I know a number of young men and women going in residence and who are now Way Corps. A number of them admit there are problems with the organization of The Way. Their idea now is to lie low, learn as much good from those currently "in power", and change things in the future. (since they obviously won't accomplish much now).
Does anyone think that they are either courageous or are setting out on a fruitless endeavor?
"You can't make a silk purse out of a sows' ear."
It may be an old fashioned saying but it still rings true.
It is possible to be BOTh courageous AND on a fruitless endeavor.
Just ask any of us who have been there.
No matter how devoted these kids are, they're not going to be able to fix TWI. A much better use of their time (not to mention their youth) would be for them to go to a REAL SEMINARY somewhere, and learn to be REAL PASTORS and MINISTERS, and lead real churches.
Any capitals are used for emphasis, and not to indicate that I'm shouting. I'm not shouting. But speaking as someone who gave my youth to TWI, I hope that they don't make the same mistake.
Corps - if you're reading this thread, learn from our mistakes. Our mistake was in trusting TWI with OUR LIVES. You only get one time around; make some real difference with it. That's not going to be with TWI.
I know a number of us have delayed our dreams for a decade because we were taught all the time that Way Corps was the only way to make a difference. I see young people still grappling with this issue. Knowing what they want to do with their life but forcing themselves to believe they are Way Corps bound.
No matter how devoted these kids are, they're not going to be able to fix TWI. A much better use of their time (not to mention their youth) would be for them to go to a REAL SEMINARY somewhere, and learn to be REAL PASTORS and MINISTERS, and lead real churches.
I totally agree with this sentiment! It is a noble thought but TWI isn't going to change any time soon. I hope they don't waste their young lives on this endeavor.
I know a number of us have delayed our dreams for a decade because we were taught all the time that Way Corps was the only way to make a difference. I see young people still grappling with this issue. Knowing what they want to do with their life but forcing themselves to believe they are Way Corps bound.
Get out now. You have already "delayed your dreams for a decade." Many of us, myself included, have already tried that route. As a result, I "delayed my dreams" for nearly 25 years, trying to "fix The Way" probably at a much higher level than you-- repeatedly-- and failed. Now I'm over 50 years old trying to pursue College degrees I should have finished in my 20's. You want to wait that long? It's time to learn from those who have been there and tried it before.
The Word says that if a ruler hearkens to lies, all his advisors are evil. You're not going to change anything there. The organization is so corrupt, it needs to be scrapped.
Learn now, or learn later. It's your life to waste, but you will never get back lost time.
I know a number of young men and women going in residence and who are now Way Corps. A number of them admit there are problems with the organization of The Way. Their idea now is to lie low, learn as much good from those currently "in power", and change things in the future. (since they obviously won't accomplish much now).
Does anyone think that they are either courageous or are setting out on a fruitless endeavor?
Amen and amen to those who say it's a fruitless endeavor, with the added waste of your own years added into the waste that has gone before you.
My mom used to tell me, "If you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas."
This is true with lying down with the dogs in twi.
The filth of that place will be on anyone who sleeps in that place, and can take years to wash off.
And there is the added risk that one might find themselves/yourself enjoying the filth [for a season] and turn their/your heart away from the Lord you right now so want to serve. (I personally feel this may be the case with lcm.)
There are some good places to go to study and learn with men and women who are godly and who live godly lives. There are other options to pursue a life with the Lord.
I recommend investigating the options before committing oneself: Looking at other disciples from the different programs, the fruit in their lives, and deciding what kind of a personality development one wants to encourage in one's life.
Any field of endeavor requires choices made: a person in sports decides to pursue a healthy life-style with integrity, or use drugs to achieve an "easier" result, with consequences of long-lasting physical and possible judicial consequences. So a person who pursues a life with the Lord must make choices of integrity, or expedience, and those choices will have consequences into eternity.
A sports figure may use drugs and dishonesty and fool the officials and the fans, but teammates will know, and so will he/she.
A person who pursues a life with the Lord cannot hide from Him, and the judgment of our lives will be Just and Right altogether.
Hoping for a good time at the judgment seat of Christ,
You are in a tough spot not of your making but I have some advice for you. You now have a family of your own and recognize the problems with TWI even at your young age. You're obviously intelligent and discerning. But some of the most miserable people in the world are intelligent and discerning because they lack wisdom of what to *DO* with their knowledge.
Here's my advice.. you want your kids growing up to know their grandparents. Why, even YOU want to maintain a relationship with your TWI parents, right? Then keep your mouth shut about what you know and/or suspect about TWI with them. They'll be disappointed that you aren't fellowshipping with "The Ministry" but as long as you aren't disparaging TWI, things can be cool between you all.
Remember that its NOT lying to tell only part of the truth. You can give your parents all kinds of reasons for not taking part in TWI activities that are true without telling them your biggest concerns that might drive a wedge between ya'll. For instance, you could say that you just feel more comfortable in another church or fellowship plain and simple. Or that the new church/fellowship/circle-of-friends/or whatever is so much more convenient.
In other words, Bolshivek, do your own thing and just refuse to discuss TWI in any meaningful way with your parents no matter how hard they press you. Say you are uncomfortable discussing it (true) or that you are simply weighing your life options. You know your parents better than I.. but if you let them get you upset and mad... you'll say things that will severely impact your family. DON'T LET THEM GOAD YOU into discussing your current religious beliefs.
I know a number of young men and women going in residence and who are now Way Corps. A number of them admit there are problems with the organization of The Way. Their idea now is to lie low, learn as much good from those currently "in power", and change things in the future. (since they obviously won't accomplish much now).
Does anyone think that they are either courageous or are setting out on a fruitless endeavor?
Did Jesus "lay low" or did he get in the face of the religious hypocrites of his day? Did he not teach his followers to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees?
I fear that the "good" they are seeking to learn will be tainted with insidious evil until they become what they now see is wrong.
...we were taught all the time that Way Corps was the only way to make a difference.
This is probably the biggest lie that was ever promulgated by TWI.
I know a number of young men and women going in residence and who are now Way Corps. A number of them admit there are problems with the organization of The Way. Their idea now is to lie low, learn as much good from those currently "in power", and change things in the future. (since they obviously won't accomplish much now).
Does anyone think that they are either courageous or are setting out on a fruitless endeavor?
I tried this once in an offshoot. It didn't go well to say the least.
Ultimately, to go into an organization with the intent of a non-hostile takeover has an element of dishonesty to it. If nothing else, these kids will be put in situations that challenge their loyalty to the cult - and they will be discovered. Even if they can pull it off - I would think that the price is too high.
They will have to find a way to deal with both not being true to themselves and being dishonest with God. The energy that it takes to maintain that level of stealth is enormous and it will suck the life out of them. TWI has taken too much from too many - why add to the toll?
Just what will happen when one of them finds themselves in a "motorcoach" situation????
So they want to learn the "good." MY advice to these courageous kids is to find another way. Why does TWI have to be saved??? Why not just serve God and follow where He leads?
Some of us posting were Corps and we know how the experience can change a person. - Take it from me - there are better and kinder ways to accomplish a positive change. The negative change should be avoided entirely. While it can be avoided while in residence, there is a lot of "soul patching" that has to be done.
Trying to "fix" the Way is ill-advised. Think about it - if the fixer is the only one who thinks something broken, how can it get repaired? If we're talking a flat tire, no biggie. The tire's flat, it has no choice, it gets plugged, gets air, it's back on the road.
Simple analolgy but common sense has to prevail there, no one's gong to try and drive a car on a flat tire and no one's going to say it's not flat when it is.
Compare that to the Way and trying to fix it.
Change the tire...a phrase meant to change out the old one for a new one. Again, common sense prevails. You can only plug a tire so many times.
What's missing in the Way/fix it scenario is communication and a common desire between those involved to look at ideas, issues, questions, problems and at least discuss them and consider them. If the Way side figures "we're right" entertaining any of that will be seen as a weakness, a problem, wrong. You become the problem, not a participant helping it to get better.
And what's missing is that people aren't tires of course. We break, get fixed, over and over. As long as we keep trying and working we always have the hope of getting better, at the least. We're always worth the effort because there's only one of each of us, there aren't replacements available.
What some of these people (and I'm surmising here so bear with me) may be considering is a little more ghoulish, so to speak. They may be thinking if they're in place in the Way, present and accounted for, eventually the current generation will die and they'll move along up and down the ladder.
Okay, that's an option, and inevitably that's going to happen if we are all here long enough. But that in my mind isn't "fixing' the Way.
Everything was grand and glorious in the promised land, "WE" were the problem, so they got rid of a lot of us. Then they got rid of LCM, "HE" was the problem and everything was going to get "right-as-rain" and now they have new corps holding out until things get better or they will be able to "FIX" TWI?
Could it be that we weren't the problem? Could it be LCM was only the tip of the iceburg as far as what the problem was/is? Could it be the whole thing is a train wreck and always has been? If the good old TWI was the unbroken standard I could tell you where some VPW worshiping and quoting folks hang out calling all who post here possessed or over medicated because we accept the testimonies against their hero elder. Yes, we "hear" a word against he that betrayed us with his sexual perversion.
Perhaps serving the Lord should become the priority.
Matthew 9:17 Â Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mark 2:22 Â And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luke 5:37 Â And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luke 5:38 Â But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
I think the Word speaks for itself on this issue. They have too many old wine skins. Isn't it more important to function within the Body of Christ and not the body of TWI. Why make it so difficult. The fact that someone recognizes error & feels uncomfortable about it speaks volumes. Where is God in the picture here and what does he want.
1 Timothy 2:4 Â Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
You don't have to be part of TWI to recognize and help people do this...............as we have all learned over the years. We have organizations coming out of our ears, don't need them, there is only one true organization & God is the head of Christ & Christ is the head of the church. Could it be any simplier. Thank the Lord...........
I was apprentice corps (for the second time). All my fellow apprentice corps and myself, along with doing manual labor at the Area Leaders house, papers and 'learning to write letters' were determined to change the ministry as well and make a difference. We were going to buckle down, stake ourselves out like one of those Native American warriors and fight the good fight of faith. We were willing to take a ministry from the secondary will of God and help it move into the being in the PRIMARY will of God.
That year was 198-1987. What year is it now?
There is the answer.
A friend of mine got courageous and came to my door. I lived with the branch leaders. This was just after I had prayed heavily to God about all the problems TWI was having, had had and was continuing to have. I asked him what to do. He said, "Dont' go into the Corps, talk to soandso." She was the very one who banged on my door hours later. She hoisted up her body and said I was just praying and if you repeat this, I will kill you but God told me to tell you not to go into the Corps.
I said, "Wow, then it was God who told me earlier not to go in."
See I had doubted myself. She almost melted into a pool of relief. She was expecting a much worse reaction from me.
So from years gone by, twenty years and from a little town called El Cajon through realistic courageous acts, I repeat, "Don't go into the Corps and if you're there, get out now and start your life the way God would have you to do so."
The only way that the lay low strategy makes sense is if TWI is "THE" household of God, like they promote. If it is so screwed up that it requires a covert operation to fix it, then maybe it isn't worth fixing...ya think?
A "Far Side" cartoon comes to mind, in which a dog and his owner are driving away in a car; the dog sticks his head out of the window and says something like this to his buddy,
"I'm a lucky dog! I'm going to the vet to get tutored!"
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waysider
"You can't make a silk purse out of a sows' ear."
It may be an old fashioned saying but it still rings true.
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Jim
Fruitless endeavor.
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Bolshevik
Is it possible to "fix" The Way?
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notinKansasanymore
It is possible to be BOTh courageous AND on a fruitless endeavor.
Just ask any of us who have been there.
No matter how devoted these kids are, they're not going to be able to fix TWI. A much better use of their time (not to mention their youth) would be for them to go to a REAL SEMINARY somewhere, and learn to be REAL PASTORS and MINISTERS, and lead real churches.
Any capitals are used for emphasis, and not to indicate that I'm shouting. I'm not shouting. But speaking as someone who gave my youth to TWI, I hope that they don't make the same mistake.
Corps - if you're reading this thread, learn from our mistakes. Our mistake was in trusting TWI with OUR LIVES. You only get one time around; make some real difference with it. That's not going to be with TWI.
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Bolshevik
I know a number of us have delayed our dreams for a decade because we were taught all the time that Way Corps was the only way to make a difference. I see young people still grappling with this issue. Knowing what they want to do with their life but forcing themselves to believe they are Way Corps bound.
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Eyesopen
I totally agree with this sentiment! It is a noble thought but TWI isn't going to change any time soon. I hope they don't waste their young lives on this endeavor.
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coolchef
kansas
you're advise is right on
if anyone thinks they have a calling they should persue it at a ligit place of learning
not in a corn field
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Catcup
Get out now. You have already "delayed your dreams for a decade." Many of us, myself included, have already tried that route. As a result, I "delayed my dreams" for nearly 25 years, trying to "fix The Way" probably at a much higher level than you-- repeatedly-- and failed. Now I'm over 50 years old trying to pursue College degrees I should have finished in my 20's. You want to wait that long? It's time to learn from those who have been there and tried it before.
The Word says that if a ruler hearkens to lies, all his advisors are evil. You're not going to change anything there. The organization is so corrupt, it needs to be scrapped.
Learn now, or learn later. It's your life to waste, but you will never get back lost time.
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Kit Sober
My mom used to tell me, "If you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas."
This is true with lying down with the dogs in twi.
The filth of that place will be on anyone who sleeps in that place, and can take years to wash off.
And there is the added risk that one might find themselves/yourself enjoying the filth [for a season] and turn their/your heart away from the Lord you right now so want to serve. (I personally feel this may be the case with lcm.)
There are some good places to go to study and learn with men and women who are godly and who live godly lives. There are other options to pursue a life with the Lord.
I recommend investigating the options before committing oneself: Looking at other disciples from the different programs, the fruit in their lives, and deciding what kind of a personality development one wants to encourage in one's life.
Any field of endeavor requires choices made: a person in sports decides to pursue a healthy life-style with integrity, or use drugs to achieve an "easier" result, with consequences of long-lasting physical and possible judicial consequences. So a person who pursues a life with the Lord must make choices of integrity, or expedience, and those choices will have consequences into eternity.
A sports figure may use drugs and dishonesty and fool the officials and the fans, but teammates will know, and so will he/she.
A person who pursues a life with the Lord cannot hide from Him, and the judgment of our lives will be Just and Right altogether.
Hoping for a good time at the judgment seat of Christ,
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Sudo
Bolshevik,
You are in a tough spot not of your making but I have some advice for you. You now have a family of your own and recognize the problems with TWI even at your young age. You're obviously intelligent and discerning. But some of the most miserable people in the world are intelligent and discerning because they lack wisdom of what to *DO* with their knowledge.
Here's my advice.. you want your kids growing up to know their grandparents. Why, even YOU want to maintain a relationship with your TWI parents, right? Then keep your mouth shut about what you know and/or suspect about TWI with them. They'll be disappointed that you aren't fellowshipping with "The Ministry" but as long as you aren't disparaging TWI, things can be cool between you all.
Remember that its NOT lying to tell only part of the truth. You can give your parents all kinds of reasons for not taking part in TWI activities that are true without telling them your biggest concerns that might drive a wedge between ya'll. For instance, you could say that you just feel more comfortable in another church or fellowship plain and simple. Or that the new church/fellowship/circle-of-friends/or whatever is so much more convenient.
In other words, Bolshivek, do your own thing and just refuse to discuss TWI in any meaningful way with your parents no matter how hard they press you. Say you are uncomfortable discussing it (true) or that you are simply weighing your life options. You know your parents better than I.. but if you let them get you upset and mad... you'll say things that will severely impact your family. DON'T LET THEM GOAD YOU into discussing your current religious beliefs.
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oenophile
Did Jesus "lay low" or did he get in the face of the religious hypocrites of his day? Did he not teach his followers to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees?
I fear that the "good" they are seeking to learn will be tainted with insidious evil until they become what they now see is wrong.
This is probably the biggest lie that was ever promulgated by TWI.
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doojable
I tried this once in an offshoot. It didn't go well to say the least.
Ultimately, to go into an organization with the intent of a non-hostile takeover has an element of dishonesty to it. If nothing else, these kids will be put in situations that challenge their loyalty to the cult - and they will be discovered. Even if they can pull it off - I would think that the price is too high.
They will have to find a way to deal with both not being true to themselves and being dishonest with God. The energy that it takes to maintain that level of stealth is enormous and it will suck the life out of them. TWI has taken too much from too many - why add to the toll?
Just what will happen when one of them finds themselves in a "motorcoach" situation????
So they want to learn the "good." MY advice to these courageous kids is to find another way. Why does TWI have to be saved??? Why not just serve God and follow where He leads?
Some of us posting were Corps and we know how the experience can change a person. - Take it from me - there are better and kinder ways to accomplish a positive change. The negative change should be avoided entirely. While it can be avoided while in residence, there is a lot of "soul patching" that has to be done.
In short RUN!
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socks
Trying to "fix" the Way is ill-advised. Think about it - if the fixer is the only one who thinks something broken, how can it get repaired? If we're talking a flat tire, no biggie. The tire's flat, it has no choice, it gets plugged, gets air, it's back on the road.
Simple analolgy but common sense has to prevail there, no one's gong to try and drive a car on a flat tire and no one's going to say it's not flat when it is.
Compare that to the Way and trying to fix it.
Change the tire...a phrase meant to change out the old one for a new one. Again, common sense prevails. You can only plug a tire so many times.
What's missing in the Way/fix it scenario is communication and a common desire between those involved to look at ideas, issues, questions, problems and at least discuss them and consider them. If the Way side figures "we're right" entertaining any of that will be seen as a weakness, a problem, wrong. You become the problem, not a participant helping it to get better.
And what's missing is that people aren't tires of course. We break, get fixed, over and over. As long as we keep trying and working we always have the hope of getting better, at the least. We're always worth the effort because there's only one of each of us, there aren't replacements available.
What some of these people (and I'm surmising here so bear with me) may be considering is a little more ghoulish, so to speak. They may be thinking if they're in place in the Way, present and accounted for, eventually the current generation will die and they'll move along up and down the ladder.
Okay, that's an option, and inevitably that's going to happen if we are all here long enough. But that in my mind isn't "fixing' the Way.
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nandon
good luck to them
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excathedra
big duh
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Ductape
Everything was grand and glorious in the promised land, "WE" were the problem, so they got rid of a lot of us. Then they got rid of LCM, "HE" was the problem and everything was going to get "right-as-rain" and now they have new corps holding out until things get better or they will be able to "FIX" TWI?
Could it be that we weren't the problem? Could it be LCM was only the tip of the iceburg as far as what the problem was/is? Could it be the whole thing is a train wreck and always has been? If the good old TWI was the unbroken standard I could tell you where some VPW worshiping and quoting folks hang out calling all who post here possessed or over medicated because we accept the testimonies against their hero elder. Yes, we "hear" a word against he that betrayed us with his sexual perversion.
Perhaps serving the Lord should become the priority.
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1 john 3:1
Matthew 9:17 Â Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mark 2:22 Â And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Luke 5:37 Â And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luke 5:38 Â But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
I think the Word speaks for itself on this issue. They have too many old wine skins. Isn't it more important to function within the Body of Christ and not the body of TWI. Why make it so difficult. The fact that someone recognizes error & feels uncomfortable about it speaks volumes. Where is God in the picture here and what does he want.
1 Timothy 2:4 Â Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
You don't have to be part of TWI to recognize and help people do this...............as we have all learned over the years. We have organizations coming out of our ears, don't need them, there is only one true organization & God is the head of Christ & Christ is the head of the church. Could it be any simplier. Thank the Lord...........
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polar bear
That's why I stayed so long. I thought I could help make a difference. Boy was I wrong.
Tried to change things for 30 years. Got nowhere. Don't be a stupid as I was and waste your time.
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Ductape
Now I don't feel so bad about 20+ years
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polar bear
I should have said you can fix anything with duct tape except twi.
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Ductape
True because even I couldn't stick with them.........
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FullCircle
I was apprentice corps (for the second time). All my fellow apprentice corps and myself, along with doing manual labor at the Area Leaders house, papers and 'learning to write letters' were determined to change the ministry as well and make a difference. We were going to buckle down, stake ourselves out like one of those Native American warriors and fight the good fight of faith. We were willing to take a ministry from the secondary will of God and help it move into the being in the PRIMARY will of God.
That year was 198-1987. What year is it now?
There is the answer.
A friend of mine got courageous and came to my door. I lived with the branch leaders. This was just after I had prayed heavily to God about all the problems TWI was having, had had and was continuing to have. I asked him what to do. He said, "Dont' go into the Corps, talk to soandso." She was the very one who banged on my door hours later. She hoisted up her body and said I was just praying and if you repeat this, I will kill you but God told me to tell you not to go into the Corps.
I said, "Wow, then it was God who told me earlier not to go in."
See I had doubted myself. She almost melted into a pool of relief. She was expecting a much worse reaction from me.
So from years gone by, twenty years and from a little town called El Cajon through realistic courageous acts, I repeat, "Don't go into the Corps and if you're there, get out now and start your life the way God would have you to do so."
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Oakspear
The only way that the lay low strategy makes sense is if TWI is "THE" household of God, like they promote. If it is so screwed up that it requires a covert operation to fix it, then maybe it isn't worth fixing...ya think?
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Kevlar2000
A "Far Side" cartoon comes to mind, in which a dog and his owner are driving away in a car; the dog sticks his head out of the window and says something like this to his buddy,
"I'm a lucky dog! I'm going to the vet to get tutored!"
All you Way Corps candidates,
Good luck getting tutored.
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