Actually, George - - ol' VP taught that some prophecy WAS revelation. If it was "foretelling" of something in the future that was going to happen, then it had to be by revelation. If it was "forthtelling" it was just speaking it forth, a la the manifestation of prophecy.
He taught that 7 of the manifestations were evident in the OT with the exception of SIT and interpretation of tongues. Those were only evidenced after Pentecost (yeah, THAT Pentecost).
I often wonder where Martindale got the chaputz to change so much of what Wierwille taught...I mean, it's common knowledge that loyboy wasn't too sharp at "working the word"...his knowledge of Greek and Aramaic were dismal, and he had nowhere near the overall knowledge of the bible that many of his peers in twi had...but yet...once the "mantle" was laid upon him, he thought that every fricking idea that entered his numbskull was revelation?
I can still recall listening to king okie give his 15 minute words of prophecy while at Emporia...he would go on and on and on...........................................and on. :blink:
The Way Ministry said that only 7 manifestations were available in Old Testament times
but I say all nine were used in Old Testament times
does not a dream of pictures that needed interpretation = dreaming in tongues = speaking in tongues
When these dreams are given a interpretation = dreams with interpretation = tongues with interpretation
So I believe the greater than that came was Christ in us by seed -- rebirth -- while in the old Testaments it was adoption by works but today its adoption by birth
I all so recall written Craig a note telling him its not the God of Abraham, nor the God of VPW but the God of Craig M
then I said VPW is dead and gone the class needs to be remade
He wrote me and told me VPW class was good enough
then a year later he got Revelation to make a new class
Now I was wrong about it once being the God of VPW or the God of Craig
But the point I am making is that my what many of us have wrote Craig over the years has made it become revelation
Actually, George - - ol' VP taught that some prophecy WAS revelation. If it was "foretelling" of something in the future that was going to happen, then it had to be by revelation. If it was "forthtelling" it was just speaking it forth, a la the manifestation of prophecy.
He taught that 7 of the manifestations were evident in the OT with the exception of SIT and interpretation of tongues. Those were only evidenced after Pentecost (yeah, THAT Pentecost).
Simplied version, but you get the idea.
J.
I knew that. Craig's point was that ALL OT prophecy was revelation (as Penguin notes). Amazing how many peole accepted the "new light" without blinking.
And yes, Ex, my name is George St. George. What's yours?
I knew that. Craig's point was that ALL OT prophecy was revelation (as Penguin notes). Amazing how many peole accepted the "new light" without blinking.
Hmmm. That *new light* must've been powerful.
Powerful enough to get the *Deer In The Headlights* effect, from the flock, eh?
Droll, Groucho! just like your namesake. Actually, VP got it from Jack Edwin Stiles and Brian George(or is it
Gregory) Leonard(now taught be Evelyn his widow, living in Texas), who in turn got it from Lester Sumrall and Smith Wigglesworth, plus Dennis and Rita Bennett, Sam Storms, John Ireland, Charles Bryant, John Wimber(once associated with Ted Wise), etc. Where Craig got his version, uuuh. Now, there was an imbecile.
I can't remember what he based it on--he was changing so many other things and terms by that point that good wayfers were just trying to keep up with the new stuff so we didnt get reproved for holding to old wineskins. I could try to look it up-but really dont want to be reminded of the teaching and put that stuff back in my head again. :blink:
does it matter?!?!?!?? this whole question and i pose this as an answer not a rude insult
if it comes from GOD then it comes from GOD
ie a prophet is one that speaks for GOD< therefore saying what GOD told him to, or what GOD taught HIM too, ie prepared him to.
a prophet / prophecy and revelation [word of wisdom word of knowledge] i see very closely intertwined
i do not think all prophets were walking around, hearing then saying, hearing then saying, i think often they were saying what they had heard---past tense from GOD. still the message is FROM GOD.
alot of what the way did they did to put themselves on a pedestal, ie they didn't do this, but we now do, crap.
instead of humbly and thankfully being in GOD's presence and respecting that GOD was allowing them to take part in what HE was doing.
As much as I enjoy a good, spirited debate, I was really only trying to find out what the current status of TWI teaching on the subject was. Penguin summed it up in her(?) first post. If anyone actually knows why LCM changed the doctrine, other than just to show he could, it would be interesting to know that.
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penguin
Less than a year ago it was LCM's version that was being taught.
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jardinero
Actually, George - - ol' VP taught that some prophecy WAS revelation. If it was "foretelling" of something in the future that was going to happen, then it had to be by revelation. If it was "forthtelling" it was just speaking it forth, a la the manifestation of prophecy.
He taught that 7 of the manifestations were evident in the OT with the exception of SIT and interpretation of tongues. Those were only evidenced after Pentecost (yeah, THAT Pentecost).
Simplied version, but you get the idea.
J.
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penguin
Lcm taught that only 6 manifestations were available in the OT/Gospels.
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dmiller
He was a numb-skull too. :B)
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excathedra
my people i am bored
sowwy george st. george (is that your real name) ?
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GrouchoMarxJr
I often wonder where Martindale got the chaputz to change so much of what Wierwille taught...I mean, it's common knowledge that loyboy wasn't too sharp at "working the word"...his knowledge of Greek and Aramaic were dismal, and he had nowhere near the overall knowledge of the bible that many of his peers in twi had...but yet...once the "mantle" was laid upon him, he thought that every fricking idea that entered his numbskull was revelation?
I can still recall listening to king okie give his 15 minute words of prophecy while at Emporia...he would go on and on and on...........................................and on. :blink:
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dmiller
What was that saying he used to have about *numb-skulls*?
Oh yea --- now I remember!!! ;)
Loose screw en la cabeza!!
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year2027
God first
Beloved GeorgeStGeorge
God loves you my dear friend
The Way Ministry said that only 7 manifestations were available in Old Testament times
but I say all nine were used in Old Testament times
does not a dream of pictures that needed interpretation = dreaming in tongues = speaking in tongues
When these dreams are given a interpretation = dreams with interpretation = tongues with interpretation
So I believe the greater than that came was Christ in us by seed -- rebirth -- while in the old Testaments it was adoption by works but today its adoption by birth
I all so recall written Craig a note telling him its not the God of Abraham, nor the God of VPW but the God of Craig M
then I said VPW is dead and gone the class needs to be remade
He wrote me and told me VPW class was good enough
then a year later he got Revelation to make a new class
Now I was wrong about it once being the God of VPW or the God of Craig
But the point I am making is that my what many of us have wrote Craig over the years has made it become revelation
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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GeorgeStGeorge
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dmiller
Hmmm. That *new light* must've been powerful.
Powerful enough to get the *Deer In The Headlights* effect, from the flock, eh?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Groucho clears throat....
"Know my people that time flies like the wind but fruit flies like bananas"
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Droll, Groucho! just like your namesake. Actually, VP got it from Jack Edwin Stiles and Brian George(or is it
Gregory) Leonard(now taught be Evelyn his widow, living in Texas), who in turn got it from Lester Sumrall and Smith Wigglesworth, plus Dennis and Rita Bennett, Sam Storms, John Ireland, Charles Bryant, John Wimber(once associated with Ted Wise), etc. Where Craig got his version, uuuh. Now, there was an imbecile.
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WordWolf
vpw's version (which was someone else's version with vpw's name on it)
also fit in with his teachings on number in Scripture
(which was Bullinger's version with vpw's name on it.)
7 (Divine Perfection) to 9 (Judgement).
Means judgement's at hand-which it has been since Pentecost.
6 (IMperfection) to 9 (Judgement).
Means God didn't do it right the FIRST time,
and now judgement's at hand.
Probably stems from lcm's inability to understand nuance.
According to the vp system,
a prophet could exercise the manifestation of prophecy
(which works like the modern one.)
or could speak for God to God's people.
If God was designating him to pass along such a message,
then it was "word of knowledge"
(or "word of wisdom", depending on content.)
Despite the name connection, an OT prophet wasn't forced to ONLY
use "prophecy"- he could use the gifts of healings,
or any of the others (if they were around,
which, apparently, tongues was not.)
After Pentecost, they could use all 9.
(Like Agabus, say, from Judea. After Pentecost, he could
use all 9. Doesn't say if he DID use them, but he COULD.)
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sprawled out
anyone know what craigie based his version on? (other than his numbskull?) did he have scriptural rationale? (not that he ever needed it, the wanker!)
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penguin
Sprawled out,
I can't remember what he based it on--he was changing so many other things and terms by that point that good wayfers were just trying to keep up with the new stuff so we didnt get reproved for holding to old wineskins. I could try to look it up-but really dont want to be reminded of the teaching and put that stuff back in my head again. :blink:
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jr4jc
does it matter?!?!?!?? this whole question and i pose this as an answer not a rude insult
if it comes from GOD then it comes from GOD
ie a prophet is one that speaks for GOD< therefore saying what GOD told him to, or what GOD taught HIM too, ie prepared him to.
a prophet / prophecy and revelation [word of wisdom word of knowledge] i see very closely intertwined
i do not think all prophets were walking around, hearing then saying, hearing then saying, i think often they were saying what they had heard---past tense from GOD. still the message is FROM GOD.
alot of what the way did they did to put themselves on a pedestal, ie they didn't do this, but we now do, crap.
instead of humbly and thankfully being in GOD's presence and respecting that GOD was allowing them to take part in what HE was doing.
pride cometh before a fall, and fall they did,
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GeorgeStGeorge
As much as I enjoy a good, spirited debate, I was really only trying to find out what the current status of TWI teaching on the subject was. Penguin summed it up in her(?) first post. If anyone actually knows why LCM changed the doctrine, other than just to show he could, it would be interesting to know that.
George
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penguin
I definitely didnt want to start a debate. That is partly why I gave such a brief answer.
I agree as long as it was God talking, it doesnt matter what we define it as. I spent too much time straining over gnats in twi.
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Oakspear
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Out There
Can I have a LowShunta?
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GeorgeStGeorge
Out There,
Are you asking to be prayed for?
George
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Out There
Not particularly but its never a bad idea..
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Kevlar2000
Sounds like a diet soft drink.
Or a medical procedure.
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