I agree with this statement. Therebutforgrace, in my opinion, has always been seeking the truth and looking for the bigger picture. All I know right now is what I've read and interpreted what others have written in reaction to a lot of what seems to me edited versions of statements and then read more of people's hurts and opinions.
I am FIRST aghast at the way JS, JL, JB, DG and so forth had openly divulged information, months back on this very forum, that seems to me should have been worked out first in the board meetings before shared with the public, as responsible "leaders" ought to do. This simple action (even though it was months back) has given me the impression that these are self-serving people and definitely untrustworthy.
Second, I am irritated that the people who moderate this forum have edited and deleted a couple of my previous postings, which to me seems like censorship and creepy. This also gives me the impression that something devious and dishonest is going on here, and that if there are "sides" to be picked that this forum has been all about one side and the "moderators" are trying to cover something up or hide information from truth-seekers. AND it's apparently okay to put up a disgusting and not funny picture of spiders crawling out of KG's nose but NOT okay for me to express how I feel about what has been written?! GIMME A BREAK!
I hate the word leader. Leaders are SERVANTS in the eyes of God.
YOUR AGHAST???? at what ? the fact truth was revealed about this ministry, your more comfortble with keeping it inside those closed doors, where the leaders you put on a high place can handle it and just allow everyone eles know about the conclusion they put together on what must have been happening!! and for those who didnt agree will they are gone now and should not be addressed and hopefully silent.
yeah indeed truth and revelation of truth is icky and sticky and we the common man should not go to that place without their leadership making sure we understand ONLY after they decide what it must be for us.
you read like those who still wanna be a elite and if not at least by all means do what is needed to protect them, from you know those regular folks who give them money.
you still have a cult like mind and thoughts.
as predictable as the moon comes out at night then you attack thae source that causes you such truama to your thinking and greas spot MUST be a evil evil place for even thinking of allowing THAT to happen.
I never saw a picture of KG with spiders coming out of her nose where is it?
are you now lying? anything to keep the idea that these guys are special and above the common mans thoughts or words.
YOUR AGHAST???? at what ? the fact truth was revealed about this ministry, your more comfortble with keeping it inside those closed doors, where the leaders you put on a high place can handle it and just allow everyone eles know about the conclusion they put together on what must have been happening!! and for those who didnt agree will they are gone now and should not be addressed and hopefully silent.
yeah indeed truth and revelation of truth is icky and sticky and we the common man should not go to that place without their leadership making sure we understand ONLY after they decide what it must be for us.
you read like those who still wanna be a elite and if not at least by all means do what is needed to protect them, from you know those regular folks who give them money.
you still have a cult like mind and thoughts.
as predictable as the moon comes out at night then you attack thae source that causes you such truama to your thinking and greas spot MUST be a evil evil place for even thinking of allowing THAT to happen.
I never saw a picture of KG with spiders coming out of her nose where is it?
are you now lying? anything to keep the idea that these guys are special and above the common mans thoughts or words.
why? what is yOUR investment in this?
Good question. What is my investment? I guess to find more truths and only say what I feel, which is apparently not so acceptable here. Paw, you are a great moderator and I've some old info and a moderator removed that picture. Also, I never said greasepot was evil, or that the truth should be hidden, or that I feel these people are elite. NEVER. I'm just going on impression and other people's reactions and documents I read (not months ago, but last month), and these were formulated from being "censored" and having, what seems to me, a one sided story. But if the "other" side wishes to stay out of this then no one can be forced to defend themselves.
you think it should have been worked out in the board meeting BEFORE sharing with the public.
sounds elitist
the fact they openly divulged information and it makes you aghast!
sounds like elitism to me .
I get my impession from what you wrote , im glad you recognized the error in the picture about spiders comment, that was honest when push comes to shove.
forced to defend one self is a victims mentality and i really do not think this web site is doing any more than giving another side of the story... now answering questions about what they have done or said NOW THAT may be the real problem ya think?
and your right they can not be forced to do that either can they?
forced to defend one self is a victims mentality and i really do not think this web site is doing any more than giving another side of the story... now answering questions about what they have done or said NOW THAT may be the real problem ya think?
and your right they can not be forced to do that either can they?
I guess we'll never really know exactly what happened or what was said except what we can get from what they give us, which will probably not be enough since we weren't actually there. Also, seems like people have formulated their opinions, and I guess I haven't quite and so am looking for more. Have a great weekend.
We will never "know" everything about anything. But I am looking for fruit. When you look at fruit, it doesn't matter if the tree is misshapen, or the bark is peeling. If the fruit is good, you have a good tree. If the fruit is bad, you decide if you want to cut the tree down and burn it or feed it what it may be lacking.
I think it is very good that things have been brought out of the shadows and posted here. Initially, I was told the controversy was merely about Mark firing Dan. But I knew something else was going on because I was getting poor communication from the CES Home Office. Turned out Jeff was gone, too!
When I read Elizabeth Lynn's letter, I could see that a lot more was wrong. Everyone needs to take a look [sorry, Momentus phrase]. By the way, if you haven't read that letter, you are missing a LOT of bad fruit!
I guess we'll never really know exactly what happened or what was said except what we can get from what they give us, which will probably not be enough since we weren't actually there. Also, seems like people have formulated their opinions, and I guess I haven't quite and so am looking for more. Have a great weekend.
Peace out!
Gomer - i would have been comfortable if they waited for the board meeting to figure out exactly 'what the ____ was going on and what to do about it' and then put out some statement or something, but looks like people were fired / forced / resigned at least many weeks back and no notification (?). I think people supporting the ministry should have had some kind of notification that the CEO was fired for sure.
As for some of the other stuff I guess they had to wait until the board meeting (not sure?) to have everybody choose their actions and make them official before it would have made sense.
I do feel after reading through the docs, the threads, the comments and talking to people by phone that there has been just a ton of glossing over other situations that would have been a DEAD GIVEAWAY to many that can still smell 'cult' a mile away. It's like when you quit smoking all of a sudden you get super spidey sense of smell when people a mile away smoke.
That's why it's a bit of a shock to me that some of the folks on the BOD are shocked / taken aback (and I truly believe they are) by what's happening now because people have raised these concerns for some time.
I think, instead, the instruction is to SERVE them.
As I've said before, we who choose to follow the Bible need to look at the fruit that is on the tree (not what is coming next season, what is here today) to see if any of these brothers/sisters in Christ meet the qualities GOD tells us that His leaders must meet.....I and II Timothy is clear. When I see repentance and humility in one/any of these folks...when I see any of them living up to the standards of I and II Timothy, I will then consider thinking about being wiling to consider thinking about whether or not I might want to support their teaching
ODDLY ENOUGH, THESE WERE THE SAME WORDS THAT WERE USED ON US TO COACH US TO GO TO AN OFFSHOOT HERE IN INDY THAT USED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH JL AND LATER CES MEMBERS.
RESULT? COUPLE RUNNING IT HAD A COUNSEL TOO EVERY SUNDAY AFTER CHURCH SERVICE. ONLY THEY WENT TO A RESTAURANT AND SAT AROUND AND TALKED ABOUT THE PEOPLE COMING TO THEIR CHURCH, MOSTLY EX-WAY. OUTSIDE OF THE AFTER CHURCH COUNSEL MEETING, THE WIFE WOULD TALK ABOUT SUSIE TO JEANING AND JEANIE TO BILLY AND BILLY TO DEANNA AND DEANNA (FICTICIOUS NAMES)TO SUSIE AND THE HUSBAND WOULD CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHEN HE GOT TOGETHER TO HAVE COFFEE WITH "FRIENDS."
IRONICALLY, THEY ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT BEING YOUR FRIEND.
AFTER READING ALL OF THESE THREADS, THE FRUIT SMELLS VERY SIMILAR TO THE CES BOD.
...maybe if so many "Christians" were not so gee-dammm fuhh-reakking busy trying to run everybody else's lives, they might be a lot happier and not so stinking naaa-asssty all the dammm time....
Life is too short to spend in an organization where nobody is allowed to mind their own business...that's what really chaps my arse about these cults...I recall vividly when these buffoons tried to recruit me and get me to take momentus...
...At first they "love bombed" me...I recognized this tactic immediately and with the help of google, started looking at the "other side" of CES and especially momentus...one lady in particular (who will remain nameless), sweet talked me and kept trying to get me to take momentus...when I finally told her "no"...she then showed her true colors. She literally screamed at me over the phone "WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO HIDE???"...I responded by telling her..."I believe you have it backwards, why do YOU have to pry? My personal life is none of your damn business!"...I hung up and that was my last encounter with anyone from CES...
...and now we see the fruit of this "prying cult". Everybody is trying to stick their noses in everbody elses business...dream prophesies that break up marriages, continual confrontations, confessing their sins to each other, airing their dirty laundry out in public for the sake of "cleansing" themselves, kicking each other out of the lifeboat, etc. etc. etc...
Dysfunctional at best, these "chosen ones" have bitten and devoured each other and are now like the animal who chews his own foot off to escape the trap...I say they are insecure and pitiful...nothing more than pretend Christians who are so obsessed with their own self importance that, in their efforts to walk on water, they have slipped into the quicksand and are up to their necks in it.
...am I bitter?...not really, I simply believe that somebody needs to call bullsh* t on these weirdos because they deserve it...AND they are hurting people.
...and as far as the sincere followers of CES?...Fool me once (twi), shame on you...fool me twice (ces), shame on me. If you have "hung your hat" on this bunch...well you really should have known better.
Life is too short to spend in an organization where nobody is allowed to mind their own business...that's what really chaps my arse about these cults...I recall vividly when these buffoons tried to recruit me and get me to take momentus...
...At first they "love bombed" me...I recognized this tactic immediately and with the help of google, started looking at the "other side" of CES and especially momentus...one lady in particular (who will remain nameless), sweet talked me and kept trying to get me to take momentus...when I finally told her "no"...she then showed her true colors. She literally screamed at me over the phone "WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO HIDE???"...I responded by telling her..."I believe you have it backwards, why do YOU have to pry? My personal life is none of your damn business!"...I hung up and that was my last encounter with anyone from CES...
...and now we see the fruit of this "prying cult". Everybody is trying to stick their noses in everbody elses business...dream prophesies that break up marriages, continual confrontations, confessing their sins to each other, airing their dirty laundry out in public for the sake of "cleansing" themselves, kicking each other out of the lifeboat, etc. etc. etc...
Absolutely....!!!!!
THAT'S what bugs the crap outta me about their PRYING. One of my close friends has said NO.....time and time and time again.
JAL keeps pushing and pushing and pusing momentus.........in one of "his public confessions" JAL has openly admitted to SIXTEEN AFFAIRS during his twi days.
Now, tell me..........why do we NEED to see JAL's laundry?????? Why is JAL openly admitting this stuff?? Is there really any profit in it.???????
JAL keeps pushing and pushing and pusing momentus.........in one of "his public confessions" JAL has openly admitted to SIXTEEN AFFAIRS during his twi days.
wow it went from 0 to 1 (ask dot matrix) to 16 !!!!!!!
wow it went from 0 to 1 (ask dot matrix) to 16 !!!!!!!
exie,
According to a reliable source.....this was JAL's open confession. Why he would want to publically admit this??.......I really don't know. And really, I don't care.
I just don't like to see MANIPULATION and PRYING.......
Can't these "leaders" just leave people alone??????????
The training involves all parts of your life: intellectual, emotional, physical, and spiritual. At times, participants experience thoughts, feelings, or sensations that they may not have explored thoroughly before. This is a fascinating journey for most participants, but it may include a high degree of personal challenge. In preparing yourself for the training, consider the consequences of confronting your life head-on, and make your decision to participate accordingly.
a testimony from momentus site
I tended to judge people, not serve them. Then I realized in which way I related with my sons: as a "teacher"- I taught them all the time, but I didn't love and support them. God showed me that, before serving others, I had to look at myself with honesty. Courage, freedom, love for others…
But please remember when ever a great MOG has an affair it is because of those evil possessed women make them drop their pants and do the dirty deed.
Just as JAL went from 0 to 1 to 16 because his eyes were closed when this happened and the spirits made him forget it happened,( kind of like coyote ugly, can't seem to recall why my arm is chewed off) just as it took the great research guru researching adultery to see the light (just like Loy, getting caught sucks)!
Now just cause they can't even run their own home office and its not their fault they slipped and fell into spread legs doesn't mean they aren't more spiritual than you will ever be.
Please send donations to keep this great "package" available!
Oh and curse you Groucho, CES with a STFI doesn't promote that program any more; that is so "90's" dude, get with it!
Oh and curse you Groucho, CES with a STFI doesn't promote that program any more; that is so "90's" dude, get with it!
Maybe they don't promote it anymore...but that's only because of the negative feedback and bad publicity it generated. On a personal level, both JAL and Shoenheit told me personally that they thought it was a great training program...and this was AFTER they stopped promoting it publicly.
I think that pointing out CES's involvement with momentus is a good example of their "blown about with every wind of doctrine" approach that they take to seeking spiritual "truth".
I suppose that graduating from momentus to dream prophesies was an improvement?
Maybe they don't promote it anymore...but that's only because of the negative feedback and bad publicity it generated. On a personal level, both JAL and Shoenheit told me personally that they thought it was a great training program...and this was AFTER they stopped promoting it publicly.
I think that pointing out CES's involvement with momentus is a good example of their "blown about with every wind of doctrine" approach that they take to seeking spiritual "truth".
I suppose that graduating from momentus to dream prophesies was an improvement?
The blind leading the blind...
it has nothing to do with feed back I think they were threatened to be sued.. if they keep promoting it from people who got damaged from it and took it on their advice.
Dysfunctional at best, these "chosen ones" have bitten and devoured each other and are now like the animal who chews his own foot off to escape the trap...
Groucho, I think it's more like it chewed off three legs, and its still stuck..
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
13
9
9
9
Popular Days
Jan 16
66
Jan 17
32
Jan 19
18
Jan 18
17
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 13 posts
skyrider 9 posts
Tzaia 9 posts
Tom Strange 9 posts
Popular Days
Jan 16 2007
66 posts
Jan 17 2007
32 posts
Jan 19 2007
18 posts
Jan 18 2007
17 posts
pond
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Go easy on the staff today. The night shift had it rough last night.
And, Mr. Pyle, you might want to read the rules of the forums or PM Paw if you have a problem.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
gomer
Good question. What is my investment? I guess to find more truths and only say what I feel, which is apparently not so acceptable here. Paw, you are a great moderator and I've some old info and a moderator removed that picture. Also, I never said greasepot was evil, or that the truth should be hidden, or that I feel these people are elite. NEVER. I'm just going on impression and other people's reactions and documents I read (not months ago, but last month), and these were formulated from being "censored" and having, what seems to me, a one sided story. But if the "other" side wishes to stay out of this then no one can be forced to defend themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pond
you think it should have been worked out in the board meeting BEFORE sharing with the public.
sounds elitist
the fact they openly divulged information and it makes you aghast!
sounds like elitism to me .
I get my impession from what you wrote , im glad you recognized the error in the picture about spiders comment, that was honest when push comes to shove.
forced to defend one self is a victims mentality and i really do not think this web site is doing any more than giving another side of the story... now answering questions about what they have done or said NOW THAT may be the real problem ya think?
and your right they can not be forced to do that either can they?
Edited by pondLink to comment
Share on other sites
gomer
I guess we'll never really know exactly what happened or what was said except what we can get from what they give us, which will probably not be enough since we weren't actually there. Also, seems like people have formulated their opinions, and I guess I haven't quite and so am looking for more. Have a great weekend.
Peace out!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
richnchrispy
We will never "know" everything about anything. But I am looking for fruit. When you look at fruit, it doesn't matter if the tree is misshapen, or the bark is peeling. If the fruit is good, you have a good tree. If the fruit is bad, you decide if you want to cut the tree down and burn it or feed it what it may be lacking.
I think it is very good that things have been brought out of the shadows and posted here. Initially, I was told the controversy was merely about Mark firing Dan. But I knew something else was going on because I was getting poor communication from the CES Home Office. Turned out Jeff was gone, too!
When I read Elizabeth Lynn's letter, I could see that a lot more was wrong. Everyone needs to take a look [sorry, Momentus phrase]. By the way, if you haven't read that letter, you are missing a LOT of bad fruit!
Chrispy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
1broken1
Gomer - i would have been comfortable if they waited for the board meeting to figure out exactly 'what the ____ was going on and what to do about it' and then put out some statement or something, but looks like people were fired / forced / resigned at least many weeks back and no notification (?). I think people supporting the ministry should have had some kind of notification that the CEO was fired for sure.
As for some of the other stuff I guess they had to wait until the board meeting (not sure?) to have everybody choose their actions and make them official before it would have made sense.
I do feel after reading through the docs, the threads, the comments and talking to people by phone that there has been just a ton of glossing over other situations that would have been a DEAD GIVEAWAY to many that can still smell 'cult' a mile away. It's like when you quit smoking all of a sudden you get super spidey sense of smell when people a mile away smoke.
That's why it's a bit of a shock to me that some of the folks on the BOD are shocked / taken aback (and I truly believe they are) by what's happening now because people have raised these concerns for some time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WOG
ODDLY ENOUGH, THESE WERE THE SAME WORDS THAT WERE USED ON US TO COACH US TO GO TO AN OFFSHOOT HERE IN INDY THAT USED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH JL AND LATER CES MEMBERS.
RESULT? COUPLE RUNNING IT HAD A COUNSEL TOO EVERY SUNDAY AFTER CHURCH SERVICE. ONLY THEY WENT TO A RESTAURANT AND SAT AROUND AND TALKED ABOUT THE PEOPLE COMING TO THEIR CHURCH, MOSTLY EX-WAY. OUTSIDE OF THE AFTER CHURCH COUNSEL MEETING, THE WIFE WOULD TALK ABOUT SUSIE TO JEANING AND JEANIE TO BILLY AND BILLY TO DEANNA AND DEANNA (FICTICIOUS NAMES)TO SUSIE AND THE HUSBAND WOULD CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHEN HE GOT TOGETHER TO HAVE COFFEE WITH "FRIENDS."
IRONICALLY, THEY ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT BEING YOUR FRIEND.
AFTER READING ALL OF THESE THREADS, THE FRUIT SMELLS VERY SIMILAR TO THE CES BOD.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
christians can be so naaaasty
Link to comment
Share on other sites
alfakat
...maybe if so many "Christians" were not so gee-dammm fuhh-reakking busy trying to run everybody else's lives, they might be a lot happier and not so stinking naaa-asssty all the dammm time....
just a thought...
:beer: :B) :B) :D :P
Edited by alfakatLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haa ha haha hahahah
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Was this a Board meeting or a BORED MEETING?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Life is too short to spend in an organization where nobody is allowed to mind their own business...that's what really chaps my arse about these cults...I recall vividly when these buffoons tried to recruit me and get me to take momentus...
...At first they "love bombed" me...I recognized this tactic immediately and with the help of google, started looking at the "other side" of CES and especially momentus...one lady in particular (who will remain nameless), sweet talked me and kept trying to get me to take momentus...when I finally told her "no"...she then showed her true colors. She literally screamed at me over the phone "WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO HIDE???"...I responded by telling her..."I believe you have it backwards, why do YOU have to pry? My personal life is none of your damn business!"...I hung up and that was my last encounter with anyone from CES...
...and now we see the fruit of this "prying cult". Everybody is trying to stick their noses in everbody elses business...dream prophesies that break up marriages, continual confrontations, confessing their sins to each other, airing their dirty laundry out in public for the sake of "cleansing" themselves, kicking each other out of the lifeboat, etc. etc. etc...
Dysfunctional at best, these "chosen ones" have bitten and devoured each other and are now like the animal who chews his own foot off to escape the trap...I say they are insecure and pitiful...nothing more than pretend Christians who are so obsessed with their own self importance that, in their efforts to walk on water, they have slipped into the quicksand and are up to their necks in it.
...am I bitter?...not really, I simply believe that somebody needs to call bullsh* t on these weirdos because they deserve it...AND they are hurting people.
...and as far as the sincere followers of CES?...Fool me once (twi), shame on you...fool me twice (ces), shame on me. If you have "hung your hat" on this bunch...well you really should have known better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ohhhhhhh but they were the true ministry
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Absolutely....!!!!!
THAT'S what bugs the crap outta me about their PRYING. One of my close friends has said NO.....time and time and time again.
JAL keeps pushing and pushing and pusing momentus.........in one of "his public confessions" JAL has openly admitted to SIXTEEN AFFAIRS during his twi days.
Now, tell me..........why do we NEED to see JAL's laundry?????? Why is JAL openly admitting this stuff?? Is there really any profit in it.???????
Uuuuuuuuugh........quit pushing momentus, JAL.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
wow it went from 0 to 1 (ask dot matrix) to 16 !!!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
exie,
According to a reliable source.....this was JAL's open confession. Why he would want to publically admit this??.......I really don't know. And really, I don't care.
I just don't like to see MANIPULATION and PRYING.......
Can't these "leaders" just leave people alone??????????
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i'm totally with you sky
i could not care less
it's just so weird that they have this thing about..... well whatever.....
STF
STAY THE F (out) ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
maybe the STFI board should take this class
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ductape
But please remember when ever a great MOG has an affair it is because of those evil possessed women make them drop their pants and do the dirty deed.
Just as JAL went from 0 to 1 to 16 because his eyes were closed when this happened and the spirits made him forget it happened,( kind of like coyote ugly, can't seem to recall why my arm is chewed off) just as it took the great research guru researching adultery to see the light (just like Loy, getting caught sucks)!
Now just cause they can't even run their own home office and its not their fault they slipped and fell into spread legs doesn't mean they aren't more spiritual than you will ever be.
Please send donations to keep this great "package" available!
Oh and curse you Groucho, CES with a STFI doesn't promote that program any more; that is so "90's" dude, get with it!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Maybe they don't promote it anymore...but that's only because of the negative feedback and bad publicity it generated. On a personal level, both JAL and Shoenheit told me personally that they thought it was a great training program...and this was AFTER they stopped promoting it publicly.
I think that pointing out CES's involvement with momentus is a good example of their "blown about with every wind of doctrine" approach that they take to seeking spiritual "truth".
I suppose that graduating from momentus to dream prophesies was an improvement?
The blind leading the blind...
Edited by GrouchoMarxJrLink to comment
Share on other sites
pond
it has nothing to do with feed back I think they were threatened to be sued.. if they keep promoting it from people who got damaged from it and took it on their advice.
it is all about safe guarding the money.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Groucho, I think it's more like it chewed off three legs, and its still stuck..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Maybe momentus had a higher volume rate in the 90s..........but I can tell you for a fact that its STILL being pushed by JAL in 2006.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.