But I would like to repeat my post and birthday greeting, with one minor change. Actually two, since the day is tomorrow...Happy Birthday Vicki!

I realize we were the smallest corps of our era (smaller than the 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and dont know after that)...but there must be someone besides me around these days.

Haloween costumes??? We had some good ones at the HQ party in 1979.

...and if the 6th corps knew anything about it they didn't pass anything onto us...weren't they supposed to be our mentors? Of course in our first res year, the teaching was Thessalonians. In any event, I never got a hint of sin justification during my corps time. It could have been the pure way I thought. :D--> But at ROA 1978, the corps going WOW on interim year were warned rather plainly against such wrongdoings by VPW during a meeting in the woods. Well, maybe I got a hint of it after that from fellow 8th at HQ before my untimely exit...

I don't think Jonny was saying he couldn't have gained the knowledge elsewhere. I think the key...for HIM (not necessarily someone else in particular) may be that perhaps he WOULDN'T have gained the knowledge elsewhere. For example, there are oodles of places one can do academic research and writing. And, many might gasp at the thought of comparing Way Corps research to this or that university. But, according to Jonny's testimony, the corps did benefit him in that way. Perhaps it is the same for the other things Jonny says he learned in the corps that have helped make him successful. If Jonny does not deny someone else's testimony about their unpleasant experiences...and I think he has made it clear that he doesn't...then I don't think giving his own testimony about the things that have helped him that he learned in the corps is looking through rose colored glasses.

A few things I'd like to mention... There seems to be what I always have suspected...quite a difference in experiences between those of us who were in residence in the 70s...and those who were in from the late 80z through the 90s. Especially in the good times, the extra-curricular activities, the getting away with things (which even a quiet person like me was able to be a participant), and the regulation of and the accounting for each minute of the day. I have a hunch that in much more recent years, you couldn't get have fun doing a lot of things that I and others in my time did. For me, one thing that was valuable (which I carry to this day) was the fitness and health thing. That includes the eating. Yes, the in residence corps meals at Emporia in the 70s was not an all you can eat thing. Most (me included) could have eaten more at most meals. Frankly I don't think that was a bad habit to get into. Perhaps it seems a better habit for me now, in my 50s. But I think it was a goos start. Funny, I never lost any weight though, despite the running and work. I did have a fellow 8th corps Indy buddy and lightbearers partner who lost a hundred pounds and looked much better for it (some of you fellow oldie 6th and 8th may remember the famed General Patton). On the other hand, another person I knew at Indy who went into the 6th corps (and who i joined for a while at Emporia when I went into the 8th) GAINED weight in residence...she told me once she had never before eaten as regularly as she did before the corps. And, I think the quality of the food was good. It sure wasn't a diet of Big Macs, Whoppers, monster burgers, and cheesecake. What does it mean? Okay, that's another debate with perhaps much different answers. But when I hear someone talk about the in residence corps diet as if it ere a starvation diet, and as if the corps people came though it emaciated and unfit, it sharply decreases, to me anyway, the authority and believability of the rest of their testimony. By the way, I would be interested in being enlightened as to what the corps diet has been like in later years from some of you younger and more recent ex-corps.

Gary Beach.

Aw, shucks, Raf (remember you gave me permission to call you that)...you didn't mention my old classmate...he's up there with those guys, getting his own Tony for his role. But I'm glad to hear you liked it; I'll pass it on. Believe it or not (and who cares anyway) the last time before this I communicated with someone from my old high school (besides my sister), was back at Emporia when I learned that an 8th corps brother/sister pair had gone to the same school. But they werent there at the same time I was, as this guy was. Old Groveton High School in Northern Virginia...which, sadly enough, ceased to exist several years ago.

Has anyone seen this, and, if so, what is your take on it? I don't expect to be flooded with affirmative answers. Many people will be like me, out here in the boonies with no time ot money for a trip to New York. And, for those within earshot, I know tickets to a Broadway show, especially this one, are expensive, if you can get them anyway. The reason I am asking is that I have been exchanging a few e-mails with someone connected with the show; he is a former classmate from my old high school. I have read everything there is about the show, I guess, but that's not the same as getting an unbiased view from someone who has seen it. If there is anyone, that is.

Together you got it right. I have seen the movie criticized for being more of an old style 50s or 60s flick and for not being realistic. But I liked it; maybe I'm too old style. I think Fuller did a good job in focusing on a small group. And, as I mentioned, I like that sequence.

In a certain war movie made some years ago, a sergeant decides against cleaning out a mental hospital, bacause, as he said, "Killing the unsane isn't good public relations". Whereupon one of his soldiers responded, "killing sane people is?" While this movie could not be considered a classic, this is one of my favorite movie lines. I just wonder, does anyone else recognize this, and knows the name of the movie and the actors involved?

OK rascal...the main reason I did not want to give the full reason is to avoid triggering another heated discussion. However, I can clarify something. Rascal did not lie in the least about her experience. In fact, she was brutally honest. It was her INTERPRETATION of her experience that someone else called into question, whereupon Rascal responded that it was just the way she felt.

rascal, maybe recant wasn't the best word. In any event, I will tell you in a private topic, by the weekend, as I am running around like crazy these days...you know about that. Or in an e-mail if you prefer; still at smile092850@hotmail.com here.

Rascal posted... I gave you my support because you have given, IMO, some of the most vivid testimony I have seen about wrongs done to someone in TWI (see "consensual sex in the way among singles" in archives), even if you seemed to recant it a little. And I don't like it when someone questions someone's testimony (not opinion) on what happened to them. In contrary to what someone once told me privately, it is testimony that has value to me, not rhetoric, opinions, hearsay, or even well meaning second hand accounts of what happened to someone else. That person told me that if I didn't believe their telling of what happened to someone else, I probably wouldnt believe the person's firsthand account. I don't like that, either. So, if someone speaks out about what happened to himself/herself...and especially if it is about something that is very personal, hurting, and hard to talk about...such as sexual abuse or forced abortions or something else that fits into this category...not just talking about what happened to someone else or a bunch of general others...then I owe that person my support. In this case, I think Oldies was actually making a valid point, from his point of view. However, I also think he strayed off that into the grounds of talking about you (and others), without getting a vivid picture in his mind of himself in your place, that is, experiencing the same hurts you have testified to, and imagining if he could REALLY brush it off as if it were nothing.

I think I get Krys' point, whether or not I agree with it...which I dont feel like getting into right now. Obviously, Galen, you have it all over the rest of us when it comes to sub warfare, but she has it over us on the point she is trying to make. I just thought I'd make that point...Krys may not answer, as she has said she has left this thread...twice. Now, for a little diversion, I have to say I like your post anyway. I have done a lot of general studies of WWII and the sub warefare part, among some other things, has fascinated me. My mom and dad were in the navy, and my dad served on a ship (think it was a cruiser) where if you were torpedoed or bombed you still might have a reasonable chance of survival. But if you were on a sub (submerged) and are depth charged...well... I have also studied at length the THRESHER accident. Those last minutes and seconds must have been a terrible time for those on board. Just thought I'd mention that; maybe this thread could use a derailing.

I don't think anyone's been brought into anything. Each person who has posted has seen comments made that he/she feels a need to respond to. The sharper are perceived the comments, the greater the need felt to say something. That's how a few of Mikes threads got going and going and going. And there is nothing wrong with replying as one sees the need. But no one is FORCING people to respond, either in Mike's threads, this one, or any other. So, when I see people blame it all (whatever "it" is) on the starter of the thread ("but daddy, he started it"), I cringe. Yes, I made a response myself, to a very insensitive post a little while back, but I cant and wont blame anyone else for my response. Let's face it...people can post things we decide we really need to respond to. But, if someone is so tired of what goes on sometimes, why keep posting then blame it on someone else? Even people who claim to be leaving often keep coming back "one more time". Some threads with a lot of squabling just keep drawing attention, partly from those who complain about the squabling. Other threads, such as my "I love you" thread from two and a half years ago, dont go too far (and sometimes disappear as in that case).

MINNESOTA WEATHER SUMMARY NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DULUTH MN 1100 AM CST FRI MAR 5 2004 LATE THIS MORNING CLOUDY SKIES WITH AREAS OF LIGHT SNOW AND FLURRIES CONTINUED OVER THE STATE. THE EXCEPTION WOULD BE THE NORTHEAST WERE THE SUN IS BEGINNING TO BREAK THROUGH. READINGS RANGED FROM THE UPPER 20S TO MID 30S. THE STORM SYSTEM WAS LIFTING RAPIDLY NORTHEAST ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES. SNOWFALL AMOUNTS FROM THE STORM RANGED FROM AROUND AN INCH NORTHWEST TO 6 INCHES SOUTH...TO OVER 10 INCHES NEAR PHILLIPS WISCONSIN...WHERE THUNDERSNOW OCCURRED. TEMPERATURES TODAY WILL NOT CLIMB MUCH FROM THEIR EARLY MORNING LEVELS TOPPING OUT FROM THE MID 20S NORTH TO MID 30S SOUTH. A WEAK RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE WILL SETTLE INTO THE STATE TONIGHT...BUT SKIES ARE EXPECTED TO REMAIN MAINLY CLOUDY...THEN ANOTHER FAST MOVING TROUGH OF LOW PRESSURE WILL PUSH ACROSS THE STATE ON SATURDAY...CARRYING A CHANCE OF LIGHT SNOW TO THE NORTH AND RAIN OR SNOW SOUTH. A WARMING TREND IS ON TAP FOR EARLY IN THE WEEK WITH HIGHS AS WARM AS THE LOWER 40S IN SOUTHWEST MINNESOTA.

That snowstorm will move rapidly northeast out of eastern Minnesota this afternoon...but not before continuing to give the eastern part of the state a good pasting. The good stuff is roughly from Redwood Falls to Jackson and east.

Have you ever heard one of Bobby Knight's public apologies? Not to imply he is alone in this or invented it, but he is just the one I think of right now. Charitably, it is the "I am sorry if you were offended by what I did or said, even though I didn't do anything wrong, you just happened to be at the wrong place and time" type of "apology". Not so charitably, he seems to say "it's your own fault if, besides the fact that I'm right, you are so oversensitive." In short, it doesnt say a thing about perhaps he really thinks he may have been (gasp) wrong. But at least that is not as bad as announcing "I apologize if anyone is offended or hurt but what I am about to do or say. Howver, I am going to go ahead and do it anyway, because since I am doing it, that means I don't think it is wrong in the least. That's because I intend only for those who would not be offended to hear it, kind of ike sexist jokes in the workplace." No, I am not referring to Rocky, Zix, Paw, or Pam...PamSanDiego that is. I have communicated with two of the above on the MAIN matter of this thread and don't feel anyone has enough of an edge on this for me to comment. and by the way. shortly after his post, Mr. P-mosh commented... HAD to??? Well, if you equate Christ to Santa Claus (it's not dangerous unless you get serious) or Freddy Kreuger, as he did on another thread, I see why he may have FELT he had touse it. By the way, I think Bobby Knight is a great basketball coach. Kind of like Ron Luciano, formaer major league umpire, respected his major nemesis, Earl Weaver. Weaver had a rather marked disregard for the integrity of umpires. Luciano explained that he respected Weaver anyway for knowing how to manage, for never allowing his pitchers to throw at opposing players, and other things. [This message was edited by Lifted Up on March 07, 2004 at 7:40.]

IMF that was your quote that you re quoted; my own comments were to reaffirm that it is not required to be a current OR former TWI adherent to post here.

Greg, I like your post. Please hang around.

I think it is clear that it is not required to be or have been in TWI to past. It is not even required to tell the truth about who you are. Many people post anonymously. I think this has caused some problems people need to deal with. Some examples (I'll use old ones so as not to refer to anyone in the present) were the Catmandoo and Grapeape affairs back in Waydale days. However, so have the many freedoms we have in this country caused some problems. Just as not many would want to cure the problems by eliminating the freedoms, I don't think very many here would seriously advocate eliminating anonymous posting, for reasons which should be obvious. We just have to come to our best conclusions, obvious or not, and deal with any problems as they arise.

He made it rather plain at ROA 1976...and this was on the album of the same...when he recited Ephesians 6:10 as "Finally, my bretheren, be strong in V. P. Wierwille", then when the crowd yelled out "no", he demanded to hear a louder "no".