You are gonna get "flamed" in the doctrinal section (and the Politics and tacks forum too) no matter what your position. So just get in there and post your heart away and state your position and have fun discussing it.
It is okay for you to disagree with people and for them to disagree with you.....it is part of life, OUTSIDE OF A CULT
Good grief! I'm sorry you had to lose friends over something like that. Maybe they have no friends when it comes to getting their own way!
For myself, maturing out of cultspeak and cultthink has included listening to others' points of view, and not worrying too much about it if their views differ from mine. Hey, only eternity will tell!
(PS I don't read the doctrinal section but I think you should post away to your heart's content.)
WG
PPS: talk about "just take it on faith, brother!" That's what I ended up doing the last ten years or so I was "in." It does people good to hear others' points of view and consider them, IMO.
quote: But I have to know, are there some here at G.S. that would be so upset I opposed these points that I would get flamed in a post here? I was planning on discussing them in the Doctinal area later this year.
Sure you'll get opposition, but if you post something that disagrees with VPW here, they'll probably make you poster of the month. Some of those people you mentioned don't sound like the kind of friends I'd want to keep.
Lately, I have received some pretty hard-hitting e-mails to the nasty side of left field on things I believe. I openly opposed VPW on some major doctrine and they are the following:
1. The Seed of the Serpent
2. The Unforgivable Sin
3. Christian Possession
4. "Four" Crucified With Christ
5. "Six" Denials of Peter
6. The Lamb of the First Year
7. The Fall of Man
They come from people who for the most part have left the Way a long time ago. But close to home those that I did hang out with me suddenly decided not to. Go figure.
We have to attend other churches to find any kind of Christian fellowship. But I have to know, are there some here at G.S. that would be so upset I opposed these points that I would get flamed in a post here? I was planning on discussing them in the Doctinal area later this year.
Eagle
HI Eagle,
I take it that these hard-hitters are die hard Wierillites. I don't know what it is about these folks, but it seems that VPW/PFAL fans can be some of the most obnoxious people around when it comes to their doctrines. They also seem to be the least able (or willing) to rationally defend or discuss them. Doc Vic said it and that settles it. -- Whatever.
Anyway,
The doctrinal forurn can get pretty tough sometimes. While it is possible that one of our resident VPW/PFAL defenders couild lob a grenade at you, I still think it is worth discussing those kind of things.
Flamed? Maybe. But lately, some of what folks call flaming is nothng more than having an idea disagreed with or challenged. I wouldn't be too concerned about it. Civilized disagreement / debate can sharpen us. It might can also show us where we might have missed something.
For what it's worth, I also disagree with VPW on several of those those items - others I haven't looked into very much but I would certainly like to see how you came to youir conclusions.
I, too have doubts about how we were taught concerning all these major doctrinal topics. It will be good to see other viewpoints.
Goey, I agree. Annoying indeed and some are downright mean if you are not in "the club" who carries the torch of the accuracy of The word like it has not been known since the First Century. (That's full of holes too.)
However, at one time I suppose we may have been that way towards other good and intelligent christians and people who left The Way when we were "believers". Tripped out....remember that awful phrase? So we were no better when we acted accordingly.
It seemed like there may only be a couple that flame me. That is okay. The reason I asked was that if I began posting and got hundreds if not all flaming me rather than intelligent debate or discussion, then it wasn't worth posting.
To be honest, I've even run into a few churches a little like that. Not nearly as bad but just as annoying.
The discussions were taken off my website not for this reason but for reasons of reserving space for future articles. It is turning more into a general Christian site that ultimately talk less about TWI and more of stuff of general Christian concern. But those articles on those subjects are not lost. They are resurfacing again.
I wanted to discuss the doctrinal part here first due to the experience people here had with TWI. It is better input than those who never went through the fire.
I have never posted before, I am a newby, so... I am very interested in hearing your take on these "teachings or beliefs" as you stated. Are you really a conservative talk show host? I listen to 950 KPRC daily. Anyway...are you now involved in a spin off from the Way or a so called "stick twig" as my past Branch Leader called them? If you are, you might still be hearing basically the same teachings as you did in the Way. I have been to one of these for about 8 years off and on and they still call VPW, "Dr." They are affiliated with Chris Geer. I was not "in" the Way, (I put that in quotes, because I supposedly had not joined anything) but for a couple of years. Long enough to take LCM's The Way of Abundance and Power' and the intermediate class also. The fellowship is basically the same format but not all the guilt. Wonderful people who are the ministers though.
If you were in the Way and you questioned any of these topics, you would be confronted and then probably watched and then marked and avoided as my husband was. You would not have them as friends anyway. Are your friends there in only fair weather? God bless your heart.
Didn't you post at least a few of these last year? I definitely remember discussing my views on seed of the serpent, possessed Christians, and four crucified. The originator of that thread got mad at me for stating my views (which pretty much align with TWI in those regards) until I pointed out that he had ASKED for our opinions in the first place! (It was either you or The Evan; you were both using the same avatar back then.)
Don't consider it being "flamed" if someone disagrees with you.
George
P.S. Hi, Countess! Welcome to Greasespot! Have we met?
Countess -- welcome to GreaseSpot. Pull up a chair. :)
From Eagle:
It seemed like there may only be a couple that flame me. That is okay. The reason I asked was that if I began posting and got hundreds if not all flaming me rather than intelligent debate or discussion, then it wasn't worth posting.
To be honest, I've even run into a few churches a little like that. Not nearly as bad but just as annoying.
From my perspective (IMO) -- there is respect for others in the *doctinal dungeon*.
It isn't anywhere near as bad, or intense, as some claim it to be. ;)
Flaming happens, but less so than in other forums here.
Buncha folks there (in doctrinal) who have done their *homework*, and post it.
Others make comments (pro, con, whatever) and conversation can be *lively* at times,
but it is usually done with respect for the other person, even if disagreement is involved.
I can think of 5 or 6 posters, who would cry *FOUL*!!, but most would give you the time of day,
and thank you for what you had to say. :)
Docvic didn't have it all right, and (most) of us here know that.
Looking forward to hear what you have to say.
You've always been quite level-headed in the past, Eagle.
I'm thinking you haven't changed.
I forget who said it -- but the saying comes to mind ---
"Sometimes stirring the soup in a different direction, gives it added flavor".
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dmiller
I'd like to hear what you have to say. :)
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dmiller
Ps -- are these topics on your website??
It's been a while since I was at christian heritage online.
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WordWolf
I'd be interested in seeing it.
I'm taking it as a given that you'll be posting a rationale for each,
and not saying "my opinion is correct and you'll agree or you're an idjit".
I've seen that one before (I forget who did it) and I just skip those threads.
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frank123lol
Hmmm...Seed of the serpent....Proof please?The way made alot of references to an idea that is not
exactly spelt out in black and white.Oh I forgot,you have to be sputualy mature.
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Radar OReilly
Eagle,
You are gonna get "flamed" in the doctrinal section (and the Politics and tacks forum too) no matter what your position. So just get in there and post your heart away and state your position and have fun discussing it.
It is okay for you to disagree with people and for them to disagree with you.....it is part of life, OUTSIDE OF A CULT
Radar
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Watered Garden
Good grief! I'm sorry you had to lose friends over something like that. Maybe they have no friends when it comes to getting their own way!
For myself, maturing out of cultspeak and cultthink has included listening to others' points of view, and not worrying too much about it if their views differ from mine. Hey, only eternity will tell!
(PS I don't read the doctrinal section but I think you should post away to your heart's content.)
WG
PPS: talk about "just take it on faith, brother!" That's what I ended up doing the last ten years or so I was "in." It does people good to hear others' points of view and consider them, IMO.
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johniam
quote: But I have to know, are there some here at G.S. that would be so upset I opposed these points that I would get flamed in a post here? I was planning on discussing them in the Doctinal area later this year.
Sure you'll get opposition, but if you post something that disagrees with VPW here, they'll probably make you poster of the month. Some of those people you mentioned don't sound like the kind of friends I'd want to keep.
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pond
Doctrine
people are serious about Doctrine.
they are indoctrinated!
yeah my vote would you will be "flamed".
why??
because people want validation for what they believe strongly about.. and if that cant happen..
then they get emotional and when that gets out of control then...
call 911.
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dmiller
Imo -- only a couple of posters *flame* in the doctrinal section. :)
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pond
I really do not keep track of who writes what .
so i would not know as well as some , about the labels and such.
I just write for me .
Unity is not on or off my agenda .. in fact i do not have an agenda at all.
Any discussion of political or religous sorts will make for controversy .
If you asking will it get personal??
What exactly are you afraid or cncerned about if you write these letters ?
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templelady
Yeah , you'll get flamed.
Opposing VPW or PFAL has that effect on some people.
But I for one like to hear all viewpoints
Don't always agree with them but like to hear them
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dmiller
Hmmmmmm. ;)
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vickles
Eagle,
Who in the heck cares? :blink:
Go at it and don't care what others think. If they leave you they weren't really your true friends in the first place!!!
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dmiller
Hiya Vickles!! Good to see you again. :)
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Goey
HI Eagle,
I take it that these hard-hitters are die hard Wierillites. I don't know what it is about these folks, but it seems that VPW/PFAL fans can be some of the most obnoxious people around when it comes to their doctrines. They also seem to be the least able (or willing) to rationally defend or discuss them. Doc Vic said it and that settles it. -- Whatever.
Anyway,
The doctrinal forurn can get pretty tough sometimes. While it is possible that one of our resident VPW/PFAL defenders couild lob a grenade at you, I still think it is worth discussing those kind of things.
Flamed? Maybe. But lately, some of what folks call flaming is nothng more than having an idea disagreed with or challenged. I wouldn't be too concerned about it. Civilized disagreement / debate can sharpen us. It might can also show us where we might have missed something.
For what it's worth, I also disagree with VPW on several of those those items - others I haven't looked into very much but I would certainly like to see how you came to youir conclusions.
See ya in doctrinal some time I hope.
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igotout
I, too have doubts about how we were taught concerning all these major doctrinal topics. It will be good to see other viewpoints.
Goey, I agree. Annoying indeed and some are downright mean if you are not in "the club" who carries the torch of the accuracy of The word like it has not been known since the First Century. (That's full of holes too.)
However, at one time I suppose we may have been that way towards other good and intelligent christians and people who left The Way when we were "believers". Tripped out....remember that awful phrase? So we were no better when we acted accordingly.
Glad I have a more sane and open viewpoint now.
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Eagle
Thanks, GS'ers,
It seemed like there may only be a couple that flame me. That is okay. The reason I asked was that if I began posting and got hundreds if not all flaming me rather than intelligent debate or discussion, then it wasn't worth posting.
To be honest, I've even run into a few churches a little like that. Not nearly as bad but just as annoying.
The discussions were taken off my website not for this reason but for reasons of reserving space for future articles. It is turning more into a general Christian site that ultimately talk less about TWI and more of stuff of general Christian concern. But those articles on those subjects are not lost. They are resurfacing again.
I wanted to discuss the doctrinal part here first due to the experience people here had with TWI. It is better input than those who never went through the fire.
Eagle
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dmiller
I (for one) would like to hear about the *6 denials*. :)
Lcm never did explain them very well, while John Shoenheit enumerated them all. :)
(colour me curious -- and NOT a flamer!) ;)
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ex70sHouston
Just let those who are perfect and know everything be the first to flame.
Just be careful are it may be yourself in the flames.
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countess
Good afternoon Eagle,
I have never posted before, I am a newby, so... I am very interested in hearing your take on these "teachings or beliefs" as you stated. Are you really a conservative talk show host? I listen to 950 KPRC daily. Anyway...are you now involved in a spin off from the Way or a so called "stick twig" as my past Branch Leader called them? If you are, you might still be hearing basically the same teachings as you did in the Way. I have been to one of these for about 8 years off and on and they still call VPW, "Dr." They are affiliated with Chris Geer. I was not "in" the Way, (I put that in quotes, because I supposedly had not joined anything) but for a couple of years. Long enough to take LCM's The Way of Abundance and Power' and the intermediate class also. The fellowship is basically the same format but not all the guilt. Wonderful people who are the ministers though.
If you were in the Way and you questioned any of these topics, you would be confronted and then probably watched and then marked and avoided as my husband was. You would not have them as friends anyway. Are your friends there in only fair weather?
God bless your heart.
"The Truth is out there"
In Christ Jesus,
Countess
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GeorgeStGeorge
Eagle,
Didn't you post at least a few of these last year? I definitely remember discussing my views on seed of the serpent, possessed Christians, and four crucified. The originator of that thread got mad at me for stating my views (which pretty much align with TWI in those regards) until I pointed out that he had ASKED for our opinions in the first place! (It was either you or The Evan; you were both using the same avatar back then.)
Don't consider it being "flamed" if someone disagrees with you.
George
P.S. Hi, Countess! Welcome to Greasespot!
Have we met? 
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dmiller
Countess -- welcome to GreaseSpot. Pull up a chair. :)
From my perspective (IMO) -- there is respect for others in the *doctinal dungeon*.
It isn't anywhere near as bad, or intense, as some claim it to be. ;)
Flaming happens, but less so than in other forums here.
Buncha folks there (in doctrinal) who have done their *homework*, and post it.
Others make comments (pro, con, whatever) and conversation can be *lively* at times,
but it is usually done with respect for the other person, even if disagreement is involved.
I can think of 5 or 6 posters, who would cry *FOUL*!!, but most would give you the time of day,
and thank you for what you had to say. :)
Docvic didn't have it all right, and (most) of us here know that.
Looking forward to hear what you have to say.
You've always been quite level-headed in the past, Eagle.
I'm thinking you haven't changed.
I forget who said it -- but the saying comes to mind ---
"Sometimes stirring the soup in a different direction, gives it added flavor".
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washingtonweather
here is a really good book that blows a lot of "way conventions" out of the water.
Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings
eagle - just thought you'd like a little fuel.
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Goey
Here is the original thread Eagle started on this stuff. From 2004
Click Here
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