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Mike

The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW

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Sirguessalot,

Allow me to address the 5 problems you?ve mentioned.

?Problem #1 - you seem to assume everyone else is more stupider than you.?

In 1998 I assumed that I was the only one who didn?t know about Dr?s Last/Lost Teaching when first shown to me. In the weeks and months that followed I found out that MANY were ignorant of it. I?ve found vast pockets of similar ignorance regarding other important topics in the record. I have discovered that as I informed myself of the contents of the record, it becomes very obvious that many others have NOT done this, and have also forgotten much. I don?t like the word ?stupid? but the word "ignorant" fits the situation. I didn?t assume it, I discovered it. Ignorance is an easily correctable situation for those meek to learn.

?Problem #2 - you seem to assume everyone else missed the EXACT same things you did in your own PFAL experience.?

I am aware of the exceptions, few as they are. I think it?s a fair approximation to say things like Dr?s last teaching slipped by us ?all.? Even those who did know about it let it slip from awareness. Many other things slipped by just about everyone. If it?s the case that my reporting on the contents of the record ?overly? informs anyone I shall throw myself into the mud and beg forgiveness.

?Problem #3 - you seem to assume that only those mysteries YOU have found in PFAL are worth the most.?

You seem to assume that I report ALL the mysteries I have found. I only report the ones I think will do the most good at this time. I do make assessments as to what is worth while, and because I am working God?s Word to bless people, I expect Him to teach me and guide me into the most worth while endeavors. I do NOT regard myself as a chief in the field, merely the first among Grease Spotters to dive into these things. IF any of you want to start digging PFAL for treasure I?ll celebrate your finds and appreciate them as much as the things I?ve seen. Besides, most of the things I?ve reported were shown to me. It?s not like I?m any discoverer or anything.

?Problem #4 - you seem to assume everyone else who wishes to be as smart as you about PFAL should be as willing as they are able to solve your riddles and find the cheese at the end of your maze.?

Anyone ?who wishes to be as smart ... about PFAL? has already arrived in my book. As far as my riddles like mirror reversal go, they are to lighten things up. I can?t assume EVERYONE will be intrigued by my style, but it seems I don?t have any trouble attracting response posts when I pose these things. If NO ONE responded I?d try another approach.

?Problem #5 - you seem to assume everyone else will marvel at the simplest of paradigms.?

Yes, I do assume that.

I?ve seen that the truth, after all the thickets of error are torn away, is MARVELOUSLY simple. Scientists have long known that ?nature keeps her books on a thumbnail.?

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Mike---

Who's your Lord? VPW or JC? You ought to be examining Jesus Christ's teachings with the minuteness that you're using on the writings of a man. A man, by the way, who always said, "Don't take my word for it-- read the Bible."

Regardless of what anyone thinks about VP and his teaching, he always told us to go to the Word, and some of us who have actually done that have found that much of what he taught was wrong. But most of us spent years studying the Word of Wierwille instead of the Word of God, and as a result got sucked into believing the wrong doctrine. If you really believe that "the Word of God is the Will of God" you need to study IT and not the word of any man.

PS,

The whole idea of a dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual comes from Greek philosophy, not from the Bible. Check your church history.

[This message was edited by Mark Clarke on April 01, 2003 at 9:19.]

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Excellent point Mark. The great doctor did not teach the words of Christ unless they fit perfectly into his propaganda....

Luke 17:20,21

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Didn't Doc teach the pharisees were seed? Why would JC give them the keys to heaven. Why would he tell them where to find it. Was Christ missing the "revelation"? Why didn't the doctor address this stuff, Hmmm? My guess? He was a hack!

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Mark,

I was often, in the 70?s, accused of making Paul my Lord instead of Jesus Christ, because I paid more attention to the epistles than the gospels.

If you ever did a lot of witnessing to other Christians, like I did, then surely you have run into this same accusation. How did you handle it? Is Paul your Lord?

Why don?t you search all my posts to see how I have regarded Jesus Christ as my Lord? It would save me the time of pasting them all here, and save on complaints about wasting cyber ink.

Karmicdebt,

And if your guess is wrong, then your debt increases, unless you have a saviour to pay that price.

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It was very surprising to see that in Dr?s vocabulary and usage of words, he reserved the phrase ?Word of God? for the spiritual side, and the word ?Bible? for the 5-senses side. Knowing this while reading and studying PFAL is VERY useful.

Here is where Dr taught us this. It?s in ?Receiving the Holy Spirit Today? page 27 (in the 6th edition it?s page 44):

******************************************

******************************************

******************************************

RHST p. 27

As we eat physical food to strengthen the physical

body so we must have spiritual food to build up the

spirit. Your mental faculties are not built up through

the exercise of speaking in tongues, but your spiritual

faculties are greatly strengthened. Things which are

in the senses world cannot feed the spirit. This is a

law of God.

John 3:6:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that

which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This law works with mathematical exactness and

scientific precision. Anything that is obtained through

the five senses?seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting,

touching?is in the senses world and relates itself to

the flesh. The Bible is in the senses world, and as

such the law of God requires that the Bible feed the

mind which is included in the Biblical word ?flesh.?

So if the Bible is in the category of the senses world

and thus can feed only the mind...

******************************************

******************************************

******************************************

There it says point blank that the Bible is in the five senses category. Not only does it say that there, but it says it TWICE there, in two successive sentences, in two slightly different ways.

Dr often taught that "The Word of God" was in the Spiritual category, like in John Chapter One the Logos existing in the beginning, but the Bible was NOT in existence in the beginning, it was only in God?s foreknowledge.

The Bible doesn?t contain The Word of God.

The Word of God contains the Bible.

Here is another one of these many occurrences of Dr?s precise useage of these words. The Way Magazine article "Ordained of God" (J/A81) has some passages that later were re-worked and appeared in Chapter 5 of Vol. V ?Order My Steps In Thy Word.?

The magazine was printed pre-1982, when things were building up to the big change over, when the 40 year 1942 project was completed. The book was printed post-1982 when these new things were fully available. The magazine has the Natural/Factual perspective and the book has the Spiritual/True. There was a change in the revelation to Dr because of the change in circumstances.

Here is a small sample of both for comparison.

Natural-Factual ......................................Spiritual-True

MAGAZINE.................................................. BOOK

If you?re called of God, ...................A person called of God

you have to be the first..................has to be the first

person up in the morning; ...............person up in the morning-

you?re working, ............................ ready to work,

you?re serving God?s people. ............preparing to serve God?s people.

You get up, ..................................A leader gets up,

you pray, .....................................prays,

you read the Bible, .........................reads God?s Word,

you speak in tongues, .....................and speaks in tongues;

you prepare yourself with ................he must be prepared with

the greatness of God?s Word, ...........the greatness of God?s Word,

[This message was edited by Mike on April 01, 2003 at 9:56.]

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Mike,

Please, don't get me wrong, I love the fresh air and envigorating exercise that comes from engaging the exotics of this forum.

And you fascinate me at times. Not quite the clogged-sewer type of fascination. Nor is it awe.

I watched the ?Banger Sisters? last night, and heard a line that reminded me of your GSC approach: ?Stop resisting me. It?s just making you upset.?

icon_wink.gif;)-->

quote:
Ignorance is an easily correctable situation for those meek to learn.

Amen

quote:
If it?s the case that my reporting on the contents of the record ?overly? informs anyone I shall throw myself into the mud and beg forgiveness.

No, it?s just the case that your reporting is insistant and graceless to the point of becoming unfruitful and irrelevant, for which I will allow you to throw yourself into the mud. There does seem a greater degree of hospitality among scriptures' successful holy men, not that it always works out for them, but more often than not it does, especially hospitality among those perceived as brethren, for agape?s sake.

quote:
You seem to assume that I report ALL the mysteries I have found.

Apologies. I did not mean to seem to assume such. I actually have never assumed such a thing. I do not doubt the volumes you have in store for the GSC and/or your initiates.

Just, why do you seem to hold ignorance of YOUR yet-to-be-concealed mysteries against everyone? I'm sure you'll claim you don't, and I'll even go as far as to say that you honestly do not want to.

Not that you see people as less for moral reasons, but maybe less out of tough luck. And it's your job to bridge the gap of fortune, right?

"If they only knew what they're missing, they'd be better off then they are."

Been there, done that.

Regardless, your rebut does not really seem to address the problem I mentioned anyway.

quote:
IF any of you want to start digging PFAL for treasure I?ll celebrate your finds and appreciate them as much as the things I?ve seen.

(cough/bull$hit!) icon_wink.gif;)-->

quote:
...but it seems I don?t have any trouble attracting response posts when I pose these things. If NO ONE responded I?d try another approach.

(cough/bull$hit!) icon_wink.gif;)-->

Do you feel like Paul at times, trying to get home to rescue a bunch of ?flunkees? from the nostalgic days of his beloved cult, to the point of allowing himself get the crap beat out of him for no reason other than he thinks that persecution validates this new revelation that will save them from a dying branch?

Heerz another dichotomy for ya:

SPIRITUAL - - - - - - CARNAL

Sacrifice/Charity - - Martyrdom/Waste

Wisdom - - - - - - - - Foolishness

Re: Problem #5:

quote:
Yes, I do assume that.

I know you do.

quote:
I?ve seen that the truth, after all the thickets of error are torn away, is MARVELOUSLY simple.

Have you really seen THE truth, or some truths?

I didn?t know THE truth had been revealed yet.

How in the heck did I miss those fireworks? icon_wink.gif;)-->

Re: playing the ?Truth is always only simple? card:

Sure, comprehending truth in micro IS comprehending a simplicity.

Orthodox, too, is founded on the need for simplicity.

Comprehending truth in macro is comprehending a simplicity too.

Question is, how many simplicities are there to comprehend?

1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? 10?

High high do we count before the numbers get too complicated?

I remember when counting to 100 for the first time was a big deal.

I was too young to remember counting to 10 for the first time though.

That must have been simple.

Heerz another dichotomy for ya:

SPIRITUAL - - - - - - CARNAL

Simple - - - - - - - - - Easy

Simplicity - - - - - - - Banality

Transcendent - - - - - Ridiculous

Witness - - - - - - - - - Proof/Evidence

Mysteries of God - - - Esoteric Mysteries

Profound truths - - - - Cryptic and arcane enigmas

Tree - - - - - - - - - - - - Idol

Planted - - - - - - - - - - broken/uprooted

Growing - - - - - - - - - Dying

Free - - - - - - - - - - - - Purchased

Anyway, I thought of a few more ?chotomies? for us to chew on.

But I fear that they will just not live up to those revelations someone else has shown you.

Although I do hope you live up to your promise to celebrate others? PFAL finds someday.

SPIRITUAL - - - - - - - - CARNAL

Righteous Law - - - - - - - Unrighteous Law

Law of life and liberty - - - Law of sin and death

God - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mammon

Tree - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cross

This one is reversed, front to back:

CARNAL - - - - - - - - - - - - - SPIRITUAL

Past - - - - - - - Present - - - - Future

Faith - - - - - - Love - - - - - - Hope

Asymmetry - - - Equilibrium - - - Symmetry

Body - - - - - - Soul - - - - - - Spirit

The Cross/Tree of Christ - two intersecting planes of dichotomy?

(Where ?satan walks the earth,? up and down and to and fro):

CELESTIAL PLANE (both height and depth):

Alpha - - - - - Kingdom of Heaven - - - - Omega

Above - - - - - Horizon - - - - - - -- - - Below

Up - - - - - - - Height- - - - -- - - - -- - Down

In - - - - - - - - Depth - - - - -- - - - - - Out

Christ - - - - - Heart - - - - - - - - - - - - Adam

Heaven - - - - Man - - - - -- - - - -- - - Earth

TERRESTRIAL PLANE (both breadth and length):

Male - - - - - - Neuter- - - - - - - - - - Female

Right - - - - - - Middle - - - - - - - - - - Left

Lion - - - - - - -Man - - - - - - - - - - - - Lamb

Carnivore - - - Omnivore - - - - -- - - -Herbivore

King - - - - - - - Kingdom - - - - - - - - -Theif

Gnashing- - - - Light/Darkness - - - - - Weeping

Rage - - - - - - -Peace/Tribulation - - - Sorrow

Beast - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Whore

Heir - - - - - - - Marriage - - - - -- - - - Virgin

Seed - - - - - - - Fruit - - - -- -- - - - - Flower

Fruit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Seed

Leaf - - - - - - - Wood - - - - - - - - - - -Root

Husband - - - - Child - - - - - - - - - - - - Wife

Christ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Church

Using VPs paradigm to represent juxatapositions of conception and development of the Son of Man (Adam and/or Christ):

ADMINISTRATION

Paradise - - - - - fetus - - - - - - - conception

Patriarchal - - - -newborn - - - - - fetus

Law - - - - - - - - child - - - - - - - embryo

Christ - - - - - - - adolescent - - - - labor

Grace - - - - - - - - adult - - - - - - - birth

Wrath - - - - - - - - elder - - - - - - - swaddling

Paradise - - - - - - - death - - - - - - manger

But it seems that other men?s divisions of ?God-Time? present paradigms of their own.

Some divide things into 4 times. Some into 3. Some into 9. Some into just 2.

They seem to have relevent application, as long as they are not considered THE ONE AND ONLY penultimate formula required to initiate any comprehension of heaven and earth. That is when they seem to lose life (from being so caged).

Anyway, making this sh!t up as I go along.

Carry on,

tng

[This message was edited by sirguessalot on April 01, 2003 at 18:14.]

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Carrying On:

Here is a list of some scriptures connecting with this thread?s topic.

This listing is the short version. I noticed that the extended contexts in the long version contain a few remote references to the Return of Christ. I?m posting this short list here for quick easy reference.

I Sam 16:7

...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth;

for man looketh on the outward appearance,

but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Isa 55: 8,9

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways,

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Matt 6:20

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,

where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt,

and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

John 4: 23,24

But the hour cometh, and now is,

when the true worshippers

shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:

for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit:

and they that worship him

must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 12: 24,25

Verily, verily, I say unto you,

Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die,

it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He that loveth his life shall lose it;

and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Acts 1: 9-11

And when he had spoken these things,

while they beheld, he was taken up;

and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up,

behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee,

why stand ye gazing up into heaven?

this same Jesus,

which is taken up from you into heaven,

shall so come in like manner

as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rom. 1: 20

For the invisible things of him

from the creation of the world are clearly seen,

being understood by the things that are made,

even his eternal power and Godhead;

so that they are without excuse:

Romans 8:5-8

For they that are after the flesh

do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit

the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death;

but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

for it is not subject to the law of God,

neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I Cor 1:26-29

For ye see your calling, brethren,

how that not many wise men after the flesh,

not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world

to confound the wise;

and God hath chosen the weak things of the world

to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world,

and things which are despised, hath God chosen,

yea, and things which are not,

to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

I Cor 2:9-14

But as it is written,

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,

neither have entered into the heart of man,

the things which God hath prepared

for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:

for the Spirit searcheth all things,

yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man,

save the spirit of man which is in him?

even so the things of God knoweth no man,

but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,

but the spirit which is of God;

that we might know the things

that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak,

not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,

but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;

comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:

for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them,

because they are spiritually discerned.

I Cor.15:50-52

Now this I say, brethren,

that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I show you a mystery;

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,

at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.

II Cor. 4: 18

While we look not at the things which are seen,

but at the things which are not seen:

for the things which are seen are temporal;

but the things which are not seen are eternal.

II Cor. 5:14-17

For the love of Christ constraineth us;

because we thus judge, that if one died for all,

then were all dead:

And that he died for all,

that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves,

but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:

yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,

yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Therefore if any man be in Christ,

he is a new creature:

old things are passed away;

behold, all things are become new.

II Cor.10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh,

we do not war after the flesh:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal,

but mighty through God

to the pulling down of strong holdsicon_wink.gif;)-->

Casting down imaginations,

and every high thing that exalteth itself

against the knowledge of God,

and bringing into captivity

every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Gal 5:16,17

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,

and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit,

and the Spirit against the flesh:

and these are contrary the one to the other:

so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Eph 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,

but against principalities, against powers,

against the rulers of the darkness of this world,

against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 3: 20

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above

all that we ask or think,

according to the power that worketh in us,

Col. 1: 9

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it,

do not cease to pray for you,

and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will

in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Col. 3:2-4

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,

then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Heb 4:12-13

For the word of God is quick, and powerful,

and sharper than any twoedged sword,

piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,

and of the joints and marrow,

and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight:

but all things are naked and opened

unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Heb11:1,3,6,27

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,

the evidence of things not seen.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed

by the word of God,

so that things which are seen

were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him:

for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

By faith he forsook Egypt,

not fearing the wrath of the king:

for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

I Peter 1:3,4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again

unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled,

and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

I Peter 5:4

And when the chief Shepherd shall appear,

ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

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Mike,

Let me see if I'm reading you right.

VPW makes a literary error, defining a word with the same word ("...to be righteous means that we can stand before God in the righteous-ness with which He clothed us..."), making the definition meaningless, and you don't see a problem with that, because you "look with eyes of thankfulness."

Thankful for what? that God gave VPW such incredible revelation that it doesn't matter that he (or He) can't write?

VPW made a lot of other errors in PFAL, too, but I suppose the reason they don't matter to you either is that your "eyes of thankfulness" will overlook such "apparent" errors in the face of such incredible revelation given to VPW.

VPW made a lot of practical errors, too, in fact, practical errors that ruined many lives. His behavioral errors weren't sins of the moment, but cold, calculated, and sadistic, and he knew that they were evil so he did his best to hide them, justify them, or destroy anyone that would call him on them. As you've hinted at in other posts, I suppose that your "eyes of thankfulness" are willing to overlook VPW's life of sin, even when that sin included you on one occasion, in the face of such incredible revelation. What's a few lives and hearts, when so much great hidden treasure is being revealed?

The trouble is, according to the Bible, God revealed his Word to His faithful, not to those walking in the way of the ungodly. And I can't think of a verse where God didn't care about His own because His Word was more important to Him.

God knows what His Word is. He doesn't need it written down for Himself. He wrote it down for US, His beloved. The spiritual supercedes the natural, but that does not mean that the things of the natural realm have no value. Trampling the hearts of His faithful in order to get His Word out just isn't God's style.

shaz

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It seems the good rabbi wants us to retemorize a covert list of dualities, which someone had surgically removed from VPs spinal cord and entrusted to him. We are then to cross-reference this top-secret formula with select passages from KJV in order to crack the spiritual code. Good students will be graded on the length of their phylacteries.

icon_wink.gif;)-->

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so God needs us to join a cult.

get hurt.

find out it is useless people worship.

Then go to a web site and use the teachings from same said cult with a guy in california that has suble hints to the real understanding of why we didnt get it the first time .

ok I got it ...

Is this power or love ? seems complicated... what about the stupid people huh ?

I think I have issues with the word master ...

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Mikes wrote: Karmicdebt,

And if your guess is wrong, then your debt increases, unless you have a saviour to pay that price.

Mike, it was your doctor who told me the button won't come out. Thank God. Now I don't need to have a savior. Once saved always saved....I spoke in tongues just like you...isn't that my proof that I believed and now gives me the liberty to be an unbeliever? Woo hoo! Party!

And Mike, I still do not believe in your Jesus!

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quote:
Originally posted by Stayed Too Long:

At least this is a break from the war posts.

On second thought, I better go back to the war posts.

Don't allow resentment and bitterness to hinder healing.


Frankly, speaking as a new person to this forum, I think this particular post is the best yet. Instead of bashing, or stating negative things, or whatever you want to call it, maybe it's time we all started letting hearts heal and focus on the positive, namely, The Word. God Bless y'all!

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sunshine rain

I love your handle.

you agree with mike about the teachings ?

I also love the words of the bible . I have problems with defining what "the word" is .

Mike thinks it is the lost teaching of vpw... etc.

I am still wondering myself. What does the word mean to you and what is it?

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SunshineRain

Welcome to the cafe!!

Don't be too concerned about the posts here. You'll probably be battle hardened in not to short a period of time.

Not alot of people here intersted in discussing the word (Mike will throw Wierwille around with you though.) Most posters are just glad to be out of the clutches of TWI, and getting reinforced and built up with others here. Usually discussions of The Way and how they mistreated people dominate here, but Iraq took front and center the last few weeks.

"Las Vegas law prohibits the pawning of dentures." L.M. Boyd

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Over the last page,

I can't tell whose posts I like better-

Shazdancer's or Sirguessalot.

(*declares a tie*)

-------------

Mike,

a few posters have tried to point something out

to you, which you seem to be ignoring.

I'm going to borrow a page from your own

operations manual, and dumb it down from you.

meek master: "There is the natural and the

spiritual. There is a contrast and a great

difference between the two."

everybody else, in harmony:"NO SH!T!"

-------------

Why did you need anyone to point that out to you?

"Well, the distinction is important!"

Yes, but so is green traffic light from red

traffic light. Since the distinction is SELF-EVIDENT,

few people lose sleep over the dichotomy.

------------------------------------

Reminder to the newcomers:

Unless Mike has reconsidered his position (which I

hope happened), Mike believes that the Bible which

was so lauded in pfal and in countless teachings,

books and tapes by vpw is essentially useless in

conveying what God wants us to know.

That job is exclusively handled by vpw's works,

centered around vpw's books.

Mike seems certain that the clearly-plaigiarized

pages in those works were NOT plaigiarized. The

books, instead, were developed during some meetings

as a joint-venture between God and vpw.

(The "absent Christ" remained "absent".)

Mike believes this to be true because he believes

that God gave vpw a promise of an exclusive

contract, and sealed it with some sort of miracle.

(The snow on the gas pumps, and the 1942 promise.)

Absolutely NOTHING must be allowed to sully the good

name of vpw's perfect materials, which are so good

us logical people keep confusing it for passable

writing. Mike's devotion to his preciousss is

all-encompassing. When he closes his eyes, he sees

it before him, like a great unlidded eye, or a

circle of fire before him. (Hm, that sounds

familiar.) Thus, everything it says holds great

promises, and secrets await the one who decodes the

introductions, acknowledgements, and copyright dates.

CLFOBS Ministries. Join NOW!

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Wordwolf,

For you and other dumbdowners I?ll spell out my reasons for this thread.

We (older leader grads) never really finished PFAL in the 70?s, so we were told to master it. One of the reasons why we never finished it, and why it is not well understood today, is because we were never aware of (or forgot) how Dr used HIS vocabulary to emphasize this dichotomy.

As we return to PFAL, knowing that certain words in Dr?s vocabulary pertain exclusively to the spiritual side and certain others to the physical, THEN our reading will progress faster and more accurately.

The purpose of this thread is NOT to inform of the obvious: the existence of the dichotomy.

The purpose of this thread IS to inform of the not-so-obvious: the WAY Dr described or referred to the dichotomy.

Many AEs and other problems become workable as we get this dichotomy clear IN THE TEXT of the PFAL writings.

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okay...I'll ask...what is an older leader grad? Exactly what position did you hold? How many name tags do you honor? Does my corps training make me a leader or the fact that I got to be a WOW family coordinator after 6 months of being " in the word"? By the way...I apologize to my WOW sisters for that too...sorry, just following orders...

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Karmicdebt,

This phrase ?older leader grad? has been evolving in my vocabulary due to the demographics of readers and posters here. As I slowly learned in posting, many people here never personally saw Dr?s ministry functioning well and in action, only Craig?s. Many never saw the ?good old days? in the 70?s, before the Corps started helping the adversary to spoil it all.

Remember, I do not subscribe to the one villain theory. I think we (older leader grads) all contributed to the problems.

I have slowly learned that most of what I have to say primarily concerns those who were in ANY kind of leadership position in and around the time of Craig?s installation and Dr?s death, around 1982-85. I am defining ?leader? here as just about anyone with some intelligence who went farther than merely taking the class. In MY use of leader, IN THIS CONTEXT, I mean any twig leader on up (or is it down?) plus any Corps or WOWs. It could also mean any one that served, or was in a position to help and guide.

Because I do not subscribe to the one villain theory, I see primary responsibility for the ministry meltdown (one year after Dr?s death) as being due to the collective disobedience of older leader grads, and YES, I DO INCLUDE MYSELF HERE! I think we (older leader grads) all contributed to the problems, but the GOOD NEWS is that we older leader grads can come back to PFAL, master it as we were so often instructed to do by Dr, and then resume the ?good old days? only in better form, never to be tricked out of it again.

As for newer grads, I think it?s much more difficult for them (you?) to ever become motivated to return to PFAL with Craig?s fingerprints all over it. I try to reach out to newer grads the best I can, but it?s the older ones who know what I?m talking about best.

As time progresses, I believe this situation of me singling out older grads will be less important.

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Now I realize I was taking your posts too personally. Once again I am under the radar. I took the class in 1982.

Please pass the salad...No wonder I couldn't digest all the meat and potatoes... icon_smile.gif:)-->

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quote:
Originally posted by Mike:

Many never saw the ?good old days? in the 70?s, .


Are you referring to those times when vpw had the young girls (18-21 still a girl in my book) performing sexual favors for "the man of God for our day"?

I did not see this with my eyes but have enough CREDIBLE evidence so as to cause me to question EVERYTHING tha man taught. His fruit was rotton and, as Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruit"

Without the influence of PFAL, I am free to really know God's will and have a definite relationship with Jesus. The Bible fits allot better, too.

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Wow,

No. I was not referring to that. I was referring to the love and great cooperation we enjoyed ON THE FIELD.

Maybe you would have done better to have FIRST questioned everything he taught. Thet's what I did.

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