People leave the Way and follow similar offshoots because that is what they are familiar with.
It happens time and time in any religion. No matter what sect it is.
I've seen people leave the Way and join Quixtar/Amway. The recruiting/purpose...EXACTLY the same.
People are hungry for God's Word. (I'll never understand why Benny Hinn packs them in...other than that.) They want to be part of a group that is secure and safe to them. They want to belong. It's easier to belong to an offshooot than a whole new way of religion.
The oldstyle religion gives you the comforts of home, what you were brought up on.
In the end though, they still become frustrated. What you are seeking for is what you were trying to escape from. Ya know?
I know it happens over and over again but its just so frustrating. I mean really you leave because of different reasons and join something that is similar in everyway with the same people?
I was wondering if it was refusal to believe that they may have been wrong all these years? To most people it would be hard to except they made a mistake for years on end.
not just your own personal accountability but many people become attached to others in a very c0-dependant manner even family members. One joins, then it is just easier to still be a part of those in the know . easier less resposibility to self or others when your friends go . people trust who they chose.
many in the off shoots want to be leaders and failed in twi , a second change to obey Gods will yet without the complication and mess of twi.. label. it is all about the comofort zone and who knows who .
I got this from a private message of someone that wants to be anonymous but gave permission for me to post part of what was said.
To me it was very interesting.....
_____________
Just like a drug addict has to hit rock bottom before he will stop abusing his DOC (drug of choice), a person in a cult normally will go thru hell before finally leaving. After the initial detox to cleanse the system of the 'problem', the person is left without the thing that worked on the pleasure center of his brain for so long. With drugs it's obvious what gave the pleasure. With a cult it's a little different for everyone, but the main things would be the love bombing and sense of community and likemindedness a cult gives.
If the person doesn't find something to replace his DOC or cult, he stands a very good chance of going into a deep depression and that can lead him to a relapse. For an addict that means going back to abusing drugs, for a cult member it means finding another group that is similar to the one he left, if he doesn't return to the same cult again.
Just as addicts have groups such as AA and NA for support, ex-TWI people have the GS Cafe. Both work on the same principle of helping the person refrain from going back to the thing which was destroying their life and giving them a place to go, to talk to others with similar experiences, to talk it all over with and get the needed support. Very few can do it on their own without having a relapse.
'Cults' are now addicting? Like a drug? That those of us at GS have been afflicted with that we now are in desperate need for a 'halfway house' to break away from the 'grip of the cult drug'?
I wonder if that person ever thought that maybe this same 'condition' can easily be applied to religion in general. Especially a fundamentalist one. Do you realize how many people who leave their respective churches or religions have all too common thoughts of despair or fear or trepidation at first, until they become confident enough to openly admit it w/o thinking that God shalt smite them dead or, to put it in our terms, 'a greasespot by midnight'? I know myself, in moving away from the religious to the skeptical side, that I have had plenty of thoughts of 'uh ohh, what if God gets angry', yet I worked it out and overcame that intimidation in comparing that POV which I was leaving to the one I hold now. And I realize that this was the same kind of fear that I hear about TWIers go thru when they decide to split TWI; that "God is gonna make you a greasespot by midnight if you leave God's Ministry!"
But, staying on topic, do most of the people who have left TWI really go thru that 'hell' of which he/she speaks? Those that do were usually the ones who took TWI way too seriously, yet not unlike the fundy example I provided. "Very few can do it on their own without having a relapse." ... Right! Sure. Ok, if that were true, taking into account the numbers of all those that come here, AND are active here (which would be necessary for full support group like benefits), and comparing them to the numbers of all those who took an active part in TWI, even in just the past 10-15 years (never mind the previous 25 years), ... sorry, but the numbers just don't add up. Know what that tells you? That there have been plenty of those who have not gone thru the 'halfway house' like situation of Greasespot, or even if you include all the spinoffs, after leaving TWI. They had to deal with whatever experiences, hurtful or otherwise, with either their family or friends. Or maybe with just themselves, chalking TWI up to Yet Another Life Experience to learn from.
Ie., it ain't a 'drug' of sorts (of the 'mind control' variety), but they (TWI) did try to instill that fear of leaving TWI to be sure. And yet there were more that left w/o needing a 'support group' than perhaps he/she realizes.
After we left in 2000 - someone gave us some good advice about religion in general. He said that it's a good idea to take a year off from any formal type of fellowship - whether it be offshoots or churches. He said, if you want to do anything -- have a home fellowship and get to know each other and our kids without TWI's influence and interference. We never did the home fellowship thing before we left - so we weren't too motivated to do it afterwards.
After 6 months, I decided that if it looked like the Way, sounded like the Way, or felt like the Way - I'd have nothing to do with it.
I figured that anyone who only got their information about God and the bible from one source only was much to narrow minded for my liking. Whether or not the offshoot was pro-TWI or anti-TWI - they all based their doctrine on what they'd learned from TWI, either to laud it or debunk it - it all contained the same teachings.
I think that sooner or later, even with the best of intentions, that these offshoots will end just like TWI and try to control the people who support them. I hope I'm wrong -- time will tell.
First of all.....twi is an OFFSHOOT of BG Leonard's ministry. In 1953, after sitting thru Rev. Leonard's holy spirit class TWICE.....wierwille rushed back to Ohio and ran a carbon-copy of the class, without any syllabus or materials, three months later. In Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, the accounts are vivid and illustrate that young vpw was thrilled by the work of Leonard.....and later, devoured the works of Stiles, Bullinger, and others.
Secondly, here is a definition of offshoot....n. anything that branches off, or derives from a main source; specif., a shoot or stem growing laterally from the main stem of a plant.
quote:
I figured that anyone who only got their information about God and the bible from one source only was much to narrow minded for my liking. Whether or not the offshoot was pro-TWI or anti-TWI - they all based their doctrine on what they'd learned from TWI, either to laud it or debunk it - it all contained the same teachings.
I agree, Hope.....if the "roads and highways" all traveled back to OFFSHOOT CENTRAL HEADQUARTERS, then it mattered little if the terminology, or definitions, were identical to twi. What mattered was 1) the OUTFLOW SHIPPING OF TEACHING TAPES to stage an appearance of central authority..... and, 2) the INHOUSE STRUCTURE OF RECOGNIZED LEADERSHIP to stage a dominant/recessive relationship..... and 3) the BENEVOLENT APPEARANCE OF GODLINESS to stage a centralization to receive MONEY.
I tend to think that the whole way tree structure was flawed from the beginning. Even the wierwillian structure, the way tree, that was on its logo and painted on the OSC building..... is a conceptualized error. Wierwille conceived its tree-structue....and Townsend later taught The Way Tree class.
Why didn't wierwille structure twi in line with the scriptures??? in line with the One Body???..... in line with eyes, ears, feet, members in particular??? Could it be that a true biblical analogy of Christ as the head was too much to mask??? a way tree fit with veepee's rural upbringing and agendas???
And still today...."offshoots" fit with the wierwillian doctrine.
I think we need to look at why we got involved with WayWorld in the first place to understand the lure of the offshoots.
What was it about Wierwillism that attracted us?I think the primary draw, as with most any religion, was comfort (false comfort IMHO, but we'll leave that be for now). Then there was the sense of purpose. This took awhile to instill in us, but after we got a taste of the heady notion that we had a "mission from God", well, we were off and running. Then add to that the equally intoxicating concept that we knew things that the ordinary mortal just simply had no handle on whatsoever. Now we were thoroughly (or is that "throughly") primed to dedicate our very lives to some pretty lame B.S.
So what happens when we finally leave that all behind? It's sort of tough to look back and say "Well, that was a helluva waste of time" - even if that is the truth. So we go looking for a slightly different thumb to suck, or skirt to hide behind. And we find it in the offshoots. Different enough to make us believe that the bad has been rooted out, but familiar enough so as to reinforce the basic tenets that we're afraid to leave behind.
I think the offshoots are proof that there was genuine substance in what was taught in TWI. Like Hope said time will tell, but CES is almost 18 yrs old and several others aren't far behind.
Aren't there some other threads going on about offshoots ? Guess its a popular topic these days. Anyway. In my view the offshoots/splinters server primarily as decompression chambers for those seeking a return to a conventional life. I was living in an offshoot-rich area for a while and I saw a lot of turnover in that people would leave the Way, pick an offshoot, hang out for a while, and then move on - perhaps to another offshot or maybe nothing at all.
Not everyone who leaves TWI goes to offshoots. Some left before there were offshoots so its not like they would want to recreate that dysfunctional life that they left for something better. Just as there were varying degrees of devotion to the Way,VPW, ad LCM there are varying degrees of devotion to the offshoots.
I don't view the exsitence of offshoots as evidence that there is "truth" there anymore than it existed within TWI. I mean seems to me lots of people want to continue the good feelings and attitudes they had in TWI without the major drama and trama they were enduring. So it appears to be more like a preservation thing more than anything else.
And I really don't see major differences between them.
One offshoot does't teach the "law of believing" another doesn't teach "four crucified" yet another teaches "personal prophecy" but I've seen no major departures from Way theology and certainly the home fellowship concept. I see this more of an attachment to "the way we were" as opposed to some evidence that TWI was mostly "right on" except for the legalism (there is also the plagiarism).
In my view the offshoots/splinters server primarily as decompression chambers for those seeking a return to a conventional life.
I agree. It worked for my wife and I.
While in TWI they taught us that only they had the complete truth of God's word "as it hadn't been known since the 1st century".
They also taught us that Churches were primarily a bad place because churches taught JC is God and the dead are alive etc.
I think it was Martindale that said something like, and I'm paraphrasing here "Denomiational churches are swamp breeding grounds for devil spirits" or some such nonsense.
So when my wife and I left TWI we felt at that time the only option was CES, and at that time it was the only offshoot that we were aware of.
So I believe many people who leave TWI and still want to fellowship with christians tend to go where they're comfortable. Offshoots can be their "comfort zone". But depending on the offshoot this isn't necessaily a bad thing, at least for the short term.
It can be a half-way house to de-way-brain.
As for me and my wife weve grown past the ignorant thinking that only TWI or those previously involved are the only one's that know the word accurately.
That doesn't mean I'd completely throw out everything offshoots have to offer. But I no longer believe that TWI or offshoots have all the answers either.
I believe if your only eating off the plate of one minister or oraganization, your not getting a balanced diet, spiritually speaking.
I also beleive that not all offshoots are a carbon copy of TWI. I think it's wrong to label them all this way based on my experiences with the one's I've checked out.
I have seen some offshoots or those involved at the leadership level get involved with churches, go to an acreditted college and earn degree's in Bible studies, and reachout out to other christian groups that were not part of TWI to learn, at least to some degree.
Oldiesman said;
quote:
The offshoots in their own way have tried to keep the baby, and throw out the bathwater.
I can see why some people, in some circumstances, would go to an offshoot, or an informal ex-Way fellowship.
If, when you made the decision to leave, you were convinced that the core doctrine was sound, but the practice was flawed, then an offshoot, especially one that retained much of the old ways, would seem very comforting.
In the late eighties whole limbs were being marked and avoided and the staff fired. Often the loyalty (after God) and familiarity was not to the central HQ, but to the local people who cared about you and loved you on a daily basis.
In the face of such upheaval, it makes perfect sense to try and maintain some order, some continuity.
Well I swore that I was not going to get sucked in to your thread Mrs. Pickles but then I felt sorry for you in your quest for more crap. I know that wolf dog is working overtime to produce but he needs a rest so... I guesss I should do my part. :D-->
I stay in touch with people from many "offshoots" (I really hate that term) most I don't find to be like the way at all.
I did not go through hell or hit bottom before leaving. Rather it was a logical biblical choice for thinking people. Really the hell started after I left.
I have seen no attempt to control anyone in the several I keep in touch with. Quite the opposite realy there seems to be a lack of direction at times due to not wanting to fall into that rut again.
People attend these groups because they want Christian fellowship that is missing in churches. Many have tried churches after leaving the way but do not like the menu of unscriptural doctrine. and if you survive long enough by laying low and being some fake person eventually when they find out (and they do ) that you dont hold their views just like in the way you are quickly put on the shelf for any leadership roles. That leaves two choices do nothing which many are content to do or be involved in some way with one of these groups.
I did not go through hell or hit bottom before leaving. Rather it was a logical biblical choice for thinking people. Really the hell started after I left.
>>
Which might be the reason that people like the offshoots so much. Its a safe place for them while they sort it all out.
Post Way living brings with it lots of new issues and splinters
offer a nice support system to make the adjustment. Obviously some people consider the splinters to be more than that.
White Dove said:
>>
People attend these groups because they want Christian fellowship that is missing in churches. Many have tried churches after leaving the way but do not like the menu of unscriptural doctrine.
Its very rare , at least in my experience, that people leaving TWI go directly to mainstream churches first. The Way training to consider mainstream religion as evil is quite strong. Most new Wayfers tend to either avoid services of any type or ,more commonly, spend some time with one or more splinters. But thats just in the areas I've lived in.
In terms of "unscriptural doctrines" well thats just using the Way teachings to judge other organizations. In my time since leaving TWI I have found many Way practices and teachings to be "unscriptural". Personally I have never observed any of the offshoots to be free of strong and obvious Way influence. Over time it has diminished since many have made a conscious effort to stop using various way-cliches but lots of the same patterns and expectations are there.
I can understand why some wouldn't want to check out churches because of what we believed when we were in twi. I couldn't go into church either when I first got out. Now, I can and actually enjoy it. I'm surprised on how much of the bible they actually do know.
Mind you, I still can't get into going every sunday. And if someone asked me for a comittment they would most likely not see me there anymore. But this one certain church has shown me nothing but kindness and sharing and I've been going there off and on for three years.
I did not go through hell or hit bottom before leaving. Rather it was a logical biblical choice for thinking people. Really the hell started after I left.
Just to be clear the problem had nothing to do with any type of post Way issues it was the treatment by people still in the way I was refering to as hell.
[Quote}
In terms of "unscriptural doctrines" well thats just using the Way teachings to judge other organizations. In my time since leaving TWI I have found many Way practices and teachings to be "unscriptural".
I'd have to disagree with you there it is using the Bible,scripture,to decide if a church doctrine is true or false. Just like in math 2+2=4 if someone tells you that it equals 7 I can use math to see if that is true or false. If it is false then it is false it has nothing to do with judgement of anyone. Truth is truth error is error. And yes I agree that same test holds true for Way teachings and I would agree many have been found not to have passed the test.
Miss vickles took the words right out of my mouth. It's not so black and white.
We've had this conversation about churches before. The main problem I have with "offshoots" and that I have with TWI, is the arrogance. You know, the "I know more of 'the truth' than you do, so I'm not going to fellowship with you" attitude.
The only offshoot I know anything about, (CES)seems to have gotten over that, and even goes out of its way to network with many other christian groups.
So maybe I'm a wierdo, because I went straight from TWI to church. But I don't think so, since many of my particular ex-way friends did the same thing. And many are still there. In fact, I've been involved in church far longer that I was ever in TWI. And I have friends and family members that can say the same thing.
They don't hang around here much though. Maybe it's just the nature of this place, that those who haven't gotten involved in something else, whether it's a church, offshoot group, or do their own thing, tend to hang out here? Just a thought.....This cafe seems to be a nice little haven for us TWI fugitives. ;)-->
And Miss vick, I feel the same way you do about going to church every Sunday. I go when I want to be there. I'm way over attending meetings out of guilt or obligation. I guess that's one positive thing that came out of TWI for me. I've met my lifetime meeting quota.
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vickles
Ok, I see that its going to be hard to respond to this one.
Why do people leave twi only to go to an offshoot and go through the same stuff? And then won't admit that its the same?
I'm not talking beleifs here I'm talking about the politics and worship.
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vickles
Its like people still want to worship man....
Ok I think I'm done.
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Shellon
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RottieGrrrl
People leave the Way and follow similar offshoots because that is what they are familiar with.
It happens time and time in any religion. No matter what sect it is.
I've seen people leave the Way and join Quixtar/Amway. The recruiting/purpose...EXACTLY the same.
People are hungry for God's Word. (I'll never understand why Benny Hinn packs them in...other than that.) They want to be part of a group that is secure and safe to them. They want to belong. It's easier to belong to an offshooot than a whole new way of religion.
The oldstyle religion gives you the comforts of home, what you were brought up on.
In the end though, they still become frustrated. What you are seeking for is what you were trying to escape from. Ya know?
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vickles
exactly rottie, thanks for defining it.
I know it happens over and over again but its just so frustrating. I mean really you leave because of different reasons and join something that is similar in everyway with the same people?
I was wondering if it was refusal to believe that they may have been wrong all these years? To most people it would be hard to except they made a mistake for years on end.
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mj412
not just your own personal accountability but many people become attached to others in a very c0-dependant manner even family members. One joins, then it is just easier to still be a part of those in the know . easier less resposibility to self or others when your friends go . people trust who they chose.
many in the off shoots want to be leaders and failed in twi , a second change to obey Gods will yet without the complication and mess of twi.. label. it is all about the comofort zone and who knows who .
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vickles
I got this from a private message of someone that wants to be anonymous but gave permission for me to post part of what was said.
To me it was very interesting.....
_____________
Just like a drug addict has to hit rock bottom before he will stop abusing his DOC (drug of choice), a person in a cult normally will go thru hell before finally leaving. After the initial detox to cleanse the system of the 'problem', the person is left without the thing that worked on the pleasure center of his brain for so long. With drugs it's obvious what gave the pleasure. With a cult it's a little different for everyone, but the main things would be the love bombing and sense of community and likemindedness a cult gives.
If the person doesn't find something to replace his DOC or cult, he stands a very good chance of going into a deep depression and that can lead him to a relapse. For an addict that means going back to abusing drugs, for a cult member it means finding another group that is similar to the one he left, if he doesn't return to the same cult again.
Just as addicts have groups such as AA and NA for support, ex-TWI people have the GS Cafe. Both work on the same principle of helping the person refrain from going back to the thing which was destroying their life and giving them a place to go, to talk to others with similar experiences, to talk it all over with and get the needed support. Very few can do it on their own without having a relapse.
--------
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GarthP2000
Vickles,
'Cults' are now addicting? Like a drug? That those of us at GS have been afflicted with that we now are in desperate need for a 'halfway house' to break away from the 'grip of the cult drug'?
I wonder if that person ever thought that maybe this same 'condition' can easily be applied to religion in general. Especially a fundamentalist one. Do you realize how many people who leave their respective churches or religions have all too common thoughts of despair or fear or trepidation at first, until they become confident enough to openly admit it w/o thinking that God shalt smite them dead or, to put it in our terms, 'a greasespot by midnight'? I know myself, in moving away from the religious to the skeptical side, that I have had plenty of thoughts of 'uh ohh, what if God gets angry', yet I worked it out and overcame that intimidation in comparing that POV which I was leaving to the one I hold now. And I realize that this was the same kind of fear that I hear about TWIers go thru when they decide to split TWI; that "God is gonna make you a greasespot by midnight if you leave God's Ministry!"
But, staying on topic, do most of the people who have left TWI really go thru that 'hell' of which he/she speaks? Those that do were usually the ones who took TWI way too seriously, yet not unlike the fundy example I provided. "Very few can do it on their own without having a relapse." ... Right! Sure. Ok, if that were true, taking into account the numbers of all those that come here, AND are active here (which would be necessary for full support group like benefits), and comparing them to the numbers of all those who took an active part in TWI, even in just the past 10-15 years (never mind the previous 25 years), ... sorry, but the numbers just don't add up. Know what that tells you? That there have been plenty of those who have not gone thru the 'halfway house' like situation of Greasespot, or even if you include all the spinoffs, after leaving TWI. They had to deal with whatever experiences, hurtful or otherwise, with either their family or friends. Or maybe with just themselves, chalking TWI up to Yet Another Life Experience to learn from.
Ie., it ain't a 'drug' of sorts (of the 'mind control' variety), but they (TWI) did try to instill that fear of leaving TWI to be sure. And yet there were more that left w/o needing a 'support group' than perhaps he/she realizes.
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Hope R.
After we left in 2000 - someone gave us some good advice about religion in general. He said that it's a good idea to take a year off from any formal type of fellowship - whether it be offshoots or churches. He said, if you want to do anything -- have a home fellowship and get to know each other and our kids without TWI's influence and interference. We never did the home fellowship thing before we left - so we weren't too motivated to do it afterwards.
After 6 months, I decided that if it looked like the Way, sounded like the Way, or felt like the Way - I'd have nothing to do with it.
I figured that anyone who only got their information about God and the bible from one source only was much to narrow minded for my liking. Whether or not the offshoot was pro-TWI or anti-TWI - they all based their doctrine on what they'd learned from TWI, either to laud it or debunk it - it all contained the same teachings.
I think that sooner or later, even with the best of intentions, that these offshoots will end just like TWI and try to control the people who support them. I hope I'm wrong -- time will tell.
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skyrider
First of all.....twi is an OFFSHOOT of BG Leonard's ministry. In 1953, after sitting thru Rev. Leonard's holy spirit class TWICE.....wierwille rushed back to Ohio and ran a carbon-copy of the class, without any syllabus or materials, three months later. In Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, the accounts are vivid and illustrate that young vpw was thrilled by the work of Leonard.....and later, devoured the works of Stiles, Bullinger, and others.
Secondly, here is a definition of offshoot....n. anything that branches off, or derives from a main source; specif., a shoot or stem growing laterally from the main stem of a plant.
I agree, Hope.....if the "roads and highways" all traveled back to OFFSHOOT CENTRAL HEADQUARTERS, then it mattered little if the terminology, or definitions, were identical to twi. What mattered was 1) the OUTFLOW SHIPPING OF TEACHING TAPES to stage an appearance of central authority..... and, 2) the INHOUSE STRUCTURE OF RECOGNIZED LEADERSHIP to stage a dominant/recessive relationship..... and 3) the BENEVOLENT APPEARANCE OF GODLINESS to stage a centralization to receive MONEY.
I tend to think that the whole way tree structure was flawed from the beginning. Even the wierwillian structure, the way tree, that was on its logo and painted on the OSC building..... is a conceptualized error. Wierwille conceived its tree-structue....and Townsend later taught The Way Tree class.
Why didn't wierwille structure twi in line with the scriptures??? in line with the One Body???..... in line with eyes, ears, feet, members in particular??? Could it be that a true biblical analogy of Christ as the head was too much to mask??? a way tree fit with veepee's rural upbringing and agendas???
And still today...."offshoots" fit with the wierwillian doctrine.
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George Aar
I think we need to look at why we got involved with WayWorld in the first place to understand the lure of the offshoots.
What was it about Wierwillism that attracted us?I think the primary draw, as with most any religion, was comfort (false comfort IMHO, but we'll leave that be for now). Then there was the sense of purpose. This took awhile to instill in us, but after we got a taste of the heady notion that we had a "mission from God", well, we were off and running. Then add to that the equally intoxicating concept that we knew things that the ordinary mortal just simply had no handle on whatsoever. Now we were thoroughly (or is that "throughly") primed to dedicate our very lives to some pretty lame B.S.
So what happens when we finally leave that all behind? It's sort of tough to look back and say "Well, that was a helluva waste of time" - even if that is the truth. So we go looking for a slightly different thumb to suck, or skirt to hide behind. And we find it in the offshoots. Different enough to make us believe that the bad has been rooted out, but familiar enough so as to reinforce the basic tenets that we're afraid to leave behind.
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oldiesman
The offshoots in their own way have tried to keep the baby, and throw out the bathwater.
VPW learned great things from B.G. Leonard. He kept what he believed was truth, but abandoned what he thought was error.
Same deal with the offshoots.
There were many great teachings and loving traditions of true Christianity in TWI, and hopefully those things will remain.
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johniam
I think the offshoots are proof that there was genuine substance in what was taught in TWI. Like Hope said time will tell, but CES is almost 18 yrs old and several others aren't far behind.
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diazbro
Aren't there some other threads going on about offshoots ? Guess its a popular topic these days. Anyway. In my view the offshoots/splinters server primarily as decompression chambers for those seeking a return to a conventional life. I was living in an offshoot-rich area for a while and I saw a lot of turnover in that people would leave the Way, pick an offshoot, hang out for a while, and then move on - perhaps to another offshot or maybe nothing at all.
Not everyone who leaves TWI goes to offshoots. Some left before there were offshoots so its not like they would want to recreate that dysfunctional life that they left for something better. Just as there were varying degrees of devotion to the Way,VPW, ad LCM there are varying degrees of devotion to the offshoots.
I don't view the exsitence of offshoots as evidence that there is "truth" there anymore than it existed within TWI. I mean seems to me lots of people want to continue the good feelings and attitudes they had in TWI without the major drama and trama they were enduring. So it appears to be more like a preservation thing more than anything else.
And I really don't see major differences between them.
One offshoot does't teach the "law of believing" another doesn't teach "four crucified" yet another teaches "personal prophecy" but I've seen no major departures from Way theology and certainly the home fellowship concept. I see this more of an attachment to "the way we were" as opposed to some evidence that TWI was mostly "right on" except for the legalism (there is also the plagiarism).
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Outin88!
Diazbro said;
I agree. It worked for my wife and I.
While in TWI they taught us that only they had the complete truth of God's word "as it hadn't been known since the 1st century".
They also taught us that Churches were primarily a bad place because churches taught JC is God and the dead are alive etc.
I think it was Martindale that said something like, and I'm paraphrasing here "Denomiational churches are swamp breeding grounds for devil spirits" or some such nonsense.
So when my wife and I left TWI we felt at that time the only option was CES, and at that time it was the only offshoot that we were aware of.
So I believe many people who leave TWI and still want to fellowship with christians tend to go where they're comfortable. Offshoots can be their "comfort zone". But depending on the offshoot this isn't necessaily a bad thing, at least for the short term.
It can be a half-way house to de-way-brain.
As for me and my wife weve grown past the ignorant thinking that only TWI or those previously involved are the only one's that know the word accurately.
That doesn't mean I'd completely throw out everything offshoots have to offer. But I no longer believe that TWI or offshoots have all the answers either.
I believe if your only eating off the plate of one minister or oraganization, your not getting a balanced diet, spiritually speaking.
I also beleive that not all offshoots are a carbon copy of TWI. I think it's wrong to label them all this way based on my experiences with the one's I've checked out.
I have seen some offshoots or those involved at the leadership level get involved with churches, go to an acreditted college and earn degree's in Bible studies, and reachout out to other christian groups that were not part of TWI to learn, at least to some degree.
Oldiesman said;
For some offshoots I would agree.
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Ham
As viciously as Loy attacked the offshoots, you'd think that they must have had something right.
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Oakspear
I can see why some people, in some circumstances, would go to an offshoot, or an informal ex-Way fellowship.
If, when you made the decision to leave, you were convinced that the core doctrine was sound, but the practice was flawed, then an offshoot, especially one that retained much of the old ways, would seem very comforting.
In the late eighties whole limbs were being marked and avoided and the staff fired. Often the loyalty (after God) and familiarity was not to the central HQ, but to the local people who cared about you and loved you on a daily basis.
In the face of such upheaval, it makes perfect sense to try and maintain some order, some continuity.
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WhiteDove
Well I swore that I was not going to get sucked in to your thread Mrs. Pickles but then I felt sorry for you in your quest for more crap. I know that wolf dog is working overtime to produce but he needs a rest so... I guesss I should do my part.
:D--> 
I stay in touch with people from many "offshoots" (I really hate that term) most I don't find to be like the way at all.
I did not go through hell or hit bottom before leaving. Rather it was a logical biblical choice for thinking people. Really the hell started after I left.
I have seen no attempt to control anyone in the several I keep in touch with. Quite the opposite realy there seems to be a lack of direction at times due to not wanting to fall into that rut again.
People attend these groups because they want Christian fellowship that is missing in churches. Many have tried churches after leaving the way but do not like the menu of unscriptural doctrine. and if you survive long enough by laying low and being some fake person eventually when they find out (and they do ) that you dont hold their views just like in the way you are quickly put on the shelf for any leadership roles. That leaves two choices do nothing which many are content to do or be involved in some way with one of these groups.
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diazbro
White Dove said:
I did not go through hell or hit bottom before leaving. Rather it was a logical biblical choice for thinking people. Really the hell started after I left.
>>
Which might be the reason that people like the offshoots so much. Its a safe place for them while they sort it all out.
Post Way living brings with it lots of new issues and splinters
offer a nice support system to make the adjustment. Obviously some people consider the splinters to be more than that.
White Dove said:
>>
People attend these groups because they want Christian fellowship that is missing in churches. Many have tried churches after leaving the way but do not like the menu of unscriptural doctrine.
Its very rare , at least in my experience, that people leaving TWI go directly to mainstream churches first. The Way training to consider mainstream religion as evil is quite strong. Most new Wayfers tend to either avoid services of any type or ,more commonly, spend some time with one or more splinters. But thats just in the areas I've lived in.
In terms of "unscriptural doctrines" well thats just using the Way teachings to judge other organizations. In my time since leaving TWI I have found many Way practices and teachings to be "unscriptural". Personally I have never observed any of the offshoots to be free of strong and obvious Way influence. Over time it has diminished since many have made a conscious effort to stop using various way-cliches but lots of the same patterns and expectations are there.
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vickles
Thanks you all for all of your input.
I can understand why some wouldn't want to check out churches because of what we believed when we were in twi. I couldn't go into church either when I first got out. Now, I can and actually enjoy it. I'm surprised on how much of the bible they actually do know.
Mind you, I still can't get into going every sunday. And if someone asked me for a comittment they would most likely not see me there anymore. But this one certain church has shown me nothing but kindness and sharing and I've been going there off and on for three years.
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WhiteDove
I'd have to disagree with you there it is using the Bible,scripture,to decide if a church doctrine is true or false. Just like in math 2+2=4 if someone tells you that it equals 7 I can use math to see if that is true or false. If it is false then it is false it has nothing to do with judgement of anyone. Truth is truth error is error. And yes I agree that same test holds true for Way teachings and I would agree many have been found not to have passed the test.
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vickles
my friend dove,
I just don't think everything is so black and white.
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ex10
white dove,
Miss vickles took the words right out of my mouth. It's not so black and white.
We've had this conversation about churches before. The main problem I have with "offshoots" and that I have with TWI, is the arrogance. You know, the "I know more of 'the truth' than you do, so I'm not going to fellowship with you" attitude.
The only offshoot I know anything about, (CES)seems to have gotten over that, and even goes out of its way to network with many other christian groups.
So maybe I'm a wierdo, because I went straight from TWI to church. But I don't think so, since many of my particular ex-way friends did the same thing. And many are still there. In fact, I've been involved in church far longer that I was ever in TWI. And I have friends and family members that can say the same thing.
They don't hang around here much though. Maybe it's just the nature of this place, that those who haven't gotten involved in something else, whether it's a church, offshoot group, or do their own thing, tend to hang out here? Just a thought.....This cafe seems to be a nice little haven for us TWI fugitives.
;)-->
And Miss vick, I feel the same way you do about going to church every Sunday. I go when I want to be there. I'm way over attending meetings out of guilt or obligation. I guess that's one positive thing that came out of TWI for me. I've met my lifetime meeting quota.
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Ham
Well, only one thing I could say: If you have TWI in one corner, offshoot in the other- TWI probably wouldn't last three seconds after the bell rung..
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