I know You don't know me but my heart goes out to You ((((((((((((((((Dot))))))))))))))) and that green eyed love of yours. Most likely he loved you very much too and understands your heart and what you both went through! I bet He still loves you now and holds you in his heart! If it's at all possible and you want to...contact him and share your hearts again! I hope you do get that chance...because I don't think he blames you...especially if he understood how TWI operated! I am praying that God heals your wounded heart and His!
Sacrificed on the alter of twi...what an appropriate description of what we did. Would it bother you if some of the rest of us identified the victims of our personal sacrifice, and laid them along side of your husband?
I wonder if this isn`t an idea for a seperate thread.
Dot, jeez, I don't know what to say. You struck such a deep chord within me. We went to live in WA in 1993 after getting tossed from FC 20. Shortly thereafter I began to live in fear. I was terrified to let my son out of my sight, for fear he would get into trouble. I was terrified to take him to twig, because him getting in trouble, and then me getting in trouble with our legalistic HFCs was a given. I was terrified the whole three years I was out there. Sometimes I'm still afraid that D***d M****r was right, and I am no longer saved, because he stated that if anyone left TWI the spirit within them died at that moment. I know it's not true, but I still wonder.......
I remember one time V*** R**** confronted us about our lives and demanded we "get rid" of our son, and how he would happily throw any of his children out of his life and never give them another thought if they interfered with his ability to walk for TWI and my husband stormed angrily out. I should have stormed right with him but I was afraid, afraid we would be kicked out and die.
When we, no longer TWI but still breathing, moved back to Ohio I was terrified. I was convinced we would never find jobs, and of course we'd never own a home again because LCM had stated that was not to be and in order to maybe live a few minutes longer than I deserved I was afraid to do anything other than obey the MOGFODAT even if I was not allowed to serve God as a follower of TWI.
Well, we've owned three homes, for a while a few summers back all three at once, we have jobs, my husband even went back to school and is now a teacher. And mostly I have conquered that life-sucking terror that used to surround me all the time.
I think I am being delivered of the fear that had taken root. It had been so drilled into me in the corps that I did not even realize it was there, or that it stayed or that I made huge decsions with the FEAR at the center. God had been my center and I walked with peace. By my final year in the corps, I think I lived one big panic attack.
fdspecially, after the lying sack of crap female Rev., lied about me and that fat jolly olf VPW was naked and asked me to do something (I refused to do)
Some place in the center of me their words had sprouted. First, the words in PFAL that brought me such a calm and excitment all at the same time. Then, they replaced all the nice words of, "God loves you," with "You are worthless, you will be nothing for God." "You cannot be trusted with God's people." It was so severe. By the time they picked on the husband, there was a part of me that was relieved they were railing on him because it gave me a minute to breathe. How is that for being disgusting? Talk about shame and guilt.
As the jackels were telling him he was "not a man of God" and " had no leadership ability" I felt better because they were not saying it to me. How did a gutsy broad like me become such a coward? An idiot.
Which one of their mean words finally broke the dam? You know the straw that broke the camel's back. Which straw was it? Was it VPW having all the power and setting me up because I told him no? Was it because I refused to bang the corps guys so I was not what they were looking for? Was it that I knew somewhere in my soul this was crazy but I forced myself to believe it was sane. Believing their bile over my own common sense?
When did I let FEAR take God's spot in my heart? I should have stood by my man. I did not. I thought I was doing the right thing, by STANDING by leadership. I am sick. I never really saw this clearly until yesterday. I destroyed things, by my fear of some gangly weird-farm-people with perversions I would have reported if we were out in the world. Now, I feared them. It is like I feared the cast of friggin' hee-haw. How the F did that happen?
As long as you are sure Dot, I do not want to intrude on your grief. Your post and thread has struck a chord with me. How could we allow ourselves to be persuaded that it was necessary to allow these things in the name of God????
OK....I laid the life of my unborn child in sacrifice on twi`s alter of blood. I too was terrified, I too was deathly afraid of living without God or his protection, as I was told would be the consequence if I didn`t heed my leaderships *councel*.
When I had done the unthinkable, when I had proven my commitment/honored my vow to God, did what was necessary to remain in the program.......... I am ashamed to say that I was intensely relieved that I was going to be allowed to remain in the household and continue in good standing, that I was safe.
Damned right it was fear. Somehow, I just don`t think God was rejoicing that day.
Yeah Rascal, I did that as well with the man of whom I speak. I was terrified that if I left the corps and had a child, God would not love me anymore. How warped is that?
Yes Pbear - More than anything I was terrifeid I would loose God's love. Even thought they originally taught me (us) God would never leave me or forsake me, they then told me the devil would make me a greasespot by morning.... Or he that vows a vow.... Afraid I would bring a curse on a child, or loose the love of God by defending my spouse I folded like a cheap shirt. I never saw that until of late...
You did what you did because you thought you were loving God.
That is just it, I did not do it because I thought I was loving God. I did not stand up for him because I was terrified to stand up for him. Terrified God would stop loving me. Where do you run and hide when God stops loving you and instead starts throwing lightening bolts at you (The whole greasespot by morning thing) I recall a believer left the WOW field and his Dad died. It was said openly that his Dad died because he left the WOW field. I do not recall if VP or Luniticdale said it. He that vows a vow....
Yet, when almighty VF's Dad died that was because he was such a mighty leader and the devil was attacking him.
My biggest fear was the God, I wanted to serve for the rest of my life, would stop loving me. Then, came the being singled out, and screamed at, disscussed at meetings, labeled as bad corps (which I was anyway). I think that year I may have been having a melt down and did not know it.
Who is so afraid God is not going to love them for doing the SANE thing (like leaving the WAY, like not banging any horny corps guy, like defending your husband?) that they do the insane thing? I think that is how insanilty crept into some of our minds. Now, looking through a clearer glass, I see that is how they made me accept evil for good. I still fought things but I was withered, battle scarred, frightened and terrified God would stop loving me. HE was really all I had. God. He is why I got into all of this. Looking to love and serve him. I did not want to live a life having God mad at me.
With that kind of fear at my core, I guess the right thing became the wrong thing. Because love stopped being my engine and fear drove me.
And I did not even know it.
Do you think that is how Craig got so screwed up? He was drained of common sense and driven by fear? Then, motivated by fear?
Because from where I sat, it was a spit flying lunatic that ran those meetings.
They used that scripture against us about leaders not being a terror to good works but to evil. Remember?
What is evil about having a baby? What is evil about loving your family, your husband, your children? What is evil about taking care of yourself? What is evil about an inherited disease?
I'll tell you what is evil. What is evil is using God's children to your own benefit. What is evil is taking advantage of innocent helpless girls for sexual gratification and telling them God will bless them for serving the MOGFODAT. What is evil is telling people to "get rid of" their child. What is evil is intruding into every nook and cranny of an individual's life, making judgement, and demanding payment. What is evil is falsely representing the most loving, kind, generous, tender God to His own beloved. How many people have we seen post who hate God, deny His very existence, because of the manner in which TWI represented Him to them?
May God forgive me for the evil I did in His Name out of my own ignorance. May He tenderly bind the wounds of our hearts left by those evil ones.
I remember it was pressure for a long time, intense pressure to be *spiritual*. If you didn`t come to every twig, every class, bring new people, you were talked about as unspiritual.
Then one day the lc come to our way home and went into my room and found a parakeet that I was rehabilitating from the pet shop I worked at.
It was my first face melting. I was screamed at by an ex jock 3 times my size. He bellowed and roared the most shamefull things....how my heart wasn`t to be corpes, that I was spiritually asleep, yadda yadda...
It was terrifying, it seemed to go on for ever, that huge man in my tiny room...when he was done, I was jut so much jelly, I would have done anything to redeem myself and avoid the venom, the disgust that I assumed was per God.
I was completely broken that God considered me a loser. I meekly asked if the leader thought God could teach me what I needed to know and help me with my heart if I took another app years and went wow.
Well, he deflated a bit and conceded that there might be some hope for me yet. The rest of my time in twi, I was damned determined that I wouldn`t dissapoint God, or incur his/a leaders wrath ever again. There wasn`t anything that I wouldn`t and didn`t do when told that God required it.
It is astounding in hind sight the intense fear, the debilitating shame that was used to manipulate us as if it was from God.
When I think about the tender gentle way in which I have been delt with since, I feel within the depths of my being that the ministry leaders didn`t know God period.
I think that the source of their power and inspiration came from somewhere else entirely.
Dot, this is heartbreaking. You, Rascal, Ex - I wish there were something that could be done to make things right.
After I left, and also realized the wasted years, the catching up in the "world" I would have to do, one verse came to mind: The Lord will repay the years the locusts have eaten. I think about that, and as I look back, he has. Hopefully, you can still see him at work in your lives.
I was a brave teenager, but then I looked at witchcraft and became frightened to death. I took PFAL for a couple reasons one was to get rid of fear I think.
And like you they helped me to get rid of it, then gave it back to me.
I was married upon my graduation from the corps. My first marriage was a mess; a teen-age mistake. Divorced- then went coprs. Next, I married a really nice man. But my last year in the corps did something to my soul. It squeezed me into something I hated my first year. I became afraid.
I was afraid of being singled out, I was afraid of being screamed at, I was afraid of being torn into. I was afraid. Most of all, I was afraid the things they said might be true. After you hear something over and over from leaders, you are not suppose to question, one becomes afraid that their ridiculous, ludicrous, assessments may hold some value.
We divorced. I blamed him as I heard the internal “tape” planted there by TWI personnel about him. And in a way, while they ridiculed him they left me alone for a little bit. I blamed me for not being able to balance my “walk”, corps commitment, and a marriage to a “nice” guy. They view NICE as WEAK, ya know? If they were raving lunatics like Craig – well that was “corps material” but a nice guy? That would be bane to them.
Just today. About an hour ago, I realized I destroyed that marriage because I was more afraid of TWI then I was willing to love him. I was more afraid then I had the ability to love.
Here is the thing; I do have a great capacity to love. I have a huge amount of loyalty. And many, many times I was very brave when I saw TWI deteriorating. But as they said, the devil will get you with pressure or pleasure, I was taken out by pressure. The constant drip of water telling you, you do not measure up. The sound track of them hunting for devils, and finding them in me, each time I questioned leadership or refused to do something which I knew was wrong.
I was more afraid of them than I was of loosing my marriage. I was more afraid of them than the man I looked into his green eyes and promised to love forever. My fear of them was bigger than my commitment to a really nice guy. He was sweet, he and I could get the giggles, and we had something sweet. I put it out there, like a sheep on a rock to be slaughtered. But not a sacrifice to God, for God would not ask me to sacrifice my marriage he would ask that I try and make it work, but worse – to an organization I had grown to fear.
They spoke for God, doncha know?
Today, it hit me of something else I lost in the cult.
WOW great story pretty depressing though but goood story
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RainbowsGirl
Dear Dot,
I know You don't know me but my heart goes out to You ((((((((((((((((Dot))))))))))))))) and that green eyed love of yours. Most likely he loved you very much too and understands your heart and what you both went through! I bet He still loves you now and holds you in his heart! If it's at all possible and you want to...contact him and share your hearts again! I hope you do get that chance...because I don't think he blames you...especially if he understood how TWI operated! I am praying that God heals your wounded heart and His!
Love You Dot, RainbowsGirl
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rascal
(((((Dot)))))
Sacrificed on the alter of twi...what an appropriate description of what we did. Would it bother you if some of the rest of us identified the victims of our personal sacrifice, and laid them along side of your husband?
I wonder if this isn`t an idea for a seperate thread.
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Twinky
If "fear" is
F alse
E vidence
A ppearing
R eal
is "afraid"
A llowing
F alse
R eligious
A utocrats
I nterference
D aily ?
I hear ya, Dot, oh I hear ya (hugs).
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Eyesopen
(((((((((((((((((((Dot))))))))))))))))))
My heart goes out to you Dot.
You have made such a huge sacrifice on the alter of TWI...but perhaps Rainbow has a good idea?? :)
God Love you always.
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Suda
(((((Dot)))))
Suda
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Dot Matrix
Rascal
Yes, go ahead and tell me --- anyone else?
Maybe we will all feel better....
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Watered Garden
Dot, jeez, I don't know what to say. You struck such a deep chord within me. We went to live in WA in 1993 after getting tossed from FC 20. Shortly thereafter I began to live in fear. I was terrified to let my son out of my sight, for fear he would get into trouble. I was terrified to take him to twig, because him getting in trouble, and then me getting in trouble with our legalistic HFCs was a given. I was terrified the whole three years I was out there. Sometimes I'm still afraid that D***d M****r was right, and I am no longer saved, because he stated that if anyone left TWI the spirit within them died at that moment. I know it's not true, but I still wonder.......
I remember one time V*** R**** confronted us about our lives and demanded we "get rid" of our son, and how he would happily throw any of his children out of his life and never give them another thought if they interfered with his ability to walk for TWI and my husband stormed angrily out. I should have stormed right with him but I was afraid, afraid we would be kicked out and die.
When we, no longer TWI but still breathing, moved back to Ohio I was terrified. I was convinced we would never find jobs, and of course we'd never own a home again because LCM had stated that was not to be and in order to maybe live a few minutes longer than I deserved I was afraid to do anything other than obey the MOGFODAT even if I was not allowed to serve God as a follower of TWI.
Well, we've owned three homes, for a while a few summers back all three at once, we have jobs, my husband even went back to school and is now a teacher. And mostly I have conquered that life-sucking terror that used to surround me all the time.
WG
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Dot Matrix
I never realized how full of fear I had become.
I was always such a brave kid.
I cannot believe how afraid I had become.
The eggshell walk....
I think I am being delivered of the fear that had taken root. It had been so drilled into me in the corps that I did not even realize it was there, or that it stayed or that I made huge decsions with the FEAR at the center. God had been my center and I walked with peace. By my final year in the corps, I think I lived one big panic attack.
fdspecially, after the lying sack of crap female Rev., lied about me and that fat jolly olf VPW was naked and asked me to do something (I refused to do)
Some place in the center of me their words had sprouted. First, the words in PFAL that brought me such a calm and excitment all at the same time. Then, they replaced all the nice words of, "God loves you," with "You are worthless, you will be nothing for God." "You cannot be trusted with God's people." It was so severe. By the time they picked on the husband, there was a part of me that was relieved they were railing on him because it gave me a minute to breathe. How is that for being disgusting? Talk about shame and guilt.
As the jackels were telling him he was "not a man of God" and " had no leadership ability" I felt better because they were not saying it to me. How did a gutsy broad like me become such a coward? An idiot.
Which one of their mean words finally broke the dam? You know the straw that broke the camel's back. Which straw was it? Was it VPW having all the power and setting me up because I told him no? Was it because I refused to bang the corps guys so I was not what they were looking for? Was it that I knew somewhere in my soul this was crazy but I forced myself to believe it was sane. Believing their bile over my own common sense?
When did I let FEAR take God's spot in my heart? I should have stood by my man. I did not. I thought I was doing the right thing, by STANDING by leadership. I am sick. I never really saw this clearly until yesterday. I destroyed things, by my fear of some gangly weird-farm-people with perversions I would have reported if we were out in the world. Now, I feared them. It is like I feared the cast of friggin' hee-haw. How the F did that happen?
WG
My God, you said it --- terrified.
What the he!! kind of people were we following?
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Dot Matrix
I feared them -- I let them tell me what to do ----
I let these people peck at my soul. Heck, I am from Philly. What the he!! wa I thinking?
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rascal
As long as you are sure Dot, I do not want to intrude on your grief. Your post and thread has struck a chord with me. How could we allow ourselves to be persuaded that it was necessary to allow these things in the name of God????
OK....I laid the life of my unborn child in sacrifice on twi`s alter of blood. I too was terrified, I too was deathly afraid of living without God or his protection, as I was told would be the consequence if I didn`t heed my leaderships *councel*.
When I had done the unthinkable, when I had proven my commitment/honored my vow to God, did what was necessary to remain in the program.......... I am ashamed to say that I was intensely relieved that I was going to be allowed to remain in the household and continue in good standing, that I was safe.
Damned right it was fear. Somehow, I just don`t think God was rejoicing that day.
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polar bear
Bless your heart Dot. Religion is a most powerful tool. You did what you did because you thought you were loving God.
You do love God and He looks at your heart.
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Dot Matrix
Yeah Rascal, I did that as well with the man of whom I speak. I was terrified that if I left the corps and had a child, God would not love me anymore. How warped is that?
Yes Pbear - More than anything I was terrifeid I would loose God's love. Even thought they originally taught me (us) God would never leave me or forsake me, they then told me the devil would make me a greasespot by morning.... Or he that vows a vow.... Afraid I would bring a curse on a child, or loose the love of God by defending my spouse I folded like a cheap shirt. I never saw that until of late...
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Dot Matrix
PB you said
That is just it, I did not do it because I thought I was loving God. I did not stand up for him because I was terrified to stand up for him. Terrified God would stop loving me. Where do you run and hide when God stops loving you and instead starts throwing lightening bolts at you (The whole greasespot by morning thing) I recall a believer left the WOW field and his Dad died. It was said openly that his Dad died because he left the WOW field. I do not recall if VP or Luniticdale said it. He that vows a vow....
Yet, when almighty VF's Dad died that was because he was such a mighty leader and the devil was attacking him.
My biggest fear was the God, I wanted to serve for the rest of my life, would stop loving me. Then, came the being singled out, and screamed at, disscussed at meetings, labeled as bad corps (which I was anyway). I think that year I may have been having a melt down and did not know it.
Who is so afraid God is not going to love them for doing the SANE thing (like leaving the WAY, like not banging any horny corps guy, like defending your husband?) that they do the insane thing? I think that is how insanilty crept into some of our minds. Now, looking through a clearer glass, I see that is how they made me accept evil for good. I still fought things but I was withered, battle scarred, frightened and terrified God would stop loving me. HE was really all I had. God. He is why I got into all of this. Looking to love and serve him. I did not want to live a life having God mad at me.
With that kind of fear at my core, I guess the right thing became the wrong thing. Because love stopped being my engine and fear drove me.
And I did not even know it.
Do you think that is how Craig got so screwed up? He was drained of common sense and driven by fear? Then, motivated by fear?
Because from where I sat, it was a spit flying lunatic that ran those meetings.
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Watered Garden
Dot,
They used that scripture against us about leaders not being a terror to good works but to evil. Remember?
What is evil about having a baby? What is evil about loving your family, your husband, your children? What is evil about taking care of yourself? What is evil about an inherited disease?
I'll tell you what is evil. What is evil is using God's children to your own benefit. What is evil is taking advantage of innocent helpless girls for sexual gratification and telling them God will bless them for serving the MOGFODAT. What is evil is telling people to "get rid of" their child. What is evil is intruding into every nook and cranny of an individual's life, making judgement, and demanding payment. What is evil is falsely representing the most loving, kind, generous, tender God to His own beloved. How many people have we seen post who hate God, deny His very existence, because of the manner in which TWI represented Him to them?
May God forgive me for the evil I did in His Name out of my own ignorance. May He tenderly bind the wounds of our hearts left by those evil ones.
WG
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TheHighWay
Wow, this thread strikes a chord with me...
Stupid thing was, I was afraid BEFORE I joined twi.
I joined them BECAUSE I was afraid, and thought they had the answers I was looking for.
I thought following their teachings would take my fear away. And it did. For a while.
Then they replaced my original fears with their own set of fears. And I was afraid again. Only this time I didn't know it.
And the fear kept me there.
Until I got outraged enough at their horrible, self-righteous, harmful behaviors.
Got angry enough to say, I honestly don't care if God doesn't love me any more, I can't do this another day.
What's that verse about evil calling black "white" and white "black"... that's twi in a nutshell.
They defined evil, and defined good, and then did evil and told us it was good. Some magic trick!
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rascal
I remember it was pressure for a long time, intense pressure to be *spiritual*. If you didn`t come to every twig, every class, bring new people, you were talked about as unspiritual.
Then one day the lc come to our way home and went into my room and found a parakeet that I was rehabilitating from the pet shop I worked at.
It was my first face melting. I was screamed at by an ex jock 3 times my size. He bellowed and roared the most shamefull things....how my heart wasn`t to be corpes, that I was spiritually asleep, yadda yadda...
It was terrifying, it seemed to go on for ever, that huge man in my tiny room...when he was done, I was jut so much jelly, I would have done anything to redeem myself and avoid the venom, the disgust that I assumed was per God.
I was completely broken that God considered me a loser. I meekly asked if the leader thought God could teach me what I needed to know and help me with my heart if I took another app years and went wow.
Well, he deflated a bit and conceded that there might be some hope for me yet. The rest of my time in twi, I was damned determined that I wouldn`t dissapoint God, or incur his/a leaders wrath ever again. There wasn`t anything that I wouldn`t and didn`t do when told that God required it.
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rascal
It is astounding in hind sight the intense fear, the debilitating shame that was used to manipulate us as if it was from God.
When I think about the tender gentle way in which I have been delt with since, I feel within the depths of my being that the ministry leaders didn`t know God period.
I think that the source of their power and inspiration came from somewhere else entirely.
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Listener
Now you're catching on, rascal. :)
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Dot Matrix
Oh, it was devilish alright.
The ministry of the devil is steal, kill and destroy....
The ministry
Destroyed couples with the whole have sex with any leader that asked
Killed pregnancy because it may interfer with corps or WOW commitments
Stole years, money, property
On and on
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excathedra
it's painful to read this thread
i myself wanted to be "delivered" of fear / shame / etc
i got worse
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Sunesis
Dot, this is heartbreaking. You, Rascal, Ex - I wish there were something that could be done to make things right.
After I left, and also realized the wasted years, the catching up in the "world" I would have to do, one verse came to mind: The Lord will repay the years the locusts have eaten. I think about that, and as I look back, he has. Hopefully, you can still see him at work in your lives.
You are all awesome!!!
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rascal
Thankyou Sunesis. He has indeed.
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Dot Matrix
Highway
I was a brave teenager, but then I looked at witchcraft and became frightened to death. I took PFAL for a couple reasons one was to get rid of fear I think.
And like you they helped me to get rid of it, then gave it back to me.
I hate being afraid
Sunesis
Great words, thanks
Ex
Yeah, I got worse as well...
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Captain Spiritural
WOW great story pretty depressing though but goood story
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